Farming (crop) improvements

[GuardianReaper0]

While there is perks and gear that make farming better, it still takes a LOT to provide for larger groups (3+ players). That’s where I would really like to see additional structure pieces and mechanics to make it even more viable.

 

- Irrigation, putting a block of water “nearby” within 2-3 blocks should increase yield

 

- Greenhouse Glass (structures), using this around your crops would speed up grow time

 

- Hydroponics Bench (looks like the hydroponics equipment you can find at many locations), can craft seeds here at a further reduced cost, however takes longer to craft. In theory as if you were germinating seeds. 
 

- Apple Trees, you can plant them like you would any other tree, and when they reach full maturity, they would begin dropping fruit periodically. Much like how the small stones appear on the ground and can simply be picked up. This would provide a stable food source, allow another ingredient for more foods like apple pie, and add a reason to have aesthetics like a tree in your compound.

 

These are the main suggestions I have for farming, and I believe they would greatly help the farming aspect of the game to where players don’t feel as required to spend a lot of extra time doing the farming actions when in with a larger group.

[Suxar]

With level 3 farming, there is no problem to provide for even a group of 10 people. 24 beds are quite enough for one person. Even 16, since mushrooms do not need a bed.

[GuardianReaper0]

6 hours ago, Suxar said:

With level 3 farming, there is no problem to provide for even a group of 10 people. 24 beds are quite enough for one person. Even 16, since mushrooms do not need a bed.

1. You must be on a different difficulty.

OR

2. You have multiple people willing to work on the farm in rotation. 
 

I’m on console, playing 1.0 with my buddies (4 of us total). I’m the only one doing farming. This and other base related stuff is what I end up spending 90% of my time doing. 
 

So increasing OPTIONS to increase efficiency would be much appreciated. I’d like the game to let me have fun, not just feel like I’m constantly doing chores.

[meganoth]

12 minutes ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

This and other base related stuff is what I end up spending 90% of my time doing. 

 

Please leave out the other base related stuff (as it has no relevance to the topic) and tell us what is left then?

 

I play in a 4 player co-op game and our farmer has put down ~20-30 farm plots and our food chest is half full with stacks of food, we clearly are overproducing. 20-30 farm plots give food every 2 days, harvesting is done in say 20 seconds, making new seeds and planting them is the worst part and needs say 5 minutes real time. That is less than 5% of your time per day and can be easily done at night.

 

Usually in a co-op game one is the farmer, one other the cook, ... . If you do everything base related it is either your choice or your co-players have not understood what co--op means. In the latter case it may be time to start a discussion and protest that they take advantage of you.

 

 

[Suxar]

What does the difficulty level have to do with it? Food and water consumption do not depend on the difficulty level.
Harvesting and planting crops occur once every 2 hours of real time. One player can easily maintain a garden of 100 cells and will need only 5 minutes during these 2 hours.

[BFT2020]

There is also the farming outfit which now boosts farming yields and seed chance.  At the very least, the farmer of the group should have a set of Farmer armor to use when harvesting their crops.  You don't need to use Q6 armor (if Legendary parts are limited) to get a good bonus while farming.

[GuardianReaper0]

The more you use stamina, the more food and water you go through. We go through a lot. I spend at least 20% of my time dealing with farm related stuff.

 

MAIN POINT is that it adds more options, that help to vary gameplay, rather than just massive farms that you must have separate from rest of base.

[Suxar]

15 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

I spend at least 20% of my time dealing with farm related stuff.

I, like meganoth, am also starting to wonder what you can do there for so long? 24 minutes between harvests is a very long time. This time is enough to read out the POI of the third level, at the same time dismantling everything that is possible in it, including the garbage on the floor.

[GuardianReaper0]

5 hours ago, Suxar said:

I, like meganoth, am also starting to wonder what you can do there for so long? 24 minutes between harvests is a very long time. This time is enough to read out the POI of the third level, at the same time dismantling everything that is possible in it, including the garbage on the floor.

Not everyone moves at the speed run pace that you seem to. Stop and ask yourself, why are you really against this suggestion?

 

It could add more variance to the game. What is wrong with that, why are you fighting it so hard?

 

Plenty of things have been added to the game over the years for the simple reason of adding more variance to the game. Why should this be any different?

[meganoth]

56 minutes ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

Not everyone moves at the speed run pace that you seem to. Stop and ask yourself, why are you really against this suggestion?

 

It could add more variance to the game. What is wrong with that, why are you fighting it so hard?

 

Plenty of things have been added to the game over the years for the simple reason of adding more variance to the game. Why should this be any different?

 

Lets say your suggestion isn't bad if TFP saw a problem with farming or wanted to add some end-game farming stuff to do. Hint: As far as we know both isn't the case currently. They have lists of ideas they would want to implement if they have time, but they don't have time, they already have a full calendar with the stuff on the "Post 1.0 Roadmap". So to change something that is thought to be release-worthy except for small balance changes there must be a compelling reason.

 

Your reason to want this seems to be that farming takes too much time and frankly, nobody else in this thread seems to have this problem, even in co-op MP. We simply don't understand why you need so much time for something we do on the side without being bothered by it. So FOR US development time spent to design new unneccesarry farming systems while we already swim in food in our games is wasted time that could be spent adding other stuff.

 

Hey, no worries, we don't decide what gets added. But you probably need to show TFP why we are in the wrong and you present the typical player who is short on food and wastes too much time farming.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Suxar]

2 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

It could add more variance to the game. What is wrong with that, why are you fighting it so hard?

 

What is the point of these options? The fewer options, the less hassle.
By and large, very few types of food are prepared. At first, it is fried meat, fried corn and baked potatoes. A little later, it is meat stew and vegetable stew. Next, it is Gumbo stew. That's it.
There are also few options for drinks. At first, goldenrod or chrysanthemum tea, then either mineral water or smoothie.
Everything else is variable. Yes, there are good dishes, but they require canned food, and there is usually very little of it. In addition, it seemed to me that their quantity was reduced compared to A20.

Food should restore health and satiety, nothing more is required of it. Therefore, there is no point in talking about any variability.

[GuardianReaper0]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Lets say your suggestion isn't bad if TFP saw a problem with farming or wanted to add some end-game farming stuff to do. Hint: As far as we know both isn't the case currently. They have lists of ideas they would want to implement if they have time, but they don't have time, they already have a full calendar with the stuff on the "Post 1.0 Roadmap". So to change something that is thought to be release-worthy except for small balance changes there must be a compelling reason.

 

Your reason to want this seems to be that farming takes too much time and frankly, nobody else in this thread seems to have this problem, even in co-op MP. We simply don't understand why you need so much time for something we do on the side without being bothered by it. So FOR US development time spent to design new unneccesarry farming systems while we already swim in food in our games is wasted time that could be spent adding other stuff.

 

Hey, no worries, we don't decide what gets added. But you probably need to show TFP why we are in the wrong and you present the typical player who is short on food and wastes too much time farming.

 

 

 

 

Following your logic, there is absolutely no point of using the forums. That they already know exactly what they are going to do, how they are going to do it, and aren’t going to take into account anything we suggest.

 

I would hope that is NOT the case, and given some of the things they have implemented, I would say these devs actually listen to players.

 

The game itself only has so much in it. Play through, max out, restart. Not much to it unless you enjoy getting creative with building or doing roleplay. 
Now, I’ve heard they intend to add some kind of story in, and I hope that is true, but until then, there is only the creative and RP elements.

 

So, if players are stuck doing the same exact thing with every play through without variance, then they are likely going to lose playerbase fairly rapidly. 
 

With the suggestions that I am making here (and other posts) enables players to have more of that needed variance in their games. You may not be able to envision it right away, but given enough time I think you would.

 

CURRENTLY, farming is a pretty cut and dry aspect of the game. Farms are generally either built in a meta underground way or as large mega farms separate from the main base. 
By adding things like I’m suggesting, players could build more efficient farms and gardens in as part of their bases, in different ways. They could add orchards. Even a centerpiece apple tree that looks good and helps keep them fed. 
The other guy even mentioned that the foods are still fairly limited in all reality. Why not add some more stuff that will keep it interesting (maybe someone wants to roleplay as a vegetarian or they even add in more challenges like eating no meat dishes for x days, or the opposite of only eating meat dishes for x days!)

 

They have talked quite a bit about adding in animal farming/ husbandry, and it’s something that is asked for a fair bit from what I’ve seen. Despite the fact that there are perks for animal tracking, increased yield, and even the “hunter” books that make it more efficient. Why? Because it adds more to the game. 
 

I see new improvements and implementations for crop and fruit farming as no different than that. Especially when it’s things that make sense.

[TWORDY]

6 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

So, if players are stuck doing the same exact thing with every play through without variance, then they are likely going to lose playerbase fairly rapidly. 

 

There are multiple creative ways to obtain food. Almost every class has food-related perks except for Intellect. I do not see a reason for any buffs or reworks currently. I am playing with a group of people in Warrior with 100% loot and in early-mid-game we have zero problems with food supply.

 

If you for example add apples in Green Biome/Forest then any other biome would need something else to be added to the mix as well. Like some citruses or grapes in the Desert, no idea. Snow biome dunno what. So what next, adding wheat and flower production for bread instead of corn? But again, with more items added to the game, then there is a need for more slots in the backpack.

 

I am for adding stuff but breeding animals in real-time with 3D models will only add to the server lag, and make hunting with looting completely irrelevant for supplies. Then players would have to feed the animals or pay for their upkeep to make things right. I am not sure if all of us would like to go down this path. It is a zombie apocalypse so such farms would attract lots of enemies. I would be only for some animal companions, but pathing is the culprit in the voxel game with destructible environments. 

 

Greenhouses as POI, why not. Greenhouses as functional player blocks instead of pre-made POIs, unrealistic in my humble opinion. 

Edited August 27 by TWORDY (see edit history)

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

Following your logic, there is absolutely no point of using the forums. That they already know exactly what they are going to do, how they are going to do it, and aren’t going to take into account anything we suggest.

 

I would hope that is NOT the case, and given some of the things they have implemented, I would say these devs actually listen to players.

 

No, following my logic there is a point, but at this late stage of development an idea must be exceptionally good AND new(!), or actually solve a problem some way they haven't thought of to make an impact. Water irrigation, apple trees and improved workstations have not only been suggested in the years before but even implemented in mods already. So I would think they would have done that already if they had seen the need.

 

6 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

The game itself only has so much in it. Play through, max out, restart. Not much to it unless you enjoy getting creative with building or doing roleplay. 
Now, I’ve heard they intend to add some kind of story in, and I hope that is true, but until then, there is only the creative and RP elements.

 

So, if players are stuck doing the same exact thing with every play through without variance, then they are likely going to lose playerbase fairly rapidly. 
 

With the suggestions that I am making here (and other posts) enables players to have more of that needed variance in their games. You may not be able to envision it right away, but given enough time I think you would.

 

What you suggested is for example irrigation. I have played a mod with irrigation. It had the obvious rule of farm block must be less than x blocks away form the water to work. Now that was really trivial to achieve by adding canals every few blocks and putting water in there. The optimal or at least sufficient solution is obvious and banal. In other words, just more trivial work that would have to be done every game the same to get the better farming results. Yes, I don't see the variance or fun in that.

 

6 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

CURRENTLY, farming is a pretty cut and dry aspect of the game. Farms are generally either built in a meta underground way or as large mega farms separate from the main base. 

 

Actually they once had it that zombies that walked over plants actually destroyed them. THAT was a slightly more interesting way for farming as you actually had to protect the farm. But they removed it.

 

6 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

...

 

They have talked quite a bit about adding in animal farming/ husbandry

 

Thats news to me. Maybe years ago, but at least since A15 when I started reading the forum I haven't noticed any interest from TFP into animal husbandry.

 

6 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

and it’s something that is asked for a fair bit from what I’ve seen. Despite the fact that there are perks for animal tracking, increased yield, and even the “hunter” books that make it more efficient. Why? Because it adds more to the game. 
 

I see new improvements and implementations for crop and fruit farming as no different than that. Especially when it’s things that make sense.

 

Well, if TFP shares your opinion, we will see it in 7d2d eventually.

 

Edited August 27 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

44 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Thats news to me. Maybe years ago, but at least since A15 when I started reading the forum I haven't noticed any interest from TFP into animal husbandry.

In fact, they've specifically said it's not going to happen.

[Riamus]

Yeah, animal husbandry is a definite no from the devs.  They even stated that in one of the 1.0 dev streams.  Not sure where you think they talked a lot about adding it.  Maybe you are referring to players suggesting it? 

 

Farming is hardly time consuming.  I normally play two players, so yes, it is less food use than 4 players, but you would expect it to be around half.  I can get by quite easily with a 6 plot farm.  If I want to really load up on food, I might bump that to 9, but I usually don't unless I get an air drop with a farm bundle that has the farm plots.  I can even get by quite well with 6 plots and only 2 points in LotL.  With 3 points, it is incredibly easy with only 6 plots.  We do a decent amount of looting, so we get a lot of the vegetables along the way, especially corn.  I often can just plant potatoes and mushrooms and not need anything else (potatoes in the plots, mushrooms on the front side).  When you aren't having to craft seeds too much because of a higher perk level, it is easy to just click each plot as you walk down the row and then click each again to plant.  Even if that took 2 seconds each (I probably average two per second, so 2 seconds each is a lot), a 6 plot farm with mushrooms on the side is 12 clicks to harvest, 12 clicks to plant... 48 seconds.  If you are slow crafting seeds, maybe you spend a minute on that, though it should take under 15 seconds.  You are still less than 2 minutes every 2 hours... Under 4 minutes for 4 people compared to my 2 people.  The reality is that I can harvest and replant 9 plots with mushrooms on the side in under 15 seconds without even trying.

 

Now, if we ignore that it takes basically no time unless you feel the need to have a huge farm for some reason, the next issue is food amounts.  With just 6 plots, I can easily feed 2 people.  With 12, you should easily feed 4.  If you want to feed more, you just add more plots.  If you want to harvest more frequently, you plant at different times, though there isn't any reason to do that.  Farming has no actual limit to how much you can produce other than space for the farm.  That means you can already easily have an overabundance of cooked food with really little effort.  Often, it is the animal fat that slows cooking down more than crops.  What we don't need is to increase the speed of farming.  It is already fast enough.  We don't need it to act like dew collectors do now, where you can get so much water so quickly with the mods installed that you actually have to stop collecting water before very long unless you are crafting a ton of stuff that needs glue.  Making farming the same isn't a good option.  I already stop farming at a certain point because I have so much food made.

 

What you want is to add more stuff to complicate farming because you want it to be faster, when it really isn't needed.  Farming used to be more complicated and some people did like that, but most people just want to get it done and go on about their business without extra work, including crafting extra stuff to speed it up.

 

Definitely not worth adding.  And there are many other things I would like to see first even if they did add it.

 

What you suggest sounds fine for a mod, just not for vanilla.  I think the only thing I might suggest they change is to make the angles glass roof panels that are clearly intended at least partly for greenhouses is to make them count as open air for purposes of farming so that you could place plots into a greenhouse structure is you wanted that look without having to leave an opening so things will grow.  Maybe that is already a thing (I haven't tried), but if not, I think that would be nice.

Edited August 28 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

Just as an aside, I only play solo and I usually build a 400 plot farm (25 plots per item with a couple left over that I plant extra potatoes/mushrooms usually...and yes I know mushroom don't need a plot, it's an aesthetic thing.)  Harvesting and replanting that farm doesn't really seem like it takes that long to me, and I obviously pretty quickly end up with thousands of vegetables that I don't really have much use for, it's just habit at this point.

[Suxar]

14 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

The other guy even mentioned that the foods are still fairly limited in all reality. Why not add some more stuff that will keep it interesting (maybe someone wants to roleplay as a vegetarian or they even add in more challenges like eating no meat dishes for x days, or the opposite of only eating meat dishes for x days!)

 

If I want to play around with food and cultures, I'll fire up Stardew Valley. I want to kill zombies there.

 

8 hours ago, TWORDY said:

It is a zombie apocalypse so such farms would attract lots of enemies.

It makes sense. In open spaces, zombies and animals attack each other.

 

6 hours ago, Riamus said:

I think the only thing I might suggest they change is to make the angles glass roof panels that are clearly intended at least partly for greenhouses is to make them count as open air for purposes of farming so that you could place plots into a greenhouse structure is you wanted that look without having to leave an opening so things will grow. 

Why leave holes? Everything grows beautifully under a glass roof. Here https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/36939-post-your-base/?do=findComment&comment=566499 this is exactly what is done. Armored glass(Bulletproof Glass Block) is used.

[Suxar]

6 hours ago, Riamus said:

Farming used to be more complicated and some people did like that, but most people just want to get it done and go on about their business without extra work, including crafting extra stuff to speed it up.

When I started playing, it was simpler. There were already blocks for planting, but after harvesting, there was a sprout left. There was no need to plant the plants again.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Suxar said:

When I started playing, it was simpler. There were already blocks for planting, but after harvesting, there was a sprout left. There was no need to plant the plants again.

Yes, that is a pain that could easily be removed again.  Prior to that, farming was apparently more involved (I never played those versions, so don't have personal experience with it and am just going by what people have talked about here).

[GuardianReaper0]

6 hours ago, Suxar said:

When I started playing, it was simpler. There were already blocks for planting, but after harvesting, there was a sprout left. There was no need to plant the plants again.

That would be nice. I’m not saying my full list needs to make it to the game. However there are definitely improvements and/or additions that could be made.

[BFT2020]

if you are going to add irrigation, then you need to add the requirement that the farm plots should be a certain moisture level to grow.  Then once you add that, you now need to add how weather affects the plots - so rain you don't have to do anything but dry spells you do.

 

TBH, those things are fine in farming simulator games, but not necessary in a zombie survival game.  It's fine for a mod, but nothing I would want in this game as vanilla - and I play farming simulator games

 

Every playthrough I always have a farm and I play SP, so this has been my experience with farming in game.

• On harvest day, make sure my inventory is clutter free and go to my farm area.
• Grab the seeds from the box I have placed there
• Harvest the plants
• Put the seeds in my hotbar
• Plant the new seeds in the plots
• Put the excess seeds back into the box at the farm
• Empty out the dew collectors while I am there
• Place my harvest in my food crates

This is typically done during the night and doesn't really take much time.  Add the fact that the plants are ready for harvest every 3 days? and you are not doing this very often.  Also for reference, I usually strive to have a minimum of 4 plots per seed type, so 40+ plots is typically by mid-game.  I tend to plant all the crops.

[Syphon583]

21 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

TBH, those things are fine in farming simulator games

Hell, not even the Farming Simulator requires you to water your crops. They grow at the same rate regardless of weather (at least in FS22. Who knows what FS25 will do)

[Riamus]

9 hours ago, Suxar said:

Why leave holes? Everything grows beautifully under a glass roof. Here https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/36939-post-your-base/?do=findComment&comment=566499 this is exactly what is done. Armored glass(Bulletproof Glass Block) is used.

Good to know that it works.  Like I said, I hadn't tried it.  My farm is always on my roof with my dew collectors for convenience.

[GuardianReaper0]

4 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

if you are going to add irrigation, then you need to add the requirement that the farm plots should be a certain moisture level to grow.  Then once you add that, you now need to add how weather affects the plots - so rain you don't have to do anything but dry spells you do.

 

TBH, those things are fine in farming simulator games, but not necessary in a zombie survival game.  It's fine for a mod, but nothing I would want in this game as vanilla - and I play farming simulator games

 

Every playthrough I always have a farm and I play SP, so this has been my experience with farming in game.

• On harvest day, make sure my inventory is clutter free and go to my farm area.
• Grab the seeds from the box I have placed there
• Harvest the plants
• Put the seeds in my hotbar
• Plant the new seeds in the plots
• Put the excess seeds back into the box at the farm
• Empty out the dew collectors while I am there
• Place my harvest in my food crates

This is typically done during the night and doesn't really take much time.  Add the fact that the plants are ready for harvest every 3 days? and you are not doing this very often.  Also for reference, I usually strive to have a minimum of 4 plots per seed type, so 40+ plots is typically by mid-game.  I tend to plant all the crops.

As I stated in the suggestion, irrigation would be an OPTION not a requirement. By no means does it need all the other stuff you said. 
 

As someone that GREW UP farming, rather than just played a simulator, I will tell you that in many types of crops irrigation can help increase yield, even though rainfall is technically enough to keep it alive. 
So I wanted to suggest something similar here, as it genuinely makes sense.