V1.1 b4 EXP

[Kreivi01]

how about u actually fix something important? like vehicles going missing after logging out?

[schwanz9000]

16 minutes ago, Kreivi01 said:

how about u actually fix something important? like vehicles going missing after logging out?

The team is fully aware of the issue and have been reviewing possible solutions.

[DickJustice]

2 minutes ago, schwanz9000 said:

The team is fully aware of the issue and have been reviewing possible solutions.

Any chance of a response to my query?

[schwanz9000]

6 hours ago, schwanz9000 said:

We don't expect to see any game breaking issues with old save games, but we always recommend starting a new game. Not only for various bugs that "may" occur, but for the benefit of new or updated content such as art, POI's, and/or RWG algorithm updates.

 

2 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

Any chance of a response to my query?

Was answered before you asked.

No one is forcing you to restart. It is simply a recommendation.

[Morloc]

2 hours ago, Jerry560 said:

Because it is getting kinda annoying how everything in the room automatically aggros on the player when certain block threshold is crossed, even while sneaking.

 

It would be nice to add a loud audible floorboard creak, or smashing glass sound (etc.) to show why/when this is happening.

 

 

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

[FranticDan]

Was playing v1.1 b4 today. When cars explode, there's no explosion or audio, just blocks flying everywhere

[schwanz9000]

Just now, FranticDan said:

Was playing v1.1 b4 today. When cars explode, there's no explosion or audio, just blocks flying everywhere

Known issue. Same with propane tanks.

[DickJustice]

3 minutes ago, schwanz9000 said:

 

Was answered before you asked.

No one is forcing you to restart. It is simply a recommendation.

 

Gotta say "no one is forcing you to restart" is a pretty lousy way to address a valid customer complaint.

[Morloc]

14 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

Gotta say "no one is forcing you to restart" is a pretty lousy way to address a valid customer complaint.

 

Schwanz's tone can't be conveyed through text, but I'd say he was being very straightforward and not condescending or anything.

 

Most of the changes that are made to POI's won't be reflected in an already-generated world. We get to decide whether or not it's worth it to restart a game to experience the changes. Other changes don't care, and will be live even in an old game.

 

I personally don't want the POI additions to ever end, so I'm happy to make the decision to restart or not. Most often I don't restart unless I see something utterly cool that want in my game.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, DickJustice said:

What is final then? This makes 1.0 meaningless. Why even take it out of early access in the first place if you're recommending players to start up again after not even 20 days? Why play the game at all? It shows little regard for the userbase experience.

 

As an addendum, you can go on to the Steam comments for the news post about the 1.1 update and see what I'm talking about. There's a lot of dissatisfaction. Often with user comments, I feel it's excessively negative and that often people just love to be really loud about very subjective complaints - but this I totally understand getting worked up about. The whole charm of the game is the player progression - going from easily getting overrun by slower groups of 3 zombies versus mastering the apocalypse, and it takes time and it takes a certain amount of healthy grinding, but you get there. Players who started 1.0 Stable thinking they were safe from restarts, what? They should throw 40 hours away without a second thought? What about working on elaborate bases? Extensive resource gathering?

 

You won't get an argument from me about the version number.  It is believed by many of us that they were required to take it out of early access and call it 1.0 for console to be released.  The roadmap makes it clear that it is not a final gold release until they finish everything listed there.  The number makes people have certain expectations that just won't be valid yet because it isn't gold regardless of being 1.0.

 

19 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

 

Gotta say "no one is forcing you to restart" is a pretty lousy way to address a valid customer complaint.

 

You do not have to restart, so the concern about restarting isn't really valid.  You simply do not restart.  However, they have made it clear that there are still major updates coming and a restart may be unavoidable if you update to the latest version. 

[DickJustice]

23 minutes ago, Morloc said:

 

Schwanz's tone can't be conveyed through text, but I'd say he was being very straightforward and not condescending or anything.

 

Most of the changes that are made to POI's won't be reflected in an already-generated world. We get to decide whether or not it's worth it to restart a game to experience the changes. Other changes don't care, and will be live even in an old game.

 

I personally don't want the POI additions to ever end, so I'm happy to make the decision to restart or not. Most often I don't restart unless I see something utterly cool that want in my game.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

 

Regardless, the game has been in development for over 10 years. When you take the damn thing out of early release, there is an expectation that you're going to finally get the whole game. Saying "restarting is optional" is not really so because otherwise why apply these fixes and updates at all, if they're optional? It's major content that the client is going to miss out on - by the dev's own words, "heavily recommended" - obviously you don't want to keep restarting your progress over and over, so you're forced to miss out on content that you paid for.

 

As well as, I gotta say, plenty is said by not saying. I tried to convey my message respectfully and with the respective decorum - before getting to the issue, I expressed the appreciation I have for this game and the work that was put to it - which is more than you can say for comments like @Kreivi01's up there, which goes

 

"how about u actually fix something important?"

 

Seems rather like a horse stumbling out of a barn, no? I tried to give more context than that. But I get a blank sort of

 

"we already answered your question. No one is forcing you to do anything"

 

And no respect given to the obvious inconveniences had in the first place, of getting locked out content through no fault of my own, which I'm not the only to voice concerns about.

17 minutes ago, Riamus said:

You do not have to restart, so the concern about restarting isn't really valid.  You simply do not restart. 

 

Not at all - two major points.

 

1. I'm getting locked out of content that I should be getting - or I gotta restart 40+ hours of progress. No complaints if it's alpha, but this is not alpha anymore. Factors like console availability do not concern me. When you make it 1.0, you're creating an expectation, under which I start a new game and don't expect any need at all for a restart after that.

 

If the content isn't worth a restart, why do the devs say "it's strongly recommended"? POI stuff seems pretty important.

 

2.  How many more such updates will there be? Plenty, by the look of it? With 20 days apart? How much content would that, then become? Certainly not small anymore.

 

Again, I'm not trying to make a huge deal out of this, it's not the end of the world, I'm not trying to clog the thread with my comments, but it's a pretty pesky thing to have to work around. Is it not? I expected at least a little bit more regard from dev spokespeople, because like I said, I'm not the only one locked out content after putting a lot of time into this game. Just takes one peek into the Steam page to read user complaints.

Edited August 8 by DickJustice (see edit history)

[Armor9]

2 hours ago, DickJustice said:

First - I love this game. Much appreciation to the developers and also for working on it for such a long time. 

 

However I do have to say, it's 1.0 out of early access. You can't be asking players to restart their entire game and drop all progression just for a few minor POI fixes. I've been playing since about Alpha 18 or 19. I understand restarting from Alpha to Alpha because then, it's a ton of time in between, basically yearly, but 1.0 stable released the 25th of July, and you're asking us to restart already? Knowing what was to come, a lot of players waited until 1.0 Stable, skipping a long-awaited experimental. Basically for nothing then?

 

Surely it's possible to apply these minor fixes without requiring the player to start the whole thing over. It won't be mandatory when 1.1 Stable releases, right?

 

Plus, what if bigger updates come? Will the game ever be playable without restarting over and over?

 

Like I said, I have a lot of love for this game and the devs, I'd hate to think this post of mine could be received as a sort of big negative complaint and nothing positive, it's not - but this issue is something that urgently needs seeing to, and that a lot of users are talking about. As a paying customer, this is disappointing.

 

Agree 100%.  Been playing something like A8 (back when it was Minecraft looking) so I wait until 1.0 STABLE to start playing, have 5-6 hours in and now they are saying it needs a restart?  Why can't you implement a POI reset like when you do missions so any updated POI is updated to the new one?  Seems like a much better idea than a restart.  Makes me think this is just another Alpha with a 1.0 slapped on it. 

[Riamus]

7 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

Not at all - two major points.

 

1. I'm getting locked out of content that I should be getting - or I gotta restart 40+ hours of progress. No complaints if it's alpha, but this is not alpha anymore. Factors like console availability do not concern me. When you make it 1.0, you're creating an expectation, under which I start a new game and don't expect any need at all for a restart after that.

 

If the content isn't worth a restart, why do the devs say "it's strongly recommended"? POI stuff seems pretty important.

 

2.  How many more such updates will there be? Plenty, by the look of it? With 20 days apart? How much content would that, then become? Certainly not small anymore.

1. You will always need a new map if you want new POI or most POI updates and you can probably expect to see POI added after the game is actually gold, which means new maps when they do so is you want those.  New POI don't magically appear on an existing map.  You can, of course, edit your map in world editor and update it to include the POI and then use chunk reset so those updates appear in your save.  No need to miss out on the is you really want them in an existing save.

 

2. They will continue to update until gold (see roadmap) and there will likely be bug fix patches released after gold and likely stuff like new POI (the last isn't confirmed and it's only my guess).  You have a choice here. Knowing that there will continue to be updates, you can wait until gold to play the game, or you can play the game and restart each version to get the updated stuff (you don't even have to use experimental), or you can stay on an older version until your current game ends and then update, or you can update and keep playing your current game even though you may not have all the new things, or you can update your map and save as I mentioned above.  But no matter what option you choose, the game will continue to get updates that may require a restart in order to get all of those changes.

3 minutes ago, Armor9 said:

 

Agree 100%.  Been playing something like A8 (back when it was Minecraft looking) so I wait until 1.0 STABLE to start playing, have 5-6 hours in and now they are saying it needs a restart?  Why can't you implement a POI reset like when you do missions so any updated POI is updated to the new one?  Seems like a much better idea than a restart.  Makes me think this is just another Alpha with a 1.0 slapped on it. 

It is still alpha, yes.  It is not gold. 

 

And you can reset a POI using chunk reset and it should update to include the new POI changes.  It just will not add new POI to your map.  For that, you would need to use the world editor.

[rateds2k]

45 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

 

Gotta say "no one is forcing you to restart" is a pretty lousy way to address a valid customer complaint.

Sounds like a great way to respond. It is just a recommendation.  You do not have to restart. This is still an experimental release.  This is a dev team that is on top of bugs and always fixing and adding new content. Maybe look at it as a positive.

[Armor9]

45 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

 

Gotta say "no one is forcing you to restart" is a pretty lousy way to address a valid customer complaint.

 

Yeah, "no one is forcing you to restart" but you ain't goin get the benefit of all the @%$# that was broken that was fixed since we went Gold. 

How about a real answer?  Perhaps work on a chunk reset or all chunks reset except ones with bed rolls or make detailed OFFICIAL instructions on how to take an old base (chunk) and leveled character and import it into a newly made map with all of the fixes in place. 

See, that is how to do customer service, not just a "sucks to be you" post. 

[DickJustice]

2 minutes ago, Riamus said:

1. You will always need a new map if you want new POI or most POI updates and you can probably expect to see POI added after the game is actually gold, which means new maps when they do so is you want those.  New POI don't magically appear on an existing map.  You can, of course, edit your map in world editor and update it to include the POI and then use chunk reset so those updates appear in your save.  No need to miss out on the is you really want them in an existing save.

 

2. They will continue to update until gold (see roadmap) and there will likely be bug fix patches released after gold and likely stuff like new POI (the last isn't confirmed and it's only my guess).  You have a choice here. Knowing that there will continue to be updates, you can wait until gold to play the game, or you can play the game and restart each version to get the updated stuff (you don't even have to use experimental), or you can stay on an older version until your current game ends and then update, or you can update and keep playing your current game even though you may not have all the new things, or you can update your map and save as I mentioned above.  But no matter what option you choose, the game will continue to get updates that may require a restart in order to get all of those changes.

 

Which I understand, I understand that the updates will continue and that the 1.0 is pretty much a formality, and I thank you for the options given, but I still gotta say, making 1.0 a formality is on the dev's end, not the player's end. 

 

For a player, 1.0 means 1.0. It means forget about restarts. To then put over 40 hours in and casually get "new game strongly recommended" dropped on your lap, there's either a lack of communication or a lack of consideration, but something is amiss.

6 minutes ago, rateds2k said:

Sounds like a great way to respond. It is just a recommendation.  You do not have to restart. This is still an experimental release.

 

I don't have to restart but if I don't I miss out on POI stuff and bug fixes.

[Armor9]

8 minutes ago, Riamus said:

It is still alpha, yes.  It is not gold. 

 

And you can reset a POI using chunk reset and it should update to include the new POI changes.  It just will not add new POI to your map.  For that, you would need to use the world editor.

 

No sorry, when you go to 1.0 you don't get to use the Alpha excuse any more.  Plus they increased the price so no, next excuse. 

 

As for using the World Editor, resetting chunks, etc., as I said, if they want us to have to go that route, they should provide detailed official instructions on how to do that so the POIs are fixed/updated.  Saying, its there, figure it out is poor customer service. 

[DickJustice]

4 minutes ago, Armor9 said:

 

As for using the World Editor, resetting chunks, etc., as I said, if they want us to have to go that route, they should provide detailed official instructions on how to do that so the POIs are fixed/updated.  Saying, its there, figure it out is poor customer service. 

 

Exactly. If there's a workaround, it'd be much appreciated to know about it in an official capacity, like for example addressing this issue in a Steam post or something. A lot of people, not just me or @Armor9, are having this issue. Getting a dry "no one is forcing you to restart, these are your options, figure it out" is not the way to address a valid customer complaint.

[Riamus]

4 minutes ago, Armor9 said:

 

No sorry, when you go to 1.0 you don't get to use the Alpha excuse any more.  Plus they increased the price so no, next excuse. 

 

As for using the World Editor, resetting chunks, etc., as I said, if they want us to have to go that route, they should provide detailed official instructions on how to do that so the POIs are fixed/updated.  Saying, its there, figure it out is poor customer service. 

It isn't early access, but it is still essentially alpha.  They have stated that it is not gold.  Now, I think using 1.0 was a bad idea, but they likely had no choice if they wanted to make the game available for console players rather than make them wait another could of years.   I think all the console players would prefer calling it 1.0 rather than wait.  Do their opinions matter? 

 

12 minutes ago, DickJustice said:

 

Which I understand, I understand that the updates will continue and that the 1.0 is pretty much a formality, and I thank you for the options given, but I still gotta say, making 1.0 a formality is on the dev's end, not the player's end. 

 

For a player, 1.0 means 1.0. It means forget about restarts. To then put over 40 hours in and casually get "new game strongly recommended" dropped on your lap, there's either a lack of communication or a lack of consideration, but something is amiss.

 

I don't have to restart but if I don't I miss out on POI stuff and bug fixes.

Remember that the update is experimental and not stable.  Most players should not even be playing experimental as that is a beta release meant to find bugs and test changes and not intended for normal gameplay.  Almost any developer who releases a beta will tell you that your current game is not guaranteed to work after beta is over.

[DED-EFIM]

3 hours ago, schwanz9000 said:

Could you give some examples, especially those that "ruin the game"?

as an example I can point to skill magazine, at a cost of 300 dukes from traders (in vending machines of players 100) I can buy 100 pieces for 30000 dukes, and thus complete any skill of crafting an item, maybe in a single game it is not so noticeable, but I have my own dedicated server on which 20+ players play simultaneously. the same applies to the weapons and tools that the trader offers, it is too cheap, having only a wrench I can earn 30000 dukes on disassembling equipment in one game day

ps: Sorry if I explained it badly but I don't know English

Edited August 8 by DED-EFIM (see edit history)

[Armor9]

1 minute ago, Riamus said:

Remember that the update is experimental and not stable.  Most players should not even be playing experimental as that is a beta release meant to find bugs and test changes and not intended for normal gameplay.  Almost any developer who releases a beta will tell you that your current game is not guaranteed to work after beta is over.

 

This is a poor argument because this is only about experimental because when it is out of experimental and stable, they are STILL going to say that restarting is highly recommended.  When that happens, what will be the excuse then? 

 

As for console folk, no sorry I honestly don't care, I play on PC.  TFP releasing it on console and increasing the amount they charge on PC was all about the $$$.

 

Heck after all the millions they made these last few weeks, perhaps they will invest some of that in paying someone with customer service skills. 

[Riamus]

11 minutes ago, DED-EFIM said:

as an example I can point to skill magazine, at a cost of 300 dukes from traders (in vending machines of players 100) I can buy 100 pieces for 30000 dukes, and thus complete any skill of crafting an item, maybe in a single game it is not so noticeable, but I have my own dedicated server on which 20+ players play simultaneously. the same applies to the weapons and tools that the trader offers, it is too cheap, having only a wrench I can earn 30000 dukes on disassembling equipment in one game day

ps: Sorry if I explained it badly but I don't know English

Maybe, but they only have a limited quantity available and reset every 3 days, so you aren't going to get 100 of any given magazine very quickly.

Edited August 8 by Riamus (see edit history)

[DickJustice]

8 minutes ago, Riamus said:

It isn't early access, but it is still essentially alpha.  They have stated that it is not gold.  Now, I think using 1.0 was a bad idea, but they likely had no choice if they wanted to make the game available for console players rather than make them wait another could of years.   I think all the console players would prefer calling it 1.0 rather than wait.  Do their opinions matter? 

 

Sure they matter. But this game has been in early release for PC players for over 10 years. Formal or not, 1.0 is a milestone for PC players. A long-awaited "I don't have to restart anymore to miss out on content" sorta thing. If you go "do console players' opinions matter", you have to say the same for PC players.

Quote

Remember that the update is experimental and not stable.  Most players should not even be playing experimental as that is a beta release meant to find bugs and test changes and not intended for normal gameplay.  Almost any developer who releases a beta will tell you that your current game is not guaranteed to work after beta is over.

 

Right, I understand that. But then it'll be Stable, so, I don't see what relevance this point has. 

 

Another thing is that the chunk reset and world editor apply for the POI stuff, but what about other updates? Bug fixes too.

[Riamus]

3 minutes ago, Armor9 said:

 

This is a poor argument because this is only about experimental because when it is out of experimental and stable, they are STILL going to say that restarting is highly recommended.  When that happens, what will be the excuse then? 

 

As for console folk, no sorry I honestly don't care, I play on PC.  TFP releasing it on console and increasing the amount they charge on PC was all about the $$$.

 

Heck after all the millions they made these last few weeks, perhaps they will invest some of that in paying someone with customer service skills. 

The response was to someone who is upset that they have to restart right now, which they do not.  And the response I have earlier applies for after stable... If you want new content, you need a new map.  For updates to existing content, you need to either reset the content or start a new save.  This will be true even after gold if they add new POI or update existing ones.  Note that if you have chunk reset enabled in options, the POI will automatically reset to the new versions when the chunks reset.  This won't help in areas where you visit regularly because chunks won't reset in those areas.  Either way, this will always be the case.  They can either not update POI or add new ones, or you can start a new game when you are ready to use those.  I would much rather get updates and new POI even if I won't see them until my next game.

1 minute ago, DickJustice said:

Another thing is that the chunk reset and world editor apply for the POI stuff, but what about other updates? Bug fixes too.

Which ones require a new game?  I would need to look back over them, but I don't think many beyond POI would.

[DED-EFIM]

4 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Maybe, but they only have a minute quantity available and reset every 3 days, so you aren't going to get 100 of any given magazine very quickly.

yes but there are 15 or more traders on the map and nothing prevents you from buying them all, besides I showed what the merchant immediately offers at the first stage of the game, and this is not a little