Enemies

[MaxTunnerX]

I must say that I'm very disappointed with the path the game has taken with the enemies. Every build is less and less playable for me by default without mods. Nowadays I always have to start new games with no enemy spawning or just revert to older versions. Stuff that I hate the most is:

 

There is a zombie in literally every building (that's annoying and also non-immersive).

Half of the zombies run even at "walk" setting (dogs, cops etc.).

Heat map in general (I like living in what I've built, not to move to random location every once in a while).

Zombies don't really act like zombies and if they don't see you, they destroy everything in their path for no reason.

Zombies can even dig now (underground structures were the last hope of building something permanent before).

Zombies' difficulty scales with your game progress which nullifies any effort you put into getting better and doesn't feel immersive/realistic at all.

 

For that reason I suggest to:

Add "force walk only" option to the settings which would make even dogs and cops walk.

Adjust the zombie AI so if they aren't pursuing you, they go around obstacles rather than destroy them (unless blocked from all sides).

Add "remove heatmap" option so people can choose if they want to be nomads or not.

Add "enemy scaling off" option so people can choose if they want enemies to scale or not.

 

Until then I and other people will have to keep using modded blocks that can't be destroyed or disabling enemy spawning or just straight downgrading the game to have some fun.

Edited June 29, 2021 by MaxTunnerX (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

Huh?  I don't find the heatmap forcing me to move.....I must be missing something.

 

Also, a lot of what you put in there as options seems to me simply asking to remove any difficulty in the game......

[Vinceras]

-Rummaging through POIs with no risk sounds sooooooooo rewarding and fun.

-Zombies have a chance to go into a frenzy mode when they take damage.  Dogs...well, they are dogs.  They are fast.

-I have NEVER had an issue with the heat map forcing me to move.  Sounds like you have your forges running 24/7 and are mad because the zombies are attracted to heat.

-Zombies don't act like zombies?  ummmm what?  Do you have a working knowledge of how real life zombies are or something? 

-Zombies have been able to dig for a while now.  You can still build underground with no issue.  Just have your forges and heat-attractors up at ground level.

-What fun is a game where there is never any risk?

 

-Sure I guess? 
-Never had an issue where zombies just go into break everything mode for no reason.  Seriously no clue how you are having this problem.

-I guess?  If someone really wants to neuter the game to where there is no risk, I guess it's their choice?

-See the above.

 

 

So long as they are all added options and not made base game, I'm okay with any of these options.  I prefer to actually play a game instead of watching grass grow, myself.

[Anxiety123]

14 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Zombies' difficulty scales with your game progress which nullifies any effort you put into getting better and doesn't feel immersive/realistic at all.

 

I agree that zombies scaling primarily with your level isn't ideal.  Enemy spawns should probably scale less with your level and more with days survived.  I say "days survived" instead of "game day" because new players may join a server on Day 50 or whatever.  Maybe halve the level component and double the time component.

 

2 hours ago, Vinceras said:

-Rummaging through POIs with no risk sounds sooooooooo rewarding and fun.

 

Zombie movies often feature empty streets and empty buildings.  Think of the start to 28 Days Later, for example.  Adding more low-loot non-quest remnant POIs with few or no zombies could provide a spookier atmosphere.  An empty space can be more unnerving than one visibly crawling with monsters.  On the other hand, this game isn't really designed to be spooky.  It's more about scavenging and tower defense.  Anyway, the OP seems more concerned with aesthetics here whereas you're more concerned with gameplay.

 

2 hours ago, Vinceras said:

-Zombies have a chance to go into a frenzy mode when they take damage.  Dogs...well, they are dogs.  They are fast.

 

By default, standard zombies only walk during the day.  It's not unreasonable to suggest that zombie animals do likewise.  While you could suggest zombie animals are always feral, "feral" clearly doesn't simply mean "wild" here.  Feral zombie eyes glow unnaturally.  There are even weird glowing (radiated) zombies.

 

2 hours ago, Vinceras said:

-Zombies don't act like zombies?  ummmm what?  Do you have a working knowledge of how real life zombies are or something?

 

This game's zombies do not adhere to well-known zombie tropes.  "Zombies aren't real" isn't an argument.  In this game, they magically know the layout of areas they can't see.  They have a mystical sense for structural integrity.  It's weird.  They didn't even have those abilities prior to, what, Alpha 17?  They used to behave like dumb zombies.  I sometimes wish they were dumber and less exploitable on horde night.  It's very easy to control their pathfinding right now.  In fact, understanding their mystic knowledge is critical to smart base design.

 

2 hours ago, Vinceras said:

-Never had an issue where zombies just go into break everything mode for no reason.  Seriously no clue how you are having this problem.

 

Even when they aren't raging, Alpha 19's zombies are weirdly and randomly destructive.  I've seen zombies in open fields break the dirt beneath their feet.  On a smooth slope.  When they weren't stuck.  I've also seen zombies and wolves randomly attack and destroy grass.  Not terrain.  The grass you get 2 plant fibers from.  Currently, zombieFatHawaiian frequently turns away from me to beat on random blocks instead of attacking me.  It's not just a matter of them breaking obstacles.  They're downright chaotic.

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Anxiety123 said:

 

 ...They're downright chaotic.

 

Which I consider a feature.

 

Suggestion to @MaxTunnerX : Just dig a moat around your crafting base and fill it with traps, make a drawbridge for access. Use a seperate horde base. Then you can build a fashionable or permanent house and no zombie will ever lay its dirty hands on any block of your house.

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Anxiety123]

25 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Suggestion to @MaxTunnerX : Just dig a moat around your crafting base and fill it with traps, make a drawbridge for access. Use a seperate horde base. Then you can build a fashionable house and no zombie will ever lay its dirty hands on any block of your house. (The alternative would be to turn off zombies completely)

 

Never combine horde and production bases.  Always separate them.

 

Instead of a moat, I suggest doubling the thickness of the outside walls, then placing two layers of hatches just inside your door.  The thick walls will encourage zombies to use the door.  When they arrive, you can throw up the hatches, open the door, and wallop them from a secure position.  It's unlikely that anything but a blood moon horde will breach the first hatch.  If they do, the second hatch should give you enough time to escape.  Be sure you have an escape route.  I always have a ladder to the roof.

 

If your base is too large, you may need to triple the wall thickness to ensure they approach the door.  The occasional zombie will take a few swings at the wall, but it should stop when it recalculates its path.

 

Actually, I said nothing should breach it, but that's not quite true.  Technically, dogs, crawlers, and spiders are short enough to squeeze through a one-block gap.  They usually don't.  Sometimes one of them will step on another crawler and then over the hatch.  It's not too common, but it happens.

 

That said, I'm rather anxious about Alpha 20.  I fear the upcoming "zombies crawl through gaps" feature will ruin hatch hallways.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Anxiety123 (see edit history)

[Vinceras]

6 hours ago, Anxiety123 said:

 

I agree that zombies scaling primarily with your level isn't ideal.  Enemy spawns should probably scale less with your level and more with days survived.  I say "days survived" instead of "game day" because new players may join a server on Day 50 or whatever.  Maybe halve the level component and double the time component.

 

 

Zombie movies often feature empty streets and empty buildings.  Think of the start to 28 Days Later, for example.  Adding more low-loot non-quest remnant POIs with few or no zombies could provide a spookier atmosphere.  An empty space can be more unnerving than one visibly crawling with monsters.  On the other hand, this game isn't really designed to be spooky.  It's more about scavenging and tower defense.  Anyway, the OP seems more concerned with aesthetics here whereas you're more concerned with gameplay.

 

 

By default, standard zombies only walk during the day.  It's not unreasonable to suggest that zombie animals do likewise.  While you could suggest zombie animals are always feral, "feral" clearly doesn't simply mean "wild" here.  Feral zombie eyes glow unnaturally.  There are even weird glowing (radiated) zombies.

 

 

This game's zombies do not adhere to well-known zombie tropes.  "Zombies aren't real" isn't an argument.  In this game, they magically know the layout of areas they can't see.  They have a mystical sense for structural integrity.  It's weird.  They didn't even have those abilities prior to, what, Alpha 17?  They used to behave like dumb zombies.  I sometimes wish they were dumber and less exploitable on horde night.  It's very easy to control their pathfinding right now.  In fact, understanding their mystic knowledge is critical to smart base design.

 

 

Even when they aren't raging, Alpha 19's zombies are weirdly and randomly destructive.  I've seen zombies in open fields break the dirt beneath their feet.  On a smooth slope.  When they weren't stuck.  I've also seen zombies and wolves randomly attack and destroy grass.  Not terrain.  The grass you get 2 plant fibers from.  Currently, zombieFatHawaiian frequently turns away from me to beat on random blocks instead of attacking me.  It's not just a matter of them breaking obstacles.  They're downright chaotic.

 

I dunno, to me wanting a 'realistic' zombie experience just cracks me up.  Zombie tropes are broken in zombie movies ALL the time.

 

If they scale by day, what happens if you are leveling slow because you are spending most of your early game days digging through these new low-loot no-zombie remnants that the OP and you are talking about?  So now you are underleveled, undergeared, and surrounded by a higher threat.  Difficulty tied to level is ideal because it's easier to keep zombie strength closer in line with yours.

 

Zombie dogs walk around during the day too...until they see you and they run at you.  I don't see any problem here.  What is the issue with dogs running? 

[BFT2020]

7 hours ago, Anxiety123 said:

 

Never combine horde and production bases.  Always separate them.

 

I do that (In my current playthrough and my previous playthrough).  I was at Day 125 when I got bored with it and restarted over.  You can successfully setup a base to do both.

[MaxTunnerX]

Good to see the topic got so much traction. Just to answer some of the replies in here shortly:

 

Yes, dogs are fast but they can walk, can't they? So just make them walk in game too. And flying enemies surely can fly slower too (or walk), especially since zombie animals (with damaged wings) would. In fact, flying animals would probably prefer to walk, they even prefer to walk in real life when they are healthy, let alone ill/injured (zombified).

 

I'm not asking for all POI to be empty, but make it a random chance, sometimes there's no zombie in, sometimes there's 1, sometimes there are more... It's utter nonsense to put a zombie in every house and it's very boring.

 

Also I've noticed someone complain about lowering difficulty, to that I say - let people decide what experience they want, nobody is forcing you to play the game that way.

 

As far as scaling goes, changing it from level to days doesn't really cut it for me. It would only mean I would have to reset days when it gets too difficult or start a new game. In other words, doing the same thing as now with level.

 

As far as using current mechanics to circumvent the problems goes, that doesn't work for me either. At level 1 you just can't dig a moat or have traps everywhere and I also want my base to look more civilized rather than spammed with traps.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by MaxTunnerX (see edit history)

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Good to see the topic got so much traction. Just to answer some of the replies in here shortly:

 

Yes, dogs are fast but they can walk, can't they? So just make them walk in game too. And flying enemies surely can fly slower too (or walk), especially since zombie animals (with damaged wings) would. In fact, flying animals would probably prefer to walk, they even prefer to walk in real life when they are healthy, let alone ill/injured (zombified).

 

I'm not asking for all POI to be empty, but make it a random chance, sometimes there's no zombie in, sometimes there's 1, sometimes there are more... It's utter nonsense to put a zombie in every house and it's very boring.

 

Also I've noticed someone complain about lowering difficulty, to that I say - let people decide what experience they want, nobody is forcing you to play the game that way.

 

As far as scaling goes, changing it from level to days doesn't really cut it for me. It would only mean I would have to reset days when it gets too difficult or start a new game. In other words, doing the same thing as now with level.

 

As far as using current mechanics to circumvent the problems goes, that doesn't work for me either. At level 1 you just can't dig a moat or have traps everywhere and I also want my base to look more civilized rather than spammed with traps.

 

 

The number of zombies in a poi IS random (just maybe not random enough for your taste).

 

About this notion of a home base without a scratch: One of the goals the devs have announced for their game is that there never will be a place where you are completely safe. Many players seem to want that even though this is a zombie horror game, but changes which would result in a safe place won't ever be in vanilla. This is easily done in mods and maybe eventually with an in-game option, but options are low-priority and will be very selectively chosen, so don't bank on it.

 

Yes, as a lvl1 you can't start with a moat. But it is entirely possible to start with wood spikes surrounding your base and eventually replacing them with less conspicuous defenses like a moat. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vinceras]

3 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Good to see the topic got so much traction. Just to answer some of the replies in here shortly:

 

Yes, dogs are fast but they can walk, can't they? So just make them walk in game too. And flying enemies surely can fly slower too (or walk), especially since zombie animals (with damaged wings) would. In fact, flying animals would probably prefer to walk, they even prefer to walk in real life when they are healthy, let alone ill/injured (zombified).

 

I'm not asking for all POI to be empty, but make it a random chance, sometimes there's no zombie in, sometimes there's 1, sometimes there are more... It's utter nonsense to put a zombie in every house and it's very boring.

 

Also I've noticed someone complain about lowering difficulty, to that I say - let people decide what experience they want, nobody is forcing you to play the game that way.

 

As far as scaling goes, changing it from level to days doesn't really cut it for me. It would only mean I would have to reset days when it gets too difficult or start a new game. In other words, doing the same thing as now with level.

 

As far as using current mechanics to circumvent the problems goes, that doesn't work for me either. At level 1 you just can't dig a moat or have traps everywhere and I also want my base to look more civilized rather than spammed with traps.

 

Sorry I was so snappy on my other reply to you.  It was a rough day, and I was in an argumentative and snarky mood. 

 

Anyway, you can build quite a luxurious base at the moment, combine it with a horde base setup and be perfectly safe if you set things up right.  Even late game.  If you haven't done so yet, I'd suggest checking out JaWoodle on youtube.  The guy theorycrafts bases and has made some that are entirely zombie-proof.  Almost all of them involve some mechanics that take advantage of the AI, but I don't think that's necessarily cheap....since if we were in a real zombie apocalypse and we noticed that all the zombies had a particular weakness, we would all take advantage of it.  You could build a smaller version of a almost perfectly safe base even at level one without the use of traps.

 

It does make sense that the birds would have difficulty flying to me, but zombies and dogs doing more than shuffling makes sense to me too.  To me, it mostly boils down to the fantasy-fact that zombies have no pain registration, so they are easily able to use their bodies at peak performance regardless.  Now, if muscle mass is gone, then I think that would mean they aren't able to perform anymore....so, boneys like from Warm Bodies wouldn't be a thing.

[MaxTunnerX]

Thanks for the new replies. I might check those tips. I just don't understand why devs are so hellbent on making the game more fustrating to everyone (almost feels like Dark Souls to me and I hate that concept). Why didn't they just divide the path along the way instead of forcing us to play the same thing? 

Whenever I play alpha 7, 8 or 9, game feels much more like how I imagine it. Why they had to discard it is beyond me. Hopefully some options will be made in the future. And there is the ray of hope in form of devs having completely discarded wellness, which was the worst thing ever done in this game. As for traps, the only reason, apart from aesthetics, why I'm opposed to using them is that they get instantly damaged, especially the wooden spikes.

There is nothing more boring than constant maintenance of things.

Edited July 2, 2021 by MaxTunnerX (see edit history)

[meganoth]

At what difficulty are you playing this game? Are you using any mods to increase zombie spawn? I am a bit astonished about the radically different impressions we get. Do you build multiple forges and put up lots of torches or lights into your base in the early game already?

 

I usually play nomad aka 2 aka the setting where everything does excactly the damage as stated.  And there I can place a row of wood spikes around a base and at many screamers will die in that row before even a single one of those spikes is gone. Naturally that only works when screamers don't detect you and neither look for the weak way in or already spawn new zombies.

 

At night that means I better be stealthed inside the base, at day I am gone anyway and because of the way the game works no zombie will ever spawn while I'm away. In early game I start with one forge and one or two torches in my base.

 

But I always use a poi for base and don't care much about its condition. In my last SP game I took over a normal house and they broke the door and made another hole into a side wall of the house both of which I never fixed, but those were the only blocks missing from the outside wall for the whole playing time of ~60 in-game days.

 

 

[MaxTunnerX]

I play at Nomad difficulty. Also keep in mind that basically every time I play it's a different alpha so it's hard to compare. POIs are out of the question, no idea how you can survive there for longer than 5 mins. Otherwise I just make a small base the first couple of days. Usual stuff, one forge, torches to keep light and stuff. What kept happening to me in last several alphas was that after a couple days zombies really amassed around my (underground) base. Blood moon was even worse cause of laser predator sight. In any case, every time they walked through they just destroyed everything above ground (or almost) and only left me with my underground part.

 

I tried the newest alpha a few days ago and already I got zombies on me couple minutes in and I couldn't even build the base without being harassed. I tried making an underground base but zombies started digging so I just gave up. As for the spikes, last time I used them (year or two ago), they went blunt after 2 or 3 zombies and if I put them in a moat zombies would take minor damage and then start attacking the dirt, digging into my base so no effect at all.

 

I could let all of the problems I have with the game's enemies slide if only they weren't able to dig. I would just build a bunker like always and let them do whatever they want on the surface. But now I can't do even that. Luckily my friend and savior war3zuk still updates the indestructible blocks mod so I'm using that now.

Edited July 2, 2021 by MaxTunnerX (see edit history)

[Darklegend222]

7 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Thanks for the new replies. I might check those tips. I just don't understand why devs are so hellbent on making the game more fustrating to everyone (almost feels like Dark Souls to me and I hate that concept). Why didn't they just divide the path along the way instead of forcing us to play the same thing? 

Whenever I play alpha 7, 8 or 9, game feels much more like how I imagine it. Why they had to discard it is beyond me. Hopefully some options will be made in the future. And there is the ray of hope in form of devs having completely discarded wellness, which was the worst thing ever done in this game. As for traps, the only reason, apart from aesthetics, why I'm opposed to using them is that they get instantly damaged, especially the wooden spikes.

There is nothing more boring than constant maintenance of things.

I personally play on survivalist, the only changes I make are marking air drops (we literally have a gps for a map which tells coordinates, I'm sure a government plane puts trackers in them) increasing difficulty to survivalist, and 12 enemies on bloodmoon. For video settings, brightness at 70-80% (torches and flashlights, do literally nothing, even if you hear a zombie you just run anyway). Finally, grass distance setting to lowest. (Chickens, animals, and zombies don't move grass when they walk. It's impossible to see creatures that are 50% smaller than grass, plus they halved the birds nests, i need to be able to see my meats and eggs).

 

Here's some tips for you, i felt the same way about the game but it's rather enjoyable.

 

1. Get a lvl 1 stone sledgehammer, use the normal attack to knock the enemy down after a couple hits, then power attack when they're on the ground. If that doesn't kill, just keep spamming normal attack, shouldn't take more than 1.

 

2. Go to your local trader, i prefer jen since she offers quests relatively close and is in the most central area of the map. Then when you arrive, check her stock and see what's reasonable to buy. Preferably a weapon, but if she has blade traps, those are top priority for bloodmoon.

 

3. Grab a quest from the trader, i usually don't do digging since there isn't a lot until later, take a fetch or clear. Fetches are good since you can avoid conflict, clears force you to kill (good for xp) and encourage you to loot a POI to the fullest.

 

4. Figure out what weapon you want to perk into (it is an mmo simulator after all, no more learning by doing or upgrading tools by re-crafting them). Then work on either buying that weapon from the trader, or crafting it yourself. Everything is seriously viable except stun batons and knives, just avoid those as they require precision mastery and are only good in certain scenarios.

 

5. I build a house on stilts. Build a pillar 4 high, place 5 frames out, then attach to the ground. I do that till i have a 9x9 square foundation on stilts. Then i build a bridge, also 5 blocks out (from where your putting the front door. Repeat that twice and build a ramp. The reason for this, is it FORCES zombies to funnel up the ramps on the bridge, to your door. Perfect for blade traps, and not having to worry about all angles.

 

6. Doors, they are 2 blocks big. So what you do is build 1x3 ceiling above the door and create frames. Now, the trick is place a 1/2 wood frame (using the "on face" option) and place it on both sides of the 1x3 ceiling. Then for the bottom part, there are inverted corner blocks. Same size of the frames however, the center is almost hollow which makes it perfect for hitting crawlers/spiders from inside without harm. Plus nothing can get in the narrow gap, wood slits are a thing of the past.

 

7. This is a mechanic simulator, do not forget that, i can understand if you dislike the game and don't like the somewhat forced gameplay, but no one else has really posted what they do, so your seeing a biased opinion and playthrough of a try hard if you will.

 

Moving forward

 

8. food is really a secondary cocern, do NOT eat until your missing health since food heals you. There is no reason to eat that bacon and eggs when your hunger is half, but your full on health. Only eat if your hunger is at 7 or below, or if your health is THAT bad and you don't have painkillers.

 

9: don't keep your forges running, i see you have issues with the heat map. I can easily make it to day 14 on survivalist without seeing a single screamer (and this is with 0 deaths) i only let the forges run 5 minutes at a time per day, and the only time i let that run is when I'm far away questing.

 

Finally, tip 10: TAKE YOUR ARMOR OFF. Seriously, you run FASTER than sprinting zombies. If you are making a long walk from point A to B, TAKE IT OFF. Your not only slowing yourself down for no reason, but if you are out at night and a sprinting zombie comes at you, you will NOT be able to run away without the necessary perks while wearing armor. Plus it saves so much time running. If you can avoid getting hit without armor as is, only use it in POIs.

 

I truly wish you the best of luck, I'd be more than happy to send you screenshots of some of my setups if you would like. I can understand if this alpha isn't for you, that's perfectly fine. Mods can make it better, and that's okay. That's exactly what the purpose of mods are. Modded Minecraft is insanely fun compared to vanilla, same with skyrim. Make the game your @%$#. The zombies are just a mindless entity and food is just an imaginary bar to keep you worried.

 

[MaxTunnerX]

Thanks for the tips mate, some of the points are rather interesting (I always have clothes/armor on to save inventory space and it seems it has been killing me). However I'm trying to play the game my way and I find it sad it kinda worked before and doesn't anymore. Adding an option or two wouldn't hurt I think. In any case, yeah mods are here to modify the game, but I prefer playing games vanilla (except for command line things when game bugs out or when I want to make my life even easier). I've always personally enjoyed Minecraft without mods just as well as Skyrim. Never really understood why people kept hating Skyrim vanilla, but that's a story for another time. As for MC, I really like it vanilla, the only thing I hate about it is that if you have a big manor/castle, enemies spawn right inside your home, unless you use some stupid blocks/materials you don't want to have there. Otherwise not a problem until now. When I just want to chill, I can chill. When I want to fight, I go out and fight. That's what I'd like to see in 7D2D as well, without having a 4-digit IQ or without reading/seeing tons of guides and videos.

Edited July 2, 2021 by MaxTunnerX (see edit history)

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

I play at Nomad difficulty. Also keep in mind that basically every time I play it's a different alpha so it's hard to compare. POIs are out of the question, no idea how you can survive there for longer than 5 mins.

 

Nothing is easier than using a poi for crafting base (and for horde base for the first 3 weeks as well). Use the second floor, cut off any stairs and put a wood ladder somewhere three blocks above the ground. You can jump up, the zombies can not. Better make two access ways, for backup. There are other ways of secure entry, this is just the cheapest one.

 

Quote

 

Otherwise I just make a small base the first couple of days. Usual stuff, one forge, torches to keep light and stuff. What kept happening to me in last several alphas was that after a couple days zombies really amassed around my (underground) base. Blood moon was even worse cause of laser predator sight. In any case, every time they walked through they just destroyed everything above ground (or almost) and only left me with my underground part.

 

Well, underground bases aren't easy anymore. Because you need to dig a lot for effective underground bases those are reserved for mid- and end-game. And you need detailed knowledge about how zombies work. Just because underground was the way to chill for some alphas doesn't mean that was how TFP wanted it.

 

Quote

 

I tried the newest alpha a few days ago and already I got zombies on me couple minutes in and I couldn't even build the base without being harassed. I tried making an underground base but zombies started digging so I just gave up. As for the spikes, last time I used them (year or two ago), they went blunt after 2 or 3 zombies and if I put them in a moat zombies would take minor damage and then start attacking the dirt, digging into my base so no effect at all.

 

I think the main problem here isn't the spikes but that underground bases do not work like they did in very old alphas. If you want a place to chill you need to use pois. Least work for maximum protection

 

Quote

 

I could let all of the problems I have with the game's enemies slide if only they weren't able to dig. I would just build a bunker like always and let them do whatever they want on the surface. But now I can't do even that. Luckily my friend and savior war3zuk still updates the indestructible blocks mod so I'm using that now.

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Darklegend222]

8 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Thanks for the tips mate, some of the points are rather interesting (I always have clothes/armor on to save inventory space and it seems it has been killing me). However I'm trying to play the game my way and I find it sad it kinda worked before and doesn't anymore. Adding an option or two wouldn't hurt I think. In any case, yeah mods are here to modify the game, but I prefer playing games vanilla (except for command line things when game bugs out or when I want to make my life even easier). I've always personally enjoyed Minecraft without mods just as well as Skyrim. Never really understood why people kept hating Skyrim vanilla, but that's a story for another time. As for MC, I really like it vanilla, the only thing I hate about it is that if you have a big manor/castle, enemies spawn right inside your home, unless you use some stupid blocks/materials you don't want to have there. Otherwise not a problem until now. When I just want to chill, I can chill. When I want to fight, I go out and fight. That's what I'd like to see in 7D2D as well, without having a 4-digit IQ or without reading/seeing tons of guides and videos.

A lot of that is underground building. If your building a 9x9 underground bunker but not trapping the top with blades/spikes then what are you doing? Underground is a mid-late game thing. You can EASILY hole up on the top floor of a POI and rest there during the nights as needed.

 

But did you forget about the running tips? You can easily do your digging at night provided that you build a little square structure of wood before heading underground. Preferably by hatch/ladder going straight down, then having a hatch/ladder to roof in your structure as a way out if they attack. In which case you can dig, exit hole and building, then kite zombie away if needed. Since you don't want zombies coming down your 1x1 hole in which is your only way out.

 

Strategize, strategize, strategize. It's 7 days to die, it's meant to be a little rough no matter the difficulty. It is not a sit-back and chill game. If you really wish it to be that way, lower the difficulty from nomad, decrease their block damage and regular damage, and set your loot abundance higher.

 

I agree with your dog running issue, but you can also outrun them too, and it's WAY easier at night. I have outran so many wolves and zombie dogs. WATCH that stamina bar and don't let it go below 60-80% at night, you need the ability to run away!

 

Here's the problem with what you wish and indestructible blocks, it can cheat the horde night. It's a tower defense game, build a tower or path, and DEFEND it. Later on you can get blade traps, fence traps, and turrets to do that job for you. Indestructible blocks to completely break the AI and allow for an impassible horde night is exactly why they removed that.

 

If underground is really that broken for you, then your either 1. Going to need to adapt, or 2. Keep using mods to change the game away from what's intended. 

 

I don't mean to be rude, but you have options available to help ease the things you lost. "I'm trying to play the game my way" well, other people are too. And your mods seem to do what you want, so what exactly is the problem? Just that it isn't in vanilla?

 

I'm sure i could dig through some xmls and decrease dog speed. Just remember that it's 7 days to DIE. It's an unforgiving world, and having a high heatmap from all those forges, is remaining true to that.

 

Hell, Madmole has a forge base, horde base, and a crafting/farming base combined. That way no heat maps collide. I myself, only use 2 bases late game, but start with a horde/home base combined for the first few bloodmoons.. if my GS isn't too high.

 

 

[MaxTunnerX]

11 hours ago, meganoth said:

Nothing is easier than using a poi for crafting base (and for horde base for the first 3 weeks as well). Use the second floor, cut off any stairs and put a wood ladder somewhere three blocks above the ground. You can jump up, the zombies can not. Better make two access ways, for backup. There are other ways of secure entry, this is just the cheapest one.

Where exactly do I put the ladders? Also can zombies respawn in my POI when I go out and come back again? BTW I found out I'm on adventurer difficulty, I always go for the default one and it used to be Nomad I think.

Edited July 3, 2021 by MaxTunnerX (see edit history)

[Darklegend222]

1 hour ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Where exactly do I put the ladders? Also can zombies respawn in my POI when I go out and come back again? BTW I found out I'm on adventurer difficulty, I always go for the default one and it used to be Nomad I think.

Zombies no longer spawn, if you place your bedroll down. Basically, build your surface protection structure, then just shove a ladder in the corner to the roof for escaping, then just make the ladder go down as far as you wish for the underground base. And proceed to expand, though i would recommend not making it wider than your surface base unless there are spikes or traps above.

 

The default difficulty did get lowered, as they gated stuff behind gamestage and felt that it was imbalanced for starting/regular players who just want to play.

 

Edit: since your still playing some older alphas, i cannot recommend checking the patch notes of every version thoroughly!

Edited July 3, 2021 by Darklegend222 (see edit history)

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Where exactly do I put the ladders?

 

A picture says more than a 1000 words:

 

 

First two pictures are from our horde base (late game, 3 players co-op) in one of the cemetries. The first pictures shows a neat trick if you look closely. If you put plates on the wall below the ladder you have it easier to jump up, without them the jump can fail if you are standing flat against the wall. Which can be dicy if at that moment zombies are directly behind you.

 

Last picture is from our crafting base. Theoretically if you put a ladder on a wall zombies could stack upon each other and one might then enter the base but this happened not even once because the zombies will distribute. In the crafting base entry not even that is possible as there is no wall, but you might need a few jumps before you get up. But with a little training you will miss maybe 1 jump in 20.

 

I always make sure that the the ground left and right of the ladder is equally flat than the space directly before it so zombies can't go sideways to access the ladder. And it is advantageous that the floor block below the ladder is not an earth block as those can be a slightly lower than say cobblestone blocks and make jumping more difficult.

 

 

Quote

 

 

Also can zombies respawn in my POI when I go out and come back again? BTW I found out I'm on adventurer difficulty, I always go for the default one and it used to be Nomad I think.

 

If you don't use big buildings like hotels or factories and place a bedroll then it is not possible that zombies spawn in there. I don't know the range of the bedroll at the moment but I think it is ample enough to secure a typical residential area POI if you place it somewhere in the middle of the building. If you need more space you can use a landclaim block to add another "exclusion field"

 

PS: Just noticed it already is day 120 in that game. It was a game where I played with two first-timers and we really played on for a long time even after we had everything. One could argue this was a game to chill 😉

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

A picture says more than a 1000 words:

 

 

First two pictures are from our horde base (late game, 3 players co-op) in one of the cemetries. The first pictures shows a neat trick if you look closely. If you put plates on the wall below the ladder you have it easier to jump up, without them the jump can fail if you are standing flat against the wall. Which can be dicy if at that moment zombies are directly behind you.

 

Last picture is from our crafting base. Theoretically if you put a ladder on a wall zombies could stack upon each other and one might then enter the base but this happened not even once because the zombies will distribute. In the crafting base entry not even that is possible as there is no wall, but you might need a few jumps before you get up. But with a little training you will miss maybe 1 jump in 20.

 

I always make sure that the the ground left and right of the ladder is equally flat than the space directly before it so zombies can't go sideways to access the ladder. And it is advantageous that the floor block below the ladder is not an earth block as those can be a slightly lower than say cobblestone blocks and make jumping more difficult.

 

 

 

If you don't use big buildings like hotels or factories and place a bedroll then it is not possible that zombies spawn in there. I don't know the range of the bedroll at the moment but I think it is ample enough to secure a typical residential area POI if you place it somewhere in the middle of the building. If you need more space you can use a landclaim block to add another "exclusion field"

 

PS: Just noticed it already is day 120 in that game. It was a game where I played with two first-timers and we really played on for a long time even after we had everything. One could argue this was a game to chill 😉

 

well interesting if  bedroll range is xy or xyz if  xy that mean hotel could be safe 

[Vinceras]

According to the wiki, a bedroll blocks a 31x31 meter rectangular area from zombie respawns.  For reference, the default setting for land claim blocks are 41x41. 

 

Seriously though, most of this game is about knowing or figuring out zombie pathing and taking advantage of the AI. 

 

Zombies will zig zag all over if you are not lined up directly north/south/east/west of them.  Once you are, they will path directly to you with very limited sway or zig zagging.  Makes for a much easier time dealing with them.  If you have a group coming at you, drop back a bit and make sure you are directly north, south, east, or west of them.  They will queue up nicely to die.

 

Most of what keeps you safe in this game right now is being above the zombies.  Seriously, JaWoodle on youtube is a great resource for base building videos.  If you prefer melee, look up his "Hatch Hallway" base.  If you prefer ranged, look up his "Killing Corridor" base.  You seem like you may have no interest in doing any research...but, honestly, you've probably spent more time in this thread than if you watched a base building video.

[MaxTunnerX]

Thanks for the ladder explanation @meganoth, it seems to be the easiest thing I can do until the game gets updated with the things I'd like.

@Vinceras I want to buld my own bases, not copy someone else's work.

[MaxTunnerX]

So, just to update you guys - I've found a mod that prevents zombies from ever breaking anything unless they dig, and I'm furious. The devs hardcoded the game so that you can never set damage of the zombies done to the blocks to 0 or prevent them from digging. Why on Earth did they do this? I don't like the "if you don't like the game this way, get mods" attitude, but at least it's something you can work with. But now it seems you can't even mod the game how you want it. Terrible.

But at least now I have somewhat acceptable experience until the game gets improved.

Edited July 5, 2021 by MaxTunnerX (see edit history)