A feature we can all get behind... Choice

[Skeeter63082]

I stated exactly what testing would be needed: checking that variables are updated. Thats ALL the testing needed with more options, making surr they do as advertised.

 

And yeah its my opinon that a17 has been a complete waste, nothing added has made the game more fun for me, infact just the opposite everything has made the game less fun.

- new AI is horrible

- new skill system is horrible

- vehicles: why did we need more of these? They all do the exact same thing (which is mostly just justify giving the player terrible move speed and stamina)

-temporary buffs are worthless (not in a balance sense, in a 'they add nothing to the game senae')

-new POIs are probably the single worst addition in 7days history (which is pretty impressive consisering the long list of 'screw your playstyle' choices the developers have made)

Am i missing any other 'features' of a17?

 

My turn! Let's just start from the beginning.

 

- new AI is horrible - No it's not. Zeds now actually calculate the most efficient route to find you, bypassing doors, traps, etc and targetting weaker areas over where you might have designed for them to go. Learn to base build with this in mind. If you can't outsmart them, it's not the dev's fault. They added challenge. Rise to it or go play another game.

 

- new skill system is horrible - This is debateable. It's a bit constricting at first, and really only at first, but it's far more organized and easy to manage than the old system. You don't have to sit there for 10 minutes scratching your head trying to decide which of the nearly hundred places you should put a few skill points. Chances are when you get that next level, you know right where it's going and chances also are that it's going to give you a really nice benefit. Either learn to work with the new system or go play another game.

 

- vehicles: why did we need more of these? They all do the exact same thing (which is mostly just justify giving the player terrible move speed and stamina) - Variety is the spice of life. I personally love the motorcycle for quick runs and general transportation and also love the 4X4 for multiplayer and long looting runs. Also, the gyrocopter is fun for scouting from above to find traders, specific POIs, new towns, etc. Even the bicycle has a great place giving you a reasonable conveyance early on which beats the hell out of running everywhere. If you don't like the new variety, go play another game.

 

-temporary buffs are worthless (not in a balance sense, in a 'they add nothing to the game senae') - Hey, they're there. You don't have to use them. I've found a few I like to keep in stock for certain things, but worst case scenario, they make pretty damn decent trader fodder, and considering there are so many different ones, you can likely offload a whole crapload on a single trader for a nice profit. If the temp buffs are bothering you, then go play another game.

 

-new POIs are probably the single worst addition in 7days history (which is pretty impressive consisering the long list of 'screw your playstyle' choices the developers have made) - I had to stop for a second and decide whether you were trolling or not. the new dungeon POIs are AMAZING. Find the path through, circumvent and avoid traps and pitfalls, kill zombies around every corner, loot like crazy to the top, and once you reach the end, get a very lucrative reward in the form of guns, ammo, healing supplies, building materials, good food, etc etc etc. I think you might just be hating on TFP. If it gets you that upset, then go play another game.

Am i missing any other 'features' of a17? - Apparently you pretty much missed them all. That's fine. A17 just isn't for you. We're not going to miss you, so feel free to go play another game.

[Skeeter63082]

Not this ♥♥♥♥ again. I have a full in depth understanding of development methodologies. THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU DO IN ALPHA PHASES OF DEVELOPMENT. alpha is the phase where core features are added... all this time spent balancing (this is what beta phase of developement is for) is just more time that should be going to actually bringing all the features online and working.

 

This is the reason we have been in alpha for 5 years.

 

So can we stop using the 'alpha/experimental' defense now? Its not a valid defense when TFP are following no actual development plan beyond what they think of the alpha before.

 

Maybe your game company does things differently (I'm assuming you must own or work for a game company to come off as such an authority how how things ARE and ARE NOT done in this industry) and that's fine. TFP are doing things their way, and get this, their fan base is still playing and having fun. How about that? Sure, there are complaints and suggestions, but at least TFP seems to have somewhat of a sense of where we want the game to go as a fan base. Just because a few outliers want to complain doesn't mean they have to change their way of doing things.

[WolfyBlah]

Apparently it is what they think 'alpha/experimental' should be and no amount of cursing or yelling at me will change it lol.

 

I'll reiterate - The solution to your problem is really simple. Don't like it? Don't play it. See how easy that is?

 

Oh, and relax, breathe, have a snickers bar or something. Life is to short to spend so much negative energy on a "game"

 

Telling me to not play the game helps litteraly nobody. Its Like going 'that green coat you bought last christmas... well i cut it up and dyed it into a pink tan top, just dont wear it if you dont like it'.

 

And as far as negative energy... whatever, you see negative energy and insults and i see feedback and somone who has been with the game for years and followed development closely and is unhappy with the removal of options and the dumbing down of the game for consoles.

[SnowDog1942]

Its Like going 'that green coat you bought last christmas... well i cut it up and dyed it into a pink tan top, just dont wear it if you dont like it'.

.

 

Not even close. In this case you got a pink coat IN ADDITION to your green coat. So if u dont like pink feel free to keep wearing your green A16.4 coat. Use either, both, or none of them, its up to you

[WolfyBlah]

Maybe your game company does things differently (I'm assuming you must own or work for a game company to come off as such an authority how how things ARE and ARE NOT done in this industry) and that's fine. TFP are doing things their way, and get this, their fan base is still playing and having fun. How about that? Sure, there are complaints and suggestions, but at least TFP seems to have somewhat of a sense of where we want the game to go as a fan base. Just because a few outliers want to complain doesn't mean they have to change their way of doing things.

 

The thing is unlike some people im not asking for things to be changed to suit my wishes, im asking for more options so the game is a better product that serves more players. More options benifits all of us.

 

As far as the fanbase still playing amd having fun... ehh, as with any other game development some people will fanboy like crazy and defend even the most stupid decsions, wouldnt be suprised if TFP removed all zombies from the game there would still be those people defending them.

[Skeeter63082]

The thing is unlike some people im not asking for things to be changed to suit my wishes, im asking for more options so the game is a better product that serves more players. More options benifits all of us.

 

As far as the fanbase still playing amd having fun... ehh, as with any other game development some people will fanboy like crazy and defend even the most stupid decsions, wouldnt be suprised if TFP removed all zombies from the game there would still be those people defending them.

 

You're missing the point completely. It's THEIR game. Not yours. You don't own any part of it. You have a license that grants you the priviledge to play it. Your ownership of the game ends right about where your internet connection begins. What you have on your system is as close to owning any part of it as you will ever get. End of story.

 

That being said, you have a right to an opinion. We have a right to rebut that opinion if we feel it is flawed, misguided, or misinformed. That does not make us fanbois. It makes us people who play the game and are able to form our own opinions, valid or otherwise. Honestly, the problem people are having with your comments aren't the content, because there are plenty of constructive posts on these forums voicing exactly what you are complaining about, but are doing so in a way that encourages positive and contructive discussion. It's the way you come off in your posts that essentially mark you as either a forum troll or just someone who likes to scream at people through a keyboard. Either way it's going to get you negative responses.

[crazyduck]

I feel the pain of things that we 'lost' in previous Alphas that are never coming back and can't bring back without DLL modding. I know it. But, that's part of early access and alpha games. There is going to be a lot of just trying things out - adding in mechanics and content throwing it out there and seeing what works and what doesn't. A lot of times - it will grip you and you will like it - but the devs don't so they try something else. It sucks but that's how it is.

 

I can also think of many things I loved that they took away. A lot of them I was in the minority in. I liked the forge molds for example. I think most hated them. I liked that each animal had different meat instead of just "Raw Meat" - I liked the more complex crafting that had multiple steps (#stickgate) - i liked the infinite random worlds we used to have -- they have changed lots and removed lots - BUT - they have also added lots.

 

Part of alpha games is sometimes getting attached to a feature a dev just tries out and decides it doesn't fit their vision. You might of loved it - but it's their baby - not ours.

 

Funny the Stuff you say you liked is most of the stuff i liked too . And the Problem i have is really not stuff is changing or Features are added or removed for testing.

Problem i have is this.

Take Molds as example. They worked without issues only ting i missed with molds was some sort of Max usage time per Mold so it breaks after some time. They removed the Molds , the Forges look same as before but somewhere magically Keep Tons of molten Iron, Lead, Glass. not really something i like to see in a Survival game thats somethign for a FPS game wiht some sort of crafting addon.

Same with Meat from Animals, same with Resources like Logs to Plank to Stick or insane Stacksizes or this now added faked Encumberance system.

 

So yes they added much true but there is not really a reason why they had to remove Meat types different Food Types, Molds, Gun Parts , more realistic Stacksizes and such stuff. It was removed cause someone thought "hej lets make this game more easy mode" . It can be done sure but then there should be a way to undo it also if the only Way is to modify most of the Files but also this is not possibel cause looks like Pimps love not to only change Game Mechanics but also make it impossible to change it back .

[crazyduck]

You're missing the point completely. It's THEIR game. Not yours. You don't own any part of it. You have a license that grants you the priviledge to play it. Your ownership of the game ends right about where your internet connection begins. What you have on your system is as close to owning any part of it as you will ever get. End of story.

 

That being said, you have a right to an opinion. We have a right to rebut that opinion if we feel it is flawed, misguided, or misinformed. That does not make us fanbois. It makes us people who play the game and are able to form our own opinions, valid or otherwise. Honestly, the problem people are having with your comments aren't the content, because there are plenty of constructive posts on these forums voicing exactly what you are complaining about, but are doing so in a way that encourages positive and contructive discussion. It's the way you come off in your posts that essentially mark you as either a forum troll or just someone who likes to scream at people through a keyboard. Either way it's going to get you negative responses.

 

The Fanboy thing he said is true. I see it in so many Games, MMO and also Multiplayer Games like 7days. There are always People around writing somethign in every Thread with a Compain or a negative Review telling the People how great everything is how fantastic everyhign is and if they dont like it they should stop playing.

 

 

And yes he is also right with his Zombie removal . also 100% sure if Pimps remove all Zombies and replace them with Animals or Ghosts there would still be enough People defending that telling others its still survival and there was never said it contain Zombies.

[WolfyBlah]

You're missing the point completely. It's THEIR game. Not yours. You don't own any part of it. You have a license that grants you the priviledge to play it. Your ownership of the game ends right about where your internet connection begins. What you have on your system is as close to owning any part of it as you will ever get. End of story.

 

That being said, you have a right to an opinion. We have a right to rebut that opinion if we feel it is flawed, misguided, or misinformed. That does not make us fanbois. It makes us people who play the game and are able to form our own opinions, valid or otherwise. Honestly, the problem people are having with your comments aren't the content, because there are plenty of constructive posts on these forums voicing exactly what you are complaining about, but are doing so in a way that encourages positive and contructive discussion. It's the way you come off in your posts that essentially mark you as either a forum troll or just someone who likes to scream at people through a keyboard. Either way it's going to get you negative responses.

 

If using swear words (im a damn adult and this game isnt child friendly) makes me a troll then i guess i am.

I never claimed to own the games development or anything lose to that so no idea where you have pulled that idea from.

 

I dont see how my posts are any less encourageing to discussion than anyone elses just because of a few bad words but whetever. And i have put forth several suggestions for improvments or alternative ways things could be implemented.

[WolfyBlah]

Not even close. In this case you got a pink coat IN ADDITION to your green coat. So if u dont like pink feel free to keep wearing your green A16.4 coat. Use either, both, or none of them, its up to you

 

Except for the fact that a16.4 (all earlier alphas) is never going through the rest of the development process (bug fixing, optimisation, QOL)

 

So yeah your choice is basicly a unfinished half a green coat that will never get finished, vs pink tank top that will *eventually* be a full finished product (probably not given development practises).

[Skeeter63082]

If using swear words (im a damn adult and this game isnt child friendly) makes me a troll then i guess i am.

I never claimed to own the games development or anything lose to that so no idea where you have pulled that idea from.

 

I dont see how my posts are any less encourageing to discussion than anyone elses just because of a few bad words but whetever. And i have put forth several suggestions for improvments or alternative ways things could be implemented.

 

It has nothing to do with profanity. I'm prior Navy. F*ck is a noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, adverb, preposition, conjunction, and interjection in my normal speach. It's your method of conveying your thoughs. You almost come off as a jaded ass when you complain, and that's all you have done from what I've seen. You haven't put forth any suggestions. All you did was call one feature after another "the single worst addition" or "horrible" without providing any alternative or suggestion for improvement. I don't see how you can view this as encouraging in any way. You almost seem to have it out for TFP in a way that screams some form of entitlement. THAT is what people have a problem with and why you have been blasted on this thread the way you have. Hope that clears it up.

[Reth]

Players love to ask for more options because obviously it would be so easy to add.

 

So what if every option makes the code 5% more complex?

Adding 40 more options only makes the whole 703% as complex and cumbersome to work with and that's not counting the time to constantly test all permutations. What could possibly go wrong?

 

As the OP mentioned, we already have access to XML config files. Those of us who feel comfortable doing so, already tweak all the options to our liking. But I doubt many do that. Allowing us to change config settings via in-game interface would make the whole process more accessible to the non software-savvy crowd.

 

More over, you can use it to gather statistics on which settings are favored and which aren't so you can later "prepackage" options into sets. This can be your ultimate testing vehicle.

[Skeeter63082]

As the OP mentioned, we already have access to XML config files. Those of us who feel comfortable doing so, already tweak all the options to our liking. But I doubt many do that. Allowing us to change config settings via in-game interface would make the whole process more accessible to the non software-savvy crowd.

 

More over, you can use it to gather statistics on which settings are favored and which aren't so you can later "prepackage" options into sets. This can be your ultimate testing vehicle.

 

Now this isn't a bad idea. And also I noted before that the code bloat from doing something like this would be minimal because all you'd be doing is adding on to the front side of the interface, and not so much altering the XML config code. Honestly, if doing this added more than a couple megs to the total file size, I would be highly shocked.

[SnowDog1942]

Except for the fact that a16.4 (all earlier alphas) is never going through the rest of the development process (bug fixing, optimisation, QOL)

 

So yeah your choice is basicly a unfinished half a green coat that will never get finished, vs pink tank top that will *eventually* be a full finished product (probably not given development practises).

 

When u buy an early access green coat you are buying for its current state with no promise of future improvements. In this case you are in luck, because you apparently dont want those improvements.

[ricp]

I dont see how my posts are any less encourageing to discussion than anyone elses just because of a few bad words but whetever.

 

I don't mind swearing, I'm a Scot after all - our language is held together by a selection of swear words.

 

If you want an answer as to why I (and this is subjective, of course) think your posts are not encouraging discussion is that you use absolutist terms and phrases. Claiming this or that is broken, that the devs have been wasting time, and the like. Yes we all have opinions but I've said on this site before you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

 

You can say the AI is not perfect, because it's not, instead your deride it completely without referencing the improvements made. It seems it's either got to be 100% for you or it's a complete failure.

 

I'm not trying to have a go at you, I'm just answering your question.

[WolfyBlah]

It has nothing to do with profanity. I'm prior Navy. F*ck is a noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, adverb, preposition, conjunction, and interjection in my normal speach. It's your method of conveying your thoughs. You almost come off as a jaded ass when you complain, and that's all you have done from what I've seen. You haven't put forth any suggestions. All you did was call one feature after another "the single worst addition" or "horrible" without providing any alternative or suggestion for improvement. I don't see how you can view this as encouraging in any way. You almost seem to have it out for TtataFP in a way that screams some form of entitlement. THAT is what people have a problem with and why you have been blasted on this thread the way you have. Hope that clears it up.

 

You are damn right im jadded, TFP have consistently removed and reworked things and every alpha makes the game slower and more tedious... do you really expect anything other than a jadded attitude?

 

I do not 'have it in' for TFP, just because i dont feel the need to add the ' you guys did such a great job omg1!1!'.

 

Do i have issues with specifc sff members who have in the past been rude and disrespectful? Absolutely.

[WolfyBlah]

When u buy an early access green coat you are buying for its current state with no promise of future improvements. In this case you are in luck, because you apparently dont want those improvements.

 

You are misunderstanding. Its not that i dont want improvements, its that things that are being added are not improvments and are in fact downgrades (opinon).

[Skeeter63082]

You are damn right im jadded, TFP have consistently removed and reworked things and every alpha makes the game slower and more tedious... do you really expect anything other than a jadded attitude?

 

I do not 'have it in' for TFP, just because i dont feel the need to add the ' you guys did such a great job omg1!1!'.

 

Do i have issues with specifc sff members who have in the past been rude and disrespectful? Absolutely.

 

And you feel that getting on here and complaining in this manner will accomplish something? You have got to remember that this game is being developed by a crew that is probably 1/10th the size of any big name game developer out there and probably started from Joel sitting in a garage somewhere blazing up and saying "You know...I love Minecraft, but I wish it was more realistic looking and had like more dangerous zombies and ♥♥♥♥." This game didn't start off with a multi-million dollar budget and a planning crew. It started with a guy and some friends making a game they loved and knew everyone else would love. Then they have to deal with people complaining about every single detail, and in an effort to appease even the unapeasable, they make changes that only cause these people to complain more. People like YOU are the reason these "bad" changes get made. They are the direct result of people complaining about a specific mechanic to the point to where they just dumb it down to the most vanilla crap they can chug out just to please those who lack imagination and desire to overcome actual challanges, but instead perfer to have everything handed to them on a silver platter. I could be wrong, but this sounds EXACTLY like what you are doing. How about this: If you don't like A17, then go save a copy of A16.4 to a separate part of your hard drive so you can continue to play it without it being overwritten by A17 and then wait to see if A18 meets your standards. Problem solved.

[WolfyBlah]

I don't mind swearing, I'm a Scot after all - our language is held together by a selection of swear words.

 

If you want an answer as to why I (and this is subjective, of course) think your posts are not encouraging discussion is that you use absolutist terms and phrases. Claiming this or that is broken, that the devs have been wasting time, and the like. Yes we all have opinions but I've said on this site before you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

 

You can say the AI is not perfect, because it's not, instead your deride it completely without referencing the improvements made. It seems it's either got to be 100% for you or it's a complete failure.

 

I'm not trying to have a go at you, I'm just answering your question.

 

I could list everything i view as wrong or worse in the new AI but to be honest whats the point? As people have pointed out TFP will do whatever they damn well please (thier project/perogative). That and its a topic that could do with its own thread are why i didnt expand upon my points.

 

To give a quick overview:

I dont like the new AI because...

they are not zombies anymore, the threat of zombies is supposed to be in thier endless numbers, not hyper intelligence and a degree in architecture. (They even know what the inside of a structure looks like... where they sat watching me build it and then passed around instructions and blueprints to every other zombie?)

 

At this point i dont even see the purpose of the base defense blocks (spikes (the ♥♥♥♥ ones that are all we are allowed now), barbed wire, ect) if the enemies are just going to path around them... that reduces base building to just be exploting the AI.

 

Then theres the jumping... they jump too high (players and enemies outside of specials should have the same jump height) and too often (sometimes for no apparent reason at all)... that and the jumping zombies looks bloody awful but thats an issue with thier animation rather than AI.

[Skeeter63082]

I could list everything i view as wrong or worse in the new AI but to be honest whats the point? As people have pointed out TFP will do whatever they damn well please (thier project/perogative). That and its a topic that could do with its own thread are why i didnt expand upon my points.

 

To give a quick overview:

I dont like the new AI because...

they are not zombies anymore, the threat of zombies is supposed to be in thier endless numbers, not hyper intelligence and a degree in architecture. (They even know what the inside of a structure looks like... where they sat watching me build it and then passed around instructions and blueprints to every other zombie?)

 

At this point i dont even see the purpose of the base defense blocks (spikes (the ♥♥♥♥ ones that are all we are allowed now), barbed wire, ect) if the enemies are just going to path around them... that reduces base building to just be exploting the AI.

 

Then theres the jumping... they jump too high (players and enemies outside of specials should have the same jump height) and too often (sometimes for no apparent reason at all)... that and the jumping zombies looks bloody awful but thats an issue with thier animation rather than AI.

 

Ok, take a step outside what you believe for just a second. Let's get creative and build a pseuo-narrative to explain why zombies can do this. Perhaps the zombies in this game aren't really undead like the George Romero variety, but instead are more like the Alex Garland variety you might find in 28 Days Later. They aren't dead, but they aren't right either. They still display a reasonable sense of intelligence above just basic feeding instincts. They can do problem solving, they understand basic structural architecture like most of us do, and perhaps what they are infected with gives them a touch of superhuman physical capabilities. I mean considering that this game has next to no back story, would it really be a stretch to consider this as potential canon?

 

Also what you call "exploiting the AI" can also be considered outsmarting your enemy. It's a basic tactic for any combat situation. Diversion, distraction, funnelling into choke points, etc are all things that are taught in any special combat school, so it would make sense that those sort of things could be employed to on some scale here. Just something to consider.

[WolfyBlah]

And you feel that getting on here and complaining in this manner will accomplish something? You have got to remember that this game is being developed by a crew that is probably 1/10th the size of any big name game developer out there and probably started from Joel sitting in a garage somewhere blazing up and saying "You know...I love Minecraft, but I wish it was more realistic looking and had like more dangerous zombies and ♥♥♥♥." This game didn't start off with a multi-million dollar budget and a planning crew. It started with a guy and some friends making a game they loved and knew everyone else would love. Then they have to deal with people complaining about every single detail, and in an effort to appease even the unapeasable, they make changes that only cause these people to complain more. People like YOU are the reason these "bad" changes get made. They are the direct result of people complaining about a specific mechanic to the point to where they just dumb it down to the most vanilla crap they can chug out just to please those who lack imagination and desire to overcome actual challanges, but instead perfer to have everything handed to them on a silver platter. I could be wrong, but this sounds EXACTLY like what you are doing. How about this: If you don't like A17, then go save a copy of A16.4 to a separate part of your hard drive so you can continue to play it without it being overwritten by A17 and then wait to see if A18 meets your standards. Problem solved.

 

A18 i will not even be bothering to play more than likely, its pretty clear that whatever 'direction' TFP are following is not one im going to enjoy (grindig XP and playing a fallout knockoff leveling system is not somthing im ever going to enjoy).

 

I already did backup a16.4 to an ext HDD but to be honest sticking with an old alpha thats never going to develop further... may as well just give up on the game at this point and lump it in with those early acess projects that were never finished and abandoned.

 

So you are blaming me for a bunch of changes to the game (resources and crafting being dumbed down) that im specifically here to say im against? Wut?

 

 

 

Iv alreadly stated i dont expect the same level of competence from TFP as a AAA developer so im unsure where you are drawing that conclusion from.

 

I personally hope people never stop complainig about features getting removed/changed for the worse, if nobody ever complains about everything then it must all be perfect.

Granted we have both said this is pointless becuase TFP will do whatever anyway, but since that is the ONLY thing anyone can do about these changes... no other recourse other than to point out what we dont like and hope TFP take it into consideration.

[meganoth]

They could simply keep the old Code and Functions and let the User or Modder decide if he want to use the new Skill system or the old System

 

I highly doubt that. In some cases this may actually be feasable, but if you don't adapt the old code appropriatly to new interfaces you will get something that will not even compile let alone work without crashing all the time. The real cost is keeping that old code up to date for a long time, ask Microsoft how much backwards compatibility costs them.

[ricp]

I could list everything i view as wrong or worse in the new AI but to be honest whats the point? As people have pointed out TFP will do whatever they damn well please (thier project/perogative). That and its a topic that could do with its own thread are why i didnt expand upon my points.

 

It's not a case that you didn't expand you chose absolutist rhetoric that doesn't reflect the gameplay. You immediately put yourself at odds with the people who created it, increasing the likeliness that your opinions will be considered extreme and thus ignored.

 

they are not zombies anymore

 

* facepalm * .. seriously? Come on, the cannon on zombies is both wide and varied from shuffling idiots to clever speedy rage filled b*stards from 28 Days Later. Where do you get this very defined idea of what is and isn't a "zombie"?

 

the threat of zombies is supposed to be in thier endless numbers, not hyper intelligence and a degree in architecture. (They even know what the inside of a structure looks like... where they sat watching me build it and then passed around instructions and blueprints to every other zombie?)

 

Now I sort of have some sympathy here and I've discussed it before on the forum. In this example you are standing on a roof, visible to zombies but the path to you is not. Ideally the AI should get into the building then do paths through it, turning back or attacking a block when their path is blocked. They should repeat this until they find you. It's a bit immersion breaking to assume that zombies have the entire building blueprint available allowing them to find the most direct route.

 

There is however a flip side to that. That sort of AI will tie up the CPU. It is much more efficient to rely on the navmesh within Unity and set the zombie on it's way. Needing to stop at each turn and implement a "logic decision" is certainly the ideal but you have to make a trade off with this.

 

 

At this point i dont even see the purpose of the base defense blocks (spikes (the ♥♥♥♥ ones that are all we are allowed now), barbed wire, ect) if the enemies are just going to path around them... that reduces base building to just be exploting the AI.

 

So don't allow a path, it's as simple as that. I've had no issues holding back 5th or 6th horde night with a game stage in over 100 with just some weapons and a mix of wood and iron spikes backed up by barbed wire. There are numerous streamers out there who have done the same.

 

Then theres the jumping... they jump too high (players and enemies outside of specials should have the same jump height) and too often (sometimes for no apparent reason at all)... that and the jumping zombies looks bloody awful but thats an issue with thier animation rather than AI.

 

Remember A16? Remember how the AI would just walk into something and stand there jumping, never getting over it, not causing any damage and doing nothing other than annoying you with it's grunts? That's why the zombies jump. In regard to the height, sure that could be tweaked, as for it looking awful that is once more a subjective opinion - one I don't share.

[Skeeter63082]

A18 i will not even be bothering to play more than likely, its pretty clear that whatever 'direction' TFP are following is not one im going to enjoy (grindig XP and playing a fallout knockoff leveling system is not somthing im ever going to enjoy).

 

I already did backup a16.4 to an ext HDD but to be honest sticking with an old alpha thats never going to develop further... may as well just give up on the game at this point and lump it in with those early acess projects that were never finished and abandoned.

 

So you are blaming me for a bunch of changes to the game (resources and crafting being dumbed down) that im specifically here to say im against? Wut?

 

 

 

Iv alreadly stated i dont expect the same level of competence from TFP as a AAA developer so im unsure where you are drawing that conclusion from.

 

I personally hope people never stop complainig about features getting removed/changed for the worse, if nobody ever complains about everything then it must all be perfect.

Granted we have both said this is pointless becuase TFP will do whatever anyway, but since that is the ONLY thing anyone can do about these changes... no other recourse other than to point out what we dont like and hope TFP take it into consideration.

 

But that's where you're wrong. On several occasions I've seen TFP take forum discussions into consideration for further development. Even in A17, we've already seen changes based on the direction the forum discussions were leaning. This is why we have these discussions. They listen. Believe me, they listen. It might not seem like it at times, but I know for a fact they probably read about 75% of the forum posts to get the general consensus on various mechanics. I'm not saying to not talk about what you like and don't like. That is the fuel that drives this bus. What I'm saying is that just simply getting on here and calling things horrible and the worst aren't accomplishing anything except for inviting hostility. Yeah, some of those will be fanbois. I don't deny that. But most of us are legitimately trying to discuss improvements for the game and perhaps those discussions will have an effect on the direction of development. I have a simple rule, and it's not just for game forums, but for life in general. Don't complain unless you have a better way. Don't say "I don't like this" and not be able to follow it up with "and this is how I would do it." Those conversations are actually welcome, but I would tweak that format a bit because using that might come off sounding a little condescending, but you get the idea.

[WolfyBlah]

Ok, take a step outside what you believe for just a second. Let's get creative and build a pseuo-narrative to explain why zombies can do this. Perhaps the zombies in this game aren't really undead like the George Romero variety, but instead are more like the Alex Garland variety you might find in 28 Days Later. They aren't dead, but they aren't right either. They still display a reasonable sense of intelligence above just basic feeding instincts. They can do problem solving, they understand basic structural architecture like most of us do, and perhaps what they are infected with gives them a touch of superhuman physical capabilities. I mean considering that this game has next to no back story, would it really be a stretch to consider this as potential canon?

 

Also what you call "exploiting the AI" can also be considered outsmarting your enemy. It's a basic tactic for any combat situation. Diversion, distraction, funnelling into choke points, etc are all things that are taught in any special combat school, so it would make sense that those sort of things could be employed to on some scale here. Just something to consider.

 

Eh justify it anyway you please: they dont feel like zombies and thats a damn shame for a game that used to be my 3rd favourate zombie game.

(project zomboid and KillingFloor 1/2 would be the others for anyone intrested) one has great relaism and simulation and the other has great gunplay and fun action)

 

And im sorry but i dont put much stock in the outsmarting the enemies thing, if they were a truely intelligent enemy then why would they ever attack your fortified position or fall for simple ♥♥♥♥ like mazes.

 

So they are smart enough to not walk directly into spikes but at the same time incapable of making the decision to wait for the player to come out from under thier mound of traps?

 

(Intresting note: killing floor isnt actualy zombies and instead mutant... clone... things? Thourght i should clarify this before anyone decided to point it out)