my a21 gripes

[strykerman]

I have 2 main gripes, so far:

crafting progression:
I like the new system, what i dont like is this crafting progression stone tools 1-5, then you learn iron tools 1-5, then steel tools.  the problem is that when i had iron level 5, I found an iron level 6. I did not make any steel tools until I could make level 5, not because of the mod slot difference, but because the iron level 6 was better than the steel lvl 4 tools.  It was even worse with most of the guns.

I would like to have seen this progression: stone 1, iron 1, steel 1, stone 2, iron 2, steel 2, etc.  I would have been using far more crafting resources and would have had more incremental jumps rather than massive ones.

looting:
where are the fishing weights and trophies?  they are still in the CM, but I have yet to find one in the wild, anywhere.  I noticed that I really dont have any lead as a result.  I think they should be brought back, but limited to certain POI's (sporting stores, lakeside houses, maybe future POI's of houses with a boat on a trailer parked in the driveway or garage).  EDIT: I just realized that I have not found brass trophies either.  also missed, even if it only meant that my personal crafting queue was doing more and I had to go into my inventory more often.

Edited July 15, 2023 by strykerman (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

6 minutes ago, strykerman said:

I have 2 main gripes, so far:

crafting progression:
I like the new system, what i dont like is this crafting progression stone tools 1-5, then you learn iron tools 1-5, then steel tools.  the problem is that when i had iron level 5, I found an iron level 6. I did not make any steel tools until I could make level 5, not because of the mod slot difference, but because the iron level 6 was better than the steel lvl 4 tools.  It was even worse with most of the guns.

I would like to have seen this progression: stone 1, iron 1, steel 1, stone 2, iron 2, steel 2, etc.  I would have been using far more crafting resources and would have had more incremental jumps rather than massive ones.
 

 

If you can craft a level 3 steel pickaxe, why would you craft a level 4 stone axe?  🤔

 

 

Quote

looting:
where are the fishing weights and trophies?  they are still in the CM, but I have yet to find one in the wild, anywhere.  I noticed that I really dont have any lead as a result.  I think they should be brought back, but limited to certain POI's (sporting stores, lakeside houses, maybe future POI's of houses with a boat on a trailer parked in the driveway or garage).  EDIT: I just realized that I have not found brass trophies either.  also missed, even if it only meant that my personal crafting queue was doing more and I had to go into my inventory more often.

 

Those items were replaced with scrapped lead and scrapped brass.

[strykerman]

24 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

If you can craft a level 3 steel pickaxe, why would you craft a level 4 stone axe?  🤔

 

it doesnt have to be exact 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 ,2, it could be 1, 2 stone, 1 iron, 1 steel, 3, 4 stone, 2, 3, iron, 2 steel.

just something where I dont skip levels 1-4 of a material because the 5 or 6 of the prior material is still better.

 

24 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Those items were replaced with scrapped lead and scrapped brass.

no, scrapped lead and brass were in the game before hand, and you could find them in loot, along side the trophies and other bits. you had to scrap the trophies and fishing weights to get scrapped lead/brass from them.  They are still in the creative menu, so they werent completely removed, unlike the glass jars.

I am really disappointed in the lack of trophies and lead weights.  they added something to the immersion.  that the demands of survival became so much more heavy a burden that you must erase the history of people's lives just to meet those demands.

[ElCabong]

I recycle shot and shotgun ammo to get lead. I haven't thought about trophies until you mentioned it. You can also recycle batteries.

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, strykerman said:

no, scrapped lead and brass were in the game before hand, and you could find them in loot

Without being in BFT's head, what he's saying is the items were replaced by an equal amount of straight up scrap lead in loot - you shouldn't be having less lead because they're missing. Less immersion, but same lead.

 

Whether that's true or not, or if the lead balance is where TFP want it; I can't say. Haven't needed any in my games, all the ammo I fire has come from looting this far, as ready-made rounds. OK, I've made a stack of AP, but haven't fired half of them...

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, strykerman said:

no, scrapped lead and brass were in the game before hand, and you could find them in loot, along side the trophies and other bits. you had to scrap the trophies and fishing weights to get scrapped lead/brass from them.  They are still in the creative menu, so they werent completely removed, unlike the glass jars.

I am really disappointed in the lack of trophies and lead weights.  they added something to the immersion.  that the demands of survival became so much more heavy a burden that you must erase the history of people's lives just to meet those demands.

Yes, scrapped lead and brass were in the game before but that doesn't change the fact that the trophies and weights were replaced with an equal amount of scrap.  This was stated by the devs, though they didn't say if the equal amount of lead or brass was equal to the scrapped amount or the smelted amount; they just said it was equal.

 

I like them being gone as they just took space for no good reason.  If you didn't scrap them and instead smelted them, they usually stayed in storage until you had enough to make smelting then worthwhile so they weren't really much good.  This way, you can just smelt stacks of brass or lead without dealing with those items.  I don't disagree that they felt immersive but I don't miss them at all.  They could add a bunch of miscellaneous items that can be scrapped into stuff to make the game more immersive but when it comes down to it, those items aren't really worth having in the game. 

 

In games that have a bunch of random stuff, even if it can be broken down instead of just sold, I don't feel it is with having in the game.  It just takes space or time to deal with or whatever.  Just give me the money directly instead of junk to sell or give me the resources instead of making me sure time scrapping it.

 

I wouldn't even say it is less immersive.  Less variety, yes.  But less immersive?  Not really.  Just about the only loot containers you would realistically find fishing weights, trophies and candlesticks is the trash or trash cans.  And that would be very rare.  Certainly not the very common loot we had everywhere before.

 

The way to look at it is that you are smelting a variety of lead or brass items at once and the stacks of lead and brass are just a variety of items, which can include weights and trophies and candlesticks.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Zagan]

I don't like having to buy literally thousands of books just to craft stuff. They tried this in A17 but people hated it so they dropped it. Way too much hassle.

I also don't like the game's Map Generator. I generated a 10k map; there was only 1 trader on the map with almost no buildings and you can't get a flat map no matter what you do.

 

 

[strykerman]

1 hour ago, theFlu said:

Without being in BFT's head, what he's saying is the items were replaced by an equal amount of straight up scrap lead in loot - you shouldn't be having less lead because they're missing. Less immersion, but same lead.

 

Whether that's true or not, or if the lead balance is where TFP want it; I can't say. Haven't needed any in my games, all the ammo I fire has come from looting this far, as ready-made rounds. OK, I've made a stack of AP, but haven't fired half of them...

I have not gotten anywhere near the same amount of lead scrap.  it was a definite drop in lead.  I have had to craft rounds, and lead was an issue for me.

[Riamus]

2 minutes ago, strykerman said:

I have not gotten anywhere near the same amount of lead scrap.  it was a definite drop in lead.  I have had to craft rounds, and lead was an issue for me.

I'm not sure other than to say it is RNG.  I am finding lead all over the place, especially in trash.  I don't track numbers of stuff like that so can't verify it is exactly the same but I'm getting at least roughly the same amounts as before if I count the lead and brass items.  Again, though... Equal may be related to scrapped amounts (-25%) instead of smelted amounts.  They didn't clarify which it was equal to.  If you compare the XML loot tables, you should see that wherever you got those items, you get the lead or brass instead in an amount equal to those items.  That's the easiest way to verify that it is what the devs stated.  If it isn't, I'd post the XML loot table for any changes that had the weights, trophies, or candlesticks from A20 and the same table from A21 to show that it isn't the same and maybe it can be looked into.

[canadianbluebeer]

I like the scrapped lead/brass vs the old way. Had bunches of doorknobs, trophies and scrap etc.

(radiators are still in)

 

I'm up to over 20k brass now and haven't started smelting it (that is coming, just made room for the forges).

Was lucky to get the book for brass from doors (old doorknob thing), so I hit EVERY wood door. (and the metal ones too)

Also makes it easy to see if I cleared a POI or not.

 

Mind you, I did up the stacks for radiators to 50 as it was just silly. (have almost 100 radiators now)

 

Much easier dropping a stack of brass/lead in, instead of a few trophies, knobs, fishing weights etc.

(radiators take forever, so I save it until I have stacks of 'em and just plonk'em in and ignore until done)

 

[FinkPloyd]

On 7/16/2023 at 2:16 AM, strykerman said:

it doesnt have to be exact 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 ,2, it could be 1, 2 stone, 1 iron, 1 steel, 3, 4 stone, 2, 3, iron, 2 steel.

just something where I dont skip levels 1-4 of a material because the 5 or 6 of the prior material is still better.

Sounds confusing.

 

Also tier 3 requires late game resources like Steel Tool Parts and Forged Steel, so you would not often be able to craft these items early.

 

For me it is more of an issue when there are items with less than 3 tiers that did not get the mod slots changed (ie batons, drones, junk turrets, etc)

[Ray Garraty]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:32 PM, strykerman said:

where are the fishing weights

Good riddance. Looting for lead is a waste of time imo