BasicallyACat

I suspect that your point with these replies is to get me to react so that you can tin-badge me out of here. I think we're gonna disagree about whether the vanilla game's book 'read' icon sucks or not. It's poor design to make something like this hard to notice, which is why I mod it. I know visual design principles well enough, it's a crap design. And the reason I think we won't agree on that is that you're bending over backward for TFP in response to so many things I've said here. Multiple modders have made the zombie visual and/or physical variety better. Why are you talking smug like I have to be a professional game designer to get this? I've seen multiple people who don't work for TFP improve it. Don't tell me it's not simple, pray tell. The 'option' you state to remove the starter quest defeats the purpose since the 4 skill points aren't given. Surely you know this, so why are you being disingenuous about it? Why defend the low points of 7DTD with this kind of disingenuousness instead of accepting valid criticism? If cancelling the quest cashes you out the 4 points, and that's something I don't know, still.... why not just put the option not to activate the quest in the server settings? That's not hard. I learned to use the mods and edit xmls precisely because TFP doesn't put the settings in the interface. If you're saying xml edits = interface, you're just flat out talking horsecrap now. How much are they paying you to moderate in this knee-jerk fashion? Still pending... stiill pending...... still pending......... Guy, the game has been in alpha for over a decade. Don't act dismissive of valid complaints. It's just making me hate these boards and TFP if that's how you're gonna super-moderate. Grow up for chrissake. A thing can be a mix of good and bad.

Seems pointless to me. At early levels it takes time to go refill jars, it takes wood to purify the water, and you don't have a forge yet to create tons of jars. If the game has enough time pressure in general, it doesn't matter if fresh water pressure goes away at some point if it's replaced by other things. Societies generally create a surplus of basic needs so that the people can do other things. The game doesn't have to be broken if the players evolve past water and food scarcity. Make it about something else, like getting better tech for the increasing blood moons, or a campaign mode or whatever. If I can never make jars nor buckets that help me get water from the lake that is right there, but I can make machine parts and electronics and a truck, that's dumb. Maybe the change to water will work to make the gameplay more interesting, resulting in a net-positive, and maybe it won't work. But I don't get the reflexive defending, though. It's not odd to expect SOME gameworld logic. Some of that makes the gameworld have appropriate flavor. If you could make a stick, and you could make a knife, but you couldn't sharpen the stick to make a spear, or if you could make a stone axe and a stone shovel and a stone arrow but not a stone spear, you could only find a spear, that would be stupid. If you couldn't start a fire, only find a fire, that would be stupid. The same could be fairly said about things like buckets, jars, glass bottles, etc.

I'm not saying I'm in the majority about the water containers. I'm not saying I'm right that the upcoming change won't work. I'm guessing for now. No big deal. But I am saying that game companies don't take a note most of the time, even if there is fan consensus about a problem, and even if the game is pretty good. This happens in gaming all of the time, and part of the lack of pressure on game companies is that people just fanboy, they don't pressure the companies. If TFP wants to be different like that, they can. Will they? It's not always 17 different opinions about what the right choice is. And with 10 years of water jars, maybe just leave it alone? Waters jars ain't where the game is imperfect. There are mods that make the game better, 90% of people would agree, and TFP hasn't take those simple changes and fixes into account. A graphic that shows you whether you've read a given schematic should have been incorporated into the game ages ago. The game doesn't have visually and behaviorially varied zombies to the degree that it easily could. The game doesn't have an option to turn off the starter quest. The game doesn't have settings for roaming hordes or other extended settings. The game doesn't have balanced sound effects. The game doesn't show what POI goes with a quest in the first screen with quest selection, so instead you have to back out if you want to pick a different quest POI. The game has corpses stay too long such that it affects performance. You can't tell me that fans are actually split on these things. Not everything is a fan debate. My claim is just that even good game companies with good games still trip over their dicks sometimes. That's not always about a variety of tastes. I don't know why you'd feel the need to defend TFP or anybody like that.

I mean, we're gonna try it with an open mind, but at first glance it sounds like a game company overcooking something. If I can carry stacks and stacks of other stuff but not bottles which would be everywhere, that breaks the game logic. I can carry so much stone and clay that I can make a fort out of my pocket. Why say that kind of stack-inventory system is fine for so many things but not bottles/jars? Why can I make a gyrocopter but not a glass or clay jar? Maybe the new system will make enough sense that it doesn't matter, maybe not. This is the same game company that refuses to admit that the yucca smoothie should cool you down and not warm you up. Game companies can do five things right and then just fumble the hell out of it. Take Fallout 76 as a similar example: good IP, good core idea, bad execution based on dumb over-management. I don't particularly hold out hope that TFP will take a note from fans, because most game companies don't take a note.

Dude this is some hardcore fanboying you're doing. The inventory system doesn't work that realistically with stone, wood, meat, etc etc. You're picking and choosing.

We have a question about the new looting system with the bonuses to find things in the looter's skill tree. Does this apply across a party, or is it only character by character? Also, yeah, we don't get the idea of having no empty bottles anymore. It just doesn't fit the gameworld logic.

Ok so.... Strangely we didn't have the problem with a very quick test in a test game. But then when we tried to load it into our normal 3-player game, we had errors when the other players started to load in, and we couldn't party up. For now we are going to pull it but we could test it again. On our side we have a few things going on: Mac and PC, everyone's playing in a new instance and not directly through Steam.

We pulled the ones you made from 5ish days ago right away. We will try the smaller one 3440 tonight and see if we have any issues, first with a test game. We might cry if it breaks our main game because we are crazy enough to play in TEAM IRONMAN mode and nobody has died for a while.... but we won't blame you. As far as user experience goes, frankly we'd be happy with like 5 of each zombie.... just anything to break up the monotony of seeing the same dingus over and over. EDIT: how much harder do you think it makes the average zombie? I couldn't remember if yours was predominantly cosmetic or not, but I see in your notes on github that it makes them harder. We have one other zombie mod in there, two modlets from Improved Hordes by "filunderscore". I put a 'z' in front of your 3 modlet folders (2 animals, 1 zombies).

So we had some sort of problem related to players not being able to 'see' each other in the screen where you party up. I didn't think to take the screenshot, but we could maybe try to reproduce the problem if you have no idea what might be causing that. The problem happens with your modlets in, but when we remove them and return to our original set of modlets, we're fine.

Thanks for this. We are going to try it and we will get back to you with what we see. I understand about life getting in the way. Kind of you to take a minute to generate something for A20.

@doughphunghus There are three mods that randomize zombies. Bragado's Zombie Fiesta is currently bugged to spawn ferals and radiated on day 1, which is not fitting our ironman playstyle. You're is out of date and requires Perl installation, if I understand correctly. Trub64's isn't hosted anywhere where it can be verified as safe. I'm sure you agree that more zombie randomization rules, or you wouldn't have made the mod. Do you have any thoughts on if I'm wrong about any of the above, or how to solve the current state of affairs? Cheers, and thanks for the mods. BAC

disregard

All of those workarounds and mod plans sound good. But I'd strongly recommend taking the honey out of the spoilage system. If you do a quick search on how long honey lasts you'll find different ways of answering the question but it's reasonable to say 'thousands of years'. The consequence after a few years is only that it's less yummy (the aeromatics from flowers fade away). I think it'd be a bad mistake to have the in-game honey continue to spoil. We haven't gotten to the mod for a few days but hopefully we will play more of the June08 version tonight.

Re: guide Does this mean we're waiting a bit until Dark is done? That's ok by me since I'm a little swamped for another week. Re: spoilage The worst thing so far is that the honey spoils, which defies common sense. The most unclear part is if only stacked items affect each other, or if entire containers affect each other. It'd be good to know if what's in the same container affects each other as a game mechanic or not. Ideally spoilage rate slows down with some combination of the skill of the cook and if the food is in a special container. Pre-industrial societies definitely did things with snow, plus we have magic as an option here. The overall food availability is good but the spoilage rate is quick for quality-1 foods. I don't think we've made or seen a quality-2 food yet. Re: jumpy npcs I'm guessing someone told you about this. We have one that's just continuously jumping 120 feet in the air in one place, even when we reload.

We should have more thoughts on the food spoilage after tonight. If there's anything else you want us to keep an eye on and talk about, lmk soon if you see this.

We are into the Mods.26 / Readme 2022June08 version. Everything is looking good. We're interested to see how the food spoilage changes our lives. We're wondering if skills like Run And Gun are now integrated with items like the new crossbows and guns. We saw the note about Flurry of Blows being integrated with the Smite Thee Down weapons, but does it also affect the baton-replacement Firefly Staff?

My offer still stands to help rewrite the main description/webpage if you decide to get into that. I don't think it's in bad shape, but if you want to improve it a bit here and there and you'd like my help I will make the time. I may not be free any given day, but if we can do this across a week or something, I'm in.

I'm a little confused about a few things. 1) Is there a stable with the main quest line in it yet? If not, I assume that our version with a Readme of 2022June04 is too early to have the main quest. 2) If there is a stable with the main quest line in it, does the pre-gen map also include the main quest? 3) If not, should we expect a stable mod + map within a few days, or will it be longer than that?

We removed the vanilla POI folder, so I guess we had an error of some sort. It might be possible that reading the 2 quests in our starter inventory knocked out the intro quest. I generated a second map, we were able to complete the starter quest and find the first trader, and the map has the Friendly Jousting Arena. We haven't noticed any problems through day 2. Is it pretty safe to say that we should have the main quest ready for us if our version is Mods.24 from the mod db? Our readme is 2022June04 I think where I got confused on all of this is that the wording sounded like you were past developmental on the version that includes the main quest, and that post neither said developmental nor stable, IIRC. I may not RC, IDK. We generated a map with Mods.24 which has a readme of 2022June04

If we start over with version 24 and a rwg map, will this generate the main quest line? I'm a little confused by you saying 'github' but not the version number and not knowing if you're saying a stable version can generate the main quest or not. I'm going to try to test this now, but if you have a minute to clarify today, we would appreciate it! EDIT: also we generated a map and we're getting the 'trader not found' message after we finish the intro quest.

We would like to update from the 30 May version to the newest version to fix the crossbow bolt thing. I think the download was called mods.22.zip and our map is NMM 1.4 Are we 99% safe to update the mod (not the map) to the current version?? Also I should give the note that as an archery player, I think the archery bow in current NMM is overpowered due to the projectile velocity being too good.

Is this the big update such that it might make sense for us to restart? @everyone if you're looking for the SCore lockpicking mod, it's been said that it's already integrated into v.22 I believe that the newest map is 1.4 which is listed here alongside the newest version: https://7daystodiemods.com/not-medieval-mod-a-fantasy-modpack/ Cheers, BasicallyACat

Hey I just wanted to comment on this part. During the mid-May version of NMM (unsure of version number), both the trigger range and the attack range of those ranged NPCs was well beyond the POI we think they were coming from. We also think that the problem is gone with the update just before this one. Sorry I can't give more specific details than that. Would you point me to the exact document/webpage that has the current best intro/FAQ/description of the mod? I'm asking so that I don't start from an out-of-date version. From there what I would do is suggest a new format (if applicable) here or via PM. And then after your feedback on that I would try a rewrite/edit, and we'll see if you dig it.

Awesome, thanks. I think the only questions we have left (whether I asked it above or not) is what skill buffs the new crossbows, and whether or not things like Flurry of Blows affect the new one-handed weapons.

Hey, I'm multi-quoting just so you both see it. We have some feeback, though for an alpha version of the mod we're generally happy. As best as I can I'm going to skip commenting on anything we know that you're already looking at (like bows and what to do with T3). If I could only recommend one thing: Overall, a better intro document will help new players tune in to the alpha and not experience frustration even though it's a work in progress. Then in turn, when you have more players you will get more feedback and word of mouth, plus whatever diabolical plans for fame and fortune you have from this mod will have a better chance of succeeding. We're particularly recommending that you state clearly and early something about the skills that don't mean much right now (the base-game weapons skills that apply to nothing or to very little now, such that they're a bad use of skill points). Similarly with items that we might expect but don't exist yet (certain tiers of weapons or armor), we'd suggest you state that early and clearly. This is less an issue with the alpha than an issue with disseminating the most important information first and/or in summary form. We are jonesing for shields to be a thing you can wield. We know that the base game may be giving you obstacles there. After we updated we had a funny incident with regular zombies from vanilla 7dtd spawning in on a dig mission, IIRC. It took longer that you might guess to get how there are two categories of crossbow and bolts. We thought things were just flat-out broken. Early game like day 1 might need to chill out a bit with the enemies. Ideally you shouldn't be able to be shot on day 1 because that's like half of your health in one hit. Currently getting repeated trade routes quests to the same place (the traders way up the mountain) Also there is a mine off in the bushes at the top of that POI that killed me and I'm wondering if that's by design because it made no sense. Strength is a really high-priority skill tree, maybe too much so. We have two STR characters and one not, so I hope the other things like Agility:bows and Perception:explosives skills are working properly, because I think we're going to continue to have one character lean away from STR and I hope that pays off reasonably. Getting shot from outside of one of the POIs (I think it's a castle) and losing like half health with each hit on day one is maybe a little much, though it did lead to angry laughter by all of us. The wandering mobs harrassment on our base on non-blood moon days/nights is probably too low. Like most games, the NPC hires do hilariously annoying things all the time. EDIT: clearly elven armor is T3 light armor, and dwarven armor is T3 heavy. Come on bro. ;] EDIT: the POI on a mountain with all the traders is both great and needs some changes: it shouldn't be possible to be the starting quest trader POI because that's going to frustrate newer players or weaker players; also with the newest map it has a buncha janky illusory blocks all over the place Two more questions: -are both categories of bow/crossbow (the vanilla and the mod-specific) buffed by the Agility:bows skill? -are there any other skills that do nothing or almost nothing right now? I could give my notes on the introductory "how this mod works" document on that you have up on webpages if you'd like. I am not bad at that sort of thing. Sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it and in what order you say it. Cheers