[WIP] True Survival SDX

[Ozzland]

I prefer to keep the npc's at early game they are a god send and it seems strange that I am the only survivor if they are removed.

Name is 7d2d not sole survivor.

[xyth]

I don't mind them but I agree they should be as rare as wrenches...or bears.

[Xamllew]

I use NPCs as cheap help in zombie fights (when they actually fight) but otherwise they're mostly pointless and unfinished. I do love the idea of bringing a few into my base and using them as sentries on the walls, sadly their guns are so loud that I dont think I'll bother.

 

Maybe some day we'll get to hire them at traders and have to keep them fed and paid to stay around. I can dream.

[Tetrameth]

@Tetrameth-

I think you are mistaking this for Val mod. I expect a player starting my Mod to have at lest a few 100 hours in vanilla. This is not a Mod you start with this is the one you finish on. When I make something more challenging or give more responsibility to the player I don't then go behind my self and give them a free loop hole to jump through. If even as a new player, if you cannot tell that punching stone with your hands is not a good idea(with the blood on the screen and loosing health point) then you were not going to make it very far in this mod anyway. This is exactly why I resist any talk of making the mod easier. First you want a free set of clothes on start then you want a weapon then you want a tool OMG should I give you a free starter house or a full medical kit? Come on! This is a hardcore Mod stop trying to make it Sesame Street with Care bares. When you play this you should be cursing me out not congratulating me on making a well rounded mod. I want rage quitters not people on picnics with zombies.

 

NO MORE CARE BARE SLIDING! THIS IS THE HARDCORE MOD FOR 7D2D AND I WILL NOT LET IT SLIDE IN TO MEDIOCRITY ANYMORE.

 

The SDX Version of the Mod is already the easiest version so far. This is changing, I am fixing it. Its far to easy as it plays right now. A$$ Clinching is coming back.

 

@Spider, Don't get me wrong, your mod is not insanely hard, but its the best one that's out there. The first thing I do in your mod is throw away the free clothing anyway, I had nothing to do with asking for any such gift. IMO, the gift of 600 quality clothing is a crazy OP free gift for the start of the game, and a complete juxtaposition for the said difficulty of this mod.

 

I only ever play 7dtd as 'dead is dead'. In the current game I'm playing, I'm level 48, 70 odd days in and no deaths...

 

Getting a stone axe at the start of the game is by no means a difficult task, and its certainly not a task that I would measure the difficulty of your game by.

 

 

p.s. i have clocked close to 2500 hours in the game so far, so def not a 'new player'

[Jeoshua]

Getting a stone axe at the start of the game is by no means a difficult task, and its certainly not a task that I would measure the difficulty of your game by.

 

On the contrary, I think the Stone Axe, it's stats, and the situation surrounding it is the perfect representation of how this mod differs from vanilla.

 

Consider: In Vanilla, you punch down some trees and boulders and rip up some grass to craft a Stone Axe. The game then rewards you for it. You can use this axe to decimate trees and boulders, to get hundreds of units of said resources. They are easy to craft, very capable tools, and many players use them until end-game. With it, you can upgrade anything to anything else, from wood to concrete to steel, and repair any block provided the resources to do so. All with something that the game tells you to craft day one. And it doesn't really hurt Zombies.

 

In TS: The game gives you the quest to make a Stone Axe, but to do so you must find a few resources that you may not be able to get with your bare hands. The game gives you a bit of a reward, but not enough to really matter. Once crafted, it will break shortly after you begin using it. You craft another one, and quickly become more skilled at making them until they stop breaking so quickly. You can use it to slowly cut down trees and chip a few rocks off a boulder, but little else. You cannot upgrade anything with it, and it doesn't work well against Zombies. As soon as one is able, it is thrown away and never considered seriously except in a pinch, ever again.

 

Perfect microcosm of what this mod is about.

 

That being said, I would love to see the Stone Axe be given a bit more damage vs zombies. It's an axe. If it's not good for fighting, it's not good for anything.

[habibo]

Hey thanks for all the hard work so i started as the burglar class and got the lockpicks and the lock pick gun found a locked door and could not get the gun to work i had both items i tried right clicking and left clicking like placing items or using wrenches etc. neither seemed to do anything Also i read that there was a way to fix the lockpick file so it has an icon instead of being a blank space and was just a typo where would i need to go and what to type to fix that one?

[Jeoshua]

Hey thanks for all the hard work so i started as the burglar class and got the lockpicks and the lock pick gun found a locked door and could not get the gun to work i had both items i tried right clicking and left clicking like placing items or using wrenches etc. neither seemed to do anything Also i read that there was a way to fix the lockpick file so it has an icon instead of being a blank space and was just a typo where would i need to go and what to type to fix that one?

 

The "Lockpick" is technically an Upgrade Tool that can upgrade some items to an unlocked version of themselves. It doesn't do doors, as each one of them is currently of type DoorSecure, meaning upgrading a door to any other version of that class would keep it locked, anyways. I've personally tried modifying the files to make the top tier of doors that the player cannot craft upgrade to something of type "Door", but in practice if the door is not boarded up secure as possible the Lockpick does not work, so I would find myself nailing scrap Iron on a door so it could be picked. Not ideal.

 

But that does give me something to go on the list of things I'll be looking into, to see if there is a better way through editing the code instead of using the XML mechanics for these kind of creative uses.

 

It does work for Munitions Crates, Safes, and Military Vehicles, tho.

 

That being said, if you rename Mods/SDX/ItemIcons/Lockpick.png to LockPick.png, that will fix the icon. The capitalization is wrong, and the game's file loader is case sensitive.

[owl79]

I'd like to throw in my 2 cents on the difficulty: I think this SDX version has garnered more interest not only cause it's new, but also cause it's more accessible for players that are newer to this mod (like me - to be clear, I've sunken hundreds of hours into 7DTD and other mods already). Personally, I like feeling really challenged, and *barely* prevailing, but definitely do not like dying over and over again. This mod currently hits that sweet spot for me in many ways, other things I find unfair/too hard (like the small spiders often clipping into the ground so I don't even have a chance to see them, and the 7-day-horde completely demolishing your base every time).

 

Regarding NPCs, I don't think you really have to worry about players abusing them, simply cause they are SO tedious to manage, and their weapons break quickly/ they run out of ammo. I only ran towards them for help in the beginning, but getting a few of them to actually follow was something I tried once and never again. Also, their guns tend to call in screamers, which is a big downside especially at the start.

[Tetrameth]

Yes, one of the the best things about this mod is the amount of attention and time spent in balancing out the char progression. Vanilla is grossly imbalanced, and for the stage of development it is at, I wouldn't really expect much more. I think pretty much everyone knows that once this game goes gold, its the mods that are going to carry it through the years beyond.

 

Speaking from a multiplayer perspective, many of the classes enable players to work together really well as a team, and ultimately, this creates a real sense of purpose that uniquely diversifies each char, this is really cool. There is much room to trim some fat in this regard though.

 

From a single player perspective, the mod is a little more of an uphill slog in regards to needing to diversify yourself, to spread across the most important tasks. It makes it harder to specialize, which makes the starter pack choice even more important.

 

Keep up the good work !

[xyth]

Thanks for all the input folks, its really helpful. Lots of grunt work is happening now to ready the mod for A16 as well as improve the current gameplay. I will let Spider post about all the changes, but I think you are going to like it. I also like the slow, steady progression in this mod. I work on it more than play lately, but I'm at L20 and still using a stone axe. Zero deaths though, as I also like to play dead is dead.

[xFORCERx]

Just wanted to start a new discussion if possible.

 

What are your thoughts on existing quests?

Overall, quests are more like tutorials, as they show you a way of doing things and then rewarding you. True survival's quests are a bit better than vanilla, but still not quite there yet

 

What I am proposing is this:

 

- Preplanning for a new way of doing quests. The current way of changing them is through .xml files. With Jeoshua around, we can do .dll hacking.

- Imagination. Quests are rather simple and are actually series of tutorials with reward at the end. I want to see your side of imagination when it comes to creating a whole better quest system. For example, faction storyline, main storyline - > tasks / quests

- When the main system is in place, the actual tasks / quests are now underway. Share your best quests from your games. Think of an adventure you would want to go on in a 7 days to die world.

- Add features - NPCs, Bandits, Zombies, Legendary loot, Quest notes, Mystery solving, Puzzles

 

* Make the world more alive. Make it Skyrim + Zelda + Witcher 3 (alive as it can get in an Apocalypse)

* Immersion and Roleplay

 

 

Add credits for everyone's hard work. Let's do this one for our own pleasure and enjoyment.

 

 

P.S. If you think this could be a large discussion, make a new thread about it.

 

I really hope you guys are going to support this idea. If not, well, everyone has an opinion and a taste.

[Vormithrax]

What is the requirement to build a stone or iron hoe? I cannot find any skill that unlocks them and the profession info doesn't mention them as exclusive that i can see. I'm trying to get a garden started but cant figure out how to unlock either of those recipes in SDX.

[Tetrameth]

Just wanted to start a new discussion if possible.

 

What are your thoughts on existing quests?

Overall, quests are more like tutorials, as they show you a way of doing things and then rewarding you. True survival's quests are a bit better than vanilla, but still not quite there yet

 

What I am proposing is this:

 

- Preplanning for a new way of doing quests. The current way of changing them is through .xml files. With Jeoshua around, we can do .dll hacking.

- Imagination. Quests are rather simple and are actually series of tutorials with reward at the end. I want to see your side of imagination when it comes to creating a whole better quest system. For example, faction storyline, main storyline - > tasks / quests

- When the main system is in place, the actual tasks / quests are now underway. Share your best quests from your games. Think of an adventure you would want to go on in a 7 days to die world.

- Add features - NPCs, Bandits, Zombies, Legendary loot, Quest notes, Mystery solving, Puzzles

 

* Make the world more alive. Make it Skyrim + Zelda + Witcher 3 (alive as it can get in an Apocalypse)

* Immersion and Roleplay

 

 

Add credits for everyone's hard work. Let's do this one for our own pleasure and enjoyment.

 

 

P.S. If you think this could be a large discussion, make a new thread about it.

 

I really hope you guys are going to support this idea. If not, well, everyone has an opinion and a taste.

 

Interesting you mention this, I was contemplating if quests could be used in a way to alleviate stifling and rather stupid mechanics, for example 'hit a concrete block 10 thousand times with a knife to achieve a high level of hunting skill'

 

Perhaps by implementing something like a player being able to craft his own quests of a sort, these quests could tie together the whole 'quest objective/reward' thing much closer than the current system, and the player could tailor it themselves to a degree with the ability to craft them using inexpensive materials.

 

ie: player wants to raise hunting skill, so they set themselves a goal to do so by crafting [using some trivial items like paper etc] a quest to kill say, 10 deer, or whatever...

 

Expanding on this idea could be a way to tailor your chars progression by doing tasks that make more sense... rather than stab a concrete block 10 thousand times...

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

What is the requirement to build a stone or iron hoe? I cannot find any skill that unlocks them and the profession info doesn't mention them as exclusive that i can see. I'm trying to get a garden started but cant figure out how to unlock either of those recipes in SDX.

 

Farmer can craft a stone hoe from the get-go, but needs to unlock 'seed nursery' for the iron hoe

[Jeoshua]

* Make the world more alive. Make it Skyrim + Zelda + Witcher 3 (alive as it can get in an Apocalypse)

 

While I appreciate your zeal and faith in my skills, I think you may be going in a different direction, here. This game is more of a sandbox survival simulation, not a fantasy world with tons of backstory and such. The quests are meant to be more of a training exercise. There are a few functions in the quest system that aren't currently used, but I'm not sure how they could be used to make anything resembling a storyline. There is no branching, no randomness, just goals and rewards. I can modify some things, but a full rewrite and extension of the quests systems is a bit beyond what I am really ready for, here. I'm more about mechanics, not plot.

 

Over the next few betas, I'm sure TFP will add some more functionality to the quest system. But at this time the whole framework really doesn't support it.

[Jeoshua]

ie: player wants to raise hunting skill, so they set themselves a goal to do so by crafting [using some trivial items like paper etc] a quest to kill say, 10 deer, or whatever...

 

This does sound plausible. You could do something like this with the Research Desk, and a few recipes for various quests which give a reward commensurate to their type. It wouldn't require any hacks, either, just recipes and quests. I could provide support with some modifications to quest goals, refining of existing mechanics, or things like that.

 

It would have to be somewhat limited, of course. We wouldn't want people to be able to spam craft quests they can easily complete to power level things, and the goals should already involve actually training some skill, in general. The rewards could be something unobtainable by training or loot, like a recipe.

 

For example: A quest to hunt deer and render their hides to leather. The reward could be a recipe to craft Cowboy Hats and Boots.

[xFORCERx]

While I appreciate your zeal and faith in my skills, I think you may be going in a different direction, here. This game is more of a sandbox survival simulation, not a fantasy world with tons of backstory and such. The quests are meant to be more of a training exercise. There are a few functions in the quest system that aren't currently used, but I'm not sure how they could be used to make anything resembling a storyline. There is no branching, no randomness, just goals and rewards. I can modify some things, but a full rewrite and extension of the quests systems is a bit beyond what I am really ready for, here. I'm more about mechanics, not plot.

 

Over the next few betas, I'm sure TFP will add some more functionality to the quest system. But at this time the whole framework really doesn't support it.

 

I may have gone too far mentioning those fantasy games. I was in an adrenaline rush, sorry

 

What's wrong with factions? Those do fit in survival simulation.

 

We can have bandits bases. They are hostile to you until you do something for them. Then for the reward, you don't get a silly skill point but access to their base and a new home. You can then live there until zombies come and you all have to climb up those walls and start shooting. It's like playing with friends, but with AI. Single player can be so much more alive. You gotta mix some fun. This game isn't marketed for people who want to learn how to be good in a real apocalypse but to have some fun while doing it.

 

Main storyline may be a thing later on. TFP did mention they wanted a backstory to all this.

 

Side quests like NPCs telling you to help them. For example, you craft a very expensive radio which broadcasts at near frequencies, AKA AM. You hear someone yelling for help. You get a note someone needing a help and you get map marker. You go over there and zombies spawn which you have to kill to save that NPC. He is grateful for your help and he gives you whatever is in his chest. This can be done in small POIs or caves(if possible).

 

With all that in mind, isn't that both fun and simulation?

[Spider]

Mod Update-

 

Should Not Break Saves

 

Update to .dll for Client and xml/Icons for Server and Client

 

Decreased all Parts drops (Electric, Mechanical …)

 

Some materials cannot damage other materials now ex: Wood cannot damage Metal

 

The player will take damage when hitting hard objects with their hands

 

Rebalanced all Tools and Weapons block damage

 

Rebalanced all world blocks hit points

 

Made Claw hammer able to disassemble things. Claw Hammer works on Wood, Stone and Cloth surfaces

 

Wrench and Screw Driver Work on Metal and Cloth Surfaces

 

Compact Driver works on Metal, Cloth and Steel surfaces

 

Fixed Boots and Shoes scraping

 

Revamped Loot file (please give feedback)

 

Increased Power Swing Cool down and decreased bounce for block damage. (Made for fighting)

 

All limps, Splinted Legs and Broken Legs can be instantly cured by taking 3 Stimulants (Stage 1 Addiction)

 

Added the ability to eat snowballs. They give +1 Water and a stacking buff that last 3 min that lowers your CoreTemp by -3 with each snowball

 

Workstation Lag fixes-(we thought we had these included last time but they were not) Workstation lag is caused by constant refreshing of the recipe list. To help Jeoshua tinkered with how the recipe list refreshes. No longer will it refresh every time something smelts, crafts or burns and the recipe list will only refresh once 3 letters are typed in. To instantly refresh the list click anywhere in your backpack or tool belt. (Please let us know if this helps with lag)

 

New Poisons Systems!

 

Raised Poisonous animals higher off ground

 

Anti-Venom will cure these at any point

 

Each does -9 wellness total

 

Snake-

When stepped on does -15hp/-20 Stamina / Makes player Limp for 5min

Snake Poisoning Stage 1= last 30min -2 Stamina per 1sec/ 5% slower/+5 CoreTemp / -0.1 Wellness per 5min

Snake Poisoning Stage 2= last 60min -3 stamina per 1sec/ 15% slower / +15 Core Temp / -0.2 Wellness per 5min**GIVES** Pain Debuff (-1 stamina per 5sec/+10 Core Temp)requires Painkillers to remove

Snake Poisoning Stage 3=last 60min -5 stamina per 1sec/ 50% slower /+25 Core Temp / -0.5 Wellness per 5min**GIVES** Gash Debuff (-1 stamina per 3sec / -1 hp per 15sec / -25 Core Temp)requires Suter Kit to remove

 

Spider-

When stepped on-3hp

Spider Poisoning Stage 1= last 30min -1 water per 4sec/ 2% slower / +5 CoreTemp/ -0.1 Wellness per 5min

Spider Poisoning Stage 2=last 60min -1 water per 3sec / 5% slower / -25 Core Temp / -0.2 Wellness per 5min**GIVES**Rash (-1hp per 60sec)requires Healing Cream to remove

Spider Poisoning Stage 3= last 60min -1water per 3sec / 25% slower / -50 Core Temp / -0.5 Wellness per 5min **GIVES** Pain Debuff (-1 stamina per 5sec/+10 Core Temp)requires Painkillers to remove

 

Scorpion-

When stepped on -5hp

Scorpion Poisoning Stage 1= last 30min -2 stamina per 1sec / 8% slower / +10 Core Temp / -0.1 Wellness per 5min

Scorpion Poisoning Stage 2= last 60min -4 stamina per 1sec / 18% slower / +30 Core Temp / -0.2 Wellness per 5min **GIVES** Fever Debuff(last 2 hours +20 Core Temp)requires Wet Head buff to remove

Scorpion Poisoning Stage 3= last 60min -6 stamina per 1sec / 30% slower / +50 Core Temp / -0.5 Wellness per 5min **GIVES**Sever Fever Debuff(last 2 hours +35 Core Temp)requires eating snow to remove

 

Hornet-

When stung -15hp / -50 stamina

Hornet Poisoning Stage 1= last 30 min -2 stamina per 1sec / 3% slower / -30 Core Temp / -0.1 Wellness per 5min**GIVES**Oozing Puncture Wound(-20 Core Temp / -1hp per 60sec)requires Poultice to remove

Hornet Poisoning Stage 2= last 60min -3 stamina per 1sec / 8% slower / +20 Core Temp /-0.2 Wellness per 5min

Hornet Poisoning Stage 3= last 60min -5 stamina per 1 sec / 15% slower / +40 Core Temp / -0.5 Wellness per 5min**GIVES**Swelling Debuff(last 2 hours +35 Core Temp / 40% slower)requires Sanitizing Bandages to remove

 

And more stuff that I can’t remember right at this moment

[Spider]

@xFORCERx-

This is already been in the works for awhile but was put on hold because of the upcoming block/rwg over haul coming in A16. Some story lines and quest chains are already planed out. I will give you the elevator pitch.

 

There will be 2 main quest lines each profession has. The first will be what happened to the world and trying to get/make/help make/or protect someone making the Z Virus cure. The second will be the personal profession quest.(I am fashioning it like the old resident evil game where you did the same over all story line but from different perspectives crossing over the other players through out the game and later playing those parts from the other players side. If that makes since) So you will have a quest of how that Character (profession)helps(or fails terribly) at saving the world and a more personal quest line about what has happened to that particular person(profession). Also with tons of other side quest and learning quest.

 

And a faction quest line where doing good for one pisses the other off is doable with the current code somewhat. But making Entitys respond to it is not. You can just get different quest chains

 

@Tetrameth-

Farmers do start with Iron Hoe

[Vormithrax]

Thanks for the info on the Seed Nursery unlocking the Iron Hoe recipe.

 

Not sure if this is a mod issue or not but using the search function for the word 'Seed' or 'Nursery' in the skill list does not show the associated skill. You can manually find Seed Nursery skill on the Health/Fitness list but for some reason the search function wont show it.

 

In the Mod update notes above: The poison system- Spider stage 2 and 3 are labelled as Snake in the notes

[Spider]

@Vormithrax-

Got it thanks

 

 

 

 

Any ideas on how to stop nerd poling?

[xFORCERx]

@Vormithrax-

Got it thanks

 

 

 

 

Any ideas on how to stop nerd poling?

 

Ask Skippy

 

On a serious note

 

The most effective way of stopping nerd poling would be to somehow remove the ability to place a block below you when jumping. If that's possible then problem solved.

 

Jeoshua - Is there any code for "playerInAir" ? If so, then this could be implemented

[Vormithrax]

I mentioned these a couple days ago and hadn't seen a response:

 

Craft menu lists "Fermitation Barrel" which should be "Fermentation Barrel"

 

Kabar knife is giving hunting experience. Is this intentional? Seems like it should be giving bladed weapons skill instead since its described/intended as a combat weapon.

 

Day 14 and 21 horde nights on my current game (MP with a buddy via Lan) has experienced crushing lag as soon as the Burning Zombies show up. Everything runs smooth otherwise even if we let multiple screamers summon a huge horde of zombies but as soon as horde night starts and we get half a dozen burning zombies zipping around both our machines stutter to an unplayable crawl. I'm not sure if its their burning effects or their super-fast movement rate that might be causing it but after some testing it definitely seems to be these particular zombies triggering the problem. Anyone else seeing this?

[Jeoshua]

Jeoshua - Is there any code for "playerInAir" ? If so, then this could be implemented

 

Yes, that would be possible. It would stop people from doing the nerd pole. I'll look into it.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Jeoshua - Is there any code for "playerInAir" ? If so, then this could be implemented

 

Yes, that would be possible. It would stop people from doing the nerd pole. I'll look into it.

[Spider]

@Vormithrax-

Sorry i missed these I'll get them in the next 1

 

I havent had or herd of any problems with the burnt zombies flame particles or their speed causing lag. Were there any UMA zombies around by chance? With out more info its hard to say for sure what the problem is. Do you have your UMA textures turned all the way down?

[Xamllew]

Yes, that would be possible. It would stop people from doing the nerd pole. I'll look into it.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Yes, that would be possible. It would stop people from doing the nerd pole. I'll look into it.

 

I could see problems with not allowing people to place blocks under themselves, another idea you might consider is to disable block placement for about 0.25 seconds after jumping, if it's possible.