Viktoriusiii
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Posts posted by Viktoriusiii
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47 minutes ago, meganoth said:
What is stopping you from building simple steel blocks with concentric rings of (submerged, so they are level with the ground) traps in all directions? Lots more work but the zombies will not have any distinct way they prefer.
difficulty.
I don't play on the normal difficulty, but this should somewhat be true on the "main"difficulty:
I can't get concrete before D7. No chance. And I can't get Steel before D14... if I don't rush INT I don't even get it before D28 if I'm not lucky.
Why should I (same with other exploits) build up a massive base with all surround defenses that cost me 1000s of ammo and will be breached after an hour anyways because Z's block strength is insane and Demolishers blow it up anyways, if I can simply funnel them to one point and just blast them with machine-guns, occasionally repairing the door?
It is pretty boring... but at least now I can focus on what TFPs love so much: looting/questing
rambling again:Spoiler
Building a spikepitd wasn't fun in <A16 and even less pre auger. BUT we did it because it was the only reliable way (without exploits) to defend your base, because you can't repair 20 blocks at once.
I mean the base discussion we agree on:
If there is a ridiculously easy way to do something and a harder, fun way, the devs should try to fix it. (your comment was in regards to underground bases)And funneling is just ridiculously more effective and requires only like 2 in game ours of setup. (7x5x3 cobblestone bunker with metal bars and a metal door and you can just shoot and throw cocktails and grenades as much as you want)
Building a base around my crafting base (that needs to look nice so is pretty big) is super hard and will get breached in seconds. Traps will be super inefficient and and and.
Perimeter defenses are dead. Full stop. At least in a survival sense.
Maybe you could make it better by increasing max zombies, decreasing their damage by a lot and then have fun with friends...
But as a serious attempt... it would need to be a challenge like a nuzlocke or "dead is dead".Why shouldn't I drive away on my motorcycle on horde night? Because of the birds! (<--- this was their fix to the problem)
Why shouldn't I build a super easy funneling system that makes the best use out of traps and ammo?
I should. Because it is a TD game. But THAT bites itself with the horror genre.
Predictable is not horror. Never was, never will be. But I have talked about TFPs wanting to fit every genre en masse before and nobody understood my point back then so I'm not going to start another discussion xD And not under this thread, because that is not what OP wants to talk about. #sorry0 -
2 hours ago, Darklegend222 said:
If funneling is cheese, then don't bother playing a zombie game. Don't even build walls, it's stuff for them to path around. In fact, remove everything between you and them. What's your first instinct in the apoclypse? To barricade entrances and make sure enemies can only enter from one place as you still need to get out.
Back in the days, we had big open bases.
Nobody really built a horde base. Because it wasn't just one small corridor.
You needed a perimeter defense.
Sure they were too dumb to know what a support pillar was, so you could simply let them run in circles below you, but that was an exploit and could have been fixed.
Nowadays you basically NEED a horde base, because your real base is too big, doesn't#t have a small corridor and if a demolisher shows up, you might lose all your stuff.
We actually built spikepits and gun towers in all directions because they would just straight up run towards you, no matter the cost.
Exactly like a horde SHOULD act.
Now they are all magically attracted to the door.
This is great for complex mazes like underground bunkers, because they will find their way downstairs, but awful for above ground defenses.
SpoilerThe more I talk about it... the more I miss A16... might install that when I come home.
I doubt I will have fun, because the rest (visual and feature stuff) was improved A LOT since then... but I think LBD... real horde nights... sneaking :'D
The more they improve, the more they move away from my ideal zombie game I guess... 😕Well at least there are awesome A16 mods still out there... hope I'll get them to work ^^
Or it is a bias of "everything was better when I was younger" ^^ we'll see
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Cheese (for me):
knowing exactly what the Z's will do and building your horde accordingly, maxing out the effectiveness.
So yes funneling is cheese, because there are no Z's that go against the grain.
I can optimize my defenses to a point where those zombies might as well Bloons, because I know exactly what path they will take.
Yes it is a tower defense game (supposedly), but it feels gamey. And what you DON'T want in a horror survival game, is for it to feel gamey.
Imagine dark souls introducing a slot machine at campfires.It feels out of place. Just because they add "casino-sim" in the tags doesn't mean it feels right. Even if that was the plan from the start.
YES this is hyperbole. Obviously it is not that big of a genre breaker.
But those stupid dangerous zombies just suddenly become pathfinding masters that always follow a set path (in 99% towards a door)So basically every base that uses this knowledge is cheese for me.
And yes I cheese them too. Because they are way too strong to not cheese. Also it is not possible to do a 360° defense anymore, so I have to cheese it.
Basicially: It won't kill me, but I'm not a friend of these horde A.I. zombies and even if <A16 A.I. had issues (running in circles and stuff) but at least I never knew what these mindless hordes would do next. They would be stupid, but still dangerous (if you didn't exploit certain bugs in the A.I., which is different from cheesing the intended A.I.)
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if there were a way to chose between old (dumb horde) and new (intelligent tower defense) A.I. that would be the dream.
Because I absolutely loved the horde A.I.
It got better over time, but kill corridors will now always be a thing. I will no longer be scared because I know how the Z's will react to any obstacle.
They are "intelligent" but predictable.
fataal said he worked on zombie dumbness, and sure there are no conga lines anymore, but on horde night they all find the entrance 100% of the time and avoid spikes and other traps like the plague (yes because they are coded like a block, but they shouldn't be. They should be considered airlocks by zombies)I really dislike that change, but sadly this won't ever come back.
Thing is: with "intelligent" zombies, you will always be able to abuse them because they follow a set of rules that can be abused.
If they did random stuff like hit support pillars even though they have a clear path, things would get interesting quickly.
But instead with age a counter-less demo zombie that just blows your base up... YAY fun 😕1 -
31 minutes ago, Urban Blackbear said:
I pretty much just disable horde night and I don't care if that makes me a scrub. I play solo and horde nights just leave me in an endless cycle of rebuild, get trashed, rebuild. Not fun for me.
And that is 100% ok. That is what options are for.
But if I want to struggle, having easy solutions ingame means I have to restrict myself... and then it is no longer fun.
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7 hours ago, Sydious said:
"They want a base that is 100% safe from harm" and yet they can not do that (to my knowledge), but they used to be able to if they so wished. Is that not the very definition of OP's statement.
What anyone thinks should or should not be allowed, for what ever reason, is not an argument to a factual statement.
They can do that.
By disabling the horde.
I do not want my base free from harm. I want to struggle. Find ways to survive.
But I can't do that if I know there is an easy solution. Ppl that want to be safe on horde night can simply disable it.
10 hours ago, Desmondbratcat said:Last time I tried building an underground base I dug a ladder to bedrock then a tunnel that was pretty long with doors along it before you even got to my base, I was digging out my base and turned around to have a screamer horde on me.
Build defenses on the entrance. Otherwise they are special zombies that sniff you out. I think that is a good thing.
And the block hp was a bad implementation of an ok idea. But they fixed it next patch after feedback.
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15 minutes ago, fragtzack said:
Forcing players to a particular "style" is utterly untrue.
again yes and no.
OPs point about underground bases was untrue.BUT there are situations where we are basically forced by the sheer difference in effectiveness.
Why would you ever sneak in a POI if they wake up anyways.Sure they don want 't disable sneaking, but they currently might as well have.
Yes it may get fixed in the future, but there are other things.
Try playing as a mole right now.
Staying in the wilderness and surviving on farming and looting only the trash and wilderness POIs.
You won't get NEARLY as much exp, the loot is (literal)garbage <lol> and you won't even be able to build a decent horde base because there are things that you simply can not get without a trader or looting bigger pois.
Cement is really hard to come by. A crucible nearly impossible.
So you sit on 999999 iron but can't do anything with it.
I am not saying that every play style should be equal.
BUT there are obvious... hints as to what TFPs want you to do and what they do not want you to do.
They want you to fight the horde.
No matter how many traps you set up, they all break within seconds, give reduced exp and after that all you can do is either sit them out or fight the Z's.
I remember spikepits. Sure there were a few exploits. But it was a lot of work and especially now with the demolisher, they wouldn't nearly work as well.
These things happened since I joined back in A8.
And not every change was bad. A lot of them good. BUT OP has a point.
They do "force" a certain play style by giving it all the advantages.
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I generally agree... but building underground is one of the few things I don't agree with.
You can still 100% do it. If you want to avoid horde nights, just disable them.
But it was an exploit that was fixed.
Zombies giving XP, crafting being as bad as it is rn, specific items that can only be gained via looting, weirdly one path POIs and now the sleeper volumes... those are all "incentives" to do a certain play style... and they should in a way stop that... or at least decrease their stubbornness
(YES mega this is an unfounded attack but it is also how I feel they decide on these things 😛 "I like it, therefor it stays. What? They don't play it that way? They are missing out! I will do this and that then they have to do it...")
So I agree with the general point, but disagree with some examples you gave.
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I'm not scrapping bootable cars (in single player).
Only time I do is when I do quests and they respawn.
It feels like a waste, since they have some good loot in them. Even if scrapping them would be 10x more efficient.2 -
1 hour ago, Roland said:
Ah….so force TFP into acknowledging officially what it considers a cheesy vs legit player base design…
Why not?
I personally don't see very many cheesy base designs on coop servers.
People that know what they are doing and actually want to have a good time build awesome structures that not only look impressive but also work.
I remember MM built a castle like structure in his gameplay videos.
I mean you can even combine this with a community event. Like what other games have done before.
"Here is how you build a poi...
Send us YOU coolest looking POI that you want other players to experience and the best 3-5 POIs get one free copy for their friends as well as get implemented into the main game in the next alpha! (with possibly minor changes)
"
Here you could actually introduce T6 POIs like that huuuuge underground base that one of the you tubers built in A11 I think.
There are SO many possibilities with very limited amount of work needed from TFPs themselves AND it would bolster publicity and give the community something to do. Win-Win-WinYou can even make it different properties. "small->huge" or "home base or horde base" and stuff like that.
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Very nice and I already know that, but I meant POIs that actually look player built.
Not this nice clean POI style of "real" houses.
You know... not a single POI of a player actually looks anything like a house. Because houses aren't practical for stashing stuff/survival nor for horde defending.
Remember those holes in the ground that led into a cave? That at least looked like something a survivor has built.
More like those.
Rough edges, unaligned corners, less color and more practical.
Something that you could theoretically take over as a horde base/base and it would do a decent job.
And yes it would look out of place for those that never played multiplayer, but that would quickly go away and players would start to integrate them into their ears game survival.0 -
11 hours ago, Laz Man said:
Have you tried the community compo pack? Apart from the very specific loot requirements and electrical traps, it has alot of experiences you are describing.
@stallionsden should be able provide you more info.
That sounds lovely.
But I was thinking about official "player built" pois.
I don't see a reason why they shouldn't include a few of those. The world feels so lifeless. The more seemingly player built things there are in the world, the more it looks like there are other survivors out there (like there are supposed to be, according to the lore)
I don't want "real" buildings like they have now, but what players would build. Hard corners, efficient design, electric traps funnels and so on.
I guess I could mod them in, but I can't see why something like that shouldn't be in the base game.0 -
What I mean is, why do we not see these weirder, more practical structures in the wild? The wild is so lifeless right now...
And they would make for AWESOME dungeons.
Just imagine you come across a castle, you go in and you trip a wire and an alarm goes off and hundreds of zombies ( similar to horde night) but you also have some defenses that you can use.
Then you go deeper inside and instead of zombie sleepers (yawn) there are still active traps.
Spikepits, Turrets, and so on and you have to somehow get through there.
And in the end there will be extreme loot. Especially rare stuff like acids and wheels and sewing kits (stuff you can not craft)
and depending on your game stage maybe even a vehicle.
I mean not every "player POI" has to be this elaborate, but if I play on multiplayer servers, these "ruins" of old player bases are everywhere. And it would make the world feel a bit more alive. Like there have been other survivors before you... and you are just one more survivor trying and struggling to survive.This would make the world feel more alive by like... 10 fold with the addition of maybe 5-10 pois.
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On 12/24/2021 at 4:37 PM, Roland said:
PvP is brought up because 50 people all cooperating isn’t likely. Sure, you may have competing teams but members of those teams are going to be PvPing with other team members. As soon as you start talking about large populations it really seems likely that we aren’t talking about purely cooperative gaming anymore.
Just chiming in to say:
I actually have the opposite experience. I like PvP.
But every time I look for popular servers, they are PvE cooperative servers. With huge horde bases, teleport commands, open traders or even whole trading cities (which are pretty much useless ever since gunport removal :D)PvE on large scales are EXTREMELY popular and I would even say more popular than PvP servers. I don't have data to back that up, but I actually have trouble finding decent PvP servers...
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I feel like upping the zombies pawns 2-4x increases the fun much more.
But feral sense feels wrong. They don't "see" 20 blocks, but hear you for 50 (in broad daylight) Even very silent noises will be heard from very far away, while they can't see you even with a clear line of sight.I feel it should be the other way around. Only hear loud sounds from far away but see you in daytime for a lot of blocks
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I think it should depend on the weapon.
Hittingg a zombie with a pipe baton and suddenly the head just... pops off just looks super funny
(*bonk* -> *plop* 🤣)
Every high impact dmg (guns) should pop the limbs
Every cutting weapon should make them pop off like they do now
and sledgehammers should impart velocity to the head to let it fly off in the direction of the swing!0 -
It is only a visual bug. It still gives the same amount of meat and the corpse loses its hp accordingly.
So you just kinda have to know how much dmg you want to do.0 -
I know that when lockpicking was first announced in like... A15 (when mines came to the wasteland with the excuse that you'd be able to pick them someday)
And when it was first introduced, they said that they were holding off on being able to lockpick doors... (and all other forms of openables like hatches and stuff)
Anyone know why they are still holding out?
With how bad sneak is nowadays (not even talking about A20 changes, but the wallsleepers and silent weapons waking them up), this would give at leastsome interesting gameplay options.I suppose they are scared that players would skip even more of their precious POIs? Or even worse, take a path they aren't supposed to?
I can't see another reason why this should not be implemented. It doesnt even take any more devtime. Just add the wallsafe code to doors ( with difficulties based on doortype)and viola... Some interesting new mechanic.
Does anyone have a more recent statement on this issue? (last I heard about it was... I think A16, maybe A17)
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Okay. So I play on insane with zombies always on either jog or springt (one speed slower than at night)
And I actually like this. I was able to do quests and even the vet didn't have a zombiedog early on.
So yes a traproom with no escape route is really brutal, but most traprooms do have a way out nowadays (which is great) you just need to run through the whole poi wakíng up every zombie on the way.
The direwolf spawn is known since A15 I think. I do not know why they do not fix this.
They always spawn in the first 3 days. And if you already have a base... tough luck.I generally like the ramped up difficulty. Although I think they often try to force difficulty through the wrong means ( losing 90 hunger a night when you are hurt is insane, especially on day 2-3)
You need to run away from zombies. That is a very good thing. Zombies are not meant to be XP piniatas. They are supposed to be a threat that is overcome by upgrading your gear.
If you can kill zombies easily with a wooden stick, why would you ever want to go out there and try and find better weapons?
On tip: The stone sledgehammer can help take care of single enemies. Watch your stamia and use strong attacks to knock them down and increase the distance.0 -
16 hours ago, meganoth said:
"Damaging volume enemy from outside a sleeper attack volume did not wake the volume".
I am so happy that I am on vacation for the next few weeks.
That was the ONLY way to make sneaking viable in some situations xD
I know fixing bugs is important. But this time they made another issue even worse
I just hope they take the feedback seriously and will work on it in upcoming patches. I mean even a simple numberchange for the stealthcheck would suffice as a temporary fix.0 -
I have a comblete chest full of Shotgun shells and am close to the 3rd horde.
I mean honestly if anyone has trouble with ammo, you need to learn not to spraw a simple crawler with half an M60 magazine!
Yeah could be reduced by... to about 1/5th its current value.
That way you might actually need to craft it some day.0 -
2 hours ago, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:
Solution for auto aggro is simple: throw a molly and boogie while they stumble around for a minute.
I'm glad that if this mechanic stays, the balance is that they aren't all immediately bum rushing you but stumbling and falling first and you have the advantage for a moment while they stand up.great for fighters. Not so great for those who rely upon their 400% sneak damage (+ 250% headshot dmg :P)
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5 minutes ago, Scyris said:
Don't even get me started on the fake walls with zombies behind them that are very rampant in A20, One Poi in A20 Exp almost every single sleeper was behind one of these.
The absolute WORST is when they are behind metal walls.
In that poi with the seperate garage and underground bunker, there is a hallway with like 14 fake walls that you need to check. It is super narrow so no chance to snipe the Z's behind. Once you break the wall and fail the check, even in stealth, all of them wake up. Now you gotta content with 4-6 radiated zombies in a narrow hallway. Running away is hard because you are alread overloaded and even if you manage, since it is such a narrow hallway with lights, reentering stealth only has limited usage.
Worst poi I had to do in a while!0 -
same for me.
I do not know what causes it.
For me, it just teleports. The cause for this is unknown and seems somewhat random.
Happened at my base once and three times at a quest location.
Has never completely disappeared, only teleported a max of ~10 blocks.0
Please stop trying to tell us how to play
in General Discussion
Posted
but the whole horde is balanced around the funneling. I would need an option for 5% block damage
maybe I am biased because I only see the concentrated damage (because they only hit one spot) but I feel like they are still FAR stronger than back then.
they constantly did random things. I never knew where they might break through next. And if I didn't have a perfect base yet (first 4-5 hordes) it was ALWAYS scary, because defending perimeter could never be perfect, so you'd hope they would come from one side, even going outside to lure them away from your weak side and stuff.
pretty sure you know why. 1) I did. I was ALWAYS pro fixing exploits. 2) it was an exploit, and it felt like using the console. At least with funneling I still have to do SOME stuff. Even if it is boring stuff like shooting for 5 minutes xD So I never felt like I am supposed to do that or suffer.
But the whole horde is and will be balanced around this mechanic now. Doing something different will probably make it way harder to do.
But enough of designtalk.
I just wish they would focus more on horror instead of cheap wall-zombie scares and tower defense (tower defense can also be nonlinear and somewhat unpredictable). But I guess I will need mods if I want horror in my horror survival game 😛
I can tell you... no they don't. At least not to any significant amount.
If you held up in a smaller poi in early alphas, they would make the house collapse.
Now they just try and get to you one by one by using their comrades as ladders.
Which is a nice mechanic... but they never feel like a threat. But this might be bias on my side.