Trying to avoid exploits on new playthroughs (specifically base building)

[billywhiz10]

TL;DR please list all known ways of base building that make your base impossible for zombies to reach and other exploits that make the game far too easy.

 

I'm trying to avoid all possible exploits or things that make the game too easy. I.e. I don't want to do stuff such as use ladders and hatches on my base as I think it ruins the fun since zombies can't interact with them properly yet. E.g. I built a base which had a ground floor and then ladders/hatches going both up to new floors and underground and I found myself completely safe even on horde nights if I was above/below these hatches. What other base-building strategies make them game ridiculously easy, and by this I specifically mean stuff like hatches that lead underground and things that potentially mess with the zombies AI. Also, I know that making wooden slabs or w/e to be sold at traders was an exploit such that you could get an insane amount of money from traders, anything similar I would also like to avoid. Thanks.

[Pico]

Sooo.... you're asking for exploits that you don't already know about... so that you can avoid them... yeah. Credibile?

Staying ignorant of the exploits might be the better answer.

 

The only real base exploits I know are to do with elevation. Get well above or below the Z's and you're fine (currently, mostly).

 

Have your base entranceway distant from the base itself, and in some way walled off or protected.

 

Gravity eventually is your enemy if your base is above ground. I've taken to progressively thickening my base walls, until eventually the base consists of a very thick column, without any hollow core.

[Viktoriusiii]

depending on what you call "exploits" here are a few:

 

-elevation (high above ground lvl; near bedrock)

-spiked trenches

-super deep trenches

-blade trap (op)

-elevation-pt2 (closing off the entrance on a flat plane and simply letting the zombies run above you OR building on stilz letting them run below u)

-anything that has too much effort put into it (at a certain point even just electric fence and gunturrets will stop most hordes...)

[billywhiz10]

depending on what you call "exploits" here are a few:

 

-elevation (high above ground lvl; near bedrock)

-spiked trenches

-super deep trenches

-blade trap (op)

-elevation-pt2 (closing off the entrance on a flat plane and simply letting the zombies run above you OR building on stilz letting them run below u)

-anything that has too much effort put into it (at a certain point even just electric fence and gunturrets will stop most hordes...)

 

The last base I built had deep spike trenches AND the elevation I mentioned so I won't be doing those. My idea this time around was going to be build into the side of a mountain almost like a vault from fallout but I'm guessing this would also be really easy?

[billywhiz10]

Sooo.... you're asking for exploits that you don't already know about... so that you can avoid them... yeah. Credibile?

Staying ignorant of the exploits might be the better answer.

 

The only real base exploits I know are to do with elevation. Get well above or below the Z's and you're fine (currently, mostly).

 

Have your base entranceway distant from the base itself, and in some way walled off or protected.

 

Gravity eventually is your enemy if your base is above ground. I've taken to progressively thickening my base walls, until eventually the base consists of a very thick column, without any hollow core.

 

Is it really unheard of to find people who want to avoid making games too easy? I'd agree with the ignorance if not for the possibility that I might spend 50 hours in a save only to find out I've accidentally made a base that zombie AI goes full retard when attacking which would be no bueno.

[Hazeree]

I would not call using items for their original intent an 'exploit'. Blade traps, spikes, and digging deep pits are not 'easy', they are smart as they function exactly as intended.

 

A craptastic wooden hatch being impenetrable on the other hand because zombies are not programmed to 'punch down' is an exploit.

 

So in that sense, here are two more AI weaknesses:

 

1. Drawbridges. If you have a drawbridge over a shallow chasm with a way back up to the lip of the drawbridge, the AI fails. If the bridge is up, then the AI attracts the zombies to the lip of where the drawbridge ends if is down, and they keep falling off the edge. If they can climb back up (say make the pit 3 deep and a nice ramp on either side to get back up), then you can sit there for hours watching zombies play like kids on a slide: Fall off the edge, walk around and back up to lip, fall of edge, repeat endlessly. As an exploit, you can put spikes at the edges of that ramp and the zeds happily impale themselves without ever touching the side of your base. Simply go outside once a day and clean off the screamer corpses. I run a dozen forges without a care in the world all because of drawbridges and AI.

 

2. The new 'minimalist' bloodmoon table design. If you make a 'table' with just a central leg and outhang some wooden plates, the zombies will gather around and punch air all day long. Apparently, having a plate one block up above ground is just the right height for zeds to perpetually miss hitting it. This only works in vanilla. Any modded game where they make the zed model size variable, this exploit doesn't work, but the vanilla zeds cannot touch this specific height.

[Viktoriusiii]

The last base I built had deep spike trenches AND the elevation I mentioned so I won't be doing those. My idea this time around was going to be build into the side of a mountain almost like a vault from fallout but I'm guessing this would also be really easy?

 

Well depends. Often zombies dont know how to get to you and just start swinging at the mountainside.

 

Maybe you could build in a cliff (like the canyon in navazgane) and make a huge platform in front of it... that would be my only thought.

Because ive done that falloutshelter thing... and the zombies just have no idea what to do and after a hordenight everything looks like 100 mines exploded around your entrance.

Sadly...

BUT with A17 AI improvements, this SHOULD be better now!

[RestInPieces]

Sooo.... you're asking for exploits that you don't already know about... so that you can avoid them... yeah. Credibile?

Staying ignorant of the exploits might be the better answer.

 

It's actually a very credible question. But unfortunately one that shouldn't have to be made for a game that is tagged as survival.

[Guest]

You probably know this already, but just in case: A17 will make changes to the zombie AI/pathfinding, so a lot of exploits will become obsolete, and new ones will probably take their place. So if you're going to invest 50+ hours like you said, you might want to hold off until A17 becomes available.

 

To the topic at hand: one exploit that I currently use is having a moat with spike traps in front of my door, deep enough so that the zombies can't attack the door unless they stand on the corpses of their predecessors. I use elevated walkways around my base to get a good shot at the zombies below, and kite them around to prevent them from damaging one spot too much.

 

It still feels cheesy, but at least it does involve actively shooting at the zombies. I currently have a hard time finding strategies that don't involve some kind of AI/pathing exploit. Letting the zombies attack your doors directly means you basically have to sit behind it with a repair tool all night (because they will all attack that door). Or have all your traps/turrets in front of that door to shred everything that steps in front, but then you can forget about looting corpses because they destroy each other on drop, and you'll be hammering your traps with the repair tool instead of your door.

 

I'd try surviving outside with a good set of weapons and some buffs. But with the current wonky hitboxes/animations and frequent stutter on horde nights, it feels like you're fighting glitches rather than zombies.

 

I'm really hoping A17 will finally make the zombies threatening without encouraging cheesy strats.

[Scyris]

If you want a challenge, why not just be out in the open on horde nights? I've done it with some barbed wire fences around me to slow them down a bit. other than that I had no cover or anything to hide behind. I usually built my bases underground usuallt -20 to -30 below surface in random gen. On horde nights though I exit the base and go outside of it usually. I'm a lazy builder, I hate how long it takes to build a base above ground, so in A16 i'd rather just live in a hole, saves alot of time.

[RestInPieces]

If you want a challenge, why not just be out in the open on horde nights? I've done it with some barbed wire fences around me to slow them down a bit. other than that I had no cover or anything to hide behind. I usually built my bases underground usuallt -20 to -30 below surface in random gen. On horde nights though I exit the base and go outside of it usually. I'm a lazy builder, I hate how long it takes to build a base above ground, so in A16 i'd rather just live in a hole, saves alot of time.

 

I understand your point and you are not wrong in saying this for the time being, but people suggesting for all these years that someone purposely endangers himself as a solution, in order to "get challenged" in a survival game goes against everything a survival game is about. What I am saying is that it's high time for at least the large parts of the game that completely cancel out the concept of survival, to be fixed. Here's to hoping that the new attribute system will make us care more about surviving and that the underground will be addressed soon.

[Viktoriusiii]

I 100% agree with you.

And I've said this since A10 i think... when i first started to feel bored no matter the difficulty...

I've told everyone all the exploits... how breaking into houses was way too easy and all that stuff...

And I always got the answer "just dont do it the easy way!"

 

Super frustrating!

[Roland]

I agree with you to a point but if something is a blatant exploit it is easy for me to just not do it. That’s a bit different than leaving holes in your defenses on purpose for greater challenge.

 

For example, I don’t nerdpole and I don’t build sky bases or bedrock bases and I don’t dupe. And I don’t feel as though I’m sandbagging myself or messing with the survival aspect by refusing to do those things. I am glad that digging zombies and zombies that hit random nearby blocks are being added as now I’ll be able to extend my play space.

[Viktoriusiii]

I agree with you to a point but if something is a blatant exploit it is easy for me to just not do it. That’s a bit different than leaving holes in your defenses on purpose for greater challenge.

 

For example, I don’t nerdpole and I don’t build sky bases or bedrock bases and I don’t dupe. And I don’t feel as though I’m sandbagging myself or messing with the survival aspect by refusing to do those things. I am glad that digging zombies and zombies that hit random nearby blocks are being added as now I’ll be able to extend my play space.

 

 

The problem is:

what makes an exploit an exploit?

Is an exploit that you can be safe underground?

because its a voxel game... underground is part of the game

Is an exploit that you can sell macheteblades and concrete in such high quantities that after day 10 you have LITERALLY 200.000 dukes?

Traders are meant to buy stuff... so its just a balanceact... but exploit?

 

I dont want to limit myself WHERE i can build... I dont want to limit myself in what i buy/sell... i dont want to limit myself in the way i line up my defenses. Those are key features of the game that flip every other aspect on its head.

Exploits (especially in progression heavy games) should ALWAYS be fixed as soon as possible. Sometimes everything it would take are some tweaked numbers (traders not buying concrete more then 100 at a time or lowering the prices for these mass production items)

but they are beeing ignored under the umbrella of "its early alpha"

THIS is what makes me so sad...

yes the AI thing was really over due... but at least there was a reason for it (needed a completly new teammember)

but for easy things like damage output/traderprices or ressourcegain... those are things that could be fixed by tweaking just a few numbers. But aren't... especially the concrete/macheteblade thing kinda ruined A15&A16 for me, since I could always buy the whole trader if i wanted... I have near perfect weapons on day 21, because i buy a sniper for 30k, take one part and sell it for 5-7k... because money isnt an issue... at all.

Is that an exploit? IS that something that should be fixed, even if 90+% of the playerbase dont know it? Or should I limit myself because its an early access...

[badger2013]

I understand your point and you are not wrong in saying this for the time being, but people suggesting for all these years that someone purposely endangers himself as a solution, in order to "get challenged" in a survival game goes against everything a survival game is about. What I am saying is that it's high time for at least the large parts of the game that completely cancel out the concept of survival, to be fixed. Here's to hoping that the new attribute system will make us care more about surviving and that the underground will be addressed soon.

 

I agree, this is one of the biggest reasons I've taken a long break from the game, but I'm also optimistic that A17 will at least start to address these issues. For those who want more of a sandbox environment, settings or modding should still allow for that.

[Roland]

The problem is:

what makes an exploit an exploit?

Is an exploit that you can be safe underground?

because its a voxel game... underground is part of the game

Is an exploit that you can sell macheteblades and concrete in such high quantities that after day 10 you have LITERALLY 200.000 dukes?

Traders are meant to buy stuff... so its just a balanceact... but exploit?

 

I dont want to limit myself WHERE i can build... I dont want to limit myself in what i buy/sell... i dont want to limit myself in the way i line up my defenses. Those are key features of the game that flip every other aspect on its head.

Exploits (especially in progression heavy games) should ALWAYS be fixed as soon as possible. Sometimes everything it would take are some tweaked numbers (traders not buying concrete more then 100 at a time or lowering the prices for these mass production items)

but they are beeing ignored under the umbrella of "its early alpha"

THIS is what makes me so sad...

yes the AI thing was really over due... but at least there was a reason for it (needed a completly new teammember)

but for easy things like damage output/traderprices or ressourcegain... those are things that could be fixed by tweaking just a few numbers. But aren't... especially the concrete/macheteblade thing kinda ruined A15&A16 for me, since I could always buy the whole trader if i wanted... I have near perfect weapons on day 21, because i buy a sniper for 30k, take one part and sell it for 5-7k... because money isnt an issue... at all.

Is that an exploit? IS that something that should be fixed, even if 90+% of the playerbase dont know it? Or should I limit myself because its an early access...

 

Like many other things it is very subjective. As of A16 I personally believe that digging is an exploit because you can simply go 3-5 blocks under and be perfectly safe. No effort for 100% win = exploit in my book. Digging all the way to bedrock takes more effort so perhaps less of an exploit but still unbalanced in the area of risk vs reward.

 

Selling things to merchants is a matter of balancing prices and they haven't really worked on that very much. Some of what you are calling an exploit is simply balancing and polishing that need to wait until all features are in so they don't have to rework it all after they add something that requires rebalancing. So I disagree that many of the things you are talking about must be done ASAP unless by ASAP you really do emphasize "possible" and then that means not until beta because that will be the soonest possible phase to take on all of the balancing issues.

 

You seem to be treating this as though it was a finished game and it isn't and it doesn't matter how easy it might be to raise some prices here and lower some sell values there because work is work and to have to redo it thanks to new features in A18 and then in A19 (if there is one) is just silly waste.

 

The best thing to do if you can't stomach the current status is either wait for the gold release or modify the xmls to do your own balancing.

[themirror]

the cage... built on 50 pillar collums, the Z's and you can't reach the other side but you can hit them (and they hit you)