I want empty jars back

[meilodasreh]

Increase the crafting time significantly, and add a "special tool" like crucible to unlock crafting them, to mitigate availability of water in big amounts for early game, and that's it.

 

Running by a lake and not being able to collect the water just doesn't stop to feel absolutely stupid.

 

Daily collection run along my dew collector farm got old and tedious very fast.

[Riamus]

No, thank you.  I'm very happy to have them gone.  They weren't needed even with the old system. 

 

The new system works fine other than the issue with immersion, which could potentially be explained with the story (though they'd have to eliminate drinking from the open water sources entirely to do so).

 

As you said in another topic, water isn't an issue with the new system, so there's no reason to bring back the jars or the old system other than that you were used to it and this is different or because of immersion, which isn't something that is really great in this game to begin with.

[Adam the Waster]

I do think there should be a higher tier way to get water.  Like a water pump. Make it huge about 5x4 (5 blocks long, 4 blocks high) 

 

You need 20 steel, 30 iron pipes, 5 water filters, 10 mechanical parts, and 100 polymer 

 

It needs 20 electricity to run as well

 

It gathers 3 stacks of water a DAY, It gives more if you place near a water source.  

It can only be placed on natural dirt/sand

 

 

But it makes alot of heat. If u have 2 or more. Your granted a few screamers every day.  If you place it far away for your water. It will spawn when it builds up. 

 

Just now, Adam the Waster said:

I do think there should be a higher tier way to get water.  Like a water pump. Make it huge about 5x4 (5 blocks long, 4 blocks high) 

 

You need 20 steel, 30 iron pipes, 5 water filters, 10 mechanical parts, and 100 polymer 

 

It needs 20 electricity to run as well

 

It gathers 3 stacks of water a DAY, It gives more if you place near a water source.  

It can only be placed on natural dirt/sand

 

 

But it makes alot of heat. If u have 2 or more. Your granted a few screamers every day.  If you place it far away for your water. It will spawn when it builds up. 

 

And make it so dirty water Is much more risky and the effects. 

 

Make it like the old days were if you don't treat it. You get more ill and you can die

 

Once radiation is added.  Make it so it gives you some rads

[meilodasreh]

you both seem to have misread my point.

 

I did not say "dump the dew collector system and revert back to the old system"

I said I want empty jars back.

 

The new system with the dew collector is fine, it works good early game, and the idea of a dew collector even is immersive.

 

I just don't like how it works late game, where you should - as adam also said - have the possibility of some kind of "industrial production rate", especially because of glue (which needs water).

 

Having a big dew collector farm is tedious, and not very good looking also...next to that "obvious thingy" with an unusable water source like lake nearby.

 

So why not "reactivate" empty jars as a late game item, that you can slowly but steadily produce (see it like steel production),

and those then can be filled in a lake, stormdrain or whatever.

This effect would be the same in principle as a higher tier water pump like thing, to get higher amounts of water faster.

Edited August 3, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[Riamus]

They don't want jars so they aren't going to come back even if they did change back to the old system.  Alternate options for water improvements have a far better chance of being listened to by the devs.  I'd be fine with a water pump option for late game water.  In fact, I would like that option combined with piping to bring the water to your base, even if the piping could be destroyed easily by zombies.  But jars?  Nope.

 

I would be fine with a lot of other options for water as long as they don't mean having dozens or hundreds of jars all over the place.  And that it doesn't mean you just craft a ton of whatever it is and fill them in a second.  If it takes a couple seconds per item to fill by hand and you had to do it one at a time, it would be this enough that I might be okay with it but I still don't like finding tons of items that I'll never use and that make water trivial.  It is one thing to have water easy to manage and another for it to be trivial.  If it is trivial, just remove it entirely from the game because there isn't any point to it.

[zztong]

4 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

Running by a lake and not being able to collect the water just doesn't stop to feel absolutely stupid.

 

I agree. I've got a home-grown modlet that gives me a jar of murky water from a water source, instead of drinking from the water source.

 

To compensate for making the early game easier, I took away the entirety of the character's starting inventory, so I don't start with food and water anymore. I also set murky water to stack to 10 instead of 125.

 

I don't have any empty jars in the game and I don't miss them.

 

The dew collector is fine. I added an "unfiltered dew collector" too which creates murky water. You can add a filter to it and make a regular dew collector. I have a recipe that lets me make a filter as well. I don't really care for being required to depend upon a trader for basic survival.

 

I doubt it will tempt TFP, but I'm happy.

 

For reference: (items.xml)

<items>

    <!-- Change the Hand (meleeHandPlayer) to collect water instead of drink water. -->
    <setattribute xpath="/items/item[@name='meleeHandPlayer']/property[@class='Action2']/property[@name='Sound_start']" name="value">bucketfill_water</setattribute>

    <setattribute xpath="/items/item[@name='meleeHandPlayer']/property[@class='Action2']/property[@name='Description']" name="value">lblContextActionTake</setattribute>

    <append xpath="/items/item[@name='meleeHandPlayer']/property[@class='Action2']">
        <property name="Create_item" value="drinkJarRiverWater"/>
        <property name="Create_item_count" value="1"/>
    </append>

    <remove xpath="/items/item[@name='meleeHandPlayer']/effect_group[@name='Drink']" />

    <!-- Change the River (Mirky) Water Stacking to 10 to match the other waters. -->
    <setattribute xpath="/items/item[@name='drinkJarRiverWater']/property[@name='Stacknumber']" name="value">10</setattribute>

</items>

 

[meilodasreh]

Nice!

If I had any talent in coding,

I would probably make a water filter as a "workstation", that has a slow but improvable "processing/crafting rate" for clean water out of murky water,

which can be collected from whatever water source with empty jerry cans or whatever (not to say the other bad j-word 😀)

But I'm not.

[zztong]

6 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

If I had any talent in coding, I would probably make a water filter as a "workstation", that has a slow but improvable "processing/crafting rate" for clean water out of murky water

 

It is what a campfire does already using a cooking pot. That is, unless you want multi-staged water purification... Murky > Filtered > Boiled (Potable).

 

If I were doing that multi-staged approach, I'd be tempted to let a Chemistry Station take it from Murky > Boiled in one step as that sounds like a Still.

 

I want to say somebody, I think khmusic, has a modlet that has multi-staged water.

 

As part of my "I don't want to depend on Traders for basic survival" goal, I have a recipe to make a filter, recipes for both filtered dew collectors and unfiltered dew collectors, and recipes for cooking pots and cooking grills. This tends to mean that I'm spending my first day foraging for all sorts of things instead of raiding a POI for water and a cooking pot, or more typically dukes to buy a cooking pot. Around day 2 or 3, I've probably picked a base near a water source and started to become independent, which seems the same as the TFP approach. Since I don't start with a can of food, two jars of water, or even a first aid bandage, I can be in a pretty ragged state at the beginning.

 

After that initial period, I'm likely not to be suffering for glue like a TFP approach, specially since I like to hunt and usually have lots of bones. The longer water crafting time is a nice complication.

[Adam the Waster]

20 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

you both seem to have misread my point.

 

I did not say "dump the dew collector system and revert back to the old system"

I said I want empty jars back.

 

The new system with the dew collector is fine, it works good early game, and the idea of a dew collector even is immersive.

 

I just don't like how it works late game, where you should - as adam also said - have the possibility of some kind of "industrial production rate", especially because of glue (which needs water).

 

Having a big dew collector farm is tedious, and not very good looking also...next to that "obvious thingy" with an unusable water source like lake nearby.

 

So why not "reactivate" empty jars as a late game item, that you can slowly but steadily produce (see it like steel production),

and those then can be filled in a lake, stormdrain or whatever.

This effect would be the same in principle as a higher tier water pump like thing, to get higher amounts of water faster.

I understand but I can see were they are coming from. But it makes no sense why you can't reuse a jar. 

 

But unless they wanted to do something like fallout 76 (no water jars lmao) 

Were it takes 

3 dirty water to make 1 boiled

 

But that would be worst. 

 

 

In terms of glue. There should be alt ways. Like using crops with bones. 

[Syphon583]

14 hours ago, zztong said:

and recipes for cooking pots and cooking grills

I'm sorry, this part just caught my eye. This is already a thing. You don't need traders for cooking pots or grills. Just make them in the forge.

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean...

[Vaeliorin]

21 hours ago, Riamus said:

If it takes a couple seconds per item to fill by hand and you had to do it one at a time, it would be this enough that I might be okay with it but I still don't like finding tons of items that I'll never use and that make water trivial.  It is one thing to have water easy to manage and another for it to be trivial.  If it is trivial, just remove it entirely from the game because there isn't any point to it.

Then they might as well remove it, because it is trivial.  I have a world where I'm on Day 19 (2 hour days, admittedly) and I have over 500 water sitting in storage.  I've got 36 dew collectors, so water isn't even remotely an issue.  I've been buying out the water filters from every trader I've found every trader day to the point where I'm at, and I think I'm going to call it good.

[Riamus]

Well, you made it trivial with 36 dew collectors.  Yet even so, that isn't something that happens on day 1 or 2.  Glass jars could be done right away because you could find them quickly and easily and fill them any time you wanted and as often as you wanted.

 

Besides, they don't want water to be difficult all game.  They want you to be able to overcome it.

 

Anyhow, they won't remove the new system or go back to the old so it is moot.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[zztong]

1 hour ago, Syphon583 said:

I'm sorry, this part just caught my eye. This is already a thing. You don't need traders for cooking pots or grills. Just make them in the forge.

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean...

 

You get access to the forge a couple of days into the game, but you tend to need a cooking pot Day 1 if you didn't start with any food or water. My recipes are 100 Iron and 20 Clay, no workstation required. The Forge recipe is cheaper. I'd prefer to have a recipe for a "crude cooking pot" that wore out, but workstation tools don't wear out. My recipe basically provides an escape mechanism if I cannot find a cooking pot in the world.

Edited August 4, 2023 by zztong (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

On 8/3/2023 at 3:28 PM, zztong said:

 

I agree. I've got a home-grown modlet that gives me a jar of murky water from a water source, instead of drinking from the water source.

 

To compensate for making the early game easier, I took away the entirety of the character's starting inventory, so I don't start with food and water anymore. I also set murky water to stack to 10 instead of 125.

 

I don't have any empty jars in the game and I don't miss them.

 

The dew collector is fine. I added an "unfiltered dew collector" too which creates murky water. You can add a filter to it and make a regular dew collector. I have a recipe that lets me make a filter as well. I don't really care for being required to depend upon a trader for basic survival.

 

I doubt it will tempt TFP, but I'm happy.

 

For reference: (items.xml)

<items>

    <!-- Change the Hand (meleeHandPlayer) to collect water instead of drink water. -->
    <setattribute xpath="/items/item[@name='meleeHandPlayer']/property[@class='Action2']/property[@name='Sound_start']" name="value">bucketfill_water</setattribute>

    <setattribute xpath="/items/item[@name='meleeHandPlayer']/property[@class='Action2']/property[@name='Description']" name="value">lblContextActionTake</setattribute>

    <append xpath="/items/item[@name='meleeHandPlayer']/property[@class='Action2']">
        <property name="Create_item" value="drinkJarRiverWater"/>
        <property name="Create_item_count" value="1"/>
    </append>

    <remove xpath="/items/item[@name='meleeHandPlayer']/effect_group[@name='Drink']" />

    <!-- Change the River (Mirky) Water Stacking to 10 to match the other waters. -->
    <setattribute xpath="/items/item[@name='drinkJarRiverWater']/property[@name='Stacknumber']" name="value">10</setattribute>

</items>

 

I think I see a future job for you 🤔