V1.1 b4 EXP

[DickJustice]

8 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Which ones require a new game?  I would need to look back over them, but I don't think many beyond POI would.

 

I will say I was under the impression that a restart concerned bug fixes and other updates - if they don't, and it's just the POI stuff, then a post with detailed instructions on how to troubleshoot this by a member of the team would go a long way towards resolving this concern. What you mentioned about the chunk reset and world editor is still more work than a paying customer would have to do - and as kind as your advice is, it'd be nice to get it from a dev member as well, in an official capacity which addresses the issue.

 

Like I said, a lot of great, hard, long work has clearly been put into this game - why leave anything unresolved. Takes but one post to assuage these doubts for PC players.

Edited August 8 by DickJustice (see edit history)

[Riamus]

23 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

 

Sure they matter. But this game has been in early release for PC players for over 10 years. Formal or not, 1.0 is a milestone for PC players. A long-awaited "I don't have to restart anymore to miss out on content" sorta thing. If you go "do console players' opinions matter", you have to say the same for PC players.

Of course PC players matter (I am one).  But what issue do you think matters more?  Console: I can't play the game at all for another couple years because it can't be released on console until 1.0, or PC: I have to start a new game whenever I feel like getting the latest content?

20 minutes ago, DED-EFIM said:

yes but there are 15 or more traders on the map and nothing prevents you from buying them all, besides I showed what the merchant immediately offers at the first stage of the game, and this is not a little

On day one or for a while after, no player can hit every trader on the map because they don't know where they are located and the distance is such that getting to them without a vehicle isn't really an option within the reset timeframe.  Also, you mentioned a server.  If everyone is buying magazines, no one is getting all of them from every trader.

14 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

 

I will say I was under the impression that a restart concerned bug fixes and other updates - if they don't, and it's just the POI stuff, then a post with detailed instructions on how to troubleshoot this by a member of the team would go a long way towards resolving this concern. What you mentioned about the chunk reset and world editor is still more work than a paying customer would have to do - and as kind as your advice is, it'd be nice to get it from a dev member as well, in an official capacity which addresses the issue.

 

Like I said, a lot of great, hard, long work has clearly been put into this game - why leave anything unresolved. Takes but one post to assuage these doubts for PC players.

I just looked over the changes and unless I missed something, I don't think anything but POI would require a new save.  Maybe a dev will get around to saying the same, but they don't post all the time and other than faatal and Laz Man, their responses are generally short as they have other things to work on.  Could they give better replies with more details?  Absolutely.  But if you have been playing this long, I'm sure you've seen that they don't normally do so.  I would expect them to change. 

 

I know chunk reset and world editor aren't what most players will do.  On the other hand, most players aren't going to be upset that they are missing some POI until their next game.  In fact, most maps do not include every POI to begin with.  I just offered those options for anyone who really wants the latest POI without staying a new game.

 

Also keep in mind that unlike most games that you play one game and then not again for a period of time (often a year or more), this game you are likely playing new games regularly.  Most players aren't going past day 50-75 or so unless they are on a persistent server.  This means you will get the new content before long even if you wait until your current game ends.

Edited August 8 by Riamus (see edit history)

[DickJustice]

3 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Of course PC players matter (I am one).  But what issue do you think matters more?  Console: I can't play the game at all for another couple years because it can't be released on console until 1.0, or PC: I have to start a new game whenever I feel like getting the latest content?

 

I think you're making it a binary one or the other sort of issue when it doesn't have to be. Console players' experience will matter to the Fun Pimps but so should that of PC players' - find the middle ground. Explain these concerns to the customer. Communicate with the customer. Explain exactly, concisely, clearly, what content a PC player is missing if they don't restart the game - and what workarounds are available. Make it clear for how long this will be. Explain that although 1.0 out of early access is being done - it's not yet final and many more updates will come, this way you avoid obvious misconceptions that are really on the dev, not loyal PC customers who have stuck with the game for long. Concerns like "1.0 is not actually 1.0".

 

If I don't come here to the 7daystodie website, and I get all my update information from the Steam page, I am simply not informed. As a paying customer this is unacceptable.

 

And you're also downplaying these valid concerns.

 

Quote

I have to start a new game whenever I feel like getting the latest content?

 

It's not that I "feel like" the latest content - it's supposed to be included in the package. It's not alpha anymore. You appear to have a different relationship with the product, where these things don't matter as much to you, and you hang out in these forums and are knowledgeable enough to know about chunk reset and world editor - I'm not. It's not my job.

[FranticDan]

3 hours ago, schwanz9000 said:

Could you give some examples, especially those that "ruin the game"?

To me, there's one questionable price for the economy, and that is the price of 7500 for a water filter, which is the weakest of the 3 dew collector tools. IMO, the filter is now worth less than what it was in A21 (2250) due to its sole use of only saving you some wood for boiling the water yourself. 

[DickJustice]

34 minutes ago, Riamus said:

I know chunk reset and world editor aren't what most players will do.  On the other hand, most players aren't going to be upset that they are missing some POI until their next game.  

 

I don't know that you can really say with verifiable accuracy that most players won't be upset - to be told you need to restart right after beginning a 1.0 non-early-release game means there's something that should've been communicated that wasn't. It's that simple. It's not about qualifying how bad the issue is - whether it's only POI, whether the lack of a proper 1.0 is for console players, whether this or that. There was a lack of basic customer communication.

 

Plus, if you go into the Steam page, look for the latest 1.1 announcement post and browse the comments, you can see there are many users voicing these concerns.

[Riamus]

26 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

 

I think you're making it a binary one or the other sort of issue when it doesn't have to be. 

 

It's not that I "feel like" the latest content - it's supposed to be included in the package. It's not alpha anymore. You appear to have a different relationship with the product, where these things don't matter as much to you, and you hang out in these forums and are knowledgeable enough to know about chunk reset and world editor - I'm not. It's not my job.

It is binary in a way. If they can't release console without it being 1.0, then their only choice is don't release or change the version to 1.0 earlier than intended.  I wasn't saying they could only care about one or the other, but when it is an "either or" choice, it isn't surprising they would choose to release to console.

 

As far as the new content being included... It is.  But you need a new game for it to be there.  Towns aren't going to just update to add new POI in the middle of your game. 

 

But in any case, there really isn't much else I can say.  The devs aren't going to be more communicative than they've been for years and some updates require a new save.  That also won't change.  I wish I could offer some better news on those, but that's really just how things are regarding these.  I've given what I can to help and clarified some stuff.  I'll let others respond now if they want, though not sure what else can really be said. 

 

Remember that most devs do not give much of any explanation for their design choices or even respond to forum posts, so TFP is actually doing better than most.  Of course there are some devs who do an amazing job with that, but they are few and far between.  Hoping or expecting all devs to be like that is futile.  Personally, I just accept how they are and not let it bother me.  Life is too short.

[DickJustice]

Just now, Riamus said:

It is binary in a way. If they can't release console without it being 1.0, then their only choice is don't release or change the version to 1.0 earlier than intended.  I wasn't saying they could only care about one or the other, but when it is an "either or" choice, it isn't surprising they would choose to release to console.

 

I mean binary in the sense of shafting console or PC players. I agree from a business standpoint it makes sense to prioritize a console launch. The issue is when you don't clearly communicate the implications to PC players.

 

Quote

But in any case, there really isn't much else I can say.  The devs aren't going to be more communicative than they've been for years and some updates require a new save.  That also won't change.  I wish I could offer some better news on those, but that's really just how things are regarding these.  I've given what I can to help and clarified some stuff.  I'll let others respond now if they want, though not sure what else can really be said. 

 

Remember that most devs do not give much of any explanation for their design choices or even respond to forum posts, so TFP is actually doing better than most.  Of course there are some devs who do an amazing job with that, but they are few and far between.  Hoping or expecting all devs to be like that is futile.  Personally, I just accept how they are and not let it bother me.  Life is too short.

 

I think looking at the other dev to say "well they don't provide good customer service, we are great by comparison" is not really it - you act in accordance with acceptable standards, not somebody else's.

 

In any event, yes, making the roadmap public and continually updating is pretty good. Like I said from my very first post - I have much appreciation for the work done and the product that the devs have delivered over the years.

 

But this is a really basic concern which must be addressed. It just has to be. It's a minimum standard to keep a customer appraised of important developments in advance like "1.0 isn't 1.0" and more restarts will be required - and the necessary workarounds. It takes no more than one post to do this - so I don't really see the "devs don't talk much beyond updates" point.

 

And to be honest I'm not really bothered, just disappointed. You can say "life is too short" while at the same time addressing valid and basic concerns. 

 

Whatever the case may be, I appreciate your attempts to offer insight. Regards.

[DED-EFIM]

58 minutes ago, Riamus said:

On day one or for a while after, no player can hit every trader on the map because they don't know where they are located and the distance is such that getting to them without a vehicle isn't really an option within the reset timeframe.  Also, you mentioned a server.  If everyone is buying magazines, no one is getting all of them from every trader.

yes but you forget that I was talking specifically about the server and players trade them at a low price because it is initially low

[Riamus]

3 minutes ago, DED-EFIM said:

yes but you forget that I was talking specifically about the server and players trade them at a low price because it is initially low

But you still have a limited number.  I don't think this is really a problem, and if it is on a given server, that price is really changed and doesn't require the change to be installed on client computers.  Prices shouldn't be balanced just for more extreme cases but for the average players.  Most are not getting maxed out quickly just because the price is 300.  In fact, most complaints here relating to magazines are that they advance too slowly.

[Cr0wst0rm]

Calling this 1.1 is like adding insult to an injury.

[DED-EFIM]

9 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Most are not getting maxed out quickly just because the price is 300.  In fact, most complaints here relating to magazines are that they advance too slowly.

slowly? with a certain skill by level 40 I had, for example, a crucible without problems, without buying a single one magazine

amount of loot 0.75

Edited August 8 by DED-EFIM (see edit history)

[Riamus]

39 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

 

I mean binary in the sense of shafting console or PC players. I agree from a business standpoint it makes sense to prioritize a console launch. The issue is when you don't clearly communicate the implications to PC players.

 

 

I think looking at the other dev to say "well they don't provide good customer service, we are great by comparison" is not really it - you act in accordance with acceptable standards, not somebody else's.

 

In any event, yes, making the roadmap public and continually updating is pretty good. Like I said from my very first post - I have much appreciation for the work done and the product that the devs have delivered over the years.

 

But this is a really basic concern which must be addressed. It just has to be. It's a minimum standard to keep a customer appraised of important developments in advance like "1.0 isn't 1.0" and more restarts will be required - and the necessary workarounds. It takes no more than one post to do this - so I don't really see the "devs don't talk much beyond updates" point.

 

And to be honest I'm not really bothered, just disappointed. You can say "life is too short" while at the same time addressing valid and basic concerns. 

 

Whatever the case may be, I appreciate your attempts to offer insight. Regards.

Ok... I'll address this quickly.  Heh.  Can't seem to help myself. 

 

The standard in the game industry is unfortunately that game devs normally do not give detailed explanations.  I'm not saying that is good, but it is normal.  Being better than normal is still a good thing, even if it isn't as good as you might want.  Just my view on it. 

 

Now, I know the devs really don't post much at all on Steam.  That could certainly be improved.  But in here, in the update threads and dev threads, they have answered these questions.  When 1.0 was first announced, they told us before it was released.  I made my opinion on using that version number clear at the time.  They haven't said why it was changed and moved out of early access, but if it is due to console, I'm sure there is an NDA preventing them from saying that it is because of Microsoft or Sony.  Besides, you don't want to upset the people who decide whether or not you can publish the game or what features (like cross play) are allowed. 

 

And they have also said that although they will attempt to not require restarts going forward, they may still be necessary.  Again, that is them relying on this forum, where they do most their talking. 

 

Let me ask something.  What is your average number of days for a game (real time) before starting a new game?  And what would you guess is the number of real days for the normal player (not the ultra casual player who plays a could hours per week or the person playing on a persistent server that had games going hundreds of days, but the normal player)?  I won't give my guess since I don't have proof and you want proof of i guess something.  But what is your guess?  Now, keeping answer that in mind, 1.0 had been out for a couple weeks or so and stable would likely not be for another 2-3 weeks.  Would you say that the majority of players will have started a new game before stable hits?  If so, they could time their restart for when stable hits and get the new content without having to restart.  This doesn't help players who play experimental, of course, but experimental is expected to be not stable.  Just something to consider.

16 minutes ago, DED-EFIM said:

slowly? with a certain skill by level 40 I had, for example, a crucible without problems, without buying a single one magazine

amount of loot 0.75

Loot quantity only affects stacks.  If you would get 1 magazine, you will always get 1 magazine even at minimum loot quantity.  I'm not saying that everyone thinks it is slow.  But just read the magazine threads and you will see that most players complaining about magazines feel it is too slow.  Edit for clarification: if you set loot quantity higher, you will get more.  But you won't get less than 1.  And if you would get 2 of the same magazines, lower loot quantity could change that to 1, but it isn't common to get two of the same magazine in most loot containers.  And for me, I think magazines are at a good progression for the most part with how I play.  Only armor increases too quickly for me.  But I also don't go out of my way to loot all the mailboxes and crack a book store and buy every magazine I can find and I don't think the average player does either.  I also don't think that a single magazine is worth more than 300.  I don't even take a single magazine as a reward unless there isn't anything better.  This is really something best adjusted by a server that has this problem rather than for the normal game.

Edited August 8 by Riamus (see edit history)

[AndySinx]

So cool TFP are supporting mods with this game, BUT I would love to find a forum where Modders (such as myself) can contact the devs with queries to fix their code.  For example, my mod for A21 worked as intended, but my Particle Effects don't work for V1.0.  If only I could contact someone to understand what the solution is ... ?

[Riamus]

22 minutes ago, AndySinx said:

So cool TFP are supporting mods with this game, BUT I would love to find a forum where Modders (such as myself) can contact the devs with queries to fix their code.  For example, my mod for A21 worked as intended, but my Particle Effects don't work for V1.0.  If only I could contact someone to understand what the solution is ... ?

Try asking on the mods discussions and requests forum.  You will probably get an answer to whatever questions you have.  The devs may not help you fix your code (they have other things to work on), but other modders will.

Edited August 8 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Cr0wst0rm]

23 minutes ago, AndySinx said:

So cool TFP are supporting mods with this game, BUT I would love to find a forum where Modders (such as myself) can contact the devs with queries to fix their code.  For example, my mod for A21 worked as intended, but my Particle Effects don't work for V1.0.  If only I could contact someone to understand what the solution is ... ?

The devs are not responsible for your mod breaking. Instead of telling them to fix their code, start with yourself.

[Spacesabre1]

Any News On Console Version Fixes For The Stuttering, Lagging And Freezing.😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥 

[Grandpa Minion]

LOOTCONTAINER BUG

if you seee this error its coming from zombie drop bags | doesn't matter which bag they all 3 started throwing the error- This is not a bug report.... Just info for anyone who sees the error and wonders what it is......... its zombie loot bags. 

024-08-08T01:51:50 730.235 INF EntityLootContainer_OnUpdateEntity_Prefix triggered. 2024-08-08T01:51:50 730.236

INF Entity loot container at position x: 1186.502 y: 35.97656 z

024-08-08T01:51:50 730.235 INF EntityLootContainer_OnUpdateEntity_Prefix triggered. 2024-08-08T01:51:50 730.236

INF Entity loot container at position x: 1186.502 y: 35.97656 z

[Sarakatunga]

mm, the biggest mistake they made here was rushing to release the stable 1.0, they should have left it for 1 more month in experimental haha. Now those of us who have a dedicated server are suffering with the errors of 1.0. Especially with the damn vehicles. 🤣

[Merida_]

Timed charge does zero damage to locked police cars.

 

Even after the sirens go off. Again, the timed charge does very little damage.

 

Is this intended?

 

1 charge should be enough to get the sirens blazing and another charge should shut it off and unlock the car.

 

Keep up the good work.

[Riamus]

47 minutes ago, Merida_ said:

Timed charge does zero damage to locked police cars.

 

Even after the sirens go off. Again, the timed charge does very little damage.

 

Is this intended?

 

1 charge should be enough to get the sirens blazing and another charge should shut it off and unlock the car.

 

Keep up the good work.

They were looking into making it so cops aren't blowing up stuff like the cars in one shot.  Maybe they made a change and that's effected those charges.

[AndySinx]

9 hours ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

The devs are not responsible for your mod breaking. Instead of telling them to fix their code, start with yourself.

My bad. I meant to type '...fix MY code'.  I am not expecting them to change their code.

I posted my problem here.... but haven't found a solution as yet....

9 hours ago, Riamus said:

Try asking on the mods discussions and requests forum.  You will probably get an answer to whatever questions you have.  The devs may not help you fix your code (they have other things to work on), but other modders will.

Tried that.  No solution as yet...

 

[YourMirror]

8 hours ago, Grandpa Minion said:

LOOTCONTAINER BUG

if you seee this error its coming from zombie drop bags | doesn't matter which bag they all 3 started throwing the error- This is not a bug report.... Just info for anyone who sees the error and wonders what it is......... its zombie loot bags. 

024-08-08T01:51:50 730.235 INF EntityLootContainer_OnUpdateEntity_Prefix triggered. 2024-08-08T01:51:50 730.236

INF Entity loot container at position x: 1186.502 y: 35.97656 z

024-08-08T01:51:50 730.235 INF EntityLootContainer_OnUpdateEntity_Prefix triggered. 2024-08-08T01:51:50 730.236

INF Entity loot container at position x: 1186.502 y: 35.97656 z

Looks like a rogue harmony patch. Contact the maker i would say.

[Suxar]

11 hours ago, Riamus said:

Edit for clarification: if you set loot quantity higher, you will get more.  But you won't get less than 1.

You are wrong. I played with the loot setting 0.8, empty nests or empty mailboxes are a fairly common occurrence.

[Roland]

7 hours ago, Merida_ said:

Timed charge does zero damage to locked police cars.

 

Even after the sirens go off. Again, the timed charge does very little damage.

 

Is this intended?

 

1 charge should be enough to get the sirens blazing and another charge should shut it off and unlock the car.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

In my experience, the siren goes off at the moment the lock is broken. There should be no need for a second charge. Without a timed charge, just pounding the police car with a pickaxe, the lock breaks then the alarm goes off, then you kill all the spawns, then you go to the car and open it. The siren never goes off before the lock breaks so if you use a timed charge and it makes the siren go off then that should mean that the lock ought to be broken.

[GigglingZombie]

For a game that has awesome re-playability (in fact to me it's one of the only games i have played that is so replayable), restarting progress would not be an issue to me. All the time i've played it, i've never had a need to restart before i was planning to, but if i did, it's no biggie to me, all part of the fun, that initial struggle to survive never gets old, and any previous progress was enjoyed, so a potential restart would never be a loss to me either. Just my 5 cents

Edited August 9 by GigglingZombie (see edit history)