FranticDan Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Uncle Al said: Is it possible slugs got tweaked in other ways, when they didn't get a proportional damage increase? The ammo item itself got buffed from 96 to 102 dmg, however, due to the bonus damage bonus from the Pump and Auto, shells get 10x most boost than the slugs since shells are 10 projectiles. I could look at the xml from A20 and compare the slugs in A21, but last I checked I only noticed the change to dmg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookandpie Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 On 11/22/2023 at 10:25 PM, FranticDan said: Very much so, slugs being nerfed into the ground is a feature and not a bug at this point. You're best to use slugs with the Pipe and Double shotguns, stick with shells when using Pump and Auto Ah, that's a real shame. Thank you for the information. I guess all the polymer we're stacking up will be used for explosive bolts on my crossbow rather than slugs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Al Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 18 hours ago, FranticDan said: The ammo item itself got buffed from 96 to 102 dmg, however, due to the bonus damage bonus from the Pump and Auto, shells get 10x most boost than the slugs since shells are 10 projectiles. I could look at the xml from A20 and compare the slugs in A21, but last I checked I only noticed the change to dmg Yeah I was kind of reaching, because it really seems to me that this is a bug/oversight. It's reasonable that slugs might have lower total damage, compared to a shell where every pellet hits, but the proportion by which that damage is lower should be the same across all weapon tiers. The fact that the disparity is due to shotgun damage being increased, but not scaled for slugs, reinforces this. Has anyone put a bug report in on this, and if so, did it come back 'working as intended'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranticDan Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 5 hours ago, Uncle Al said: Yeah I was kind of reaching, because it really seems to me that this is a bug/oversight. It's reasonable that slugs might have lower total damage, compared to a shell where every pellet hits, but the proportion by which that damage is lower should be the same across all weapon tiers. The fact that the disparity is due to shotgun damage being increased, but not scaled for slugs, reinforces this. Has anyone put a bug report in on this, and if so, did it come back 'working as intended'? A QA tester responded to this post months ago and said they'll look into it. Considering the fact that nothing has been done about it to address what looks like an blantant oversight suggests to me its not an oversight at all. I don't think a bug report has been mode regarding this. 5 hours ago, pookandpie said: Ah, that's a real shame. Thank you for the information. I guess all the polymer we're stacking up will be used for explosive bolts on my crossbow rather than slugs! Yep! I used to get excited whenever I found the slugs book, now I don't even care, its just another almost useless book now that only helps to unlock bulk crafting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 4 hours ago, FranticDan said: A QA tester responded to this post months ago and said they'll look into it. Considering the fact that nothing has been done about it to address what looks like an blantant oversight suggests to me its not an oversight at all. I don't think a bug report has been mode regarding this. Considering the other fact that some bugs existed for multiple alphas suggests to me that some stuff simply falls behind drawers. A "successful" bug report is what keeps it at least on an important list so it isn't forgotten. But if some tester just said they will look into it there is a real change he just forgot it afterwards and it effectively is lost in time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugginator Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 9 hours ago, meganoth said: Considering the other fact that some bugs existed for multiple alphas suggests to me that some stuff simply falls behind drawers. A "successful" bug report is what keeps it at least on an important list so it isn't forgotten. But if some tester just said they will look into it there is a real change he just forgot it afterwards and it effectively is lost in time. Nope, not forgotten. Just balancing goes way deeper than just damage numbers ;). Slugs did get their wood/loot container-destroying nature reduced, since the penetration did lead to POI Swiss cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Al Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 12 hours ago, meganoth said: Considering the other fact that some bugs existed for multiple alphas suggests to me that some stuff simply falls behind drawers. A "successful" bug report is what keeps it at least on an important list so it isn't forgotten. But if some tester just said they will look into it there is a real change he just forgot it afterwards and it effectively is lost in time. That's exactly what I was thinking. I will try and put one in, but it's a bit of a (totally understandable) faff as I'll need to create a game just to have a log file, or it won't pass the acceptance process and the report will never actually get accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugginator Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 I've started some in-depth testing on this, no report needed. I've noticed a few things that's throwing balance off a little bit, not entirely damage-related, facets such as range of dismemberment/penetration are a bigger part of it. WIP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 (edited) On 11/24/2023 at 11:58 AM, meganoth said: Considering the other fact that some bugs existed for multiple alphas suggests to me that some stuff simply falls behind drawers. A "successful" bug report is what keeps it at least on an important list so it isn't forgotten. But if some tester just said they will look into it there is a real change he just forgot it afterwards and it effectively is lost in time. There is a bug with water and stamina regen that has been here since a17 and is still not fixed. If you go below 74% water you get hit with a 20% stam regen penalty, there is no UI tool tip, no xml reference either for this debuff. this debuff USED to be in a16.4 and had proper tool tip/icon etc, but these were removed in a17 and the debuff was supposed to be moved to under 50% water. However, it seems the devs forgot to remove the orignal debuff from the code, as even today in a21.2 you can still lose 20% stam regen once your water hits 74% and lower. Like I said you won't find this debuff in the xml's anywhere, as its a hard coded debuff it seems that needs to be removed by TFP. Its been reported multiple times and nothing is ever done to fix it, even after its been confirmed to be an issue. As for the shotgun slugs, I can admit i've never used them, vanilla shotguns have a debuff they place on anything hit that forces them to walk speed, its there on every shotgun, and as you get the perk the debuff lasts longer, it Starts at 4s, then 6s and finally 8s. You can backpedal faster than zombies can walk so with a shotgun even within 4 blocks nothing should be able to get to you if you keep shooting. This is part what makes the shotgun so good, its not just the high damage per shot/ammo, its the slow as well that makes it very useful bascially for anything. Mind you shotguns do suck for horde night due to the poor range depending on base design, the design I use for example the zombies are 13 blocks away from where I shoot, so buckshot basically is useless till they break 2 sets of bars to get closer. Edited December 9, 2023 by Scyris (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranticDan Posted December 10, 2023 Author Share Posted December 10, 2023 14 hours ago, Scyris said: There is a bug with water and stamina regen that has been here since a17 and is still not fixed. If you go below 74% water you get hit with a 20% stam regen penalty, there is no UI tool tip, no xml reference either for this debuff. this debuff USED to be in a16.4 and had proper tool tip/icon etc, but these were removed in a17 and the debuff was supposed to be moved to under 50% water. However, it seems the devs forgot to remove the orignal debuff from the code, as even today in a21.2 you can still lose 20% stam regen once your water hits 74% and lower. Like I said you won't find this debuff in the xml's anywhere, as its a hard coded debuff it seems that needs to be removed by TFP. Its been reported multiple times and nothing is ever done to fix it, even after its been confirmed to be an issue. A modder @w00kien00kie has made a modlet that fixes this bug, I've been using it for the past 2 months or so, its amazing! I'm not sure if it's public though 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w00kien00kie Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Not public yet but will be soon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plzkthxbye Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 12/10/2023 at 4:41 AM, w00kien00kie said: Not public yet but will be soon Is this still not ready for prime time? Squashing such a longstanding bug sounds super useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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