A21 Skill system has no logic at all

[LackLustaFilaBusta]

Just now, Scyris said:

 

Miner 69'er and motherload are another 2 that could use being fused into a single skill.

Exactly there are so many skills that can be compacted to improve qol for the player. They should also move them to a attributeless tree if they stick with the whole attribute system that way we have more access to them without having to dump so many skill points into attributes we dont want.

[Scyris]

Just now, LackLustaFilaBusta said:

Exactly there are so many skills that can be compacted to improve qol for the player. They should also move them to a attributeless tree if they stick with the whole attribute system that way we have more access to them without having to dump so many skill points into attributes we dont want.

 

Or just lower the stats. I was thinking 2-3 groups could work, Offense, Survival, and Utility. something like miner 69'er would be a utility skill. Stealth could be survival, sneak attack damage would be offense, as would all weapons melee and guns. The problem is less the stat system and more how everything is too spread out. If all weapons were in 1 stat i'd not mind the stat system as much as I do.

[LackLustaFilaBusta]

3 minutes ago, Scyris said:

 

Or just lower the stats. I was thinking 2-3 groups could work, Offense, Survival, and Utility. something like miner 69'er would be a utility skill. Stealth could be survival, sneak attack damage would be offense, as would all weapons melee and guns. The problem is less the stat system and more how everything is too spread out. If all weapons were in 1 stat i'd not mind the stat system as much as I do.

I mean I think both stealth perks need to be combined having them split is an insult to stealth players especially if they ended up in 2 different branches.

Weapon skills need to just be a learn by doing thing because it makes more sense that way and would provide a better gameplay experience vs I put 10 points into this attribute and now im great with clubs.

Edited June 27, 2023 by LackLustaFilaBusta (see edit history)

[Scyris]

1 minute ago, LackLustaFilaBusta said:

I mean I think both stealth perks need to be combined having them split is an insult to stealth players especially if they ended up in 2 different branches

 

Considering how much the game hates stealth playstyle as it is? it'd kinda fit with how anti-stealth tfp is going.

[LackLustaFilaBusta]

1 minute ago, Scyris said:

 

Considering how much the game hates stealth playstyle as it is? it'd kinda fit with how anti-stealth tfp is going.

Yeah stealth is iffy in poi buildings but in city settings I like it cause I can take out targets easily without getting attention from anything else.

[Uncle Al]

4 hours ago, H7dek7 said:

That's exacty my experience. From 3 berry bushes planted by me I've got 0 seeds. But, from 20+ mushrooms I've got seeds from all but one. That's when I began checking skills and found out farming skill isn't connected to the farming magazine LOL. It's still LotL, which I haven't invested a single point in. After investing all points in LotL my farming progress is almost none. After 2 rounds of crops gathering my field would be the same size if not for cattle food bags (corn seed) found on one of the farms in the village. Farming is pointless at this point. I usually play with my wife and 2-3 online friends and I'm usually the farmer of the group. In previous versions after 2-3 weeks we were self-sustaining thanks to our big farm. Now we all have to hunt/loot/buy food to stay alive.

You've also got a bug if you're losing progress now you've got LotL 3.

 

The chance of getting a seed back isn't affected by LotL OR magazines, but you get such a big yield with LotL 3 it's literally impossible not to get back more than you planted even if the RNG hates you with a passion.

 

If you're remembering your data correctly, don't have a bug and you're not succumbing to confirmation bias, the RNG does really, really hate you, by the way. The chance of getting less than 2 seeds back out of 20 plantings is 0.002%

[hotpoon]

My husband is having the same issue - not getting enough seeds back to replant.  Guess he's also unlucky.  

[hotpoon]

15 hours ago, Khalagar said:

I'm still hoping for a full attribute rework, because they are pretty illogical as a whole, and confusing to players. My friend has 700+ hours in the game and still makes comments that leads me to believe he doesn't understand them lol.

 

"I invested 10 points into strength, so I can carry more stuff!"

 

Nope, you just do more headshot damage with shotguns for some reason

 

"But I have 10 points in fortitude, so I'm a tank"

 

Nope, you just do more damage with an m60 for some reason

 

The names don't reflect anything relevant so they might as well just rename them to Perk Tree 1, Perk Tree 2,  Perk Tree 3 etc

 

IMO Attributes as a whole need to be reworked from scratch so they actually make sense and reflect what is going on

 

• Perception - Each point in perception should increase headshot damage with all weapons
• Strength - Each point in strength should let you carry more items, basically just rebrand Pack Mule. That, or it should increase damage with melee weapons
• Fortitude - Should increase your health / regen / or resistance
• Agility - Should grant cardio or Parkour by default. Letting you run further or jump higher makes way more sense for agility than how much damage you do with a bow
• Intelligence - Each point should do something like reduce crafting costs for all items, or work like better barter and grant selling boosts

 

The benefits of the above is that first of all, none of your points are wasted. It would also let them move the weapons and perks to a logical place, like putting all the ranged weapon skills in Perception, while Strength got the Melee ones, and Fortitude got the Explosives, and Agility got sneak related things etc. It would also let them move the perks around that make zero sense, like why the hell salvager is in perception or farming is in fortitude

 

Currently if you say "I want to do a playthrough using an m60 and a spear" you just . . . don't. The weapons are in two completely unrelated trees, and you'll be wasting your points on the attributes you are only getting partial value out of.

 

It's even worse if you say something like "I want to jump really high while using a spear" because then you have to waste all your points on the agility attribute which grants you absolutely nothing per point wasted. Not a single thing, because you aren't using the "on perk weapon" the devs try to force you to use

 

I'm in this exact situation right now where I want to have a small farm, which means I have to waste like 8 points into fortitude attribute (to get it to leve 5 or 6 or w/e) for zero return on investment, just to meet the criteria to get more food back from my farm.  I get absolutely no benefit from "headshot damage with an m60" because I'm not using an m60 or knuckles

 

 

YES! I brought up similar sentiment when these illogical skill trees were introduced. In fact I recall a lot of people did, but from the few responses I saw, I got the impression the devs thought it would increase replayability to tie specific weapons to specific attributes, thinking people would have separate playthroughs for specific builds.  Like a 'perception' playthrough etc. I hope they don't still think that. Your system makes SO much more sense.  I really hope the devs will consider it.

Also agree with the OP. The more I play with the magazines, the more I dislike it. Coupled with tying loot to gamestage, it forces a very linear playthrough having to unlock and use things in their 'correct' order. We no longer get the thrill of accidentally coming across a compound bow on day 2.  I know I might be in the minority, but I love the randomness of RNG.

[H7dek7]

1 hour ago, Uncle Al said:

the RNG does really, really hate you

I think so. In the water topic I read there's abundance of water and food everywhere. Yesterday evening I went 2 days in a row (and a night in between) looting. Loot ratio 200%. In-game day = 120 real-life minutes. 22 hours of daylight. And I couldn't find food/drinks at all. I had to drink and eat from base supplies instead of drinking and eating from loot found (what I normally did before A21).

Edited June 27, 2023 by H7dek7 (see edit history)

[theFlu]

3 minutes ago, H7dek7 said:

I had to drink and eat from base supplies instead of drinking and eating from loot found

I'm eating from meat mostly.. all the chickens that sudoku under my minibike.

Drinks.. drinking hat and a bucket-puddle on my base floor made that a non-issue, I still carry a 10 stack of self-made teas to keep the stamina regen buff going. I go thru half a stack in an hour of gameplay, not finding too many extra drink in a day either.

[Lasher]

8 hours ago, Scyris said:

So tired of Tfp removing choice from the players and forcing us to play in inefficent ways to meet their vision whatever the hell that is these days.

 

 

It's not a vision -  and that's the whole problem.

It's a system of throwing different mechanics at a wall, seeing what sticks, and then if the players find a way of using a particular mechanic to their advantage simply smahing it with a nerf stick so it goes away.

This is, apparently, how you make a game more "challenging" or "engaging" - rather than indroducing more challenging gameplay you simply adjuist existing systems to turn them into a far greater time and resource sink.

 

So instead of adding in bandit raids to make it more interesting we have...

Players using the new flame traps to kill zombies? Nerf flame damage (but only for zombies ofc)

Players establishing farms? Nerf the seed drop rate.

Players making too much "stuff" too early for your liking? Make water more tedious to reduce duct tape crafting.

(and ofc make vehicles take much many more repair kits to fix - that'll eat some duct tape as well)

Toss a coin and decide which perk system we like based on which dream we had the night before.

 

And on and on and on we go...

 

It's no kind of vision whatsoever - but you've already bought the game - so why do they care?

The financial pressure is no where to be seen and that again, is the whole problem.

A truly, and I really do mean this because of my love for the game, sad, sad, sad state of affairs.

[BFT2020]

9 hours ago, LackLustaFilaBusta said:

Pretty sure LoTL doesn't even give 5 crops back anymore at max rank and that skill alone is broken with only the 50% chance to get a seed back on harvest. You can't really have a self sustaining farm unless you get extremely lucky and get your seeds back on every harvest.

 

As already mentioned, you are not getting 5 crops back at max rank, you are getting 6 guaranteed crops back when you harvest player planted seeds and have a 50% chance of getting a 7th crop each time you harvest.

 

Have you actually played with LoTL maxed out and harvested player planted crops (not wild crops you find on the map, not crops you put into farm plots via CM, crops that you or another player actually planted)?

 

Unless there is a bug (and that is always possible), nothing has changed with LoTL perks from A20 to A21 with the exception of removing the seed recipes unlocks.  I am right now comparing code for the perk between A20.5 and A21 experimental and it still shows a 2x (At perk levels 1 and 2) and 3x (at perk level 3) harvest count when you invest in those perks.  And looking at the blocks file, wild potatoes has a default value of 1 crop per harvest while player planted potatoes has a default value of 2 crops per harvest.

 

I know perk levels 1 & 2 are working as intended as my current playthrough I got that perk up to level 2 and getting 4 minimum each harvest (player planted) with the occasional 5 crop.  When I am out looting or exploring, I am getting 2-3 each time I harvest plants.

 

Even if you are the unluckiest person in the world, you are going to get 10 crops per harvest (based on a 10 plot farm) if you have to make 10 seeds every time and never get the bonus crop.   And if you are only planting potatoes, corn, and mushrooms in those quantities, that is enough crops to make 5 hobo stews, 5 meat stews, 5 steak and potatoes, or 10 shepherds pies