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The balance should at least be in a way that you don´t get endgame gear before demolishers show up. They do show up at gamestage 150, in A20 i got them at day 42 or 49 in SP i think. Before that you shouldn´t get Q6 of the highest tier as a trader reward. And you shouldn´t be able to craft a M60 or anything similar on day 7-9. That´s just badly balanced. I hope those things get fixed before the game goes gold.

@warmer Day 25? Seriously? You don´t even get a full horde night until 4am at this point. Or demolishers. And while i can reach T6 at day 25, i really don´t want to. That would be rushing for no reason tbh. Do you even get a lot of rads in your games? And actually this is his point. That the trader is currently designed for a too short playtrough. You can have engame gear way too early. Way before demolishers show up wich are supposed to be endgame enemies. That´s not a good balance.

@meganoth And what vanilla looks like is exactly the topic here, this isn´t about what the perk system could be, but about what it is and what would be best for the game. Even without elixir, the perk system still is the one that makes it easier to min/max if it hasn´t level restrictions.

You are again only judging from your situation. Ofc no one abuses the system on a private server. But there is a lot of public servers and given the balance for it, a surprisingly high amount of PvP going on. If TFP really wants to support PvP after launch, like they claimed several times, they shouldn´t rely on a system favoring min/maxing. That would become dull as everyone would do pretty much the same.

Well this game continues after starting a new game obviously. Weird that i have to point that out tbh... Also, hopping on cacti? You really wanna compare that to fergetting/learning elixir? Do you have any idea how many cacti you needed to hop on to get a significant raise in your skill? Besides that armor shouldn´t be an action skill (and isn´t in DF). That was a thing in TFP´s LBD wich was a very faulty system. That´s like taking a chromebook as reference for gaming PC`s. But this isn´t about personal taste here but about what is good for the game. A game focusing heavily on MP (technically it doesn´t even have SP, just an MP mode with one player) should not be based on a system that highly rewards min/maxing.

Playing on survivalist/insane (depending wich mod or mods) i very much welcome fire arrows/bolts to soften them up from a distance. Sneak shots aren´t guaranteed to kill on those difficulties even when perked. Fire does some decent damage over time and doesn´t generate as much heat as an explosive arrow and doesn´t wake up the whole room. Explosive ones are more fun though, especially since we now have body parts flying around.

Getting good at something as fast as possible is the whole purpose of min/maxing. And what could be faster than clicking on a perk 5 times? The whole perk system, considering the existence of learning/fergettin elixir, basically is min/maxing. You can totally switch around your character in a matter of minutes. You can go full strenght to go mining and then switch back to full specc into another attribute for hordenight. So yeah, if you prefer that you prefer a system that basically is the essence of min/maxing. If you abuse those possibilities or not is a different story though. @meganoth The perk/magazine system is good for people who want to min/max and/or want the easy way of "learning" something. The LBD with perks and level restrictions is good for people who want a steady progression where decisions have consequences that can´t be undone easily and getting skilled does resemble a learning experience (The fact that crafting and such is still a point system is to avoid abuse like we had in earlier alphas, like sitting in the forge watching arrowheads beeing made, no system is perfect). LBD is definitive more immersive aswell.

I don´t see the need to merge both systems. It would be absolutly fine for me to get rid of magazines and only have the DF method. Also In DF you do find quite the books to up your skills. Switching weapons isn´t really a problem. And he kept his old system. No magazines. And lacking? It´s the way more realistic approach. In vanilla i can become a pistol expert in one minute by clicking a few times on a perk in a menu. Meh. But as you seeem to like min/max that´s the way to go i guess. I forgot to tag @Roland in my post, the 2 last paragraphs weren´t directed at you.

You can easily have both. LBD with perks and level restrictions. Try and play a bit of Darkness Falls. It´s a really good progression. Unless you like min/max a lot, that doesn´t happen due to level caps. Also magazines plus fergettin elixir are a way to get what you want really fast. It´s not an argument that people only want fast progression. The current system allows that aswell as the old one. Just in an even more weird way of doing it. So no, the reasons a lot of people don´t like magazines is not that they can´t progress fast anymore. And if TFP wanted to prevent too fast progression they shouldn´t have made the fergetting elixir that cheap and shouldn´t have put learning elixir in every vending machine.

I would even bet money that someone on the steam forums will mention that in the future. That´s why i don´t understand when devs even give out vague time frames. It always ends bad if there is just the slightest delay. Even just a day will trigger at least one idiot.

That´s actually just semantics here, i didn´t misread, i just didn´t go into detail, because if you nowadays are surprised if people mistake a estimated guess for a fact, you have been sleeping under a rock for a long time tbh. Or you are new to the internet. I assume both isn´t true for mad mole.

Serious question? I mean you put points in the perk prior to A21.

In the last SP playtrough it was shotgun shells and 9mm for Turrets at the horde base. Ammo for the magnum got scraped to brass, Playing MP we simply use different weapons so every type is getting used.

And how exactly do you get water if you spend most of the time building? It needs a lot of looting to be able to buy enough filters to not having to worry about water anymore. It takes a lot of dew collectors if you only wanna rely on them. And yes you have to go looting for that or otherwise you won´t get any water. You will also struggle on hordenights if you spend the majority of the time building as you will be stuck with low level stone gear. And building without good tools? Nope. Need to go looting for that. And praying to RNGesus that it doesn´t take you too long to get enough magazines so you can mine properly, get a nailgun and defend yourself on hordenight and vs screamers. Oh and not to forget farming. And cooking. Beeing able to craft first aid items. That all needs looting. It doesn´t matter what you wanna do. It always involves a lot of looting. One of the worst things with magazines are quests wich you need to do as builder to be able to concentrate on building faster. You nearly found enough magazines after stopping at every mailbox to make that steel armor and then you get the set as a reward. Meh. Thanks for nothing. And i am the one beeing riddiculous here. Sure. You can´t say i don´t loot a lot in the first two weeks. It´s impossible. TFP should have focused more on making the other biomes a must. They are basically useless. Also they wouldn´t need to force us into POI looting that much if the survival part would be actually worth beeing called survival. At thist point it only still exists so they can all it survival.

That alone isn´t a problem on it´s own. But after building up a playerbase and than completly turn over to a loot shooter is a problem. Now if they would have communicated that from the beginning that also wouldn´t be a problem. But letting people play for nearly 10 years and than deceiding to turn the game into a loot shooter basically over night is just bad. And yes, i know the legal terms of early access and what it means and that i only have the right to the version at the time of buying. But just because you can, doesn´t autimatically mean you should. A behaviour like that is yet another reason why more and more people dislike early access. (Not blaming TFP for everything here, just saying the add another reason) They propably won´t go into early access with their next title, but if they do, i am surely not gonna touch it before beta or release.

With community you mean gamers in general. It´s not that this is a new behaviour from the gaming crowd that is exclusive to 7 days to die. If you make a deadline and can´t meet it people get upset. Does this really surprise anyone? That´s a normal behaviour even when not talking about games or software. I am well aware that it is very hard to estimate when a game or a feature of a game is done, but knowing that, why even give an estimate? People getting angry about a deadline that isn´t met, was a thing before the internet and video games already...

Well the fact that you need to rationalize it to make sense, does speak for itself imo. @meilodasreh Yeah, bookstores become the number one target for looting, double dipping is the norm. Crowded Public Servers must be a nightmare i imagine. It´s all about finding magazines fast enough to not fall behind the gamestage.

Yeah punishing builds that don´t specialize is a big minus. Like this game needed more optiona to min/max....

But they literally do represent skill progression. The more magazines you read the more you progress in a skill. For limiting the player in terms of progression speed there are better ways. Like level caps. You can´t find a way around that. Magazines can be worked around. Level one skill like crazy get all the magazines in 3 days, buy fergetting elixir, rinse and repeat with other skills.

Recipes aren´t crafting skills. There is a difference. And yes, recipes should be unlocked by perks aswell. But still, crafting skills and recipes are two different things. @Kalen Yeah i know the opinion from TFP on LBD. I never wanted it back from TFP anyways. They would never introduce level caps and that is very necessary. Look at Darkness Falls. It has a LBD system with perks for crafting skills and things like iron gut and such. Spam crafting doesn´t do anything for your crafting skill at all, the LBD part is only for action skills, like scavenging, atlethics and using a weapon/tool. Crafting skills are bought with skill points. The only thing you can spam is maybe atlethics in the first few nights. And you have level restrictions so you can´t rush any crafting skill or other perk. It´s a steady, well flowing progression. Recipes do exist, but you can unlock everything with perks.

I have now played enough with the new magazine system to be sure, that i will avoid it at every cost. Until there is a standalone mod that either brings back A20 system or introduces a good LBD with perks and level restrictions, i will only play overhauls that do not use the magazine system. RNG for skills shouldn´t be a thing. There is a good reason basically no other games do have RNG when it comes to skills. That´s a typical case of "Just because you are unique, doesn´t mean you are usefull" A good LBD system, with perks and level restrictions so that you can´t max out anything too fast, seems like a good option again since A21 hit.

@Diragor The lantern (doesn´t need power) and every electrical light are safe to use. Just be aware that dewcollectors also produce heat.

Not really. As you must loot and quest a lot, because you will otherwise don´t get any books and water, you have more than enough money to buy it from the traders. And also wrenching cars. With the minibike we don´t even need to go in the desert in MP Coop if we don´t want to. 3 traders within 1.5km, about 8k gas every 3 days to buy from each. More than enough. And as you don´t need to leave the forest there is no reason for other vehicles.

@RipClaw Well it´s a progression ofc. There is no need to move, once you have a minibike you can simply just get what you need or want from other biomes. Make a little outpost in each so you can stay there for 2 or 3 days maybe. I am not talking about having to live there. But right now you don´t even have to go there once at all if you don´t want to. And exactly that was the reason they removed the plains and burnt forest biome. They weren´t necessary. Now snow and wasteland at least do offer a challenge. The desert not so much, only if you go there right at start. Temperature is a non issue tbh. Most annoying thing is the icon in the bottom left corner.

@KrougalOMG imagine people are trying to make a point with an example and imagine not wanting the game to change in every aspect anymore after nearly 10 years of playing it. Also this is not gonna happen anyways. Look how the game developed trough the last alphas. It got easier and easier. With all the first aid, gas to buy at the trader you now don´t even have to leave the forest anymore at all. This change would mean a step in the opposite direction.