Minibike controls

[Purpura_Draco]

@vasco You may want to learn to spot the difference between a criticism and a statement of different experience and/or preference. You may also wish to learn the difference between logic and rational discourse. Not a criticism either, it's an observation because some things need to be said. How you take it is up to you because I have no control over how you think, nor do I care beyond how it affects me.

 

@MSJ No worries, though your comments could have been read as sarcastic they could also be read as not. I am well aware of plain text being a very poor medium for conveying emotion. Without emotes to clue the reader in I make no assumptions except one, that without evidence to the contrary, I must assume you will do the same.

 

I suppose it is possible that my ability to control via the thumb stick is better than your own, maybe I've played more games that require it than you, but I find this hard to believe. When I first had a go on a controller, which was not that long ago, it was like patting your head with one hand while making circular motions on your abdomen with the other. Now that is something I can do quite easily but observed others find as hard as I found controller controls. Never observed the same for thumb controls with people used to a controller and I've witnessed a fair few, just not everyone obviously.

 

Now let's say you are correct and I am better, my point was that it does not matter.

 

Each stick, left and right, has enough fine control to be able to do what it is supposed to do. I already pointed out on-foot movement also involves the right stick too. I will now point out that you do not control your facing with a circular motion on your right thumb stick. You must be making small, more precise movements like I do. The same is true for aiming when you cannot be making circular movements but as precisely as you can, small flicks left or right, up or down. I would be very surprised to discover that you do not also use your left thumb to compliment controlling your character's precise position and your aim. I have to conclude that when you move forward or backwards on foot that you also strafe left and right (you say you do on the minibike after all) but to no ill effect or how do you walk/run across a single block walkway, for example? These small, more precise movement are exactly the same ones you use with your left thumb when you are, e.g. also pushing forward on that stick while on the minibike.

 

As for how one holds the controller, it is ergonomically designed to be held similarly even if not the same way in every case but where my fingers are is far less important than if I am using them or not. Obviously it takes less brain processing committed to hand-eye coordination to control the movement of one thumb than it does to control the movement of one thumb and two fingers.

 

The minibike is not so responsive that slight errors will matter as much as you imply. I have no idea if the turning circle stat on console works anymore than the speed stat works but even if it matters, the very best turning circle is still not so precise that slight errors on the thumb stick matter very much. Yes, it is different as I already mentioned but the learning curve is extremely low, as I also mentioned. If you cannot find a relatively flat and obstacle free area to practice when you get on a minibike for the very first time, just look around. If your personal learning curve is higher, keep that spot in mind and continue practicising.

 

I do not mock or criticise your preference, only point out that it is a preference and not something universal. I was the first to suggest in this thread that optional control schemes could be a solution. If I were mocking or criticising then I would not have done so. What I definitely do not want is a straight swap because that would leave me and those like me at a disadvantage. That you are used to playing games with a seperate accelerate and brake/reverse control is obvious, e.g. racing games or GTA and the like. What you must keep in mind is that games like that either revolve around driving or have it as a major theme. It is unnecessary in a game like this because it does not need to be complicated. That you are asking for it to be more complicated is a given because 3 main controls requires more practice than one main control.

 

Now for the life of me I cannot conceive that you are unable to drive a minibike in this game. You may not like controlling one but I'll lay odds you can, despite how you make it sound. Now keep in mind that I never said that I do not hit trees, rocks, cars, bags and the like or occasionally drive off a cliff unintentionally but that's part of the fun and bugger all to do with the control scheme. I've seen plenty of pc players do exactly the same when they are using a far more precise mouse and keyboard on a much more responsive platform than console. If I used your suggested control scheme I would be frustrated until I passed the learning curse, a curve that must, by virtue of requiring more hand eye coordination, take longer to master than what we have now. I could master it easily enough, have done in games such as GTA, but why should I have to when what we have now is not broken, merely not yours or a few others preference. If they wish to give you an option, great, we're all happy. If not then one of us has to suck it up and I would rather than not be me

[MJS101104]

Hope it's clearer now, and sorry for the lengthy posts, I even had to shorten it.

 

I have to conclude that when you move forward or backwards on foot that you also strafe left and right (you say you do on the minibike after all) but to no ill effect or how do you walk/run across a single block walkway, for example?

 

You're going to have to post where I say this(the part in bold about being able strafing on the minibike), because it is mechanically impossible to strafe on the minibike because that would imply that the minibike is capable of side to side mobility. Which it is not, and I never said you could strafe on the minibike. In fact, I quite clearly point out that the ability to strafe whoile on foot is a major difference between the control mechanics for on foot movement and on minibike movement. So I am not sure where you got the idea that I think you can strafe on the minibike.

 

As for how I walk across a one block walkway, it's quite simple really. When I move the left analog stick while on foot and there is a slight shift, that shift to either the left or the right is minimal regardless of forward momentum. The same is not true for the minibike, a shift left or right on the analog stick cause you to turn off course not strafe on the bike. You may have noticed when you use the bows or guns that you are able to make minute adjustments, as we see below.

 

These small, more precise movement are exactly the same ones you use with your left thumb when you are, e.g. also pushing forward on that stick while on the minibike.

 

Actually, no they aren't. As I have stated previously, and more than once, the shift on the left analog actually turns the minibike and changes your direction of forward movement(From north to northeast for example). The same isn't true for being on foot. And no, i am not saying make the minibike controls more like the on foot controls or vice versa.

 

An example would be when you are running, say to get to an air drop. If you need to travel north, but decide to use the right analog stick to look left or right or even behind you(say to keep track of a zombie chasing you) you have to adjust your left analog movement in the opposite direction to keep moving north. If you don't you change the direction you are running in, so if you actually use the right analog stick to turn to the left(which makes you turn northwest and if held long enough west) while not adjusting the left analog stick accordingly you with begin traveling northwest or west depending on how long you hold it. This gives you far more precise control on foot than you get with the minibike, because it allows for minute adjustments in position. If you think I'm wrong, next time you are on the minibike face north, then use the right analog stick to turn the camera view south and push forward. I can guarantee you will still travel north and not south. Yet, if you do the same thing while on foot you will actually travel south. Those are different control mechanics.

 

The minibike is not so responsive that slight errors will matter as much as you imply. I have no idea if the turning circle stat on console works anymore than the speed stat works but even if it matters, the very best turning circle is still not so precise that slight errors on the thumb stick matter very much.

 

Again, I am not talking about general forward movement as a matter of course. Which seems to be how you are taking my comments, at least judging by your various replies. I am referring to steering, and how it works on the minibike and how to reduce errors.

 

Another example would be the one block wide walkway you mentioned earlier in your post. Let's assume you are traveling down a one block wide path while on the minibike with spikes on either side. If your finger shifts even slightly, and adding in the speed at which the minibike moves, you can quickly find yourself driving off of that one block pathway and falling right into the spikes below. All due to an accidental shift in the left analog that caused you to turn to the side.

 

Where as, if the acceleration control were say the R2 button you wouldn't even need to use the analog stick as long as you have your steering aligned properly. Which is also something you mention a lot, the use of multiple buttons. And you are right, I am used to games with separate acceleration and steering controls. Primarily because that's how it has become standard practice on consoles, even in other games that aren't vehicle centric. Games like Far Cry 3(or Far Cry 4 which actually has the option to change the controls between something similar to 7DtD and the "classic" multiple button mechanic from Far Cry 3) use different acceleration buttons, and don't center around vehicle movement or racing.

 

I do not mock or criticise your preference, only point out that it is a preference and not something universal. I was the first to suggest in this thread that optional control schemes could be a solution. If I were mocking or criticising then I would not have done so./QUOTE]

 

It's actually possible to both criticize and mock, but that's an entirely different discussion and not the point anyway. I was just trying to make sure you didn't take my comments as an insult or sarcasm, because they weren't.

 

Now keep in mind that I never said that I do not hit trees, rocks, cars, bags and the like or occasionally drive off a cliff unintentionally but that's part of the fun and bugger all to do with the control scheme.

 

This actually has everything to do with the control scheme, since with a more precise control scheme this could be avoided more easily. Just because you have a preference for liking the unpredictability of the minibikes controls doesn't change the fact that it is less precise currently, and a personal preference you like just as mine is a personal preference. Because I find accidentally driving off cliffs, getting stuck on trees, rocks, cars, etc. to be quite annoying. The separate mechanics for acceleration and braking from the steering control mechanics would improve this, but even with these changes it'd still be possible to drive into trees, rocks, cars, or drive off cliffs by accident. It'd just be less likely since the steering and acceleration couldn't be changed by the slip up of one finger.

 

Given the fact that you admit even you have accidentally driven off of a cliff gives me some hope for my own ability to control the minibike better. And a better idea of how we are differing in our view points.

 

If not then one of us has to suck it up and I would rather than not be me

 

Well, obviously that's a given, and I would obviously feel the same way. I think that is part of the human condition, especially since gamers like to play games the way they want. Which is why 99.99% of gamers would agree that more customization options are always a benefit to a game.

 

While I will easily admit that the changes I propose would require a readjustment to(or learning curve if you like) for most players of 7 Days to die, I do not believe it would be any harder to become acclimated to than the current scheme. I also find it hard to believe that anyone playing 7 days to Die has never played any game with separate acceleration and braking mechanics from steering mechanics, and fail to see how or would be harder given the commonality in the standard of use for such a mechanic. Another issue I think, is that you are making two incorrect assumptions about my proposed changes to the control scheme.

 

1. You seem to be under the impression that I want to change the steering controls so that they work different, which isn't the case. I simply propose making the acceleration and brake mechanic separate from the steering mechanic. Whether you think I want to make the minibike controls more like the on foot controls or vice versa I cannot say, but I can assure I am not proposing changing the steering. All I am proposing is making the acceleration and brake mechanic separate from the steering mechanic, much like how we drive cars with different means for steering and acceleration or braking in real life. So I doubt the learning curve would be as harsh as you seem to think it would be.

 

2. You seem to be under the impression that I am unable to control the minibike at all. Which clearly isn't the case, since from the very beginning all of my remarks have been about making the controls more precise and less prone to control errors. Such as driving into trees, or driving off of cliffs. In fact, if memory serves, I mention accidentally driving off of cliffs(and into bodies of water) from the start. So at no point am I claiming I am unable to use the minibike at all, and I never claimed otherwise. I just simply state that having the acceleration and braking be part of the steering mechanic makes it more cumbersome and less accurate, more prone to accidents. Which even you admit has happened to you. And given that you admit it happens to you shows it is an issue, it's just an issue you don't mind dealing with.

 

The differences between our opinions seems to simply boil down to whether or not we find accidentally driving off course(which can cause you to drive off of cliffs or into bodies of water, or get stuck on environmental elements like trees and rocks) annoying enough to warrant a change. You seem more than happy to accept the unpredictable elements of steering the minibike, as you've stated yourself, and I am not.

 

Lastly, this is all about preference isn't it? Even having the minibike put into the game was about preference wasn't it, I mean it wasn't in the game when it was first created and only got added later on. Later on when it became apparent that there was a preference for being able to travel faster on such a large make and carry addition loot somehow. It's all relative, to preference.

[MJS101104]

@vasco You may want to learn to spot the difference between a criticism and a statement of different experience and/or preference.

 

Actually you do both in your replies, you make your opinions/preferences known, while also criticizing how the proposed changes would affect you and others. Not sure why you think Vasco8407 needs to take a semasiology class, though. You also seem unable to understand plurality, he said critics not critic. You may have not noticed but there were others who criticized the proposed changes.

 

You may also wish to learn the difference between logic and rational discourse.

 

I seem to be missing your point here as well, because Vasco8407 at no point shows a lack of understanding of the difference between logic(characterized by or capable of clear, sound reasoning.) and rational discourse(written or spoken communication or debate based on or in accordance with reason or logic) And as you can see, rational discourse is simply discourse characterized by clear, sound reasoning.

 

Not a criticism either, it's an observation because some things need to be said.

 

An observation can be a criticism, and in the context in which your words are used it is clear that you are criticizing his ability to understand various definitions. Definitions that you yourself seem unable or unwilling to understand or acknowledge?

 

How you take it is up to you because I have no control over how you think, nor do I care beyond how it affects me.

 

This is usually the argument used by someone who knows he is being condescending towards someone else, but seeks to justify his condescension as deserved. It's the same argument donkey-holes use to declare themselves as simply being "blunt" to justify themselves for being donkey-holes. People like me, perhaps?

 

But that's not a criticism, it's an observation and simply had to be said. How you take it is up to you, I have no control over how you think.(Yes, this is sarcasm. )

 

P.S. I'm just yanking your chain here, joking around. It's meant in a good-natured humor. And yes, I'm bored. lol

[Meracat0r]

How has no one mentioned the HORN? Why is the horn only usable when off of the bike lol and I am also on team lemme use my map on my bike lol. But I don't mind the controls, don't remember if it messed me up or not but I go from gta, to horizon, to uncharted, to 7 days and i don't miss a beat but maybe I'm just awesome lol

[Vasco8407]

Lol Purp I don't know why you attacked me. I was just complimenting MSJ for supporting his thoughts and opinions against differing opinions. I wasn't outing or denouncing anyone. This thread has been one of the best discussions in a while. But if you feel better now, good. Continue on.

[Purpura_Draco]

Did you forget we were discussing controlling the bike compared to walking or running? Quite obviously, at least to anyone not so in love with their own opinion they feel the need to defend it from imagined threat, the very same thumb action that you say makes you wobble on the minibike also makes you strafe while running.

 

I get bored but not so bored that I feel the need to pass my time educating you on English comprehension 101. Enjoy current controls for the foreseeable future because I doubt they'd alter them at this time and probably never if your only justification for it is to say, "gimme, I want it". I'll leave you with a small clue, however, because I'm feeling generous - there is a difference between rational argument and rationalising your argument. Have fun

[Vasco8407]

Because if someone's opinion doesn't match your own it's not rational. My bad, got it!

[Meracat0r]

But seriously guys, lets talk about that horn

[Damselx1]

But seriously guys, lets talk about that horn

 

The bike has a horn? Mine's never made a sound.

[Meracat0r]

That's because you have to get off of it then inspect it to use it lol I think that's just silly

[J2dank]

Ever since ive seen the new boars and wolves on pc, ive wanted to tame one and ride it instead of a mini bike.

[Damselx1]

That's because you have to get off of it then inspect it to use it lol I think that's just silly

 

Does seem a bit odd. Pity.

[Vasco8407]

It's not classy to go around tooting your own horn.

[MJS101104]

Close the thread please

 

Did you forget we were discussing controlling the bike compared to walking or running? Quite obviously, at least to anyone not so in love with their own opinion they feel the need to defend it from imagined threat, the very same thumb action that you say makes you wobble on the minibike also makes you strafe while running.

 

I get bored but not so bored that I feel the need to pass my time educating you on English comprehension 101. Enjoy current controls for the foreseeable future because I doubt they'd alter them at this time and probably never if your only justification for it is to say, "gimme, I want it". I'll leave you with a small clue, however, because I'm feeling generous - there is a difference between rational argument and rationalising your argument. Have fun

 

You mean raionalination of an argument by someone admitting the very issues I was talking about do exist, namely accidently riding in the wrong direction while on the minibike and hitting trees or rocks or driving off cliffs? Then rationalizing their preference for not changing the controls to make such errors even less likely because the accidental errors don't bother them as much as they do others? Like you did? Just because something isn't broken enough for you to care about it doesn't mean it's not broken or couldn't be made better. If anyone is rationalizing, it's the guy who admits there is a problem with the steering controls of the minibike but doesn't want them changed because he simply doesn't care. Your like one of those idiots that rides on tires that are unbalanced, which makes it harder to steer a car properly and adds unnecessary risk, because they don't mind the occasional drift into on coming lanes or drifting into ditches because it adds "exitement" for them.

 

I have tried being civil, even tried bringing some levity to the discussion with an ironic, overly analytical post that was clearly marked as such. You on the other hand have been a condescending a$$ the whole time. As evidenced by your multiple "well, it's not likely to get changed so deal" remarks and your "I'm a pretend to be an English and Reading proffessor" comments. I know the forums say be civil, even in disagreement and criticizm. But that is hard to do when the other person is a condescending a$$.

 

So rather than continue this discourse and risk you insulting more peple for not sharing your opinions, opinions that you seem to think so highly that you feel the need to belittle others. Like some narcissistic child. So if an admin sees this, could you close this thread? It has run its course and is starting devolve into arguments rather than discussion, and I'd rather the threads discussion not deteriorate even more. Both sides have been presented and nothing more need be said.

[Outlaw_187]

I did love the "donkey hole" remark....great job masking that one.

 

Agreed about the horn, that is silly you can only access it through the control wheel. I then figured it was a "zombie caller" but I've honked it near some zombies that haven't seen me yet & they never reacted. Oh well I guess, a very minor gripe there.

[Purpura_Draco]

Because if someone's opinion doesn't match your own it's not rational. My bad, got it!

 

No, his preference is irrational until he decides to justify it. That I prompted him to justify it, rather than accept "gimme, I want it" as a reason, in turn prompted him to try and rationalise rather than answer. That you have both chosen to attack me rather than discuss the topic is self-evidently irrational.

 

Here is an <I win> button since you both obviously require one. You can pleasure yourselves with it to your hearts content

[Purpura_Draco]

You mean raionalination of an argument by someone admitting the very issues I was talking about do exist, namely accidently riding in the wrong direction while on the minibike and hitting trees or rocks or driving off cliffs? Then rationalizing their preference for not changing the controls to make such errors even less likely because the accidental errors don't bother them as much as they do others? Like you did? Just because something isn't broken enough for you to care about it doesn't mean it's not broken or couldn't be made better. If anyone is rationalizing, it's the guy who admits there is a problem with the steering controls of the minibike but doesn't want them changed because he simply doesn't care. Your like one of those idiots that rides on tires that are unbalanced, which makes it harder to steer a car properly and adds unnecessary risk, because they don't mind the occasional drift into on coming lanes or drifting into ditches because it adds "exitement" for them.

 

I have tried being civil, even tried bringing some levity to the discussion with an ironic, overly analytical post that was clearly marked as such. You on the other hand have been a condescending a$$ the whole time. As evidenced by your multiple "well, it's not likely to get changed so deal" remarks and your "I'm a pretend to be an English and Reading proffessor" comments. I know the forums say be civil, even in disagreement and criticizm. But that is hard to do when the other person is a condescending a$$.

 

So rather than continue this discourse and risk you insulting more peple for not sharing your opinions, opinions that you seem to think so highly that you feel the need to belittle others. Like some narcissistic child. So if an admin sees this, could you close this thread? It has run its course and is starting devolve into arguments rather than discussion, and I'd rather the threads discussion not deteriorate even more. Both sides have been presented and nothing more need be said.

 

Personal insults? Quaint. Still, it beats the passive aggression you seem to think has been disguising that it is aggression you're employing.

[MJS101104]

Personal insults? Quaint. Still, it beats the passive aggression you seem to think has been disguising that it is aggression you're employing.

 

Please oh great one, show me a posting sample where I have been "passive aggressive" in my remarks and not sincere in my arguments. Show me where I have been anything but civil in my language, reasonable in my explanations, or attempted to inject levity into what was becoming an argument through exaggeration. Levity which is explicitly noted. I have a feeling that, much like my request for you to show me evidence where I stated minibikes can strafe, you'll be unable to provide so much as a single comment to back your BS up.

 

You also apparently suffer from stupiditis, a condition that prevents you from seeing what is in plain text in font of you or causes you to ignore the very explanations that do exactly what you claim they don't do. Like going into detail on how on-foot controls differ from the minibike controls and how that affect steering adversely, and why my proposal for a change might help. There was nothing irrational about any of it. The irrational one is the guy that admits to the faults I said exited, but refuses to admit that a possible change in controls could help because of his personal preference for having faulty controls for the "challenge" of it.

[MJS101104]

I did love the "donkey hole" remark....great job masking that one.

 

Agreed about the horn, that is silly you can only access it through the control wheel. I then figured it was a "zombie caller" but I've honked it near some zombies that haven't seen me yet & they never reacted. Oh well I guess, a very minor gripe there.

 

Well, the intent was levity and not to actually insult anyone. Which I thought the overly exaggerated tone and comments like the donkey hole remark in the post would show. Glad you liked it. However, it's not mine I heard donkey hole somewhere else. In a movie I think.

[Purpura_Draco]

Was the <I win> button I gave you to stroke not good enough? And after you passively aggressively asked for the thread to be closed too. Change your mind? It was just one example you wanted, right? Not that I needed to give one, just read your tone throughout. And since your self-control is lacking, let me help you out again... buh-bye topic /waves

[atriox]

it's fine the way It is, I play halo mainly and the driving controls isn't different but some vehicles have an extra ability like power slide or boost to use these you would press LT.

[silvia95guy]

Since I started this thread, I figured I'd give some idea of what I think would be good controls for minibike(or other vehicles that might get added later on).

 

Acceleration = R2

Emergency/Brake = X

Brake/Reverse = L2

Square = Map(Which you can't do now either)

 

I think this control scheme would actually make the minibike(or other vehicles) easier to control, and make it more console controller compatible.

 

Just recently started playing, and minibike controls are one of my biggest gripes. I above control figuration is what I had in mind also, and would be ideal for vehicle controls, especially if they do decided to add some sort of dune buggy.

[Boidster]

It's Google searches what cause zombie threads, I tells ya. But I sympathize with the posters - when you find the thread that's talking about exactly what you want to talk about, it's tough to note the date and/or start a fresh discussion.

[maughanorama]

Necropost-tastic...

[diedondayone]

I just built my first minibike in the game yesterday. When I placed the frame on the ground, I wasn't paying attention to which way was forward and put it down facing the direction of my heavily fortified blood moon base. I hopped on and assumed it was the right trigger to accelerate and left trigger to reverse. Next thing you know I drive full speed into two rows of spikes and into my base. I instantly died and my minibike was toast. When I rebuilt it, I put it soooo far away from everything so I could learn how to drive it. Stupid left stick isn't natural at all, but I'm used to it now.