Viktoriusiii
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Posts posted by Viktoriusiii
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@meganoth you talk about ammo...
and that I should play with 50% loot (which I already did... but it completely crashes the gamebalance)
But you forget one thing:
You shouldn't have the ammo Day 1-7 10PM.
But you need it for the hordenight.
I need about 100 bullets day 1-7 exploring, and I need 1500+ for hordenight (it scales with gamestage, but the ratio is more or less the same)
If there is less ammo, I can not defend for hordenight.
I would like it more, if I have the option to buy super expensive ammo at the trader for every weapon (I mean you can make endless ammo pretty quickly, if you are just lucky with the chemstation), but I want weapons to have more of an impact again.
Make weapons jam, scaling with their tier (with 6 never jamming) Maybe instant loss of 100 quality with one shot and you have to reload.
Make autofire guns SUPER rare and even then, let the durability scale exponentially (T1 50 shots per repair, T6 3000+ shots)
Make me never feel safe again. And those two are just the tip of the iceberg.
I know this is inevitable in the lategame. But then the genre switches to a builder and explorer type game, and that is ok.
PS:
just to rant a bit more.SpoilerRemember when they said they would bring weaponstats?
HA! Have you guys EVER felt a difference? MAYBE in a pistol, because +3 damage with a base of 15 is quite a lot)
But honestly, who cares about that little damage increase?
I was hoping for really individualized parts... instead they merged weaponparts (which is... ok I guess, but their new system is just so boring)
I think they should give guns "effects" like the player has.
"dirty" -> 5% increased chance for jamming, 10% lower accuracy
"extremely dirty" -> 10% increased chance for jamming, 20% lower accuracy
"wet" -> 5% chance of bullet launching and weapon needs immediate repair.
"used" -> 1% chance of jamming, when it jams 30% chance to get "old"
"old" -> 0.01% chance (increasing over time) of breaking instantly, giving you only one weaponpart
"new" -> halves all negative buffs
"self-made" -> 10% quicker fire, it takes 50% longer for negative status effects to trigger
those are just off the top of my head to make weapons a bit more complex.I know TFPs hate complexity, or at least think that in 90% of cases, complexity is not as important as inclusivity/accessability, but a man can dream.
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19 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
Why don't we flip the script, and right off the bat you just tell us all, ignorant people, what this game is?
An open world looter shooter with simulation and strategy sprincled in.
If you want to use the absolute bare bones description, you could use "TD" as in "there will at some time be a horde that comes in waves".
Also it was a TD game in A17. That was the problem. They followed one path and one path only. It still is to an extent (you can still funnel them into a corridor), but my argument is it SHOULDN'T be, because that means it devalues the aspect of defending a parimiter.
You can not have parimiter defence (3D where everything needs to be defended) and TD "one path only".
That was my whole argument. It is mutually exclusive.
1 =/= >118 minutes ago, meganoth said:Less ammo is "promised" as the traders were still not balanced in A19.
Honestly, traderammo was never something I bought (maybe just to stock up for hordenight, because you need like 3000 bullets a night), but never for exploration.
The problem is with the lootcontainers at the end of a POI. They just give so SO SOOO much of everything, that you don't need to loot anything else, except for ressources.
Remember back in the day? When you were SO HAPPY if your city had a POI with a gunsafe in it?
You had to unlock it for 50 seconds, but you could hear zombies coming closer? Or even with the pickaxe where it lured Z's to your position?
Now you have 3 crates, a gunsafe, one or two ammobags and if it is a bigger poi a gunsafe AND a big chest thing in every poi.
That just screws the balance.
They should make it simply (if they can, but I heard they have so much space now for new POIs):
House (<T4) version normal: 1-2 boxes (working stiff, maybe even shotgun messiah or shamway... and MAYBE every 5th has a secret stach
House (<T4) version clear quest: 1-2 boxes, 2 ammocontainers, and every 2-3 pois have a gunsafe.
T4 can have an extra secret stach when clearing
and T5 & 6 can have what they have now WHEN DOING THE CLEAR QUEST.
That would already make it feel so much less like a looter-shooter.
It would still not quite be horror again, but it would give a reason to be scared.
I've made a list of things I think they should change (where nothing was any BIG effort, stuff like reviving a Z a random amount of seconds after it has been killed)but I suppose I just don't know what I'm talking about 😕
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7 hours ago, unholyjoe said:
some people consider changing a baby's dirty diaper as "horror"
some feel dealing with hard headed kids to be "horror"
some consider teachers as "horror"
most feel that working is a "horror"
some act as tho missing the "LBD" in this game as "horror"
if you make a baby-diaper-changing simulator and classify that as horror, you will be sued for false advertising.
I mean you might be able to to do it in a satiric way with jumpscares, making fun of modern horror games (that is ACTUALLY a pretty funny idea)
BUT it is not a horrorgame and you know it.It is a clearly defined genre with clear markers of what makes it horror.
8 hours ago, Jugginator said:That comes from playing the game a ton. I've introduced a few new players lately and they're all terrified especially at night lol
the only way I could explain this is that they do not know where the loot is and therefor do not have weapons/ammo.
Which is nice. But only reinforces my point (if it is the case) that the gunloot is FAR too over the top for this game to be a horrorgame.But if you know a different reason, please be my guest. But I don#t know how you could be scared with an ak47 and 50 bullets
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1 hour ago, Roland said:
Some people thought that LBD...
while LBD was a big draw for me (I had it before we even had skills so I didn't buy it FOR that)
I am not refering to it when I talk about genre change.
I can still remember the first few alphas.
I sat at night in my little 5x5 wooden home, as I heard the zombies run around my base.
Why? Because you were lucky to find a crossbow book on day 10 (or even before books)
It felt like a struggle. You had to claw and fight your way to get weapons and ressources.
Now you have these insane loot containers that should probably only ever be at an unreachable position (so no nerdpolling and so on) to reward going through a poi.
Maybe they are only there after you finish a clear quest.
But right now, if you don'T have 4 guns at day 7 with ~100-300 ammo, not only will hordenight be tough on you (if you want to defend your post) but it feels bad because you know you were unlucky.
It is a looter shooter, because at no poin in the game do you ever not have guns, except for the first few days, maybe even hours after you start.
I do not feel scared because I know I always have enough ammo to fight everything.
The thrill does not come from beeing helpless (like you should be in horrorgames) and picking your fights carefully, but you just mow down cannonfodder that gets gradually harder to kill.
AND IT IS A FUN LOOTER SHOOTER.
disclaimer: There is a SLIGHT possibility, that this game was never a horrorgame and the horror just came from me not knowing the game.
I highly doubt it, but I do not want to sound like this is 100% fact when i could just have rosetinted glasses.
But you can not tell me that it is a horror game anymore. Just because it has zombies and a few of them literally fall from the ceiling, does not make it horror.
I am not scared of zombies. Even on harder difficulty, I am not scared, because I know with the right tactic I can beat them.
That is not horror.
Horror is not knowing what will happen next.
Horror is beeing unsure if you can handle whatever comes next, even if you know.
Horror is trying to escape from something you know in theory is faster than you.
Horror is avoiding conflict and beeing the underdog when you have to confront it.
Going into any building you like guns blazing, xp farming while yoloing around is NOT horror.
It is a fun looter-shooter, but not horror.
Give me one person ANYWHERE after A16 that was genuinely scared (and I'm not talking about "oh my god how can they come out of the fake walls and fall from the roof" horror, but unknowing horror. The kind that slenderman or outlast gives you.
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20 hours ago, Kyonshi said:
I enjoy reading the replies and i believe everyone's take about the subject is important. Even the one from those who are going the other way from the majority, like Viktoriusiii, who's demonstrating the kind of mentality i think is fundamentaly flawed and that i was talking about initially. He/She delivers his/her point way less aggressively and with more respect than what i observe on Facebook though.
Thank you. It is totally ok if people disagree.
I just think many people let their emotions get the better of them (me included, especially after people have talked @%$# for no reason :D)
Often majority opinion is just BS of people who either all go with their feeling (I like to play 7D2D therefor, TFPs are doing a good job) or are just repeating/following peer pressure. AND the community of regular posters are pretty same minded...
Roland is often a good mediator, but he also falls victim to... beeing a bit more passive agressive than necessary 😛 Which spurs people like me on to get @%$#y
20 hours ago, Kyonshi said:As an overview of the whole thing, i think its a shame that indie developers have to deal with this bull@%$# when they bust their asses with far more limited resources than major studios. We see the laters launch AAA titles that are plagued with bugs, for 90$, and some of those flaws are easily a result of an amateur, rushed and careless job (hello Bethesda, Ubisoft and CD Projekt Red).
Okay... so imagine you buy a puzzle.
That puzzle has the image of dogs, which you love and has about 300 pieces of the guessed finished 500.
You buy that because they say they need the money to finish it and promise to finish it and fix the parts that are broken.
After 7 1/2 years, of the 50 broken puzzles, only a handful are still broken, YAY. But they still are broken and unusable in places.
BUT in the meantime, you had a good time... but every few months, they changed the design a bit.
They added parts, deleted some... repainted others.
Now it is still a puzzle, but it is only 200 pieces now because they said it was too difficult for younger players, the image of dogs was scrapped and now it is a farm where a dog is in the background and there are still about 100 pieces missing.
Would you say that the buyer was 100% rewarded and should not have any right to complain?
With excuses like "well there is still a dog" and "the game has become a lot easier to get into" and "the design is far more visually pleasing!"
But your 500 piece dogpicture, it is no more.
It was not advertised, that the dogs owuld go away, just that the puzzle is "subject to small changes". Nor were you made aware of the other changes.
I understand why many people are mad at them.
7D2D is not a horrorgame anymore. It has become more survival in 19 and I support that. But it is not an RPG, it is a lootershooter. And everyone who says otherwise seems to have a very different definition of these genre.
7D2D has gone through so many iteration of features that I sometimes forget about gunmolds...
And I do like that they try out stuff... but 7 1/2 years of alpha is...
Well lets just say it is justified that websites and people are making fun of them. I personally do not ascribe to that, I find it admirable that they still work on the game, BUT I also would like to see the game finished in my lifetime...
*rambling off*0 -
7 hours ago, Laz Man said:
Who are we to say what genres can or cannot be mixed together?
It is not wether they can exist together.
I can also put a big block of ice on a campfire.
But one WILL take away from the other.
And that is not an opinion. You can not have a free builder AND a "follow set path" without the builder feeling somewhat pointless.
Sure I could imagine a game that exists where you can build and direct the enemies to your liking while the rest is a builder... but that only means that the two features don't lock in with each other.
It is basicially two different games then. A builder and a TD game.
Just linked by a small chain of... 'ressources' maybe?0 -
3 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
Kingdoms and Castles and Sanctum (1&2) for example.
They're not very common, but they do exist.
As far as I cna tell the A.I. is not heatseeking either.
They attack the closes points. But that is not the same as following one exact path to the weakest point.
Also... that is a 2D game...
Yes it is in 3D, but there are only 2 axis.
I was a HUGE fan of a WC3 mod called "Geldteilen" (and other similar ones) where it was actually necessary to exploit the A.I. with some classes to get the most out of your tower.
But those are not the same.
While this is somewhat a builder, it is not really a TD game.
That is because TD means trying to defend with stategic placement of traps and towers...
This is just a strategy game like any other.
Stronghold is not a tower defense game, no matter what you wanna claim.
If we include games like this, TD Games lose their meaning and we need another name for the ACTUAL TD games.
PS: Could someone move all the irrelevant posts for the OP?
This has become so far off topic, I feel sorry for OP, but I can't let inaccuracies stand like that
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2 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
Absolutely not. There are several TD titles that have had a fair amount of success in the last years that are exactly 3D traditional TD games.
give me a single 3D builder TD game.
Like where you can build in 3D space, but the A.I. only ever follows the easiest path.
Because those two concept are, as I said, mutually exclusive. Where the one excels, the other one has to compromise.
If they only take one path, the rest of the build is pointless, if they don't take a single path, it is not a traditional TD (which is fine! I was just saying that them following one path makes building in 3D space totally obsolete.
Why build a maze, if they only ever follow one path?0 -
36 minutes ago, Laz Man said:
I can empathize with players who don't like tower defense game mechanics but this is actually working as designed. There needs to be some degree of predictability in order to plan your defenses against it.
The AI will most certainly continue to be tweaked further to hit a "sweet spot" of predictability but with some variation, especially as bandits and special infected are introduced.
But... this isn't a traditional TD game.
You can not make a traditional TD game (so a 2D game with only one path) in a 3D builder, without one or the other feeling useless.
They are mutually exclusive genres.
I like the TD aspect of the game actually. I love building traps and seeing them in action.
But not on a 2D plane, but as a 3D "denfed everywhere or they might break through" kinda thing.25 minutes ago, Laz Man said:Yep, until we have Hal9000 level AI lol, some players will eventually learn the AI behavior and request more randomness because now its too easy.... or claim its broken because they cant beat it.
The demo zombie were exactly that until players cracked it and there are enough youtube videos showing how....😅
Nonono.
there is a difference between " a toddler can make out the pattern" and out of 3 million players, a handful have cracked it and are sharing it online.
There IS a difference.That is the same argument as the cheating argument.
There is a difference between a broken feature that lets you win the game easily (lets say RL had no friendly fire and endless ammo, and that was intended) and a cheat that you purposefully need to activate through a console, which you might also need to activate in the .ini file.
Saying "just don't activate the console" is valid.
Saying "just don't use the intended ingame possibilities" is not.
Same here.
Saying "a toddler can make a base that outsmarts teh zombies"
and "I needed to look in the internet, where every answer is somewhere" is not the same.
I still do not have a way to fight sploders. And I love it.
If it was super easy like "they are vulnerable to fire and instantly die", I wouldn't enjoy it.
But if I need to look online for like a specific trapsetup that kills them without exploding, then that is absolutely fine.
Those that want it, can look it up, those that don't, dont.0 -
32 minutes ago, Roland said:
What @Laz Man meant is that they can duck and crawl when the space is less than 2m high. So for example, all those bases that use a 1 1/2 meter opening that we can duck and crouch through but the zombies can't....now the zombies can in A20. The animation is a crawl but faatal has not adjusted pathways for any zombie that allows them to crawl through a 1m space and won't do that until A21.
Okay... well that is not what the devpost said, but nice to hear that!
32 minutes ago, Roland said:A lot of people hated A17 because they felt the behavior didn't fit what zombies should be able to do. For them, the most important thing was consistent dumb zombies that "don't have a degree in engineering or ESP abilities about structure they don't have line of sight to" For me and others like me, A17 was a blast because we just forgave the misfit behavior and got to having fun finding new ways to adapt.
While this argument certainly is valid, there was, I feel an even bigger problem, which was the gameplay.
You said zombies were scarier than ever before.
For me, they were just tightrope walking piniatas.
They were 100% predictable.
It was never easier to build a 100% hordesafe base with like 20 blocks and the fact that they all came running down the same small hallway made it extremely easy... laughably easy to survive ANYTHING.
There was no need to upgrade your whole base.
Just make everything cobblestone and leave a 1x2 opening and they will funnel through it.
While beeing absolutely hilariously bad behaviour, the biggest problem was that I and as far as I have read the reviews and feedback support me on this, that they became super predictable, and therefor easy to exploit. WAY too easy to exploit.
There were exploits in <A16 and there always will be.
But in A16 they were far more complex and without a youtube video to help, you probably didn't stumble upon it by chance.
In A17 it was literally "they walk in a line and always take the path of least resistance, lets make a funnel ontop of another funnel and just shoot lul"0 -
@Laz Man sorry buddy
On 10/29/2020 at 2:49 AM, madmole said:19) AI and Sleeper Improvements - Pushed to A21
- Zombies can crawl through 1-meter holes
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3 hours ago, BFT2020 said:
Listening to feedback is one thing; obligated to make changes based on feedback is something different and not a requirement for EA games.
Well if you have 100 requests and only 2 are actually fulfilled... I would not say that they listen (numbers are hyperbolic).
That is more like random chance that they wanted to do it anyways.
Listening is nice, but I feel like (personal opinion) they do not actually take it into consideration... or at least not for long.
Which means listening becomes pointless, because the result is not changed. I can claim a wall is listening to you, but you wouldn't try to convince it of anything.
I don't think they are OBLIGATED to. But I do think that pushing your vision against the paying supporters is not ideal.
And they have done that time and time again. A17 was just the most major one, because it basicially changed the genre, was released WAY too early to be sold in the wintersales and made modding a lot harder to do. It was an all in one FU to the community.
But this was by far the only time. Just with smaller stuff.
And I think TFPs are right on the edge of what I would call acceptable.
They at least do have active moderators that keep us informed and they give us Alpha updates so we know what is coming...
But when it comes to feedback...
They are one of the worst devs of any EA game. There are some that simply abandon the project, they are obviously much worse.
But in all my time here on the forum and on youtube... I have rarely, if ever, seen them take feedback to heart. Because they have their vision and they follow it.
Which is fine... I would still appreciate it if they gave in once or twice.
2 hours ago, meganoth said:In Germany there is a legal concept of "no surprises" at least for private customers. Therefore whatever Valve promises for EA titles is actually binding, whatever can reasonably be expected as well is a grey area for the courts.
How surprising, would you say, would it be if 7d2d became a racing game? 🤔
Food for thought! 😆1 -
Okay there is two ways to see this issue:
The legal view and the moral view.
The legal view is pretty easy to answer:
They gave a statement about what they want to include and worked on the game AND you got what you were promised. At least like to a significant percentage.
Therefor legally, TFPs are in the clear.
If you wanna know how hard it is to actually sue a game, look at chronicals of elyria.
They got millions of $, had years and years of development, but other than a few pretty pictures and a preview of stuff that could have been done in a few days in any engine (with the promise (this is totally on a big server)... and the lawsuit still took a lot of lawyers and many MANY outcries.
Lets see if they can get their money back.The "moral" view is a bit more complex.
What did you buy when you bought the game? The right for EA? The completed game? The right to influence like stocks?
There is I think no clear answer.
But I do think that you should not make an EA game, if you do not care for your players opinions.
They TWICE listened to player feedback, and that was the bearmodel and the burning Z model.There might be instances where they did as well... but not on the MAJOR complaints, again, at least not to my knowledge.
BUT this is their right to do so. I just wished they would go less with "their vision" that changes every two alphas and a bit more open to the community feedback.
I think any person is entitled to their opinion. No matter how bad it would be for 99% of other players. And if I want to own an icecreamtruck and sell icecream to bandits, then that is my wish.
But all too often I see people wish for something a bit too agressively and beeing hunted down and beeing told "this is not your game!".
So I am in the middle. I accept that it is their game, I still wish they would listen a bit more to the community, since without them their EA game wouldn't have been paid.1 -
45 minutes ago, warmer said:
people that say programming AI is simple, have never programmed AI
Well yes obviously. But the point is, they already HAVE that A.I. with the zombies.
They already have Waypoint A (zombies current position) and Waypoint B (the player).
So they already have the most complex thing out of the way.
I'm not an idiot. I know @%$# is complicated. But what I meant was that they already have everything they would need for it.0 -
2 hours ago, meganoth said:
So stuff like bandits wandering in the cities and clearing them out would basically be a random roll on POIs whether they are already cleared out or not.
NOOOO! I don't care for the loot.
I want to see how the bandits move out of their base, walk in the city, kill zombies and walk back to their camp.
This is so simple:
waypoint A is their base.
check in radius of like 400 blocks for simple pois (preferrably in the city)
make them walk there like zombie pathfinding
spawn in some zombies at waypoint B&C
let them go inside POI, spawn some more zombies , let them fight
move out and go back to base.
Also I want REAL fights. where some bandits might die not simulated like in a cutscene. That shouldnt be hard, just declare both parties enemies and boom.
I don't care if stuff is looted afterwards, that was just an addon for realism.
I don't want it to happen offscreen. Everything happens offscreen in 7D2D. As you said it is a player-centric game. But not in a good way.
Nothing happens if the player is not there. And that is what I find the sadest thing. It doesn't feel like the world is alive.0 -
2 hours ago, Roland said:
You do know that they haven’t really begun to work on bandits, right?
😨they WHAT?
beeing "pushed back" usually means "hey sorry guys, we tried, but they are not quite finished, so we push their release back a bit"They had the models done ages ago and some basic melee with the trader as well...
But why would they say every alpha "THIS alpha, they come out" only to say they moved it back after like... half a year?
Don't they know better? o_o Now I actually feel kinda lied to.
It sounded more like a feature that was so complex that it just NEEDED more time... now you tell me they haven't been working on it whatsoever?
*breathe* 1...2...3...
Okay... thank you for enlightening me. That just... came as a shock to me.Buuut... I'm sure they will do ok... eventually
Like they recovered from A17... still a lootershooter, but a good one.So they will probably eventually do things the right way
guess only thing I can do is wait and see.
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1 hour ago, meganoth said:
But I don't see why they should do that. Bandits are supposed to be end-game enemies. This upgrading would instead make a bandit camp something you could take on at any stage of the game. Instead of it being the carrot to make you get better armor and weapons and perks.
see... now I do not get that WHATSOEVER.
Why can't bandits evolve WITH you?
Gamestage x => x + y = stone
Gamestage x + y => x + z = scrapGamestage x + z => x + yz = tier 1
I would like to see bandits with sledgehammers.
I would like to see them use the blunderbuss.
Why can't they start their camp with like a basic tent and ring of spikes day 0-7 (I'd love them to spawn in later at random "empty" poi spots so you don't see them immediately and it feels like they work WITH the world) then you see a basestructure that has quite a few unfinished towers and stuff, then the wall is complete but only one side is fortified... like... I think 6 stages is more than enough then add like 3 different varieties and it should be fine.
But what I absolutely hate about 7d2d (again: love the game. bought it on release on steam and have been quite active... wouldn't be if I disliked the game on the whole) is that it feels so god damn static.
Nothing in it changes. And bandits and NPCs NEED to change that.
A basebuilding system is one way, but another FAR more important in my opinion is behaviour.
Let them wander to cities... let them clear out easy, noncomplex pois (just going in, trigger zombies walk out, empty 50% of lootcrates inside)
I don't need harder enemies (coming from me, the guy who always asked for harder difficulty, that means something ;D) that can shoot.
I mean I won't complain, but there is no need for them. What this game needs is a heart. A breathing, changing world.
Not every poi. Not every minute of every day.
Just... SOMETHING.
Moving traders, bandits, random NPCs that build their own hordebase...
OBVIOUSLY the more complex the better, but I understand that there are limits.
But SOMETHING is not too much to ask...51 minutes ago, Roland said:“If the devs don’t implement x in the way I like, then they should not implement it at all” is a selfish statement.
If a feature, that brings nothing new to the table, is beeing developed for nearly half the devtime and is STILL beeing pushed out... it is time to scratch it. That is what I wanted to say. Zombies with guns are nothing we need. We need, as said, interesting new behaviour.
And if what MM advertised comes to pass, that is a good step in the right direction... but I have been burned before by his words, so I won't get my hopes up
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8 hours ago, Roland said:
Welcome back Vik
You know
Back then your reply would have made me mad
Now, I just wanna say:
Individual opinion is not egotistical.
If I say "I will flip the $%&§" that is not a threat "do it or else" just...
I won't like it whatsoever.
I have a strong opinion about that, nothing more. I am not egotistical or smallminded for beeing on the extreme end of the spectrum.
Just because 90% won't care, 5% will love them and 5% will hate them (numbers pulled out of the arse of the "normal distribution"-bell curve of extremes), does not mean that the 5% have no right to their opinion.
And it does not mean that one should only take into account the other 95%.
But honestly... I just wanted to vent a bit. And I was so very bored, that I actually came back, trying to voice an opinion on here 😂Well... have fun again Roland! Good to see, some things never change!
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Well I'm back with some negativity:
If bandits don't have at least SOME amount of base usage and daily routine, I will just flip the sh*t again at TFPs.
Bandits were first teased in A12 I think?
Since then, modders have integrated them weeks after the models have been released.
I haven't played those mods... but if we have to wait like 5-6 years for a feature that is taking modders weeks... it better be worth it.I am not hating (yet) I get that official integration is harder than just modding...
BUT if they are just zombies with guns, aimlessly wandering around the place with no ryhme or reason... OHHHH you better not integrate them at all!
If that is the best you can do, do the behemoth ziplines and scratch it!
I am still waiting for the "RPG" features that were teased 3-6 alphas ago (honestly, the alphas just blend into oneanother for me)... but to this day it still is not... not even hinted at.
And no, just because you can act like you are a cowboy does not make it an rpg.
I can act like I'm pyro from TF2 in TF2, but it is still just a shooter.
This game is a survival shooter.
RPG elements are interactions with the world. NPCs, story, narrative.
So yeah... if bandits actually give a story, I will be all for them.
If they are just moving loops with guns... or are just at a single premade poi that respawns them like they were zombies...
if they can not interact with the world (repairing stuff, maybe even building stuff), honestly... just scrap them and work on passive npcs.2 -
16 minutes ago, leaderdog said:
Steep slopes - No one walk up them, and or have zombies attack them, see my last post.
swimming zombies - I can't tread water worth crap. I can swim just fine. make it so stam drain is sensible in water so you can't just tread water all night. you might be able to float on your back - I can't dense bones, but still simple solution and doesn't require a cheesey zombie change.
Digging zombies - as a developer accept that some people don't want to deal with the horde (since they removed horde night as an option) why have zombies chewing up the landscape. This just could have been left alone.
and people will always find exploits... it's what they do when they're trying not to die.
Steep slopes caused pathing issues. Should they need to destroy blocks to make a stairway? Quiteop if you ask me. But sure, they could have.
swimming Z's: I always found it weird that they couldn't float a little. Yes they probably should just be as fast as the player... but I have no idea what that even influences.
A base under water is fun... but not possible to defend. A stiltbase was an exploit with or without water.
Digging Z's: they didn't remove hordenight as an option, what are you talking about? Just set the frequency to Disabled and all is well if you don't like bloodmoons.
true ppl will always find exploits. But Devs should always seek to make them as hard as possible to find.
Exploits should be found, reported and never used again.
Some little tricks are absolutely fine. Like... how to get a pick day 1. But as soon as you completely break the flow and the challenges of the game, it needs to be fixed, no matter how much you personally like it. THAT is (and I do not use this reasoning lightly since I hate it myself when used incorrecty) what mods are for.YOU want there to be exploits and that is fine. But devs shouldn't try to accompany everyone who wants an exploit to stay in the game.
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48 minutes ago, leaderdog said:
[...]
Well... how would YOU have solved those issues?
Sure there might have been better ways, and I am surely nobody to be a TFPs lackey, but these issues had to be adressed someway or another.
The most important thing is for the challenge to stay viable. And as I said you can't have a viable challenge if there are exploits.
AFTER that you should be allowed to play however you like. But that doesn't mean every way should be just as valid. There is just no way to have everything be exactly the same. Things have benefits and weaknesses. Sneakbuild is awesome at clearing pois but bad at hordenight. Melee is ammo conserving but dangerous, M16 is a hordenight-zombie-shredder but uses more bullets than you could count.
But if the options are:
give up 10 seconds of your time to get the most awesome loot and be able to do that like 10 times per city
or
take 20 minutes clearing the poi to get the samethere is just no comparison. And with the stone age these exploity behaviours are reduced, ESPECIALLY in the earlygame where you can cheese this the most, having Q5 shotty and ak in Week 1.
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22 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:
Imho the game shouldn't force a playstyle. And it's not the games task to protect idiots from their own stupidity. If they WANT to cheese into loot rooms, let them do so.
I do not want to min/max by stopping looting, i would stop looting because it becomes boring if i knew from the start there is not even a chance to find better equipment. Instead just fight some Zs until you reach the next "level" and then loot again. Maybe the meantime can be used to farm wood, stone, etc and build/advance your base.
You got it the wrong way around.
A challenge is only a challenge, if there is no easy way out.
If there is, it makes the whole challenge meaningless.
This is the same discussion as safe bunkers, hordenight-exploits and all the other exploits people used to do that got fixed.
Sure you can get joy out of a challengless game.But I have a pro tip: activate cheat-mode and press 'U' and you can have all the easy loot you desire.
As long as this game is a survival game, I expect survival beeing a challenge.
And beeing rewarded with weapons for doing the "frame up"->"frame down" move is not something anyone can call a challenge.
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21 hours ago, Bubbahotetp said:
Why thanks, now they're going to remove that too. They don't want you to be safe, so if there is something - keep it to yourself lest you want the devs to "fix" it. The game is not about choice and fun, it's about killing players and their bases.
Why not simply disable bloodmoon if you wanna be safe tho o_O
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11 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:
Was it the dog horde with the zombie bear? The one that starts at gamestage 5, just like it has since A17? GS 5/55/105/etc...
didnt see a bear... but he might have been slower! I instantly closed the game and restarted in cheatmode (because F*** that $%&§! )
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Posted
I can see your point. But with Z's sometimes hitting you even though they are out of range and melee beeing... well the way melee is now, I can not confidently say that on insane I could fight off the horde with melee.
And spikes honestly don't do anything anymore. They get AT MOST 2 Zs and they will actively avoid them (because they are blocks)...
I know back in the day, 10 rows of wooden spikes (which was quite a lot of wood back then too) would basicially stop the first and maybe the 2nd hordenight.
MY houses always looked like porkupines (with logspikes at the end, but they had to remove those too #riplogspikes)
now, I usually don't even go for spikes, because I am far more efficient, just farming lootcrates.
I think I like my way (of really reducing weaponprobability) more than the ammo part...
because if you find a good weapon you should go "AWWW HELL YEA!!!" and not "god dammit I only have 5 bullets for that!"
But the coreargument is the same, we are just talking about implementation.
But in its current state, while I am certain you could play it differently, this game is a lootershooter and horror is MAYBE an element with false floors dropping into a Z ridden bunker (actually the only time I got genuinely scared was a burned farm that dropped you into water with Z's sleeping all around you!)