The Poi "problem"

[pApA^LeGBa]

Reaching T2 quests we either had them really far away, or it was one of the 5 "A sewage problem" POI´s that we have within 600m around our starting trader.

 

How about a limit how often a POI can spawn on a map depending on map size? With a minimum distance from each other.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Reaching T2 quests we either had them really far away, or it was one of the 5 "A sewage problem" POI´s that we have within 600m around our starting trader.

 

How about a limit how often a POI can spawn on a map depending on map size? With a minimum distance from each other.

You can set that in rwgmixer easily and POI already have a minimum distance from each other as of A21.  However, if nothing else can go there, it will not leave the area blank and will put something there even if it is too close. 

 

But what you are seeing might already be fixed for the next version.  If you are in the forest, those towns currently have limited variety because of the district being used.  The next version will add a partial rural outskirt district around those towns, adding a lot more variety.

Edited July 18 by Riamus (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

That minimum distance sure does live up to it´s name. It´s 1.0 and a 10K map but yet we had those 5 with in on kilometer of each other.

[Riamus]

15 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

That minimum distance sure does live up to it´s name. It´s 1.0 and a 10K map but yet we had those 5 with in on kilometer of each other.

I don't know that every POI has a minimum value set.  You'd need to check the XML for that POI to see what the value (if any) is set to.  Still, like I mentioned, if nothing can go there when following the restrictions (like duplicate distance), then something will still get placed there even if it doesn't follow those restrictions.  That can allow POI to be too close.

[pApA^LeGBa]

I highly doubt that all 5 places can only take that certain POI. It´s nothing special. A house. There is a bunch of houses that would fit there.

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

That minimum distance sure does live up to it´s name. It´s 1.0 and a 10K map but yet we had those 5 with in on kilometer of each other.

 

Duplicates spacing should see an improvement in the next update I believe.

[zztong]

5 hours ago, Riamus said:

I don't know that every POI has a minimum value set.  You'd need to check the XML for that POI to see what the value (if any) is set to.

 

IIRC, the default Duplicate Repeat Distance is 300 if not overridden by the POI's XML.

 

My understanding is that V1.0 RWG is loathe to leave a POI Marker empty and that it will ignore the Duplicate Repeat Distance if it has to. I've not heard if it ignores the weight/bias system. I know the density calculations can lead to a reduced number of viable POI selections as it imposes an additional constraint -- I need a POI with less than X vertices -- though I thought that was mostly a downtown and commercial issue. I wouldn't have expected that to come into play with countrytown or countryresidential districts.

 

15 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

POI´s that we have within 600m around our starting trader.

 

Just curious, why is 600m significant? Is that an arbitrary distance for "too far away?"

 

Since Traders end up on Gateway Tiles for Country Town, they're usually at the edge of town. I wonder if parts of the town are further away than 600m.

 

I've been puzzling over people's reactions to the biome progression and the notion of only having Country Towns in the early biomes. I've wondered if perhaps The Forest should not have any settlement and just have Wilderness POIs. That would put Trader Rekt out in the boondocks and all the missions probably farther away. I'm guessing that wouldn't be popular?

Edited July 19 by zztong (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

2 hours ago, zztong said:

I've been puzzling over people's reactions to the biome progression and the notion of only having Country Towns in the early biomes. I've wondered if perhaps The Forest should not have any settlement and just have Wilderness POIs. That would put Trader Rekt out in the boondocks and all the missions probably farther away. I'm guessing that wouldn't be popular?

 

For some, that would probably be a cool idea.  I remember one A21 playthrough I did where the first 4 or 5 days I just ended up raiding wilderness POIs as I kept looking for the  nearest town (I canceled the starting quest).  Travel distance though would probably turn a lot of people off, especially if they have a >1.0 km one way travel distance to the mission area.  And for those that are looking to speed through trader progression, I doubt they would even consider playing it that way.  A starter bike might make some people try this out.

 

Me personally I am fine with the small country towns in the Pine Forest biome, but then again I grew up in a small town so I saw the same "POIs" for years prior to 7 Days to Die  😉

[8_Hussars]

18 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Reaching T2 quests we either had them really far away, or it was one of the 5 "A sewage problem" POI´s that we have within 600m around our starting trader.

 

How about a limit how often a POI can spawn on a map depending on map size? With a minimum distance from each other.

It could be argued that its really a quest problem and not a POI problem.  If players were not seeking quests it likely would go unnoticed.  If players had five Crack-A-Book remnants in the area, would the concern be the same?  We have multiple instances of the same coffee and fast food outlets in close proximity all over the place...

Having said that, I get it.  Players want relatively close and different POIs to quest.  I am happy to roll with whatever idiosyncrasies RWG produces; for both my convenience and inconvenience, but that is not to everyone's taste.

 

16 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

A starter bike might make some people try this out.

The trader quests for a guaranteed bike reward; seems like such an essential path and anti-sandbox way to restrict and direct progress.      

As much as I like to grind the early stages; bicycles should be found in the wild or the parts should be found/looted prolifically in the wild to assemble one early.  They should be the default travel level.  (restrict storage to a saddlebag mod, a Handlebar bag mod, and offer an electric mod to save stamina)
 

Edited July 19 by 8_Hussars (see edit history)

[zztong]

1 hour ago, 8_Hussars said:

As much as I like to grind the early stages; bicycles should be found in the wild or the parts should be found/looted prolifically in the wild to assemble one early.

 

I can sort-of go along with this. There are bikes all over the place. Just like cookpots, many houses have more than one, they're pretty durable, and in the last-minute panic of a zombie apocalypse they're probably not what most people packed up in their mad dash to evacuate.

 

The complication is with the start of "you've been dropped naked in the woods", to start with a bike you've probably got to find one early, or I guess the trader could give you one of those in addition to the shovel at the start.

 

So, Forest start, no settlement in the Forest, Trader Rekt and Wilderness POIs, but for your first mission you get a shovel and a bike?

Edited July 19 by zztong (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

@8_Hussars It doesn´t matter wich POI, 5 of the same all under 600m away from the trader shouldn´t happen. But that is already on the to do list for the next update, so it should be good in the future.

 

@zztong the 600m is the one that is the furthest away from the trader of all five.

Edited July 19 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[zztong]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

the 600m is the one that is the furthest away from the trader of all five.

 

Oh, oh, I see now. I didn't really grok that they were all the same POI.

[Riamus]

4 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@8_Hussars It doesn´t matter wich POI, 5 of the same all under 600m away from the trader shouldn´t happen. But that is already on the to do list for the next update, so it should be good in the future.

 

@zztong the 600m is the one that is the furthest away from the trader of all five.

I would point out that the distance restriction for POI placement is 300m by default from what ZZTong said.  If you put a POI 600m East, West, North, and South of the trader and one next to the trader, they are all easily over 300m apart.  In fact, you could fit more than 5 within 600m of the trader and still be over 300m apart.  Now, I don't know if the ones you see are within 300m of one another or not, but the 600m does allow 5+ while following the restrictions.

 

But from a player perspective, even if they are spread out in that way, they seem too close and repetitive.  Maybe the changes LazMan spoke of will help with that.  The only other thing I can think of besides increasing the default distance (which can cause other issues) or creating enough new POI that it is less likely to happen (which is time consuming) would be to allow setting a limit of X number of the same POI in the same town.  That could be an option in RWG, a default value, and/or a rwgmixer parameter.