Viktoriusiii
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Posts posted by Viktoriusiii
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TFPs have stated like... back in A8 (at least that was when I first heard it) that children are off limits.
They have had a short internal discussion and all of them were against the idea of putting in childzombies.
Why? See comments above. Violence against children isn't something everyone is comfortable with. Even as zombies.
In a cartoony game like minecraft that works, ebcause they are sooo comicy.
But this is not a blocky fun fun game.1 -
That was regarding the atuo wake ups.
True it was also about stealth, but I did nearly a week of testing for this. I tried to make it work. And it doesn't.
Multiple POIs, different approaches, different weapons and so on. Every logical ingame step (so not like having no armor) I took to enhance my sneaking, I took.
That is a seperate issue, even though it is connected. Wake-up rooms need some balancing, but that is not the topic here.
The point of the thread was only amplified by it.
Try it. Play a sneakbuild and tell me how it goes. Outside of POIs it feels great. As soon as you step inside POIs, it is basicially useless!0 -
Look if it is like... once per POI... fine.
But if you only have stealth as your option and you need to fight irradiated zombies, it just doesn'T feel fair to have to fight them every room when I could just walz in there with a machinegun and just mow them down and be done with it in an instant.
I said it a trillion times:
Everything needs a drawback and a benefit (strength/weakness).
The strength of strength is a great choice between sledgehammer and shotty (single target vs multitarget) while being able to farm and cook
Its weakness is the close range, so you are always in danger of being hit. But you do have heavy armor to protect you (but makes you slower and easier to swarm)
Perception has a sniper and a spear to deal with most things in the world and explosives for hordenight.
the weakness is a general mass killer like a shotgun or machinegun.
Fortitude has everything. It is without a doubt the strongest perk by being able to have great single and multitarget damage with automatic weapons as well as pain resistance and healing. But it does lack other utilities.
Intelligence has turrets, which are currently underpowered because the good ones (scrap turrets) don't drop at all and you can only learn them via schematic.
If they fix this, then intelligence is a set-upper.
Set up your turrets and lure the Z's into them and you will probably have no trouble.
But it is reliant upon the turrets and they are not great at dealing with hordes (but that is where traps come in)
Agility has stealth and quickness. Their strength is that they can deal with non-hordes pretty well and efficiently and can run away if overwhelmed.
As well as being excellent POI clearers. But they don't have anything else.
And being overwhelmed in POIs often leads to chaos and if you get stunned once, it is basicially game over.
So either they give Agility a way to clear massive amounts of zombies (against that! it is the only Attribute other than INT that feels different)
OR they try and give us back stealth.
If we chose stealth, we want to be able to DO stealth.
Imagine if in skyrim you could only ever stealthkill one person and had to fight the others. How unsatisfying would that be?
Honestly. I get where you and TFPs are coming from.
But a game that offers a stealthy approach, only to take it away and force you to fight anyways is so... idiotic.
Why would I need the stealthskills if I have to fight anyways? There are so many other, better options.0 -
But... difficulty does not increase awareness?
It only increases HP and dmg of the zombies (maybe spawnrate dunno)
also... WTF kinda attitude is that?
"you want it hard? Then you will not be able to use 25% of the game!"
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The problem I see is:
Either it is easily curable (once you have honeys lying around it isn't a threat anymore)
or it is completely wrecking your character to the point where eating glass seems like a good alternative.
I think they need to make the effects far less severe but increase the speed at which you gain it, increase effectiveness of honey/herbal/antibiotics (25/50/100), make it permanent even on death.
So you might need to play 3-4 days with 100% infection but then you have 4 honeys and can cure it, instead of the constant hope to find another honey.0 -
*PREFIX*
Just to make it clear:
Sneaking still works as great as it ever did outside. I can practicially stand next to a zombie without being noticed. This is only about POI sneaking.
Well now. After the last discussion/poll over here:
I am back with a vengeance.
What is this about?
This is a status report from a player. I do not have footage of pictures, nor have I gone in any xml.
But I will describe everything as best as I can.
Stealth is too weak. Full stop.
I have tried to make it work. I bought every related skill. I had most of the nightstalker books.
I had only light armor with simple mufflers and no military sneaking shoes.
Add to that my experience in this game as well as others including stealthgames and me playing on the hardest difficulties in any game... (not bragging. Just stating the fact that when I can't make it work, the average player can't by a countrymile)
I can still clear it. But that is because I am a good player (on easier difficulties zombies are less dangerous, I am talking about insane), not because stealth is good. I might as well had no perks in sneaking whatsoever.I was not able to clear it simply by sneaking through.
Report:
It does not work. I can not sneak in a poi without them waking up. Not even at night.
My visibility when standing still (or moving inch by inch) is 0.
When slowly sneaking it is between 12 inside and 30 outside (wtf???)
Every 3rd to 4th room wakes up. (not counting rooms/situations where i was not able to sneak up on them)
Often times before I am even close to them (makes sense since sleeper volumes only check on entry).
Also it seems like doing missions inside of POIs (feral sense off) aggros zombies outside. They seem to swarm the location and do not give up (even though the perk says they should give up after 15 seconds). This means I am in constant combat music. Annoying.
What is going wrong:
SO many things.
-sleeper volumes should check regularly (with a lower probability), instead of only on entry
-even silent weapons make enough noise a lot of the time to wake zombies up around them (why even use a bow/crossbow, if I might as well use a shotgun?)
-every zombie is either behind a corner, inside a cupboard, in a wall, falling from the fake roof or otherwise obstructed.
this means that even with perfect sneaking, you need to go inside the sleeper volume to kill the Z's.
The fact that breaking the cupboards or walls makes such a loud noise that other zombies (not only the ones close) wake up is just the cherry on top (only way to avoid this is
by using a crossbow, but that also wakes up some zombies, depending on how far you can be away)
-I was not able to check a POI multiple times, so I can not say anything about "auto-aggro", but the check to see if they wake up is FAR too high. Since even insane sneaking skills
can't get you in the single digits (without either no armor or military sneaking boots and advanced mufflers) as far as I can tell.-The red dots are only shown when entering the sleeper volume, meaning we can not even prepare for anything that might be coming (even though the Z's are already spawned in)
And these are only the major issues. Smaller ones like random spikes in visibility, nearly no way to "destroy" lightsources without making a sound and so on are not listed here.
Conclusion:
TFPs hate stealth. There is no way around it.
Every update something new is implemented to make it less viable. Then players find a way to combat it, then they implement something else and fix the previous countermeasures... to a point where now every poi is made with anti-stealth in mind and 3-4 features working together to make stealth as unpleasant as possible (trashsound, wall/obstaclesleepers,sleepervolumes, loud 'silent' silent weapons...)
Let us sneak in POIs!!! If we go stealth, our advantage is safe looting and lower usage of ammunition.
On hordenight we are much weaker then say a foritude build with an M60; a strength build with an autoshotgut and intelligence with mass stun-steel defenses and traps.
I am honestly not a bad player. And if I have trouble with this, the average player doesn't even need to try.Solutions:
I will try and rank these solutions based on how easy they are to implement (based on my limited knowledge of the gamecode and just rough estimates) AND how effective it would be to combat the current problems.
Can't delete a table lol.Solution: Difficulty: Effectiveness: removing sleeper volumes entirely 3/10 6/10 increasing the value to wake up in a volume: 1/10 4/10 making regular checks inside the volume instead of only at entry 4/10 4/10 redesign sleeper spots to make sense instead of trying to force drama 8/10 10/10 redesigning sleepers so they are automaticially awake (% based) and wandering once they spawn 10/10 6/10 actually making silent weapons silent again 1/10 4/10 developing a love for stealth and acknowledging that they do not need to force players to fight zombies ∞/10 10/10 3 -
Ha!
But Supercorn is now quite a lot more common and can even be a questreward.
So I would say this is pretty well balanced.
Neither awesome sauce nor learning elixir are a must have, so gating it behind a rare reward seems really balanced to me
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You have heard of pyramidhead, but out now, the premiumskin:
Boxhead!
For only 2,99€ even you can have this stunning new reimagining of one of the biggest terrors in the horror genre!0 -
7 hours ago, Roland said:
Can not is how we ferret out non-native ESL speakers. Your discovery is going to put you under the radar for sure!
However, much like LOTL 2, using "cannot" is just a stepping stone to using "can't". I suggest skipping "cannot" altogether.haha I've always used "can't" but I always assumed it was short for "can not"
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Point taken.
It FELT very much (and I thought it was explained like that as well) like basicially every room is a auto-wakeup room.
But if that is not the case, I withdraw my point. But yeah an official description WOULD help.
7 hours ago, Boidster said:Setting aside the inherent contradiction between "auto wakeup" and "after an RNG roll"...yes and? Isn't this how every game since ever has handled this mechanic? "Roll your sneak skill" says the DM. The enemy has a chance to detect you. Your stealth (or lack) affects how likely that chance is to succeed. You can make a valid argument that the current balance regarding the chance to detect you leans too strongly in the zombies' favor. And that argument might not require 40 lines of text.
There is a difference though. A game where the player can not impact the results with skills is inherantly different than one where he can.
A game where skill matters should not use RNG (or at least the absolute minimum possible amount), because otherwise the player starts feeling cheated.
Like me right now. Even though I have 3/5 sneaking, it still feels like every room wakes up once I enter it, meaning I have stopped playing a sneaky character, because there is no use anyways.
If the game descides when a zombie wakes up, then what I do doesn't matter (enough). This is a bad design.Yes 7d2d is not a pure stealth-game, but if you skill into stealth, it should be considered under the same rules:
Imagine if in splinter cell you sneak up to a guard and it suddenly, for no reason hears you. "Well you mjust have stepped on a pile of paper that wasn't visible, but who knows?"
Not only would it not be fair, it would actively hurt the stealthmechanics.
If I have the choice between two mechanics, but one of them punishes me for using it... why owuld I use it?
And all this still doesn't factor in the absolute HORROR of breaking the internal gamerules. But I have talked about that enough.
Staying consistent with behavior and rules is important or a game feels random.4 hours ago, meganoth said:The problem might not be the aggressive rooms at all but simply stealth being nerfed too far at the moment.
Thank you for testing.
But honestly, I have no problem stealthing outside. I can have 20 vision and still stand right next to a zombie outside.
I think it is just in POIs, which would point to these sleeper volumes as the problem...But thank you. The fact that a mod actually confirms the uselessness of stealth is very reassuring.
5 hours ago, Boidster said:Yes you can. I built a box with just one opening (sort of a tunnel; I was experimenting with how stealth value changed with how far the "open to air" block was). Mr. Sleeper is right behind the wall where the cursor is pointing. Note that my stealth only got down to 12 (3 levels in FtS). The volume boundary is in green; I've crossed over it to stand on the wood blocks - normally he wakes up at this point.
He didn't wake up so I destroyed most of the blocks and then just snuck right up to him in broad daylight.
AHAHAHA xD great mechanic! (sorry!
Thank you for testing! But this is just silly!)
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On 12/14/2021 at 3:28 PM, Kyonshi said:
I played Darkness Falls, who still has this feature, and although i did enjoy it, used it legit and without spamcrafting, i can see why it wasnt something viable from the Pimps standpoint and this is where we have to look. Spamcrafting is one of the reason and no matter what people will say, the devs didnt want to see this. And even if 99 players out of 100 use the mechanic properly, the Pimps wouldnt want to see 1 person abusing it and its still the most legitimate reason.
NOBODY liked spamcrafting. That was never the argument.
Just because A15 allowed it, doesn'T mean that it is an essential part of LBD.
A16 already removed spamcrafting if you remember, by implementing a mixed system.
And it was perfect. Crafting should not be levelable by spamming (I proposed I think 3-4 different solutions to this problem, all are very easy to do)
And exploits like the cactus needed to be fixed.
Rant incoming. Please ignore.Once exploits and bugs and the like would have been fixed, it WOULD be a better mechanic.
If we remove crafting from skyrim (so alchemy, smithing and artifacts), how do you justify saying that the leveling mechanics of fallout were more fun than the ones in Skyrim?
Skyrim did exactly what I asked TFPs to do:
they removed exploits(except for crafting) and boring mechanics that were in oblivion and made the system work.
It is such a unique and rewarding system and I am tired of people that do not understand it saying that spamcrafting was the reason it was bad, when it was never the design but an exploit0 -
efficient and effective are both subjective terms.
It could be more effective to save the bullets for hordenight, or to clear the poi quicker to gain money to buy more bullets.
I am not quite sure why you are making this big of a fuss about effective/efficient.
If you die because you had to fight zombies because you went in guns blazing and made a mistake, it is less effective at clearing pois than a stealthmode (if it still worked like it used to)
But honestly, this is splitting hairs. IF by chance I have learned the wrong definitions or misinterpreted, feel free to correct me in a non judgmental way.
While I do consider my english to be very much sufficient, it is still not my mothertongue, so there can still be thing I don't know.
(for example I just recently learned that cannot is a word and is actually used far more often than can not)1 -
14 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:
Lucky Looter is debatable and Pack Mule is absolutely not needed, ever.
You say that.
But I personally like not being a snail.
You do not "need" any perk in the game.
You can play a perkless run if you want to.
(which is actually kind of a neat idea for a challenge run)
These perks are quality of life changes.
And I like not being slowed by 50% for half the poi and on my way back to the trader/home.0 -
17 minutes ago, Boidster said:
There are no POIs where all sleeper volumes are Passive. There are 157 (32.8%) of POIs where ALL volumes are "Active", i.e. NONE are "Attack". I thought your original complaint was about un-stealthable auto-attack sleepers.
Yeah but even "active" volumes wake up by the same principle (so they wake up when oyu enter that room). They just don't auto-aggro on you.
Which often times means the same seing as the layout of basicially every poi is zombies behind walls.
So if you can see them wake up, they already have aggro on you.
Again I generally think the idea is... okay. I don't hate it per se.
Just the current implementation.
I play on insane. And I have ZERO reason to try and sneak a poi.
Going in guns blazing is FAR faster, way safer and way more fun.
I am going to describe my experience with T4 POI hotel with 2 points in sneaking:
*sneak*
-zombies wake up, fight them
*sneak*
*get a nice headshot with a silent crossbow*
-every other zombie in the chunk wakes up, fight them
*repeat a few times*
In that whole T4 poi I only had ONE room (funny enough the loot room) where I was able to sleathkill most Z's.
Why am I even trying to use sleathy weapons? Why not simply use a sniper? Faster rate of fire, stronger and more accurate.
Since Z's mostly wake up anyways after one shot, I might as well.
My point/recap:
Most POIs (2/3rds which in politics is a large majority) have auto aggro rooms which auto wakeup after an rng roll (that is modified by stealthperks yay)
Stealth has become harder with more stuff on the floor
Light can now cause them to see you instantly
silent weapons have a chance (and not a low one, based on my experience) of alerting every zombie in the room, meaning the entire point of silent weapons (less damage but stealthy) is mute.
Stealth right now is a joke. A bad gimmick that came about because TFPs want players to fight the zombies.
Generally a good thought but they, as so often, did it by punishing the player instead of rewarding them.
Even if all these probabilities are lowered by like 80-90% it is still not a good system, but at least then stealth can finally be enjoyed again.
Until then, my stealthbuild will no longer be played, because there is not a single reason for it.3 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:Why would you ever think stealth clearing a POI is more effective? Hint - it's not, never has been and never will be. The most effective way is charging in guns blazing. I say this as a player that rarely uses guns and I still know it's true. How do you not?
no that is the fastest, not necessarily the most efficient.
Efficiency has more values than time:
Time, ressources (like ammo or bandages) and risk are the three values that I think are playing a part in efficiency.
If you were sneaking before this auto-wakeup, you could have no costs (iron arrows or even kniving is basicially 0 cost) and since Z's would basicially never wake up, the risk was very low as well. Also you would notice traps better because oyu are slower.
But yes if it was purely about time, then going in guns blazing was always more efficient.5 minutes ago, Boidster said:My stealth value went up to 20 while moving in this situation.
so... they behaved just like every other zombie that is not in a poi? (basicially blind if the value is below 25)?
Yeah... shocker ^^ (but thx for confirming)
this is what I mean. The world sets certain rules. Like Z's being super blind. And these auto-triggers break that rule because even with a sneak rating of <10 they still often hear you. And there is no (in game)explanation for it.
That would be like shooting a penalty and 9/10 times you need to fill the meter 50%, but 1/10 times (which you never know which one) filling it up 50% causes the ball to go flying out of the stadium. WHY? "Because we don't want you to be a perfect penalty taker!"0 -
correct. The wrench is the only tool that does not halter stamina regen on a poweratk
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Every ressource gives the same amount. Power attack or not.
So feel free to power attack.
Although I feel it is more useful in 90% of cases to just hit it with the light attack because of the stamina punishment.0 -
I love it too. This is basicially the actual T3 weapon.
4 shots?
Who cares about measly 20 more damage?
Sure lategame it won't be enough to oneshot radiated cops... but for everything else, 4 shots are just sooo much nicer than a single shot.1 -
2 hours ago, Roland said:
Well Boidster was maxed in perks so his stealth score was a 1 which is the lowest possible. We need to see at what threshold the attack volume triggers. If it’s 2 then it is pretty much as you say— basically guaranteed. But if 6 or 8 then at least for indoor areas, covering windows and breaking lights might be enough. Sneaking onto a roof top with no cover in broad daylight probably should be pretty automatic.
I like the general idea of light affecting it.
The problem is the counterplay.
Since basicially every lightsource has >50hp we can't simply shoot them out (without waking the Z's).
If lightsources had two states (a functioning one with 1hp and a destroyed one with the normal HP) that would help A LOT and would actually make stealth a lot more challenging.
Covering the windows is a neat idea, but basicially impossible, since light levels are given out so easily.
W=window |xx| = block lightlevel
W ||14|| ||13|| ||12|| ||11|| ||10|| ....
We could never reach those windows. So that would need to be changed somehow. Either by making the block-light requirement like... 13 so you only need to cover adjacent windows/holes, or... in some other way.
Granted I'm no expert in lightlevels. So this I leave up to the experts.
But in general I like the general idea of the implementation, even if the current one is completely unenjoyable.8 hours ago, Boidster said:Categorically untrue. I even provided concrete numbers and POI examples. Hyperbole only undercuts your argument.
I mean it was a hyperbole... but actually based on what you said, I was actually right... or did I misinterpret something?
On 12/13/2021 at 11:45 PM, Boidster said:Examination of 479 POIs with Sleeper Volumes
POIs with All Volumes Active (flag="0") 157 (32.8%) POIs with All Volumes Passive (flag="1") 0 POIs with All Volumes Aggressive (flag="2") 75 (15.7%) POIs with Mix of Active & Aggressive 247 (51.6%)
There are 0 "passive" pois... so every POI has this mechanic now... right? Even if they don't always aggro.
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1 hour ago, madmole said:
They are OP. We'll nerf/gate them a bit more.
NO GATES my mole!!!
PLEASE Have we not learned anything?
Nerf them dead. But don't hide the starting weapon behind perks please
(except if you meant in the sense of ressources, then I'm kidna fine with it, but I think it would be good if they were on the same level as other pipe weapons in cost and in power)1 -
1. thank you for the update. That at least gives me hope.
Although I can say that my experience with 2/5 sneak perks were very one sided.
Thing is that many (or most) of these "triggers" are within viewing distance of the Z's. And they instantly see me as if I wasn't sneaking.
So I suppose it isn't implemented yet.5 minutes ago, Roland said:I don't want sleepers to always stay asleep and have that be the only dimension of stealth gameplay so even if fully perked there should still be a rare chance that a sleeper could awaken as I draw near even if I made no mistakes.
I don't like sleepers at all.
I think basicially all the now called sleepers should be set to wander. Makes the world feel more alive.
There should be sleepers and "fake sleepers", so that you can never be sure if they are dead or not and always have to check (maybe even causing a sound to alert other z's?).
But I generally don't mind walking sleepers. What I dislike is them being automatons that just wake up for seemingly no reason. It feels weird.
I know they only spawn once the player is in range, but that should change.
Once you enter a POI, every Z should be in place and be set to be either idle or wandering. (then you would need to buff stealth again)But thank you for reporting this. Means a lot.
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1 hour ago, hiemfire said:
Ya, stealth perks don't do @%$# when you aren't crouched. If you're climbing a ladder they will hear you. Better to find another way of getting up or down if you can. If you get lucky and find the Urban combat book that removes fall noise while crouched then just dropping down should be an option.
i know. I was describing where this trigger was approximately.
No it is "go down a ladder"
*nothing*
"go foreward a few steps (while sneaking)"
*suddenly all zombies have aggro*0 -
11 hours ago, Roland said:
Stealth has been changed for A20 and will require some adaptation. There are no longer any auto trigger zombie wakeup areas. When you enter a volume there is going to be a check vs your stealth for each zombie to see if it wakes up. If you fail the check one or more zombie will wake up. If those zombies are in a position to see you then they will attack but if they don't see you then you can still enjoy stealth gameplay that you spent your points on. A zombie that wakes up doesn't automatically negate your stealth. It all depends on how you react.
We do need feedback on the system but you should know that the system is not automatic guaranteed aggro as soon as you pass an invisible line like some areas were in A19. Maybe you could give us a seed and the location of the POI where it seemed the zombies aggroed automatically.
On 12/13/2021 at 8:04 PM, Viktoriusiii said:rural_church_01 (should have 2 triggers. Once when going down the ladder and one inside the main lootroom)
store_book_02 has one when you drop down from the ceiling into the main lootroom
utility_refinery_01 (right after you get into the first big room they start to fall from the skies)I am VERY certain that there still are auto-aggro rooms.
I actually never noticed them in A19. Either they were SUPER rare, or actually made sense (after trapfloors and stuff)
In A20 every POI has them. And they feel very much not like a chance, but like a certainty.
I have 2 points in stealth, a sneaklevel that is constantly under 20 and the same poi done 4 times... every time the same room triggered at the exact same point.
It feels VERY much arbitrary.0 -
http://www.jacksay.com/perks/#A19.6,60,4-1000000201,3-000002131,5-000030320,3-100000021,9-23340040
So yeah I could have unlocked it earlier. But most of these perks are pretty essential if you want to have a decent time.
Sure I COULD have rushed it. But other perks were more important for decent progress.0 -
4 minutes ago, meganoth said:
Just like in an RPG or a wargame. If you do everything right, you just maxed out your chances. And you win by always doing the stuff that gives you a better chance than the enemy. This is a design philosophy you seem to profoundly dislike, but it is nevertheless a valid design philosphy that many people like.
If you perk into stealth it effectively becomes one. You have basicially descided "I forgo the chance of dealing with active zombies (like on hordenight), but can therefor clear pois much more effectively.
4 minutes ago, meganoth said:Enemies hear you because you always do noise. Ever seen your noise meter go to zero? It doesn't. By avoiding noisy activities and having high stealth perks you are maximising the chance you are not noticed.
4 minutes ago, meganoth said:A real stealth game needs to give you much more control over this because if you are detected it is almost always game over (I'm sure the video talks about stuff like this). The rooms and enemies have usually fixed routines, everything is more like a puzzle you have to solve. Random puzzles generally don't work. 7D2D does not give you carefully crafted puzzles for stealth players, it can't.
Yes, only that your stealthmeter never is perfect. And you are citing rules made for stealth games while saying 7D2D isn't one just a few sentences before.
No. They hear you because someone played dice when I stepped into that room.
those two things are not the same. I can stand right next to a zombie at night (with visibility < 20), but if I make that one step with <5 visibility, the whole room wakes up.This is not fair. And not in the "this needs to be balanced" kind of fair, but in the "fair for the player" kind of fair.
There is no indicator that this can happen. There is no counterplay (except running away, which is often prevented by zombies in walls and so on).4 minutes ago, meganoth said:Read the perk description, it gives a hint: "Enemies will search for you for up to x seconds.". And x goes down with every additional perk point.
AGI has light armor for a reason, combined with a few items to make you run faster you can run out of their range and restealth. It isn't exactly the easiest thing in the game you can do, but it actually is a fun thing to do in a high adrenaline way. Naturally it should not happen in every room that you have to run for your live (as any such event slows you down). Therefore only some rooms can be agressive rooms (or areas) and the dice roll that determines whether zombies wake up has to be well balanced so a stealth player feels his perk points well invested.
Okay if TFPs want me to play that way, fine. Then they do not know what makes stealth so fun.
Yes it can be very fun luring awake zombies to a position and hiding, killing them from sneak.
And I think it is a great mechanic. But not because they forced it down my throat, but because I made a mistake and now need to find a creative solution to the self-made problem.4 minutes ago, meganoth said:RNG is not cheating, even the universe does it, much to the chagrin of Albert Einstein 😉
There is different sorts of RNG.
And most games cheat by displaying a much lower chance, so that the player does not feel cheated. (the psyche is a very dasterdly thing after all).
This isn't a competative wargame. We play this game to have fun, not to have things happen to us that is beyond our control.
A CERTAIN AMOUNT of random chance is great. But the point at which it becomes frustrating is hard to see for devs. And once crossed is a big detriment to the game.
QuoteThe volumes marked "Attack" do seem to have clear behavior - as soon as you cross the boundary, all of the sleepers wake up and attack. Which is the root of OP's complaint I think.
Correct. Thank you @Boidster.
If they only wake up if I am above a certain sneak value... that is still kind of bad (it should follow the rules, like every other zombie, namely every Z' has their own detection based on range), but at least that is somewhat understandable.
If the chance to wake up is random, or even 100% (as it seems certain rooms are), that is not a good design.
I have already given quite a few solutions and I think they still hold up.
IF THEY HAVE TO KEEP THIS SYSTEM then they need to change it drasticially. Even if I think it should be scrapped entirely.1
Sneaking and its problems (and how to fix it)
in General Discussion
Posted
1. thank you for staying factural and thank you for explaining my point.
2. I am not hired to report bugs/balance issues. I am a consumer who feels unsatisfied.
I can stay completely factual, but honestly, when I come to the forums, I need to vent my frustrations.
If they want only factual feedback, with rigerous testing, I can certainly do that. But then the game is no longer a hobby for me, but work.
I am not saying it is the most productive, but this way I can vent, I still have explained the problem and they have an account of what it does to their players.
My philosophy was/is always "it isn't HOW you say it, it is WHAT you say that is important".
Because humans can't stay calm and collected at all times about all topics. And 7D2D is a heartproject to me. Has been since very early on.
That is WHY I get so upset when they f*** up so hard.
(if you can believe it, I wasn't always the hater I am nowadays. Pre A16 I still had stuff to critizise, but it was mostly minor stuff. But they lost basicially all my trust with Levelgates in A16 onwards and the absolute disaster that was A17. My breaking point was when madmole said "he will die on that hill". I get what he meant by it, but it is symbolic for what I think of TFPs nowadays. Unbudging towards feedback. They make their game if we like it or not.)
"hate"specific rant:
Do I think they hate stealth? Meh... I think they dislike the concept, because it gives the player the choice to avoid their preciously crafted POIs.
I do not think they hate stealth in concept. Just the thought of being able to skip certain parts of the game.
And history is VERY much on my side here.
TFPs have shown MULTIPLE times that they will try and force a certain playstyle.
I am not talking about exploits like the hordebases/driving away. That is a crucial part of the game that should not be easily skipped (or done so in the options for those that want it).
I am talking about forcing the player to loot. Be it how crafting was more and more reduced (remember gunmolds?
I am talking about passive defenses. First logspikes, then advanced traps losing durability FAST.
If they do not like a certain playstyle, they will either nerf it or just outright remove it.
YES it is their game. But I still think that my point about them hating "stealth" (or what it does to their pois) is accurate and showing.
I think I even read that somewhere... that they were working on making stealth "riskier". Which is alright in general, but I think they already made it risky enough with all these wallzombies.
MAYBE future updates prove me wrong. Maybe they just overshot their target by a few miles and will adjust it lateron to a level where stealth is actually playable again.
I do not know. But all the evidence in my mind points towards them not liking stealth.