Alpha 21

[Hellox]

What is there to say except that I am fairly impressed.

The entire perk/crafting magazine system I feel is amazing.
It provides a nice sense of progression and just the flavor of weighted randomness.
The perk/crafting magazine reward system is very nice but some of the perk/crafting trees feel to clumped.
I think that is more due to those trees could be expanded upon. Need that mmorpg unlocking addictive feeling.

 

Even though the traders do have a specific skillbook bias, I do think the quest system could using tweaking to a system more akin to
"Weighted randomness" choosing reward path with multiple choices.

 

Choosing these specific type of mission more likely to get ?paper resources?/craft books/weapon books/perk books
Choose these missions to get better chance of resources/weapon parts/weapons
These to get resources/?building parts?/work benches

 

I like the randomness but being able to "direct" the path forward.
It allows for the "oh darn" and "wowee amazing" moments when working in and against your favor.

 

Some of the quests don't feel that "localized" like the trader would be the one knowing about the job
when you literally sent you into other trader "territory" I get the idea is to expand on utility of vehicles but maybe traders are to close?
Bad luck with gen?

 

Performance is feeling amazing.. chunking feels very very smooth.

 

Skill trees , for most part feeling nicer.

 

Perception tree feels more viable choices with spears getting much needed love in direct and in direct ways.
Directly with buffs stats and indirectly with hitboxes on things like doors. Though I personally did not feel the impact
of the slow debuff from the power attack.

 

Strength tree always been popular and solid tree, does what it says on can, brute force with utility.
What is more fun than saying hello with buckshot to the face.

 

Fortitude good tree fists still feel like a "hump" skill where starts off bad... till gets good and feels tanky
Wish tree felt more tanky from get go,Speaking of tanky with automatic guns a "brute damage" weapon that feel should be
in another tree replaced with explosives, automatic guns merged into sniper much like smg with pistols.
Explosives feels like more "I damage you while damaging self" tank skill. Bit odd for perception to have 2 range weapon trees as well.
Which maybe can open up some type of new explosive weapon as well such as flame thrower? Flame thrower sounds and *feels* like a tanks weapon.

 

Agility feeling bit weaker more so cause of world design than the skills themselves. No matter the amount of sneaking
when you are forced not to sneak it feels bad. Maybe skyrim has spoiled us with this? lol
Otherwise utility is strong and weapons are good even though it is less popular tree the weapon skills work.
I think some type of speed buff to make up for not always being able to sneak would help tree.

 

Intelligence aww the red headed step child. To strong , to weak, to doesn't know what it wants to be.
Engineering has always been a *invest just now and respec later* skill giving very little benefit from having points in it long term where you could invest
those points into harvesting more resources faster instead. Once you have the magazines using the weight system no need for points here.
The baton on paper works the damage scales , with a lacking tier 3 "progression" and only melee weapon needing 4 (argue 5 with gut for nerd candy) skill investment you are left
feeling no progression and huge investment to achieve what can be achieved with many many less points.
The robotics still feels bad for exploring, which again many hoped a "following" turret (drone) with gun would have fixed giving intelligence POI range tree.
But since they are not going that direction robotics is left in a semi useful category mostly for hordes where it shines or alternative to 5 wood and making drop box.
Its utility is strong with trader skill line. Than a odd team buff skill out of nowhere which is actually strong, but feels like another tree skill (charisma? lol)
not intelligence.

 

So overall the new perk/skill magazine system is fun and feels rewarding , skill tree wise perception feels much better overall , agility and intelligence feel like
suffer from the same issues they have for a while.

[Ramethzer0]

On 12/7/2023 at 2:37 AM, Hellox said:

Intelligence aww the red headed step child. To strong , to weak, to doesn't know what it wants to be.

Engineering has always been a *invest just now and respec later* skill giving very little benefit from having points in it long term where you could invest
those points into harvesting more resources faster instead. Once you have the magazines using the weight system no need for points here.
The baton on paper works the damage scales , with a lacking tier 3 "progression" and only melee weapon needing 4 (argue 5 with gut for nerd candy) skill investment you are left feeling no progression and huge investment to achieve what can be achieved with many many less points.
The robotics still feels bad for exploring, which again many hoped a "following" turret (drone) with gun would have fixed giving intelligence POI range tree.
But since they are not going that direction robotics is left in a semi useful category mostly for hordes where it shines or alternative to 5 wood and making drop box.
Its utility is strong with trader skill line. Than a odd team buff skill out of nowhere which is actually strong, but feels like another tree skill (charisma? lol)
not intelligence.

 

As someone who plays a lot of INT and subsequent hybridizations of INT, I couldn't disagree with you more.  Your examples are consistent with a very narrow view of what INT is capable of.  But, this attitude is not that uncommon.  Plenty of people familiar with FPS style gameplay simply do not want to spend more time than they feel they need to in order to clear a structure.

 

INT builds are cohesion builds, that focus upon improving quality of life in game, have group establishing methodologies, and the lions share of area denial combat gameplay.  There are lots of little features as well, to mitigate what it looses out by not being a harvesting spec.   You make it up by the cost reduction of processing materials to a certain extent.  The concept of exploring Robotics is also not entirely true.  It's been thoroughly explored, but it needs to be re-balanced.   Many have made videos (including myself) where properly placed turrets and traps absolutely wreck and in some cases are VERY OP.   Just because you didn't find it useful, doesn't mean others haven't.   When using any attribute build you are not just simply bound to the weapons of any given perk tree.  I've employed non perked rifles, shotguns, and explosives to devastating effect when required to make up for a loss in crowd control.   A side by side comparison shows that the other perk lines do share a little bit of overlap, whereas none of them can do what INT does.  That makes it pretty unique.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Crater Creator
clarifying (see edit history)

[Hellox]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:33 PM, Ramethzer0 said:

 

As someone who plays a lot of INT and subsequent hybridizations of INT, I couldn't disagree with you more.  Your examples are of a very narrow view of what INT is capable of.  But, this attitude is not that uncommon.  Plenty of people familiar with FPS style gameplay simply do not want to spend more time than they feel they need to in order to clear a structure.

 

INT builds are cohesion builds, that focus upon improving quality of life in game, have group establishing methodologies, and the lions share of area denial combat gameplay.  There are lots of little features as well, to mitigate what it looses out by not being a harvesting spec.   You make it up by the cost reduction of processing materials to a certain extent.  The concept of exploring Robotics is also not entirely true.  It's been thoroughly explored, but it needs to be re-balanced.   Many have made videos (including myself) where properly placed turrets and traps absolutely wreck and in some cases are VERY OP.   Just because you didn't find it useful, doesn't mean others haven't.   When using any attribute build you are not just simply bound to the weapons of any given perk tree.  I've employed non perked rifles, shotguns, and explosives to devastating effect when required to make up for a loss in crowd control.   A side by side comparison shows that the other perk lines do share a little bit of overlap, whereas none of them can do what INT does.  That makes it pretty unique.

 

You’re not the only one that’s played an int build.

 

Int builds are Perception builds or Strength builds its a video game where multiple skill trees are given for varying game play.

To see *balance* you compare investment of resource in this situation skill points and value that it provides. My orginal post did such.

 

Majority of the game is spent exploring P.O.I's not in base or building. This isn't minecraft last I checked spending most of the day in base in inventory screen crafting some modded block. Which I suggested where turrets are useless if you can prove other wise I suggest you try

 

youtube.com and pick a youtuber or streamer showing otherwise.... maybe they are "king" of the int build using turrets while exploring P.O.I's

 

Quote

"It's been thoroughly explored, but it needs to be re-balanced"

Crazy you seem to agree but still want to say wrong.

 

Quote

but you can use another skill tree

Than why not just remove the int tree if your suggestion is to use another tree.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Crater Creator
removed flames/baiting (see edit history)

[YourMirror]

Baton has a 10% chance of instant kill with the right perks. And having 2 turrets up while waking a room in a POI is a fun way to play. INT in my favorite build in A21. 

One could even say its OP nowadays. But still very fun and powerfull.

[Hellox]

Quote

Baton has a 10% chance of instant kill with the right perks.

Yes and Spears have chance to bleed and slow with armor piercing.

But they do such without an even heavier investment into another skill tree physician.

 

It is investing in a skill tree that can be achieved with less points. That "10%" isn't as high as you think it is , which is why you *feel* its "overpower"

It all has to do with math. Electrocuting zombies is actually just a STUN+BLEED mechanic wise.

 

Take a sledge hammer you swing twice dismember its head and it dies. Baton you swing 10 times over longer period of time and it still alive.

 

Quote

2 turrets up while waking a room in a POI is a fun way to play

It really isn't for ANY streamer or youtuber , or myself. We all *feel* its waste of time and rather hit a zombie 20 more times in hopes for it to die randomly than pick up reload TWO turrets in hotbar inventory management than place them back down and switch to ANOTHER weapon while I could have just clicked and fired a gun at it.

 

The issue with turrets and P.O.I's is having to pick up and reload to place back down in hopes the zombies do not run past the turrets or out of range.

its time consuming and forces inventory management in middle of fight. Its unfun.

 

Turrets work during hordes cause its literally sit in one spot and not move gameplay

 

[Crater Creator]

Thread cleaned up. Let’s move on, sticking to discussing the game and not getting into personal attacks please.

[meganoth]

10 hours ago, Hellox said:

The issue with turrets and P.O.I's is having to pick up and reload to place back down in hopes the zombies do not run past the turrets or out of range.

its time consuming and forces inventory management in middle of fight. Its unfun.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I do feel both, the unfun of placing and recollecting the turrets and the fun of letting the turrets do the damage while I throw zombies around through the air.

 

The obvious solution of making the turrets follow is probably too OP and also has the pathfinding problem. The latter is why TFP opted for (flying) drones as companions. It also would remove a lot of what makes INT fighting distinct to fighting with guns.

 

One change I would be fine with would be increasing the ammo capacity as currently the ammo is so expensive that an unlimited ammo capacity would not make the turrets suddenly OP. Though that would make turrets in horde night even stronger, so uuuh, maybe not.

 

Maybe increasing ammo capacity OR decreasing ammo cost could be a perk bonus, so it really only works for the INT player and makes the robotic perk more valuable. One poster on this site is often complaining that it is too easy for non-INT players to use the turrets for additional damage and crowd control without any investment in INT.

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[YourMirror]

18 hours ago, Hellox said:

We all *feel* its waste of time

 

No you "all" dont. You speak for yourself and i speak for me.  Not speak on behalf of a non existing invisible crowd to make a point. INT is cool for me, period.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Crater Creator
reducing the temperature (see edit history)

[Hellox]

8 hours ago, YourMirror said:

No you "all" dont. You speak for yourself and i speak for me.  Not speak on behalf of a non existing invisible crowd to make a point. INT is cool for me, period.

 

That "non invisible crowd" I speak of is going to watch popular youtubers that play 7 days to die such as https://www.youtube.com/@Glock9

Seeing their reaction to intelligence tree and how they play it and what they think about it.

 

As I stated before I would love to see a popular youtuber or streamer that makes use of turrets and finds it enjoyable to use while exploring P.O.I's.

 

But from my own gameplay experience (personal) and from what I have observed from "the non invisible" crowd , it is considered *unfun* to use turrets while exploring P.O.I's

Edited December 10, 2023 by Hellox
clairify I mean while exploring P.O.I's (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

5 hours ago, Hellox said:

 

That "non invisible crowd" I speak of is going to watch popular youtubers that play 7 days to die such as https://www.youtube.com/@Glock9

Seeing their reaction to intelligence tree and how they play it and what they think about it.

 

As I stated before I would love to see a popular youtuber or streamer that makes use of turrets and finds it enjoyable to use while exploring P.O.I's.

 

But from my own gameplay experience (personal) and from what I have observed from "the non invisible" crowd , it is considered *unfun* to use turrets while exploring P.O.I's

 

[Hellox]

Quote

Link to video by IzPrebuilt

I actually saw that video but did you?

If you watch majority of the gameplay is playing out much like I suggested where turrets are not being used even though its in their inventory hotbar.

 

Theres a whole playlist to that series of multiple P.O.I's using baton and not the turret in their inventory.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Hellox (see edit history)

[meganoth]

Youtubers not only have to play for their own fun, they always need to entertain their audience. And that influences very much what they show.

 

Do youtubers show stealth clearing of POIs? Because that is a much slower way and is probably unpopular to be shown as well. Doesn't mean that there can't be lots of players (like me) who have fun playing a stealthy character.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Arez]

40 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Do youtubers show stealth clearing of POIs? Because that is a much slower way and is probably unpopular to be shown as well.

I learned about stealth play from watching a bunch of the bigger 7 Days Youtubers. They edit the videos with quick cuts so it doesn't seem as slow.

They generally seem to play pretty smart and balanced for the most part. I haven't watched them all though. 

[Hellox]

55 minutes ago, Arez said:

I learned about stealth play from watching a bunch of the bigger 7 Days Youtubers. They edit the videos with quick cuts so it doesn't seem as slow.

They generally seem to play pretty smart and balanced for the most part. I haven't watched them all though. 

 

Fully agree... I have seen people use stealth gameplay.

 

More so in previous alphas before alpha 21 and personally I feel its partially cause of world design implementation of "forced triggers" that are part of alpha 21 world design that makes it so you can't sneak the entire way through a P.O.I