Sleeper alerting system is weird

[bandersnatch]

Personally I don't get why they haven't started treating zombies in a more realistic manner.  Their rotting away slowly - perhaps more slowly that nature intended.  Wouldn't their senses degrade?  Vision would probably be the first to go since eyes decay the fastest, followed by taste, smell, hearing and finally touch.  Newer zombies would still react like any animal, relying mostly on their five human senses (with smell presumably boosted).  Their mystical "feral sense" would be weak at first with a lower detection radius.  The older, more decrepit zombies would probably depend more on  feral sense, being less sensitive to noise or smell but once you got in range of their feral sense they would react instantly.

Edited January 11, 2022 by bandersnatch (see edit history)

[Viktoriusiii]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:40 PM, ricp said:

You can view this unedited clip here: https://streamable.com/mqdnlc

Seems perfectly reasonable. Wouldn'T want the player to be able to snipe the zombies. The player needs action. Who needs freedom. 🧂  🧂  🧂

Okay enough salt. This is how the sleeper system works.
In order to combar players waking up an entire poi and guiding them outside, they want to make these encounters "instanced" and this is just one of the more obvious results.
Happens basicially everywhere. If you aren't within the sleeper volume you might already see the red dots, but they aren't spawned in yet. Especially if you are on a different heightlevel than the volume you look at.

[PinkLed5]

On 12/29/2021 at 7:25 AM, ricp said:

There is one new PoI (sorry can't tell you a name) that as you go down to the ground floor, zombies spawn under the stairwell, yet they don't spawn until you are well within the room.

 

Might be farm_02.  I've gotten a lot of restore power quests on that one, and I know where to find all the sleepers and how to take them out before they activate.  The ones under the stairs are impossible, though.  I'll take out the top of the stairs with my axe, and they're supposed to be in the space right beneath, but the darn things don't spawn until you get to the bottom of the stairs.

 

I had another new PoI, the police station, that I tunneled underneath and popped up in the loot room like Bugs Bunny.  It was empty upon first glance, but I knew better.  I jumped straight up and as soon as my feet crossed the vertical threshold a bunch popped right out of thin air and then activated.

 

Seeing zombies spawn before your eyes is quite immersion breaking.  They should spawn if you're within a certain distance.

[ricp]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:12 PM, Viktoriusiii said:

Seems perfectly reasonable. Wouldn'T want the player to be able to snipe the zombies. The player needs action. Who needs freedom. 🧂  🧂  🧂

Okay enough salt. This is how the sleeper system works.
In order to combar players waking up an entire poi and guiding them outside, they want to make these encounters "instanced" and this is just one of the more obvious results.
Happens basicially everywhere. If you aren't within the sleeper volume you might already see the red dots, but they aren't spawned in yet. Especially if you are on a different heightlevel than the volume you look at.

 

I think you have misunderstood the reason I posted that. It was in response to an earlier post asking for clarification of a point I made.

Afaik, it's now been resolved as a ticket was raised. Easy enough to do, and while you are right in saying there is an overhead, you are completely wrong with "this is how it's meant to be".

[PinkLed5]

On 12/25/2021 at 2:35 PM, Deceptive Pastry said:

but if I crouch down, as silent as possible, walk 2 feet forward and cross the volume threshold, and I fail the hidden stealth check, suddenly every single zombie 20 feet away aggros on me.

 

Even worser, is when you approach an area of a PoI in a way the game doesn't expect and zombies suddenly pop out of thin air a few feet away from you.  As a stealther, this happens to me waaaay too often.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

@Laz Man

As mentioned here in the Dev Diary:

 

You asked for the details after.

 

First:  oldwest_strip_01

In this screenshot I am downstairs.  I have clearly shot out the doors of the 2 monster closets and they are empty.  They do not populate till you are more than half way up the stairs.  So you see empty cabinets, start up the stairs and magic zombies.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2752939475

 

Second: house_old_ranch_06

The zombies do not populate in this room that the path indicates you are to drop into until AFTER you have fallen at least 2 meters.  So you look in, see an empty room, drop down and suddenly magic zombies.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2752939403

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2752939442

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

@Laz Man

I think this has to be one of the worst I have come across thus far. 

Factory_03

In the first screenshot I am establishing my position as part way between ground floor and the second.  The light shines on the flower normally in the corner right behind where I took this screenshot from.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2831896627

Here my head is a few steps above the level of floor and still no zombies.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2831896669

Finally, I take one more step up and I am nearly surrounded by an instant spawn.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2831896697

 

 

[Laz Man]

11 hours ago, Red Eagle LXIX said:

@Laz Man

I think this has to be one of the worst I have come across thus far. 

Factory_03

In the first screenshot I am establishing my position as part way between ground floor and the second.  The light shines on the flower normally in the corner right behind where I took this screenshot from.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2831896627

Here my head is a few steps above the level of floor and still no zombies.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2831896669

Finally, I take one more step up and I am nearly surrounded by an instant spawn.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2831896697

 

 

 

Thanks for the info.  Whats your perk load out look like?

[theFlu]

6 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Whats your perk load out look like?

That got me curious, perks shouldn't influence spawning, right?

[Red Eagle LXIX]

9 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Thanks for the info.  Whats your perk load out look like?

Why? Do perks affect how/where/when things spawn? (Gamestage would obviously influence the type of spawns and numbers, sorry I did not note mine at the time.)

As to stats.  AGI and INT were maxed, decent STR, FORT, PERC, stealth & knife & bow maxed.  Working on the other skills.

The front 2 almost always awoke as soon as they spawned (it took a few tries to get that nice screenshot of them standing and behaving).  The walk up the stairs and spawn was very repeatable as to where/when they spawn. 

NOTE: a workaround to maintain stealth and not them spawn so close to the player was to do the following.  Instead of going up the stairs themselves, go to the holder/stand for the flower pot and jump up onto that stand, then jump again.  As soon as the player jumps while on the flower pot stand, they get high enough to trigger the spawn, the zombies on that stairway spawn and they are far enough away then that stealth works to retreat or take them out.  Either way it is still visually bad as they just appear out of nowhere. 

FWIW, I understand the difficulty with that stairway spawn, making the volume go lower may solve the visual issue but then create an issue with another sleeper volume under the stairs.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Red Eagle LXIX (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

4 hours ago, Red Eagle LXIX said:

Why? Do perks affect how/where/when things spawn? (Gamestage would obviously influence the type of spawns and numbers, sorry I did not note mine at the time.)

As to stats.  AGI and INT were maxed, decent STR, FORT, PERC, stealth & knife & bow maxed.  Working on the other skills.

The front 2 almost always awoke as soon as they spawned (it took a few tries to get that nice screenshot of them standing and behaving).  The walk up the stairs and spawn was very repeatable as to where/when they spawn. 

NOTE: a workaround to maintain stealth and not them spawn so close to the player was to do the following.  Instead of going up the stairs themselves, go to the holder/stand for the flower pot and jump up onto that stand, then jump again.  As soon as the player jumps while on the flower pot stand, they get high enough to trigger the spawn, the zombies on that stairway spawn and they are far enough away then that stealth works to retreat or take them out.  Either way it is still visually bad as they just appear out of nowhere. 

FWIW, I understand the difficulty with that stairway spawn, making the volume go lower may solve the visual issue but then create an issue with another sleeper volume under the stairs.

 

Just checked that POI in current build and no issues with spawning that group normally.  Are you running any spawn count related mods?

[Rotor]

Look maw a crossbow!

 

One day I shall have one.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

3 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Just checked that POI in current build and no issues with spawning that group normally.  Are you running any spawn count related mods?

 

No spawn or gamestage mods.  I do run my UI tweaks and a stacking mod.

Very odd, that was certainly the right spot.

Unfortunately the world itself was created with settings I don't have saved as I was trying to be adventurous and not actually preview the map.