Incoherent setting

[Matt115]

I hope someone will respond on this topic.  First and most important thing - i appreciate job of TFP so i will not write about quality - so if i wrote  something like " this guns looks so bad" i mean - this not suit here well and i don't mean this model is bad quality .

So let's started.

Well game have some big incoherent elements making this game bad from art point of view. ( i will wrote how could this fixed if someone respond) 

I will try to explain starting on biomes- Okay so  most of them looks 99% times good ( with one exception but about this later)  but desert and burned forest , and wastelands looks like something from diffrent game - desert looks too much like someone want to make sandbox adventure game similar to indiana jones, burned forest looks like NZA burning forest - well have something similar is not bad but... this is post apo virus zombie game right? so  burned forest is nothing wrong but smoke and embres are - if this game happens after 10-15 years after outbreak wood would be extinguished long ago.

Wastelands looks like something from f.e.a.r 2 or terminator- is not bad but not suit well with rest of game. This biome need a smooth change in next biom like - collapsed ruins in center but  on the edges  overgrown ruins.

Well i aprreciate more " outbreak" elements like bus stop with pictures of people but this game needs more places like that - more dead corpses destroyed outpost , writing on walls etc because now it's looks too much like this cities are normal warzone or dunno attacked by ghost or aliens not by zombies. Well more military venicles equpiment like radio, barricades watchtowers checkpoint could help a lot.

Another problem - guns ( REMEMBER GUYS I TALK ABOUT  HOW THEY SUIT NOT ABOUT QUALITY OF MODELS) are not suit well- okay junk MG can stay as "modifted" STG 44 but - hunting rifle should stay as T1 because junk rifle suits more into mad max (not seriouse ) not into something that keep 2008 settting , this same problem with shotgun and mods- well idea of mods it's good so "true" mods would suit well. Why? because we have tons of military bases , guns shops so better idea would be just take mods from shop not put shovel handle as gun stock.  This world looks like l4d2 so i think guns would be still in good condition. And my bigger problem is lever rifle- okay i understand they are popular in usa but- after post apo this type of guns would be one of the first "victims" - they are rly hard to fix, clean etc - that's why army prefered bolt action rifles.

Zombies- well my biggest problem is- what type of zombie they want to "create" - normal zombies and animals looks like reanimated corpses in walking dead style. But screamer looks like more from "curse and magic" type of zombie, radiactive and fat cop are just "victim" of radioactvity so they suit into walking dead style. But now the most not suit well zombie is spider zombie- it's looks like RE mutant- this nothing bad but zombies there are "human made" not virus so old version would suit better that new version. Ofc wright was looking like mutant.. but now it's looks like decyied walking dead zombie not mutant so if devs decided to keep this as mutant or spider zombie as human it would looks better. But soldier zombie now looks too much as modern "regular" army. Well i know how modern soldiers look like so better idea would to keep them as nation guard style or make them looks less "read for battle" - lighter armor etc.

Armors- well idk how it will looks in A21 but if concept arts are "correct" - this mean we will get something in comedy zombie movie mixed with mad max -  rest of the game keep "realistic" setting - shops are full of clothes houses etc so most of the surviors would wear civilian, miltary or "armor" like swat armor or  sport protectors not clothes like savages from 2130 who never saw how people  looks before apocalypse. Ofc gameplay is important so - iron armor could be just breastplate in hispanic style with bike helmet and iron plates on jeans pants, steel armor -  old medival rust  armor with few missing parts. 

 

So @madmole @faatal and rest of devs team please read this if you have some free time - you are doing great job guys but you need to more thinking about artstyle - i know it is  just too late to fix "style" but this is advice for next game. Sorry for grammar mistakes. And this is not only my complaining but my try to help. Your game is great , you just need to keep more coherent setting in the future. And ofc i know something like that is hard so halve of joke - if  you want advice how something could like - for example 7dtd in medival period write about it and i will do my best to keep consistent artstyle. 😁

Edited December 19, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[JCrook1028]

13 hours ago, Matt115 said:

- hunting rifle should stay as T1 because junk rifle suits more into mad max

Hunting rifle still IS Tier 1. Pipe Rifle is Tier 0 - primitive. lever action is Tier 2 and sniper is Tier 3.

[Matt115]

13 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

Hunting rifle still IS Tier 1. Pipe Rifle is Tier 0 - primitive. lever action is Tier 2 and sniper is Tier 3.

Okay i will explain - in most game you have colour or number 1 - X . So - without "pipe " tier in more suitable version i would suggest - tier 1 muskete , tier 2 hunting rifle but with bullet mag without mod tier 3 marksman rifle ( military sniper rifle) 

[JCrook1028]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:07 PM, Matt115 said:

Okay i will explain - in most game you have colour or number 1 - X . So - without "pipe " tier in more suitable version i would suggest - tier 1 muskete , tier 2 hunting rifle but with bullet mag without mod tier 3 marksman rifle ( military sniper rifle) 

So where would the lever action fit then since you're adding a 4th gun into the rifle line after taking out the primitive tier 0?

[Matt115]

1 minute ago, JCrook1028 said:

So where would the lever action fit then since you're adding a 4th gun into the rifle line after taking out the primitive tier 0?

As legendary hunting rifle only - well lever action rifle are easier to broke that bolt action gun or semi-action gun. So this would be good game if 7dtd was in this same year as outbreake but 7dtd happens maybe after 20-30 years so best option would be just put this as legendary gun in ghost town.  Well ak47 could be change into m16 for example but keep ak47 as legendary gun

Okay well it is too late to change skill tree so this is best solution.

Ofc the best idea could added more modern guns like m14 , HK, more modern shotguns , m249 etc but if they don't want just change models and it could be good enough. 

I have more comments about diffrent things like variants of zombies, poi etc so guns are just a part of this

[Kyonshi]

Well, that's just your opinion. The Pimps build a world that they wanted to see and into which some elements are interpreted the way they see fit. Also, suspension of disbelief doesnt hurt, it serves both game design and story setting.

 

There's nothing to fix here. This is artistic design and this is at the discretion of the creators. Anything you listed in your post remains speculative. Nobody except Rick and Joel know what really happened to the world of 7DTD, Navezgane and the zombies that populate the area.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Kyonshi (see edit history)

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

Well, that's just your opinion. The Pimps build a world that they wanted to see and into which some elements are interpreted the way they see fit. Also, suspension of disbelief doesnt hurt, it serves both game design and story setting.

 

There's nothing to fix here. This is artistic design and this is at the discretion of the creators. Anything you listed in your post remains speculative. Nobody except Rick and Joel know what really happened to the world of 7DTD, Navezgane and the zombies that populate the area.

By that logic they can add zombie unicorn too. 

I will  explain this using Call of duty vanguard as example- in some SP japan mission japanish soldiers using using STG44. If this change gameplay? nope. If this hurt setting and artstyle? yes.

So- ofc devs can put everything they want but this doesn't mean it will be good

[Maharin]

54 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

So- ofc devs can put everything they want but this doesn't mean it will be good

 

Good compared to what?  As was said, this is TFP's game and the default version will be as they want it to be (good in their eyes).  However, we have the option to mod it to our liking which most games do not offer, at least to the extent that 7DTD offers.  Most people that buy the game after it is released will probably like and play it "as is" without ever modding it (at least until Steam Workshop integration is in full swing), though that will likely include some that simply file it away in their library after some play time, never to play it again.

[Kyonshi]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

By that logic they can add zombie unicorn too. 

I will  explain this using Call of duty vanguard as example- in some SP japan mission japanish soldiers using using STG44. If this change gameplay? nope. If this hurt setting and artstyle? yes.

So- ofc devs can put everything they want but this doesn't mean it will be good

Its not because i mentioned "suspension of disbelief" that this is the excuse to put any @%$#ed concepts in the game... 🙄 Do you even understand what that means?

 

The game is set in a specific frame : you evolve in a dystopian, post-apocalyptic world, where both a nuclear war and viral cataclysm occured. This resulted in the main threat you're facing, zombies, which are, at the best of our knowledge, reanimated corpses that underwent the process from either the viral outbreak, lab experiments or a combination of both. If you raid the Higashi Pharmaceutical POI, you'll know what im talking about.

 

So, no, this isnt the Carebears and there wont be unicorns...

 

Again, your point of view is interpretative and far from confirming anything wrong with the narrative thread of the game setting and story. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Kyonshi (see edit history)

[Matt115]

38 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

Good compared to what?  As was said, this is TFP's game and the default version will be as they want it to be (good in their eyes).  However, we have the option to mod it to our liking which most games do not offer, at least to the extent that 7DTD offers.  Most people that buy the game after it is released will probably like and play it "as is" without ever modding it (at least until Steam Workshop integration is in full swing), though that will likely include some that simply file it away in their library after some play time, never to play it again.

I will write about this in two parts.

1.bought this game before 2016- maybe in 2014 or 2015 i don't remember. But for me A11 give vibes it will be something like.. f.e.a.r 1 & 2  mixed with minecraft gameplay. I mean by this - depressing dark setting. And it was that way so much - you spawn near halve eaten body, night were rly creepy so was rly sure this game is going in this way. But now? it looks too much like something between mad max and well something like mix forests from days gone cities from gta and rest from battleground.  So this give my vibes its it mad max but in forest with zombies. I expected focusing on kiling zombies and horror elements.  Ofc moders zombie games let us see that zombie game don't need to be "gray" horror like days gone or the last of us or dying light - but both of this game but... these games are "colorfull" but in this same time "realistic" - zombie teens in days gone and dying light,  blood and decying corpses everywhere, hanging people , occult  ( i mean - this don't need too have magic etc just put dead survivor in church and writing "this is punishment for our sins".

2. yeah people can mod everything - but honestly do you think that snufkin zombies or creature pack zombie suits too 7dtd if you want too keep realistic setting? ( by realistic setting i mean  zombies in no more room in hell, dying light or normal zombies from resident evil 2) i think not.  Yep they will like this but - i will give you the forest as example- people this buying this game but a lot of people hate "worm". And honestly 7dtd doesn't have any rivial game - the forest building system is just bad and limited, valheim is fantasy game. So 7dtd is unique - so even if someone want to find something similiar they coudn't. Well about this problem with most of the people- everygame unfortunatyl have this problem and a lot of games even easy achivments get 20-30% of players 😕

33 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

Its not because i mentioned "suspension of disbelie"f that this is the excuse to put any @%$#ed concepts in the game... 🙄 Do you even understand what that means?

 

The game is set in a specific frame : you evolve in a dystopian, post-apocalyptic world, where both a nuclear war and viral cataclysm occured. This resulted in the main threat you're facing, zombies, which are, at the best of our knowledge, reanimated corpses that underwent the process from either the viral outbreak, lab experiments or a combination of both. If you raid the Higashi Pharmaceutical POI, you'll know what im talking about.

 

So, no, this isnt the Carebears and there wont be unicorns...

 

Again, your point of view is interpretative and far from confirming anything wrong with the narrative thread of the game setting and story. 

about experiments- okay if they will make spider zombie like experiment they made mistake by changing wight from mutant form into just "powerfull" but normal reanimated corpse.  idk if you play in days gone or l4d2- setting in both this games is coherent

 

 

 

Btw  to everybody - i now it is too late to change setting of 7dtd so i think in way " how to avoid this same problem in future" 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Maharin]

21 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

I will write about this in two parts.

1.bought this game before 2016- maybe in 2014 or 2015 i don't remember. But for me A11 give vibes it will be something like.. f.e.a.r 1 & 2  mixed with minecraft gameplay. I mean by this - depressing dark setting. And it was that way so much - you spawn near halve eaten body, night were rly creepy so was rly sure this game is going in this way. But now? it looks too much like something between mad max and well something like mix forests from days gone cities from gta and rest from battleground.  So this give my vibes its it mad max but in forest with zombies. I expected focusing on kiling zombies and horror elements.  Ofc moders zombie games let us see that zombie game don't need to be "gray" horror like days gone or the last of us or dying light - but both of this game but... these games are "colorfull" but in this same time "realistic" - zombie teens in days gone and dying light,  blood and decying corpses everywhere, hanging people , occult  ( i mean - this don't need too have magic etc just put dead survivor in church and writing "this is punishment for our sins".

2. yeah people can mod everything - but honestly do you think that snufkin zombies or creature pack zombie suits too 7dtd if you want too keep realistic setting? ( by realistic setting i mean  zombies in no more room in hell, dying light or normal zombies from resident evil 2) i think not.  Yep they will like this but - i will give you the forest as example- people this buying this game but a lot of people hate "worm". And honestly 7dtd doesn't have any rivial game - the forest building system is just bad and limited, valheim is fantasy game. So 7dtd is unique - so even if someone want to find something similiar they coudn't. Well about this problem with most of the people- everygame unfortunatyl have this problem and a lot of games even easy achivments get 20-30% of players 😕

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse or anything like that, but you understand this game is currently in constant development, right?  They started this with a Kickstarter campaign and are doing their best to meet everything they promised from there with some extra stuff thrown in for free.   They've already said they will do at least some additional updates after release.  They may even write mods for their own game, who knows for sure?

 

Point is that this game is a moving target and your #1 above just illustrates that.  It's not final until it is released... and not even then, really.  It is currently in Early Access and alpha to boot so complaining how it has changed is kind of ridiculous.  The people buying it after release will likely not know much of the history of each alpha and only will if they decide to do a whole lot of reading on the forums, which the vast majority of people will not do.  They will play it for what it is and either like it or they won't.  Some will mod it to their liking, but most won't do that, either.  This has the potential to be a very popular game once released but it will never be Minecraft because it takes a hell of a lot more powerful of a computer to run it.

 

I honestly have no idea what your point for #2 is, sorry.

 

[Matt115]

21 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse or anything like that, but you understand this game is currently in constant development, right?  They started this with a Kickstarter campaign and are doing their best to meet everything they promised from there with some extra stuff thrown in for free.   They've already said they will do at least some additional updates after release.  They may even write mods for their own game, who knows for sure?

 

Point is that this game is a moving target and your #1 above just illustrates that.  It's not final until it is released... and not even then, really.  It is currently in Early Access and alpha to boot so complaining how it has changed is kind of ridiculous.  The people buying it after release will likely not know much of the history of each alpha and only will if they decide to do a whole lot of reading on the forums, which the vast majority of people will not do.  They will play it for what it is and either like it or they won't.  Some will mod it to their liking, but most won't do that, either.  This has the potential to be a very popular game once released but it will never be Minecraft because it takes a hell of a lot more powerful of a computer to run it.

 

I honestly have no idea what your point for #2 is, sorry.

 

1. yeah i know but i hope you see new armor concept art and i'm 100% sure how guns now looks like.  So this looks like typical post apo larp or mad max. So art style will not change - well i don't except they will go in division or days gone style with that. So yep this is still alpha but it soon to be "finished" - i think beta will be just story mode + fixing bugs. We know that they are working on 2-3 games so creating mods by them is rly low chance idea.  About minecraft - yep 7dtd was minecraft with  zombie setting you probably know how it was looking at.. So smooth terrain is good change but- make world so bright and cut whispers, screams, random corpses on street no.

2. i will try to explain this in diffrent way - i will give you skyrim and swbf2 classic as example- in skyrim you can find 3 types of mods : 1. sex mods ( everything peverted in snowdog style) 2. silly/fun mods 3. realistic mods

i will focus on last type of mods - you can put there immersive mods - realistic sword and armors, lore friendly enemies ( gigant spider suit well . skeleton dragon too, zombies ofc, kid bandits too but shrek, woody from toy story  or anime girl not) , realistic new systems like hunger cold etc

BF classic have something similiar - realistic ( AKA lore friendly) and funny mods- 1 type - battle droids as standard droid,  old republic period etc and second  type- shrek with lightsabers , meme textures pinky stormtroopers etc.

7DTD at least for now have 2 types of mods : realistic mechanic mods like looting zombie corpses or funny mods like most mods made by Xyn or snufkin. We still don't have lot of ( with few exception but there are some problems with this mods too ) realistic mods yet- like more guns  mod but keep "what rly someone could find" - m14? probably yes  ( i don't live in USA so i think maybe army keep this as "last chance" guns) , m249? yep, springfield and garant? maybe as rare guns. mp 40? nope .  let's say about zombies- what types could  be added by mods and could suits good- zombie teens ? yep (we have schools, walking dead have zombie kids, this same no more room in hell or days gone), zombie in swat armor? yep. police in police riot armor? yep. diffrent type of hazmat? yep . Barefoot yoga girl? yep. Yeti , flying zombie doctor, gigant with miniguns, santa claus, japan school girl? nope. etc 

So we still don't have realistic mods type so i'm worring about that- enemy terrtory gets tons of fun mods and it is dead, this same KF1. 

Well argument like : " you always can do your own mods this right?" or "if you hate something do this yourself better  " doesn't working. Could you make hd zombie model with similar quality to screamer? i think no so I. and somethings can you learn some not. i was trying to learn how to paint models ( i mean for example warhammer models) and i just can't. Well programing stuff is above my limits too. why? mental disorder so i make a lot of grammar mistakes and this not depends on me. 

But i want only complain so i'm doing what i can - writing about problems and my ideas. If some modder would ask me how i think should looks like - i can help with that. If someone from devs  would ask for help how something could work or looks like - i would decscribe as best as i can. But do more that describing and giving advice is unfortunatly above my limits