Unamelable Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 We have a bunch of traps we can use. The zombies, in many cases, go straight through. The game doesn't allow you to build without pillars underneath. And all defense items are spending good chunk of resources. Walls will have to be built anyway due to AI specifics. The player cannot build an effective defense in water/air. Therefore, wall defense is a strong priority. Basement/Mineries are vulnerable to the zombies. But they can serve as a great place to save space for defense perimeter or to be "plan C" if you @%$# up really bad. Of course I blood moon is not hard to pass on random POIs if you don't feel like repairing the base. But now we'll see how good a base you can put together to beat back the Red Moon at home at maximal security. - Wooden spikes are very fragile. It is useless to put them in the main defense. - Iron spikes, works the same way but has more HP, but still during the same Blood Moon is a one-time defense - Spinning blades are very effective on a 3x3 area if the base has a larger diameter. They become electrically irrelevant. Neither are durable - Barbed Wire is a slow-motion item that gives you time to kill. It has no active damage output. - Electric Fence have unlimited health on action and an effective slow-motion that deals damage. But it is still vulnerable as it can be an obstacle, and you need to keep an eye on its health. - The dart box is mostly useless in a wide open defense. Since it shoots in one block, and to set up a block defense you have to sacrifice a lot of resources. Against the backdrop of turrets is not a relevant solution - Landmines are a one-time solution that requires gunpowder and duct tape. Not favorable for crafting even considering the high area damage - Turrets are the best way to defend distance in return for the low FOV of the camera and shotgun/pistol ammo. - Wooden pressure plate is not worth crafting, is a one-time item - Iron pressure plate costs a lot of resources. It consumes a minimum of energy in idle - Stretch works like an electronic fence, only as a trigger. Vulnerable object - Switch operates like On/Off - Motion sensor is an excellent trigger in return for the high consumption as for a trigger. - Drawbridge is an irrelevant solution, because although it is possible to put a clear division by territory. And the area of the bridge is 7x5. But you will definitely not have a need for it. Given that we have strict limits on power consumption. We'll use the generator's resources. The maximum voltage can be 300W. Let's say our house will have a perimeter of 15x15 (bed frame). Defense should be built along the perimeter because of the specifics of AI. The plan will depict an end-game plan since the game does not like players who play the game without careful planning. The idea of relays and pressure plates on the blades didn't work. Since three pressure plates cannot be connected to 1x Blades for some reason. I was able to create a defense out of turrets, blades, and electrical fence. It's worth noting that this plan requires two generators. Since it takes 209W to power all the motion sensors. To conserve energy outside of work. Motion sensors were used throughout. - 4х Relays - 9x Electric fences - 32х Motion sensors - 24х Blade traps - 8x SMG Turrets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFlu Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 5 hours ago, Unamelable said: Since three pressure plates cannot be connected to 1x Blades for some reason. Plate -> Plate -> Plate -> Blade should work, running the Blade with any of Plates. Need to set a few secs of delay to the trigger time. Then again, I'd just run the blades with a switch or a few. Or a single motion sensor per wall, in a corner pointing along the wall. Decent looking starter box, I just wish they'd actually work 😛 The zeds will pile up on one spot and beat through that, making the defenses on the three other walls pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unamelable Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 7 hours ago, theFlu said: Plate -> Plate -> Plate -> Blade should work, running the Blade with any of Plates. Need to set a few secs of delay to the trigger time. Then again, I'd just run the blades with a switch or a few. Or a single motion sensor per wall, in a corner pointing along the wall. Decent looking starter box, I just wish they'd actually work 😛 The zeds will pile up on one spot and beat through that, making the defenses on the three other walls pointless. On the other hand, doing defense only at the entrance is useless. Many zombies just go to break the walls or support points. That's why perimeter defense is mandatory. If you put a trigger on only one slab. You're cutting down on the accuracy of the trigger. So it's better to put 3 plates to trigger on 1 blade. And the problem is that you have to save energy because the Turrels can become inactive due to the fact that there is an energy consumer. For example, the same blades. Therefore, it is necessary to juggle between methods of defense that will work under maximum load (for example, zombies come from three sides). 1x Blades consumes 20W 1x Turrets consumes 15W 1x Camera consumes 5W Assuming we put the camera on one wall (that's 7x Blades). That final consumption will be 140W if the protection on the other side is activated. That's 280. If there is a threat on the third side, the generator will not be able to handle this load. That's without powering the triggers, the electric fence and other cameras. You could certainly put 4 generators on 4 walls for maximum efficiency. But that would be extremely inefficient on the fuel side. And I don't think if you put 4 solar panels the situation will be better. As I understand it, the main thing is to have any fuel consumption. So if there will be 1W or all 300W consumption will be the same. And if we stick to the tactic of four generators on each side. We'll have to build a base in the desert where there is a resource in the form of oil shale. And we're gonna have to mine a lot of it solo. I aim for trap accuracy since that decides on their effectiveness in the long run. Plus I don't think we should forget about adding new turrets. As I realized - at the end of the game we will have a lot of them. So it will be logical to put a huge number of them on defense. And then probably have to put another energy source on blades as we develop defense and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFlu Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 33 minutes ago, Unamelable said: On the other hand, doing defense only at the entrance is useless. Many zombies just go to break the walls or support points. That's why perimeter defense is mandatory. That depends highly on your build. Plenty of builds guide the zeds to a kill area, where you can cover a small, say 6 wide, 2-3 deep kill zone with all your hardware. I don't know if you want me to spoil the basics of those, but Spoiler some of the basic ideas are: - elevation and a ramp up. zeds will not really break blocks at the ground level if they have a way up to your elevated position - moats .. zeds are reluctant to dig horizontally through terrain blocks, so a simple ditch around your base will guide them to come in from where you want - wall thickness. zeds will seek weakest places to break through (in terms of block HP, material type matters); if you double up your walls everywhere else, zeds will cluster at your chosen fighting position. 40 minutes ago, Unamelable said: If you put a trigger on only one slab. You're cutting down on the accuracy of the trigger. So it's better to put 3 plates to trigger on 1 blade. My advice was just to point out that it can be done; as you seemed to claim that you couldn't. Running both, trigger plates and cameras, is absolute overkill though You've built the base in the desert, and at that stage of the game, you should have a chem station; fuel is infinite at that point, just dig some oil shale, cook your own. 24 blades, you'll need two gennies, but you'll run them for 6-7 hours a week. You might have to refuel them every 4-5 hordes or so. I got nothing against over-engineered solutions, I've done plenty myself; just pointing it's rather unnecessary 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_Hussars Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) double post Edited May 13 by 8_Hussars (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_Hussars Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 16 hours ago, Unamelable said: We have a bunch of traps we can use. The zombies, in many cases, go straight through. The game doesn't allow you to build without pillars underneath. And all defense items are spending good chunk of resources. Walls will have to be built anyway due to AI specifics. The player cannot build an effective defense in water/air. Therefore, wall defense is a strong priority. Pillar design for elevated base applications are fairly simple. There are protective actions to take to ensure zombies don't beat on them. A square base receiving zombies from all sides is a resource sink. Basement/Mineries are vulnerable to the zombies. But they can serve as a great place to save space for defense perimeter or to be "plan C" if you @%$# up really bad. Of course I blood moon is not hard to pass on random POIs if you don't feel like repairing the base. But now we'll see how good a base you can put together to beat back the Red Moon at home at maximal security. There are several "standard" base designs both melee, fire arm, and trap based. Hatch hallways, loop bases, and no base horde nights are common. - Wooden spikes are very fragile. It is useless to put them in the main defense. - Iron spikes, works the same way but has more HP, but still during the same Blood Moon is a one-time defense Spikes as a defense for the player correct. Spikes do have a role in defending specific blocks. - Spinning blades are very effective on a 3x3 area if the base has a larger diameter. They become electrically irrelevant. Neither are durable Note that blade traps can be stacked and oriented vertically for more options. - Barbed Wire is a slow-motion item that gives you time to kill. It has no active damage output. - Electric Fence have unlimited health on action and an effective slow-motion that deals damage. But it is still vulnerable as it can be an obstacle, and you need to keep an eye on its health. Unfortunately, electric traps have HP and likely need to be repaired multiple times during a horde night. Electric traps as area defense are generally ineffective. Electric traps to stun lock enemies in place for melee or firearm headshots is glorious. Note that fences be oriented vertically and crosswise for many more options. - The dart box is mostly useless in a wide open defense. Since it shoots in one block, and to set up a block defense you have to sacrifice a lot of resources. Against the backdrop of turrets is not a relevant solution Dart traps are effective if a player controls the zombies approaches. Again, they can be oriented vertically to shoot down or up or down long hallways. - Landmines are a one-time solution that requires gunpowder and duct tape. Not favorable for crafting even considering the high area damage - Turrets are the best way to defend distance in return for the low FOV of the camera and shotgun/pistol ammo. - Wooden pressure plate is not worth crafting, is a one-time item - Iron pressure plate costs a lot of resources. It consumes a minimum of energy in idle - Stretch works like an electronic fence, only as a trigger. Vulnerable object - Switch operates like On/Off - Motion sensor is an excellent trigger in return for the high consumption as for a trigger. - Drawbridge is an irrelevant solution, because although it is possible to put a clear division by territory. And the area of the bridge is 7x5. But you will definitely not have a need for it. Draw bridges can selectively isolate areas of the base, so a player can select the area of engagement or just use as an entry and exit point. Given that we have strict limits on power consumption. We'll use the generator's resources. The maximum voltage can be 300W. Let's say our house will have a perimeter of 15x15 (bed frame). Defense should be built along the perimeter because of the specifics of AI. The plan will depict an end-game plan since the game does not like players who play the game without careful planning. The idea of relays and pressure plates on the blades didn't work. Since three pressure plates cannot be connected to 1x Blades for some reason. Pressure plates are generally bad for horde nights as their HP is low. Perhaps try the 5X1s for your particular configuration. You could just put the blade traps on a switch for horde night, and not rely on them for passive protection. I was able to create a defense out of turrets, blades, and electrical fence. It's worth noting that this plan requires two generators. Since it takes 209W to power all the motion sensors. To conserve energy outside of work. Motion sensors were used throughout. - 4х Relays - 9x Electric fences - 32х Motion sensors - 24х Blade traps - 8x SMG Turrets Just to reiterate the square box base, receiving zombies from all sides, is generally not a preferred base design due to the resources required to build and maintain. Hatch hallways, elevated loop bases, killing corridors, or fighting in the open, or a combination are all generally more viable. Check out below for an evolution from a simple fighting position at one door; to a combination of traps and pathing controls. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riamus Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Yeah, there are many options available for base designs that are very functional. You can do the bunker design where zombies will attack all sides equally, depending where they come from. That requires having traps/defenses surrounding the entire base. For a small base, that's not really a problem. If you want something bigger, it becomes a resource hog for little real value. I've made a wide variety of bases because I enjoy trying new things, even if they don't work. Building the same base over and over gets old really fast. I've had 1m wide paths in some with a dart trap or two at the opposite end so the zombies get hit by a lot of darts to get past the area and that can work really well. I have had bases where zombies need to climb a ladder or staircase and I have a blade trap or two over the opening where they come up so they have to take head and body damage to get past. I've had thin walkways with pits underneath that have some combination of traps and a way back to the surface so they aren't breaking walls to get out if they survive falling into there and then use a sledge turret to knock them off the walkway into the pit. That works really well. There are just so many viable options with the combination of traps available. You just need to think outside the box a bit. I will say that I never craft mines. I'll collect mines whenever I find them in POIs and drop those around my base but that's just for the fun of watching the zombies fly than for any real defense. Though it does make a difference in the earlier part of the horde night. I'll often drop iron spikes around the edge of the base where I don't expect zombies to go so that the few who decide not to follow the expected path will be killed without me having to watch out for them. That saves on repair costs. I also never use sensors on traps, with the exception of pressure plates for dart traps. It is so easy to have enough power to run everything non-stop during horde night without having to refill the generators that there's just no point, imo. I'll use sensors around my normal base but not the horde base. And I might use a switch to turn stuff on or off if my generators are too far away from where I'll be fighting or if my fighting spot is surrounded by traps that I need to have turned off to get in or out. But that's just to turn everything on when horde night starts and then off again when it ends. Not to turn things on and off during horde night. Generally speaking, blade traps and turrets are my main defense, though. Besides the base layout itself. Anything else is just a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unamelable Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 I'm focusing on automated defence since I personally play solo. Of course you can create an example where it would be easier to do damage yourself. But that would be irrelevant since you have 4 sides and you focus on one of them. About the switch to traps - it will only work during blood moon. But you also need to realize that the game has events where we can be attacked by a pack of dogs, zombie migration, or just a couple of annoying screamers. Therefore, we need to think about passive and active defence. Of course you can create a special defence where the zombies won't do damage to the blocks, and will just fall down. But this is more of an exploit than a good defence. And we don't take this method into account. Ideally you can try to make a standing defence that will be protected by turrets, blades and a fence. But the principle will be a little different. And it will technically cost less to renovate since you will have to renovate pillars and the main floor. On this plan you can see that cross-defense has been done on both sides. The triggers are the same motion sensors. The energy efficiency has been reduced to 73W. And most likely two gens will be enough to power all the circuits. This defence is vulnerable to collapse as it stands on pillars. And the least of the problems is the look of the structure, because it looks really ridiculous. I found a block that prevents the player from falling down. And allows you to shoot through it. Only it's gonna make the building look even uglier. But hey, we want the defence to be effective, right? It's starting to look like an exploit, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unamelable Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 52 minutes ago, Riamus said: Building the same base over and over gets old really fast. Personally, I don't care at this stage of the game as I'm looking for ways to maximise the best results with the things that are provided in the game. Ineffective tactics are immediately discarded when the best way becomes public. In short the competitive spirit of the speedrunner. If I want to build, I will focus on the main building rather than defending it. Or build a special point for the blood moon. Eventually wait out the moon in a random POI. Obviously you can't fit into all the requirements where: The base looks neat, base is efficient, base is big, can have passive and active defence for Blood Mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFlu Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 11 minutes ago, Unamelable said: The base looks neat, base is efficient, base is big, can have passive and active defence for Blood Mood. Sounds like a job for Z-Nation FFS! Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unamelable Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 (edited) 12 minutes ago, theFlu said: Sounds like a job for Z-Nation FFS! If you have the desire, you can break mountains. I don't think that in a vanilla game you can turn on YouTube videos or watch the cameras. Although I probably haven't played with the hardware yet. If I were to take on a project of this magnitude. I would easily spend 200-250 hours on a single save (if you count vanilla settings, no mods) Probably to get to that level. You have to build a main base, a blood moon base. Have a pumped progression. And then already think about projects of this magnitude. I did something like that myself in Unturned. but not without editing the world settings. If I feel the grind is starting to get boring. I increase the settings where trees are respawned, more resources are given with zombies. And so on. Otherwise I burn out and no longer have the desire to do the project. And this is my result: Edited May 13 by Unamelable (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_Hussars Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 8 minutes ago, Unamelable said: Personally, I don't care at this stage of the game as I'm looking for ways to maximise the best results with the things that are provided in the game. Ineffective tactics are immediately discarded when the best way becomes public. In short the competitive spirit of the speedrunner. If I want to build, I will focus on the main building rather than defending it. Or build a special point for the blood moon. Eventually wait out the moon in a random POI. Obviously you can't fit into all the requirements where: The base looks neat, base is efficient, base is big, can have passive and active defence for Blood Mood. Kudos if you want to learn as you go. Collectively, we were just trying to let you know there are many other base building techniques and methods, than what you are artificially limiting yourself too. Many of us and others have built and tested efficient, stylish, fun, quirky, and quality bases over the years. There are several efficient afk and almost afk base builds that work flawlessly. Unfortunately, the path you are currently exploring is both inefficient and ineffective. It's a dead end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unamelable Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 I could at this point poke at the fact that the game has a problem with the progression graph. Although this is most likely due to not getting used to the new game and its systems. Although this feeling can be fixed with mods. We still do not have a full-fledged menu of changing the settings of the world from - because of what we have to download mods. or personally change the settings in xml files that is really inconvenient. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riamus Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, Unamelable said: Personally, I don't care at this stage of the game as I'm looking for ways to maximise the best results with the things that are provided in the game. Ineffective tactics are immediately discarded when the best way becomes public. In short the competitive spirit of the speedrunner. If I want to build, I will focus on the main building rather than defending it. Or build a special point for the blood moon. Eventually wait out the moon in a random POI. Obviously you can't fit into all the requirements where: The base looks neat, base is efficient, base is big, can have passive and active defence for Blood Mood. Min/max is great if that's what you enjoy. I prefer having fun trying stuff and even failing. Some great moments in the game come from something going catastrophically wrong unexpectedly. Having the floor fall out from under you during blood moon because you were using a basic POI you found and didn't consider the zombies would break their route to you and end up destroying the floor under you to reach you... that's fun even if you come close to dying from it. When it comes down to it, a min/max approach to this game probably won't be as enjoyable to you as in other games. Yes, you can do it, and many do. But the game isn't really designed for that approach and so many things you might want for that playstyle just aren't there are not set up in a way that easily accommodates it. There are two ways to handle a new game... 1) Play it the way you want it to be played. In this case, if the game isn't set up to work well with that playstyle, you're probably going to be continually annoyed, frustrated, upset about the game and not get a great experience from it. 2) Consider how the game is designed and adjust your playstyle to fit within the game's design. This means being open to adjusting your playstyle and can lead to some new ideas and creativity that you might not get by sticking to one playstyle. On the other hand, the playstyle you are good at might not work well and you'll need to spend time learning and getting used to a new playstyle. Neither option is better than the other. Both have merits and both are valid options. But both also have cons to them and understanding those cons and accepting them is important. Other than using mods, games aren't likely to change just because you want them to, so knowing what works or doesn't work in a game and treating each game as its own game rather than expecting one to be like another will save you a lot of frustration. Regarding base design, if we're talking about efficiency here, there are a number of other options that would be more efficient and use fewer resources than what you have there. Experiment some and you'll find better options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_Hussars Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 44 minutes ago, Unamelable said: Snip I could at this point poke at the fact that the game has a problem with the progression graph. Although this is most likely due to not getting used to the new game and its systems. Back to the frustrated min/maxer angle, I see. sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unamelable Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 2 hours ago, 8_Hussars said: Kudos if you want to learn as you go. Collectively, we were just trying to let you know there are many other base building techniques and methods, than what you are artificially limiting yourself too. Many of us and others have built and tested efficient, stylish, fun, quirky, and quality bases over the years. There are several efficient afk and almost afk base builds that work flawlessly. Unfortunately, the path you are currently exploring is both inefficient and ineffective. It's a dead end. From first one or second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riamus Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) 21 hours ago, Unamelable said: I'm focusing on automated defence since I personally play solo. Of course you can create an example where it would be easier to do damage yourself. But that would be irrelevant since you have 4 sides and you focus on one of them. About the switch to traps - it will only work during blood moon. But you also need to realize that the game has events where we can be attacked by a pack of dogs, zombie migration, or just a couple of annoying screamers. Therefore, we need to think about passive and active defence. Of course you can create a special defence where the zombies won't do damage to the blocks, and will just fall down. But this is more of an exploit than a good defence. And we don't take this method into account. Ideally you can try to make a standing defence that will be protected by turrets, blades and a fence. But the principle will be a little different. And it will technically cost less to renovate since you will have to renovate pillars and the main floor. On this plan you can see that cross-defense has been done on both sides. The triggers are the same motion sensors. The energy efficiency has been reduced to 73W. And most likely two gens will be enough to power all the circuits. This defence is vulnerable to collapse as it stands on pillars. And the least of the problems is the look of the structure, because it looks really ridiculous. I found a block that prevents the player from falling down. And allows you to shoot through it. Only it's gonna make the building look even uglier. But hey, we want the defence to be effective, right? It's starting to look like an exploit, though. Notes on these two images... If you want to build on stilts/pillars, you can certainly do so. There are ways to increase strength of such a build that are good to consider if you choose this route, though. A single 1x1 pillar is weak. Even when you have multiple spaced around the base like this, they're going to be broken quickly and your base will collapse. If you want smaller pillars, use 4 corner poles and rotate them so they appear to be a single pole. This gives a 2x2 of support without looking much different. Or if you want to use cube blocks for a pillar, you can add a plate to each side of the pillar, making it 3x3 (with corners missing) without it looking really any different from one stack of cubes. These will greatly increase the strength of your base and reduce the chance of it collapsing. HOWEVER, if you do not make a path where the zombies can reach you, they will go after your pillars and will eventually bring you down unless you're able to kill them quickly enough to prevent it. And that's usually not going to work well. So it's best to always have a path to you. If you want to have flooring you can shoot through and see through, just use the railing shape. They work very well. Edited May 14 by Riamus (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeliorin Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) This is my easy starter base in my current world. Only day 19 (though I play on 2 hour days). Eventually I could add in a bunch of dart traps, but I'll likely move on to a more permanent base before doing so. Edited May 14 by Vaeliorin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unamelable Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 8 hours ago, Riamus said: Notes on these two images... If you want to build on stilts/pillars, you can certainly do so. There are ways to increase strength of such a build that are good to consider if you choose this route, though. A single 1x1 pillar is week. Even when you have multiple spaced around the base like this, they're going to be broken quickly and your base will collapse. If you want smaller pillars, use 4 corner poles and rotate them so they appear to be a single pole. This gives a 2x2 of support without looking much different. Or if you want to use cube blocks for a pillar, you can add a plate to each side of the pillar, making it 3x3 (with corners missing) without it looking really any different from one stack of cubes. These will greatly increase the strength of your base and reduce the chance of it collapsing. HOWEVER, if you do not make a path where the zombies can reach you, they will go after your pillars and will eventually bring you down unless you're able to kill them quickly enough to prevent it. And that's usually not going to work well. So it's best to always have a path to you. If you want to have flooring you can shoot through and see through, just use the railing shape. They work very well. - That seems horrible - I can kinda live with this And what the heeeell, is those pillars cooked? I can literaly shoot on it and it wont seems to take any damage from gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotor Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 9 hours ago, Unamelable said: - I can kinda live with this Not for long. However, the premise is what Riamus was writing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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