Traders should be open all night

[Mahnogard]

13 minutes ago, ricp said:

On the flip side, we can turn on Feral Sense which, while not nerfing the trader progression, will slow progression simply due to the number of bodies thrown at you.

I can attest to the fact that Feral Sense turns a quick jaunt to the Laundromat for questy goodness into a Pied-Piperesque exercise in zombie collection with me repairing my noob club three times before even getting where I'm going. But it was fun jogging down the street singing, "Come on zombies, follow me! I'm the zombie piper, follow me, I'm the zombie piper, and I'll beat you in the head..."

 

(Don't look at me like that. Don't tell me that none of you sing to the zombies.)

[ricp]

27 minutes ago, Mahnogard said:

I can attest to the fact that Feral Sense turns a quick jaunt to the Laundromat for questy goodness into a Pied-Piperesque exercise in zombie collection with me repairing my noob club three times before even getting where I'm going. But it was fun jogging down the street singing, "Come on zombies, follow me! I'm the zombie piper, follow me, I'm the zombie piper, and I'll beat you in the head..."

 

(Don't look at me like that. Don't tell me that none of you sing to the zombies.)

 

Yeah, it's definitely a good addition for more experienced players, it perhaps needs a little balancing in the first day or two simply to stop you battling against hordes when you are weak with poor weapons, but far from "undoable".

 

As for singing? Got to admit I'm more the sweary kind than the siren type.

[RyanX]

On 12/20/2021 at 11:16 AM, ricp said:

 

Completely unrelated, and no dig at Kage, I'd really like to see the "change my mind" meme removed from the meme library purely because the "joke" is Crowder is a racist piece of s**t (happy to show examples) and he never changes his mind about it.

That's purely an opinion.  I don't think he is racist at all, but talks about uncomfortable subjects many don't like to hear.  Thus one has to use racism as an excuse to make someone go away (i.e. censor) so one doesn't have to feel "uncomfortable" or feel that their "safe space" has been invaded.

 

In regards to the OP:

It would be unrealistic to have a trader open 24 hours, I mean the shop owner has to sleep some time!  Heck, even now it's strange that they are open for 14-16 hours a day 7 days a week.  I suppose if they live there they could do some extended hours.  Or maybe have another employee that runs it for half the day.

 

I like the idea of random times, maybe even a 24 hour trader here and there...but they all close down for Blood Moon.

Edited December 31, 2021 by RyanX (see edit history)

[astynax777]

6 hours ago, ricp said:

 

So don't say anything then, it's clear we disagree, and your assumption that I am either pompous or elitist for calling out racism is again something you'll need to deal with yourself.

 

Cool.  I won't say anything... so long as you don't come in here and inject your politics into things, act like your view is the unarguable truth, denigrate people by saying if they disagree with your views on the trader then they must be "less experienced or less competent", and tell everyone that if they disagree with your absolute truths that they are the ones who have the problem.  If you never diverted from the topic this wouldn't have happened.  Live and learn.

 

7 hours ago, ricp said:

I've provided more detail on the affect A20 trader changes make on character progression. As an experienced player, and I presume you are one too, it's quite noticeable, but I feel it's more accidental than intentional. I don't think TFP realised how easy it would be to grind out the quests when the distances were reduced, and I think the addition of the bike after tier 1 was more a nod to those who were maybe struggling a bit at the start. Those two things, while not "bad" additions to the game, have come together to have a bigger influence than maybe expected.

 

On the flip side, we can turn on Feral Sense which, while not nerfing the trader progression, will slow progression simply due to the number of bodies thrown at you.

 

I agree with you that it's pretty darn easy to get dukes now with the new questing rewards and trader location.  For Kage - it's pretty nice that he doesn't have a lot of traveling time for his videos and streams.  I think that's where this whole thing is coming from - he doesn't want to waste a lot of time traveling or stuck inside at night (especially early game where the risk/reward is not worth it).  If you look at his last stream - it was pretty awesome with the trader open at night as it created an incentive to keep questing during the night which lead to some pretty epic scenarios (encountering a wandering horde in the city all running at them with some funny deaths).  He was also able to get a bike early on so that he didn't have to spend like 20 minutes running to the trader in the next down.  Sure, we're not all streamers, but I for one can appreciate the timesavers that the trader brings to the game if I choose to play that way - and I think that's what it's all about.  I don't think TFP should force people to play the game a certain way and have to struggle with boring/long walks/nights.  The more options they can give so people can play the game the way they want - the better IMO.

28 minutes ago, RyanX said:

It would be unrealistic to have a trader open 24 hours, I mean the shop owner has to sleep some time!  Heck, even now it's strange that they are open for 14-16 hours a day 7 days a week.  I suppose if they live there they could do some extended hours.  Or maybe have another employee that runs it for half the day.

 

I like the idea of random times, maybe even a 24 hour trader here and there...but they all close down for Blood Moon.

 

Haha I like how we talk about realism in a game with zombies that can break through steel with just their hands and that gives you the ability to craft a 4x4 vehicle by using just a workbench.    So would you like the ability to customize the trader's hours?  I.E. allow 24-7 or make it random?  I'm all for that.

[ricp]

@RyanX @astynax777

 

I said I was finished discussing the subject, however I really need to make something clear to both of you. This isn't an argument of "your" interpretation of racism and "my" interpretation of racism. This is about taking the tenets of racism, highlighted by decades of experts working in the field, and holding them up against Crowder's output. In that sense he is a racist. It really is as simple as that. The analogy here is someone saying, for example, "a car is not a car" despite all the experts going, "nope, that's definitely a car". Trying to spin it as some over-arching political agenda is asinine, and a tactic oft used when those they like, or admire, fail to adhere to common decency standards. Be very aware that I am not calling either of you racists. I don't know you, I have no context of your life, so I am in no position to make any judgement about your intentions, nor you mine.

 

Bottom line, if I was to post "contentious" Crowder quotes on here, those quotes would be either removed or I would be banned as a member, and rightly so. I think that tells you all you need to know.

 

If you wish to continue this discussion in DMs, then no problem. There is no personal element here, and I do not believe I have in any way been rude or insulting during this exchange and would like to continue in that vein.

 

 

--- anyway, back to the topic...

 

11 hours ago, RyanX said:

I like the idea of random times, maybe even a 24 hour trader here and there...but they all close down for Blood Moon.

 

Closed for Blood Moon would be a nice touch, and I can imagine a playthrough with people who are bad at planning getting absolutely stung by not checking the days. I noticed when I went to Joel recently, he told me there was a Blood Moon coming, albeit he was 2 days early but I suppose technically he's not wrong, so it fits in with the lore. He could just "pack up for the day" knowing the horde was due.

 

Now at this point I'd like to add in that, for me, I dislike the protection the trader bases have. It's like nothing else in the game and stands out as an anomaly while hinting at a "solution to a problem" (ie: zombies destroying the trader) when a more elegant solution could be found. In some mods the traders can be broken (and built upon) with guards taking the place of indestructibility. Those guards are, in general, hilariously bad. However replacing them with, for example turrets and building the traders as near zombie proof, in the same way we do so for our own bases, perhaps with traps to kill of any stragglers that somehow manage to work their way in would seem more fitting. I get how important traders are now, and TFP doesn't want them destroyed in game, but they really should fit in with the meta of the game, ie: everything is destructible.

 

 

11 hours ago, astynax777 said:

I agree with you that it's pretty darn easy to get dukes now with the new questing rewards and trader location.  For Kage - it's pretty nice that he doesn't have a lot of traveling time for his videos and streams.  I think that's where this whole thing is coming from - he doesn't want to waste a lot of time traveling or stuck inside at night (especially early game where the risk/reward is not worth it).  If you look at his last stream - it was pretty awesome with the trader open at night as it created an incentive to keep questing during the night which lead to some pretty epic scenarios (encountering a wandering horde in the city all running at them with some funny deaths).  He was also able to get a bike early on so that he didn't have to spend like 20 minutes running to the trader in the next down.  Sure, we're not all streamers, but I for one can appreciate the timesavers that the trader brings to the game if I choose to play that way - and I think that's what it's all about.  I don't think TFP should force people to play the game a certain way and have to struggle with boring/long walks/nights.  The more options they can give so people can play the game the way they want - the better IMO.

 

It's all balancing I suppose, although imo the very last people TFP should be designing the game for are streamers. They are not your typical gamer and do not follow typical gamer loops.

 

Of the the two changes made (closer quests, early bike) they seemed to have combined inside an already much easier alpha to make the progression far quicker. In A20 I no longer farm, because it's badly nerfed and the traders have tons of cheap crops, nor do I mine, because of the changes to the building system (much less iron needed) and the sheer amount of "above ground" resources. The game has definitely changed, and I'll be totally honest with you, I'm not sure all of it is for the better. Again, balancing is the key here, and I'm not someone who will drop the game because they introduce mechanics I don't like - you just adapt your play style, right?

 

[meganoth]

As moderator I have to say you all have a hard time dropping a specific subject that is against forum rules. I will help you with that: The next one even glancing sidewises in that direction will get a warning, his post deleted anyway and this thread will be locked.