Armor buffs are inconsistent and should be Unquie

[Adam the Waster]

Simple..gloves buffs are very inconsistent 

I'm going by level 2 cuz I don't know the Max for all. 

 

But level 2

Farmer: 4% rifle!!!! Why

Commando 20% All Guns. 

Biker: 20% all melee

Ranger: 20% lever action and revolver 

Nomad: 20% damage to radioactive 

 

What happened to Farmer??? What are rifles to op? Then you got the main one most people wear.. Preacher 

 

Preacher gives 20% damage at level two too all undead targets.... aka everything 

 

Why wear anything else unless you ether want a full buff or are forcing yourself not too. I force myself not to wear Preacher gloves I wear Athlete gloves

 

Boots have the same issue too. 

4 boots share the same buff

 

Athlete, enforcer, Commando and Nomad share the run speed buff. They should be different 

 

Enforcer could buff stamina or run speed duration,

Commando buffs aimed down sights,

Nomad could buff critical protection 

 

 

Hats also have some issues like Commando and biker share the same buff.  Stun resistance.  

 

Instead it should be. 

Biker gives stun resistance 

Commando buffs firerate

 

 

Outfit... say it with me. Have the same issues. 

Biker, Ranger, and Athlete share the same hp buff... 

 

Ranger should be changed to be buffed reload speed 

 

Enforcer and raider share the same buff and that's fine. 

 

Edited August 26 by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

[theFlu]

Hmm... the farmer rifle damage is weak; but it's not exactly a combat set in any way. You gain no benefit to combat from the rest of the set; so you're going to swap around if you care, and enjoy shooing off vultures with your rifle if you don't... My best guess is it's weak to encourage swapping, kinda meant to be left in a box next to your farm.

 

Preacher is clearly designed with bandits in mind, so it might come with a drawback later on...  but right now it is indeed the best in slot for gloves, unless you plan to get beat on. Something is going to be bis, but .. at least make it 50% at max, so you "could" swap for a "+60% melee" instead.

 

Shared buffs I don't mind at all; it's not unreasonable that different shoes are optimized for similar things; and run speed is prolly the most logical one. Given that run speed is also reduced by the heaviness of the armors, 3/4 of them are not even the same speed.

I dunno how boots are supposed to get you more seeds thou.. special soles to catch stray seeds in them?

[Adam the Waster]

2 hours ago, theFlu said:

Hmm... the farmer rifle damage is weak; but it's not exactly a combat set in any way. You gain no benefit to combat from the rest of the set; so you're going to swap around if you care, and enjoy shooing off vultures with your rifle if you don't... My best guess is it's weak to encourage swapping, kinda meant to be left in a box next to your farm.

 

Preacher is clearly designed with bandits in mind, so it might come with a drawback later on...  but right now it is indeed the best in slot for gloves, unless you plan to get beat on. Something is going to be bis, but .. at least make it 50% at max, so you "could" swap for a "+60% melee" instead.

 

Shared buffs I don't mind at all; it's not unreasonable that different shoes are optimized for similar things; and run speed is prolly the most logical one. Given that run speed is also reduced by the heaviness of the armors, 3/4 of them are not even the same speed.

I dunno how boots are supposed to get you more seeds thou.. special soles to catch stray seeds in them?

I think all armors should be viable. Farmer for example.  It's a looks pretty cool and I can wear it around but the buffs... just aren't good. 

 

 

[theFlu]

30 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

I think all armors should be viable. Farmer for example.  It's a looks pretty cool and I can wear it around but the buffs... just aren't good. 

Viability is a weird one; I do agree with the idea, but it doesn't really apply to specialized outfits. If farmer, scavenger and miner sets are also just as good as the "pure combat" sets for combat, then the combat sets are pointless.

 

TFP seems to have gone with a mixed bag, with some choices to avoid any significant stacking (like damage bonuses are mostly on gloves, not on any other pieces).

There are

- four sets that could be considered "pure combat" (biker, commando, raider, assassin (stealth is combat, I'd think))

- three sets with plenty of combat power, but also barter (preacher, enforcer, ranger)

- five "pure gathering" (lumber, scav, mine, farmer (the 20% rifles is negligible, feels like flavoring), rogue (looting bonuses all around)).

- one kinda pure "role-playish" set, (athletic), fun for travel, but not really that useful..

- couple role-playish, but combative sets, (nerd, nomad)

 

For me, the weirdest part* is the strong barter buff on plenty of pieces; it's a little too strong to ignore, so everyone's gonna have one of those hats. Other than that, given the variety of sets, it's pretty nice to see that "I could use that as a main set for a playthrough" for pretty much all of them - other than the gathering sets ofc. And while combining different sets might give some slight benefits (getting run speed into a set that doesn't have it, for example), it isn't practically that enticing for many of them. So overall, I'd say good job.

 

* Ok yeah, stealth is broken with the set bonus .. but it always was

[Adam the Waster]

15 hours ago, theFlu said:

Viability is a weird one; I do agree with the idea, but it doesn't really apply to specialized outfits. If farmer, scavenger and miner sets are also just as good as the "pure combat" sets for combat, then the combat sets are pointless.

 

TFP seems to have gone with a mixed bag, with some choices to avoid any significant stacking (like damage bonuses are mostly on gloves, not on any other pieces).

There are

- four sets that could be considered "pure combat" (biker, commando, raider, assassin (stealth is combat, I'd think))

- three sets with plenty of combat power, but also barter (preacher, enforcer, ranger)

- five "pure gathering" (lumber, scav, mine, farmer (the 20% rifles is negligible, feels like flavoring), rogue (looting bonuses all around)).

- one kinda pure "role-playish" set, (athletic), fun for travel, but not really that useful..

- couple role-playish, but combative sets, (nerd, nomad)

 

For me, the weirdest part* is the strong barter buff on plenty of pieces; it's a little too strong to ignore, so everyone's gonna have one of those hats. Other than that, given the variety of sets, it's pretty nice to see that "I could use that as a main set for a playthrough" for pretty much all of them - other than the gathering sets ofc. And while combining different sets might give some slight benefits (getting run speed into a set that doesn't have it, for example), it isn't practically that enticing for many of them. So overall, I'd say good job.

 

* Ok yeah, stealth is broken with the set bonus .. but it always was

At the end of the day I can still wear it but its not really recommended but the full set buff is pretty good so idk what they were thinking 

 

Rouge the only good part is the hoodie 

Athlete 

[BFT2020]

15 hours ago, theFlu said:

For me, the weirdest part* is the strong barter buff on plenty of pieces; it's a little too strong to ignore, so everyone's gonna have one of those hats.

 

Don't use absolutes as all it takes is one weird person (in this case me) to prove an absolute wrong.  😉

 

I am on Day 67 of my current playthrough and I have yet to use any armor gear to boost my barter skill.  I have modded the vanilla game regarding traders, but that was to increase the reset time to every 7 days instead of 3 (along with a flat increase in prices for quality gear, I think I have the increase currently set at 10 for Q6 gear).  I choose every 7 days as I typically go on a trader buying spree the day after horde night to restock ammo and see what items they have for sell I might need - the most I use to affect barter prices is the 44 mag which I already carry since I typically play Agility builds.

 

Right now I am using the scavenger armor set for my current playthrough.  I do swap out for the miner / lumberjack sets when I set aside a day to mine / harvest resources (since that is the main activity all day).

 

The only time I will use the barter armor equipment is if I decide to play using that armor set - I try not to min max stats when I play.

 

So far I have played using the following full sets:

• Athletics
• Commando
• Assassin
• Scavenger

 

I also don't feel that every amour piece needs to have an unique buff.  I am perfectly fine if amour pieces have similar buffs that others currently have.

[theFlu]

17 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Don't use absolutes as all it takes is one weird person (in this case me) to prove an absolute wrong.  😉

Eh, a hostile reader can demolish any sentence. I mean, your instruction there is an absolute, "Don't do it". It is strong enough to be phrased like that, but it self-negates. "This sentence is false". If all a hostile reader has to pick on is an overzealous absolute, the point has been missed already. I rather skip the caveats nowadays, can't please them all.

 

You're into modifying the game, and weakening the traders; I'm talking about how vanilla is designed and plays. Essentially, we're talking about different games. And since you think the vanilla traders are "too strong for your sensibilities", then I'd assume you agree giving a +50% effective trade ratio at the drop of a hat isn't improving the situation...

 

Assuming by "I have played using" you mean something like "I have done a full playthru mostly using" .. well, you've played a combat game wearing tissue paper with little usable stats (athletics gear). Combat-wise that's not far from using a primitive set. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not a playstyle that needs any strict design; past "it's possible as some people will have horrible RNG and be stuck with primitive for eternity". I'm kinda judging the design against obvious flaws, not necessarily practical playability - one can play this nude if they like, no problem.

[Adam the Waster]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Don't use absolutes as all it takes is one weird person (in this case me) to prove an absolute wrong.  😉

 

 

I also don't feel that every amour piece needs to have an unique buff.  I am perfectly fine if amour pieces have similar buffs that others currently have.

I still think armors should buff should be at least maybe 1 or two dupe abilities

 

Maybe on different parts like how Ranger boots and athletic gloves have the same buff. That's fine 

 

But armor in the same class with the same ability is silly

 

Plus some are just too good. Like Commando for me is just ranged biker 

 

[Javabean867]

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Don't use absolutes as all it takes is one weird person (in this case me) to prove an absolute wrong.  😉

 

I am on Day 67 of my current playthrough and I have yet to use any armor gear to boost my barter skill.  I have modded the vanilla game regarding traders, but that was to increase the reset time to every 7 days instead of 3 (along with a flat increase in prices for quality gear, I think I have the increase currently set at 10 for Q6 gear).  I choose every 7 days as I typically go on a trader buying spree the day after horde night to restock ammo and see what items they have for sell I might need - the most I use to affect barter prices is the 44 mag which I already carry since I typically play Agility builds.

 

Right now I am using the scavenger armor set for my current playthrough.  I do swap out for the miner / lumberjack sets when I set aside a day to mine / harvest resources (since that is the main activity all day).

 

The only time I will use the barter armor equipment is if I decide to play using that armor set - I try not to min max stats when I play.

 

So far I have played using the following full sets:

• Athletics
• Commando
• Assassin
• Scavenger

 

I also don't feel that every amour piece needs to have an unique buff.  I am perfectly fine if amour pieces have similar buffs that others currently have.

The Raider Set is awesome.  It's my go to tank set.  

And i don't bother with the trader bonuses either.  Maybe when i play an int build i'll worry about it, seeing it is already built into the perks in that tree.

[TWORDY]

On 8/25/2024 at 6:48 PM, Adam the Waster said:

But level 2

Farmer: 4% rifle!!!! Why

Commando 20% All Guns. 

Biker: 20% all melee

Ranger: 20% lever action and revolver 

Nomad: 20% damage to radioactive 

 

Hmmm. I kinda grasp what You are saying. I would opt for max 15% buff on LvL 5 armors. 3% step of each level might be fine. 20% buff of damage to all weapons, dedicated to preacher LvL 2 armor seems pretty steep. I feel like there is a strong push to make outfits extremely relevant, and instead of flattening the damage input/output curve... we are getting more and more buffs on armor. Maybe I am missing something or I don`t see the full picture. Anyways...

 

On 8/25/2024 at 6:48 PM, Adam the Waster said:

What happened to Farmer??? What are rifles to op? Then you got the main one most people wear.. Preacher 

 

Yeah, magic 4%.

 

If Rifle is being talked about then M60 is probably the most decent weapon in the whole game if you completely ignore effective range. I feel like Lever Action, Bolt Action, Semi-auto Sniper Rifle fall behind in every category in TTK (damage per bullet times rounds per minute). For Snipers, 40% damage bonus with consecutive hits in late-game on higher difficulty levels seems not enough, 50% should be by default day 1. 25% bonus damage in late-game on top of that. But this is my feeling on Warrior and stats do not make much difference on default difficulty settings, perhaps more of economy-wise with bullet production. My quick thoughts after several playthroughs and having a quick look at stats, ammo cost, and effectiveness. Once a player perks up in different categories of weapons the problem is solved, one of the factors nobody bothers. Separate ammo-type for Sniper Rifles, more scarce, even more expensive would satisfy me. At least some of the swimming in 7.62 ammo-type posts would come to an end at least partially. My gut feeling... and yeah 6 more slots in the backpack. Players do love more slots, never enough when it comes to slots when more items appear in the game.

 

On 8/25/2024 at 6:48 PM, Adam the Waster said:

Enforcer could buff stamina or run speed duration,

Commando buffs aimed down sights,

Nomad could buff critical protection 

 

Hats also have some issues like Commando and biker share the same buff.  Stun resistance.  

 

Instead it should be. 

Biker gives stun resistance 

Commando buffs firerate

 

 

Outfit... say it with me. Have the same issues. 

Biker, Ranger, and Athlete share the same hp buff... 

 

Ranger should be changed to be buffed reload speed 

 

Enforcer and raider share the same buff and that's fine. 

 

I kind of agree. Outfits should grant movement buffs and additional protection. Allowing players to deal more damage (WITH ARMORS) to Zeds with automatic guns feels off and completely Arcade-ish all over the board. But it is TFPs game. 

 

Quicker stamina/hp debuffs, better movement, stun resistance, faster critical healing or prevention to bleed out, better protection against animal attacks/tear wounds, blunt melee damage protection, weather resistance, fire-chemical-electrical resistance, fall resistance, water/air filtering, radiation resistance, different aiming down sights (ADSing), faster reloads, duralibility, repair/maintenance costs, upgrade costs, number of mod slots... the list goes on. Bonuses to gathering resources (because this may fall under movement) - I am fine with that. There are so many things that can be done with outfits but simply it is mostly damage dealt in combat... cmon. Please, think for a moment. This is what the armor should be all about.

 

We would love to see more emphasis put on Survival aspects and slightly towards simulation.

 

I am not criticizing anyone but this is what lies in my gut. I don't expect anyone to completely agree with my statements above.

 

Adam, I agree with the bullet points you have raised above.

[Krougal]

3 hours ago, TWORDY said:

Outfits should grant movement buffs and additional protection. Allowing players to deal more damage (WITH ARMORS) to Zeds with automatic guns feels off and completely Arcade-ish all over the board.

What? Tiered guns don't feel arcade-ish? A 7.62mm is a 7.62mm is a 7.62mm.