[WIP] True Survival SDX

[Jeoshua]

And before Jeo tells me its not that simple...

 

It's really not that simple. The damage already should be scaled by the armor you wear on your hands, but it's not due to the way armor even works in this game.

 

Maybe if there was a glove that protected you against 100% of damage, but then you're invincible in general.

 

A+ for effort on something that seems logical tho.

 

The only way to make the damage not work that I know works 100% is not be using fists, because the code doesn't fire then. I might actually add in something that just checks to see what kind of armor the player is wearing on their hands and then lessen the damage manually instead of relying on a semi-broken armor system, tho.

 

You have given me something to think about...

[Tetrameth]

I'm not asking you to rewrite anything Jeo, I have no grasp on how easy/hard something is to code in, so please don't assume I am 'expecting' you to change anything, I was just making a suggestion.

 

Your answers up to now have been great in explaining the limitations involved in modding.

[Jeoshua]

I'm not asking you to rewrite anything Jeo, I have no grasp on how easy/hard something is to code in, so please don't assume I am 'expecting' you to change anything, I was just making a suggestion.

 

Your answers up to now have been great in explaining the limitations involved in modding.

 

No skin off my back reguardless Tetrameth. Don't get me wrong. Firm hand doesn't mean I'm mad, just seriously considering something. I come off a lot goofier and friendlier in person, I promise. Something something tone of voice

 

But I have considered some options. I do want to make that mechanic something manageable and logical, but then logically and realistically punching a boulder should do nothing more than hurt your hand... unless you're wearing steel gloves, in which case you shouldn't hurt your hands, but still you're not going to be strong enough to punch through a rock no matter how hard the gauntlets you're wearing are. Anything wielded on the hand is not going to do the leverage or cleaving forces required to split rock or metal objects. That's where tools come into play. They multiply the mechanical forces involved, not just protect you from damage.

 

Long boring science lessons aside, it would be nice if I could give a way for the player to protect themselves against this kind of damage, but it's not likely to be something you get at the beginning of the game for free just because the server doesn't have a lot of tiny rocks left.

 

Maybe digging in the dirt with your hands should be considered as a possibility. You're not going to dig very fast, but if you can find an area with some sandstone, that stuff should be able to be shattered realistically quickly by a hand. Of course, realistically speaking just digging in the dirt SHOULD give you small stones as a natural consequence, but now we're getting into XML balance territory.

 

Actually... I think that might be a good compromise. Chance of a few rocks as a harvest resource in every block of dirt. Sandstone could have the most, then Dirt/Forest/Plains ground, Clay after that, then Sand least of all. All still "earth" type and not "hard" in the sense it would hurt your hands. Gravel, of course, IS rock, and would hurt to punch, but would also give up a decent amount of stones for little damage. It would solve the problem of overpopulated/late-day servers not having rocks anywhere for the newbies, too.

 

Maybe even have the hoe be a tool that increases the yield of rocks from the soil, as it turns the ground into tilled farmland type soil that (ideally) has no rocks to speak of.

[JaxTeller718]

Did you or do you have Starvation loaded? If so, likely cross contamination on mod load due to sdx files left over in your game user directory.

 

Nope fresh install on a completely wiped server and installed on my end using the Launcher from a clean download of files. It MIGHT be the POI, i DID spawn it in using Coppi. Will check some other POIs that were naturally spawned in.

[Tetrameth]

Realistically speaking though, time would be better spent looking on the surface for rocks suitable for a stone axe rather than digging.

 

Its hard for me to speak from a new players experience, So speaking only from what i know, the whole 'get a stone, get a stick, get some plant fiber etc can be pretty robotic as an initial start-game mechanic.

 

The real experience blossoms from that point, usually starting from the first container/zombie you come across.

 

So rather than give special gloves to the char, why not just give the items to make a stone axe [or even just a quality 1 stone axe] to the char in each starter package. It could come with some flavor text regarding how the player came across this item.

[xyth]

A welder who wields a welder is called a wielder. Clear?

 

@Tetrameth - Thanks for the report. I checked this out for you and found that the name "wielder" is used consistently in the loot, recipes and items files for this tool. No mention of welder exists there. However, it is translated in the localization file consistently to display welder in game descriptions. My guess is it displays twice in the creative window because of this. Both have the same icon and same name (welder) so no harm. If Spider wants to cleaned up its easy enough to do but involves all three tables.

[xyth]

Okay, new idea to solve the rock and stick issue and improve immersion. Change the item "rocksmall" action0 from a throw to a regular hit. Then move action0 code to action1. In the real world, to craft a primitive tool head you use a rock to chip a rock. So the smallrock becomes a temporary tool for getting rocks till you fashion a stone ax.

[Spider]

@Tetrameth-

I think you are mistaking this for Val mod. I expect a player starting my Mod to have at lest a few 100 hours in vanilla. This is not a Mod you start with this is the one you finish on. When I make something more challenging or give more responsibility to the player I don't then go behind my self and give them a free loop hole to jump through. If even as a new player, if you cannot tell that punching stone with your hands is not a good idea(with the blood on the screen and loosing health point) then you were not going to make it very far in this mod anyway. This is exactly why I resist any talk of making the mod easier. First you want a free set of clothes on start then you want a weapon then you want a tool OMG should I give you a free starter house or a full medical kit? Come on! This is a hardcore Mod stop trying to make it Sesame Street with Care bares. When you play this you should be cursing me out not congratulating me on making a well rounded mod. I want rage quitters not people on picnics with zombies.

 

NO MORE CARE BARE SLIDING! THIS IS THE HARDCORE MOD FOR 7D2D AND I WILL NOT LET IT SLIDE IN TO MEDIOCRITY ANYMORE.

 

The SDX Version of the Mod is already the easiest version so far. This is changing, I am fixing it. Its far to easy as it plays right now. A$$ Clinching is coming back.

[Spider]

@JaxTeller718-

Not sure whats going on there. There are no loot cantainers like that in the block file so even spawning in a new POI shouldn't do that I don't think.

 

@gzzuss-

Turn down your UMA textures

 

 

I think we will go with the Branches and Logs, = Firewood, Planks, Sticks and have random stuff fall from the trees like Birds nest, feather and some other stuff. I think it will go nicely with the new things Xyth is doing to the loot tables. He is adding some common since to container loot, making it more specific to the container, adding fun new scrapable immersion items like toilet paper, Teddy bears, Game-boys and other "junk" items that will be able to be scraped to various items, adding new loot groups for "new" night time zombies, container buff?! and much more.

 

 

About the post earlier. Do we want all these building block able to be upgraded and downgraded to something else? Now I like the blocks that are made for it like the wood block has 4 stages and the scrap iron has 3 but do we want(need) Wood to upgrade to the Scrap Iron block? Or do we want the Cobblestone to upgrade to Concrete? It hasn't always been that way, it is kind of immersion breaking, the extra layers does make surviving hordes easier. I mean a good argument could be made for breaking a lot of that stuff up. Thoughts?

[vic21]

Oh no Tetrameth look what you have done, you awoke the beast and we all are gonna die in pain now O:

I'm grabbing my sticks and running already

[Darkstardragon]

@Tetrameth-

I think you are mistaking this for Val mod. I expect a player starting my Mod to have at lest a few 100 hours in vanilla. This is not a Mod you start with this is the one you finish on. When I make something more challenging or give more responsibility to the player I don't then go behind my self and give them a free loop hole to jump through. If even as a new player, if you cannot tell that punching stone with your hands is not a good idea(with the blood on the screen and loosing health point) then you were not going to make it very far in this mod anyway. This is exactly why I resist any talk of making the mod easier. First you want a free set of clothes on start then you want a weapon then you want a tool OMG should I give you a free starter house or a full medical kit? Come on! This is a hardcore Mod stop trying to make it Sesame Street with Care bares. When you play this you should be cursing me out not congratulating me on making a well rounded mod. I want rage quitters not people on picnics with zombies.

 

NO MORE CARE BARE SLIDING! THIS IS THE HARDCORE MOD FOR 7D2D AND I WILL NOT LET IT SLIDE IN TO MEDIOCRITY ANYMORE.

 

The SDX Version of the Mod is already the easiest version so far. This is changing, I am fixing it. Its far to easy as it plays right now. A$$ Clinching is coming back.

 

Yea, if its any indicator, i havent died on jaxtellers server, and me and unlikem have only died once each on your server and they were fluke deaths. I was sprayed by a bandit as he was shooting at a zombie.

[xyth]

@JaxTeller718-

Not sure whats going on there. There are no loot cantainers like that in the block file so even spawning in a new POI shouldn't do that I don't think.

 

@gzzuss-

Turn down your UMA textures

 

 

I think we will go with the Branches and Logs, = Firewood, Planks, Sticks and have random stuff fall from the trees like Birds nest, feather and some other stuff. I think it will go nicely with the new things Xyth is doing to the loot tables. He is adding some common since to container loot, making it more specific to the container, adding fun new scrapable immersion items like toilet paper, Teddy bears, Game-boys and other "junk" items that will be able to be scraped to various items, adding new loot groups for "new" night time zombies, container buff?! and much more.

 

 

About the post earlier. Do we want all these building block able to be upgraded and downgraded to something else? Now I like the blocks that are made for it like the wood block has 4 stages and the scrap iron has 3 but do we want(need) Wood to upgrade to the Scrap Iron block? Or do we want the Cobblestone to upgrade to Concrete? It hasn't always been that way, it is kind of immersion breaking, the extra layers does make surviving hordes easier. I mean a good argument could be made for breaking a lot of that stuff up. Thoughts?

 

I recommend that realism be the guide on this. For wood, you can keep adding wood to make the block stonger. You can put iron bands (scrap) onto the wood to make it stronger, but that's as far as you can go based on the woodblock/frame on that path. Most of the other paths are one way though, and at best you get reuseable materials upon destroy. For the metals you could possibly use screws to add more plates to have an extended range of hardness. The stone path is tougher to upgrade, but you could consider allowing metal banding or plating to provide an upgrade path. The models wont match well as you have to use what you got.

[unlike them]

Yea, if its any indicator, i havent died on jaxtellers server, and me and unlikem have only died once each on your server and they were fluke deaths. I was sprayed by a bandit as he was shooting at a zombie.

 

No, my death was 'legit', I was mining at night in burnt biome, and a Brute fell into the unsealed entrance. No room for maneuver, his helmet protecting his head, it was a fair fight and I lost it

[Spider]

@Darkstardragon-

Yes I have noticed the low deaths and high levels on servers. I have also been watching a few YouTubers that play the old mod and the SDX version. But have no fear work is already underway. Assassins have been hired, lazy zombies executed and the culling of the living to make a fresh army of undead has begun. Soon you will again cower in the dark as your home is destroyed while day dream of this quite play through you have enjoyed.

 

lol on another topic. The x2 harvesting resource peak some professions get is too much, I think we all agree on that. What should take its place? 1/2 extra, 1/4 extra something completely different?

[unlike them]

Do we want all these building block able to be upgraded and downgraded to something else? Now I like the blocks that are made for it like the wood block has 4 stages and the scrap iron has 3 but do we want(need) Wood to upgrade to the Scrap Iron block? Or do we want the Cobblestone to upgrade to Concrete? It hasn't always been that way, it is kind of immersion breaking, the extra layers does make surviving hordes easier. I mean a good argument could be made for breaking a lot of that stuff up. Thoughts?

 

I would prefer the old way of materials NOT able to upgrade into a different material (wood upgraded only to iron reinforced wood), but it's not a big deal for me, I'm OK with it either way.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The x2 harvesting resource peak some professions get is too much, I think we all agree on that. What should take its place? 1/2 extra, 1/4 extra something completely different?

 

I remember you wanted to implement some drawbacks/negative stats. Maybe 1/2 extra + some negative stats.

[Spider]

ITs not a big deal untill you really think about how it effects game play.

 

1)Takes zombies much longer to break down many layers of a block

2)Makes building a base much faster and easier

3)makes you able to build blocks that you can not craft

4)Lessens the thought needed into laying out and constructing a nice base

5)Breaks immersion to make (ex)Cobblestone into something else

 

And thats just off the top of my head.

[unlike them]

The first thing that comes to mind is the abundance of meat. I remember harvesting 60+ meat from a chiken. It was double harvest perk, 100 hunting skill and a field knife. But even on day one I coud harvest enough meat from a dear with a stone axe to last me a day. Meat should be valuable in this mod. The easy way to fix it is to reduce the meat count from harvesting animals. But I would prefer of some creative way to make hunting more challenging. Maybe to make a chance a pig fights back after being hit. Sort of it was a wild boar. Damage and speed of a zombie-dog. Or having the NEED for animal traps or fishing. Currently there is no need to fish.

[Spider]

I was going to wait to announce this with the update but I'm just so happy I cant wait.

 

*Drum Roll *

 

I am super duper happy to announce I am no longer a army of 1. I have conscripted 2 mighty code warriors to help make True Survival the best Hardcore 7D2D mod out there.

 

Introducing Jeoshua!

 

Our new .dll spelunking coder. Hes deep dark trips into the .dll files have brought back many treasure and his epic battle against the Workstation Lag Dragon is of legend. We look forward to many more treasures being brought forth from the depths.Welcome to the team.

 

 

 

Also Introducing Xyth!

 

This necromancer of xml's is bringing back to life common sense in our loot containers and is summoning many new items to fill you inventory. With his magical insight he has many ideas to make the dead worth fighting again. Welcome to the team.

 

 

Also a special thanks to-

 

Unlike them - For baring the burden of the world(at lest the one on the server) and helping moderate the server

&

Darkstardragon - For sometimes helping wipe the buggies from new spawns face and set them up with a Profession Kit

 

 

I was really starting to wain on my interest in the mod and 7D2D in general but the energy and enjoyment the community has shown over the last few weeks is really heartening. And having others want to put time and work into it has really stoked my fire and made me want to put some serious work into the mod. Luckily I have some time over the next week so I will be in the lab working on a nice overhaul on a lot of aspects of the mod. So any ideas or bugs you have now would be the time to post them.

[unlike them]

Maybe I have a request for Jeoshua, can you investigate if it is possible to access the map while riding a minibike? Maybe it is some UI trick?

[vic21]

Wow that's amazing!!! More man power to this great mod! You sirs have all my respect and admiration. Now i don't care about A16 (almost)

[owl79]

A few things I have found that I think are not intentional:

 

- Cowboy hats and leather jackets can be scrapped, but cowboy boots and running shoes can't (they don't have a weight property assigned)

 

- Adobe has only 1000hp. Imagine my surprise when I upgraded flagstone (5000hp) to find it became way less durable, even more so since this upgrade branch doesn't even destroy into the previous block, but just crumbles away.

 

- A swordblade costs frickin 1000 steel. Steel tools cost 100. This must be a typo, right? RIGHT?

 

- There's no recipe to make redwood blocks from actual redwood, seems a bit strange to only use that for the fermentation barrel instead. Also, some redwood recipes are double and seem to be leftovers from an older version (made from sticks/rope)?

[Yaraer]

Too much zombies spawn in a short period of time. With these condition the game or/and server can not handle it very well. Often occuring the konzol issue or fps drop. The horde night is unplayable. Doesnt matter what kind of base you have, the cop can completely degrade or destroy the block with a single spit. Otherwise the range of cop spit is too high. Before you even realize it, 3 cop is spit your location. Demolition is garanteed. The steel upgrade is pointless. Difficult to create but at least not wort anything. Pvp server... you dont need any tool to raid the hardest base, just wait around the base at horde day and kite them into the base defense and they will perform instead of you. Nail gun require a gun smithing skill to repair? Why? Is it a tool or weapon? Why not require an engineer skill? Bear trap provide an infinite animal. Assembled wepon repair much less decrease a durability then parts repair. Friendly npc everywhere... too many. Sometimes they are more then zombies. Their action also decreasing the server performance. Infinite zombies spawn in smaller cities. Not rare when 5 screamer spawn in a row. Then 5x20 zombies spawn in the next minute... then lag and fps drop follows which is not too funny, but at least annoying.

[Jeoshua]

About the post earlier. Do we want all these building block able to be upgraded and downgraded to something else? Now I like the blocks that are made for it like the wood block has 4 stages and the scrap iron has 3 but do we want(need) Wood to upgrade to the Scrap Iron block? Or do we want the Cobblestone to upgrade to Concrete? It hasn't always been that way, it is kind of immersion breaking, the extra layers does make surviving hordes easier. I mean a good argument could be made for breaking a lot of that stuff up. Thoughts?

 

I say that things should upgrade to everything sharing their frame. It always struck me as odd that you can make flagstone, then "upgrade" it to adobe, then upgrade that to concrete, then upgrade that to concrete with rebar frames inside it. Realistically none of those make sense, one of those was actually a downgrade, and even drilling holes in concrete should not allow you to add rebar.

 

People might bitch a little that they can't just upgrade their day one house all the way up, over time, but then one can just add the newer, more hearty level of walls around their base and mine out the interior walls over time.

 

Wood should upgrade to the first level of scrap iron tho, but then still decompose back through the stages into a wood frame.

 

One change I did test was letting everything upgrade all the way up through the stages, but making the upgrade cost and hit counts make it actually be more expensive and take longer than tearing it down and starting fresh would have. That's sort of realistic, as it would be more expensive and much harder to upgrade something in situ, but it looked strange banging on a wall with a hammer 100 times to upgrade it to concrete. Something to think on tho.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

lol on another topic. The x2 harvesting resource peak some professions get is too much, I think we all agree on that. What should take its place? 1/2 extra, 1/4 extra something completely different?

In my testing I gave them all a x1.25 setting. It might be a bit low tho. Maybe between 1.25 and 1.5 depending on the class. It is a multiplier to ALL harvesting.

[Darkstardragon]

No, my death was 'legit', I was mining at night in burnt biome, and a Brute fell into the unsealed entrance. No room for maneuver, his helmet protecting his head, it was a fair fight and I lost it

 

Oh yea, i remember now, thought it was a fluke, we went hunting for that zombie but never found it lol

 

Anyhow, spider is thinking of removing the survivor npcs. I would like to know what you players think about this. Its possible they could be moved to a few pois like the bandits have a few bases. Could make them only spawn in burnt forest and wasteland like the bandits. They are too op right now as they spawn everywhere and everyone can have their own little army. So im looking for some feedback- yes or no and why. I dont want to make more npcs if nobody wants them in the mod.

[unlike them]

Potentially NPCs are a great addition, but currently they don't have any distinct role in the mod. The only thing they are useful for is helping a starting player to fight zombies. Discarding NPCs would be a great loss, but honestly, in their current state they are not worth much. I don't know how much they are responsible for the lag. I had some ideas to use them in base defense, but I was afraid it would be a constant lag if I had a bunch of them near my base all the time. Bandits are not a real threat either, they miss most of their shots.

 

I would be happy if the survivors count was greatly nerfed, so each time you meet one was a surprise (maybe make them about as rare as bears are).