A21 NPCMod and Addons

[arramus]

On 7/5/2023 at 8:56 PM, dayquill said:

is there anyway to increase the amount of npcs or raiders in the towns/cities?

There is a way to do that. In fact it is encouraged to make extension/expansion packs for the existing core or add on packs.

 

7 Days has 4 specific spawning groups for the cities:

 

ZombiesForestDowntown

ZombiesForestDowntownNight

ZombiesDowntown

ZombiesWastelandDowntown

 

These allow the higher rates of spawning than out in the biomes. These groups are connected up to places like commercial, industrial, and downtown areas to make them more hostile and populated.

 

There are some drawbacks however...

 

- Adding NPCs or Bandits/Raiders into the more populated areas will either see them quickly wiped out by zombies, or gradually wipe out the zombie populations depending on how spawn rates are set.

- The towns/cities are quite render heavy and having firefights continually blaring is a lot of fun, but in practice causes FPS to drop significantly.

 

As such the best possibilities are:

 

1. Have a specific NPC or Bandit POI that is placed in the Downtown, Industrial, or Commercial area. The Wasteland Mod by bdubyah does this to fine effect and it is well balanced. It helps to contain them but still make Questing them in these populated areas possible.

2. Allow the zombies Add On packs to be added to these City spawning type areas. Since they are allies to regular zombies, it will mix up the variety a lot.

3. Make a whole new tile set called Bandit Town or NPC Town for hostile or friendlies only. It could remove any zombie spawning. A Bandit Town could be quite something and is simply an extension to a POI in the small NPCMod POI Pack which has 2 large (about 100 x 100) Bandit POIs that spawn in the Wilderness and is only them.

 

Your idea is sound and very possible. The end result is pretty laggy. We have actually attempted such a feature and found it was best to keep them out of the cities beyond specific POIs.

 

21 minutes ago, Pantstain said:

yeah...if you open my mods folder there is a 0-SCore folder...and inside that is the readme and the rest of the files. 

It would help a lot to see the full log in addition to the console errors for the load out. It just helps to check if there is something prior to those yellow warnings.

Edited July 6, 2023 by arramus (see edit history)

[Pantstain]

question....can you use the spider pack (and its expansion) without using npcmod (but using S-Core)?? or do they require npcmod to function?

1 hour ago, arramus said:

It would help a lot to see the full log in addition to the console errors for the load out. It just helps to check if there is something prior to those yellow warnings.

got it straight and edited prior post. 7dtd wasnt done updating apparently and its all working correctly now

[drkstardragon]

45 minutes ago, Pantstain said:

question....can you use the spider pack (and its expansion) without using npcmod (but using S-Core)?? or do they require npcmod to function?

got it straight and edited prior post. 7dtd wasnt done updating apparently and its all working correctly now

no, as the spider entity is an add on for npc mod and has dependencies as well

 

 

[ktrain]

23 hours ago, arramus said:

Did you use the A21 updated versions from here:

https://github.com/arramus/A21-NPCMod-Prefabs

 

I thought I did grab the new ones but I will try again...

[ktrain]

OK just downloaded and same errors...I placed the files in the spider pack expansion prefabs folder, does that location not work anymore?

2023-07-07T05:29:36 235.970 INF [XUi] Initialized all window groups completed in 958 ms total.
2023-07-07T05:29:38 238.606 ERR Loading prefab "NPCMod_Bandits_Settlement_01" failed: Block "terrBurntForestFromDirt" (40) used in prefab is unknown.
2023-07-07T05:29:38 238.606 WRN Could not load prefab 'NPCMod_Bandits_Settlement_01'. Skipping it
2023-07-07T05:29:38 238.712 ERR Loading prefab "NPCMod_Bandits_Settlement_02" failed: Block "metalIndustrialFenceBottomBroken1" (11617) used in prefab is unknown.
2023-07-07T05:29:38 238.712 WRN Could not load prefab 'NPCMod_Bandits_Settlement_02'. Skipping it
2023-07-07T05:29:38 238.735 ERR Loading prefab "NPCMod_Arachnids_Cave_01" failed: Block "stalactite01" (12971) used in prefab is unknown.
2023-07-07T05:29:38 238.735 WRN Could not load prefab 'NPCMod_Arachnids_Cave_01'. Skipping it
2023-07-07T05:29:39 238.870 ERR Loading prefab "NPCMod_Arachnids_army_camp_02" failed: Block "terrBurntForestFromDirt" (40) used in prefab is unknown.
2023-07-07T05:29:39 238.870 WRN Could not load prefab 'NPCMod_Arachnids_army_camp_02'. Skipping it
2023-07-07T05:29:39 239.138 ERR Loading prefab "NPCMod_Bandits_Settlement_01" failed: Block "terrBurntForestFromDirt" (40) used in prefab is unknown.
2023-07-07T05:29:39 239.139 WRN Could not load prefab 'NPCMod_Bandits_Settlement_01'. Skipping it
2023-07-07T05:29:39 239.154 ERR Loading prefab "NPCMod_Bandits_Settlement_02" failed: Block "metalIndustrialFenceBottomBroken1" (11617) used in prefab is unknown.
2023-07-07T05:29:39 239.154 WRN Could not load prefab 'NPCMod_Bandits_Settlement_02'. Skipping it
2023-07-07T05:29:39 239.154 ERR Loading prefab "NPCMod_Arachnids_Cave_01" failed: Block "stalactite01" (12971) used in prefab is unknown.
2023-07-07T05:29:39 239.155 WRN Could not load prefab 'NPCMod_Arachnids_Cave_01'. Skipping it
2023-07-07T05:29:39 239.196 INF Started thread GenerateChunks

 

[MandyCMoore]

Good morning! I am working on a "Throwback" server and doing A19. I have the A19 NPC Mod installed, & I want to make all of the goats, pugs, & beagles friendly or neutral to players & increase the spawn of the ones we can hire. I have been playing with factions & probabilities & such, but haven't had any luck yet. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks!

[arramus]

1 hour ago, ktrain said:

OK just downloaded and same errors...I placed the files in the spider pack expansion prefabs folder, does that location not work anymore?

 

Based on your placements, I attempted to duplicate it.

All A21 NPC Mod POIs are placed in the same folder in their single folder instances.

 

Bringing up all NPC POIs show they have been placed in the World. The console showed no errors.

 

Visiting a couple of POIs, one which shows as not loading in your output.

 

 

I have been unable to duplicate the issue you are facing under similar loading circumstances.

I was using:

 

1-DarksCleanerz

1-DarksRaiderz

1-DarksSoldierz

1-NPCXSpiderPack

2-NPCXSpiderPack-ColonyExpansion (Contained the NPC POIs)

[ktrain]

Downloaded the git main folder instead of the zip file and created a new RWG world, all good now thanks!

Edited July 7, 2023 by ktrain (see edit history)

[drkstardragon]

23 minutes ago, ktrain said:

Downloaded the git main folder instead of the zip file and created a new RWG world, all good now thanks!

Mods folder in the main 7dtd directory still works fine if youre having issues.

[ktrain]

yeah just trying to future proof

[xyth]

Uploaded version 21.0.3.5 of NPCCore.  Fixed the NPCFox not using root motion.  Reduced the shuffling animation the NPCs displayed in chat.  The root cause of that is still being investigated, but this improve the visual effect. 

[Shengmingyjx]

This is an amazing mod, love it very much. Thanks for your hardworking. May I suggest please: An option that makes the ammo for NPC's range weapons not infinite, but consume the ammo in some kind of inventory where player need to put ammo in. Because inifinit ammo is really too powerful, not suit the game's find->storage->consume theme, just makes the game too easy. Sorry for my poor English.

[xyth]

1 hour ago, Shengmingyjx said:

This is an amazing mod, love it very much. Thanks for your hardworking. May I suggest please: An option that makes the ammo for NPC's range weapons not infinite, but consume the ammo in some kind of inventory where player need to put ammo in. Because inifinit ammo is really too powerful, not suit the game's find->storage->consume theme, just makes the game too easy. Sorry for my poor English.

 

That feature might be coming at some point now that we enabled weapon swapping.  Still in the fixing bugs phase, so we are not yet adding new features beyond the new weapon swapping.  

 

 

New:    Updated the Tutorial project link to new version.  This version has version 3 off the NPC Unity controller, which reduces the NPC foot shuffling that V2 had.

Edited July 7, 2023 by xyth (see edit history)

[arramus]

The Fox Friend quest Add On is updated to A21.

The Quest Note can be found in trader reading area, as well as safes.

 

[Fox]

It'd be nice if each expansion mod had it's own little description to go with them as it's not clear what exactly am I downloading for some of them (mainly referring to DarkStarDragon's mods). I tried searching the topic for answers but as we all know, the search engine here is terrible.

 

Suggestion: To prevent bloating the OP, maybe a link to a separate topic or post?

Edited July 7, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[drkstardragon]

2 minutes ago, Fox said:

It'd be nice if each expansion mod had it's own little description to go with them as it's not clear what exactly am I downloading for some of them. I tried searching the topic for answers but as we all know, the search engine here is terrible.

 

Suggestion: To prevent bloating the OP, maybe a link to a separate topic or post?

Raiderz, Soldierz and Zombiez packs should be fairly self explanatory, the Cleanerz pack is a set of retextured soldiers to appear black ops and are your enemies just like the raiderz

 

[Fox]

2 hours ago, drkstardragon said:

Raiderz, Soldierz and Zombiez packs should be fairly self explanatory, the Cleanerz pack is a set of retextured soldiers to appear black ops and are your enemies just like the raiderz

 

Self explanatory only to a degree though. For example, are they coded to have loot? Are they interactable / can negotiate at all? Default weapon loadout / predicted difficulty rating? What's special about your zombies mod over the vanilla ones, or does it just add more variety to the game? etc

 

For example, after trying most of them out, I noticed that the raiders spawn in way too frequently and right when you start off with nothing too... giving you no chance against them (especially since some spawn in with rockets or AKs). I've already died 3 times to them and have yet to even encounter a single zombie. It's only day 2. Raiders should be an addition to the zombie based game, not a main focus.

 

I don't know much about modding so I haven't figured out how to lower their spawn rate yet. I might just uninstall that mod until I get set up, and then reinstall it later (or not at all as they are kind of annoying with how often they show up).

 

Just saying... had there been a description to go with the mod expansions, I wouldn't have gone into it so blind.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[arramus]

3 hours ago, Fox said:

I don't know much about modding so I haven't figured out how to lower their spawn rate yet. I might just uninstall that mod until I get set up, and then reinstall it later (or not at all as they are kind of annoying with how often they show up).

This is something we were starting to build a compliance setting for in A20, and can be further developed for A21. For example:

 

- Add On Pack creators were encouraged to set spawn rates to 0.025 to 0.1 for biomes to reflect the regular zombie spawns. For example, in the Pine Forest the lowest rate for Zombies is 0.2 for the stronger types. As such, 0.1 was the recommendation for Add On Packs to ensure they will spawn at a regulated rate to complement the biomes rather than take over. At present it is:

 

Zombies All for most Biomes: Zombie Janitor .2 and we recommended .1

Zombies Night for most Biomes: .05 for Zombie Dog and we recommended .025

This ensure the Add On Pack entities that carry weapons are the exception and not the rule.
This is something we can start enforcing to ensure there is greater parity across the board for Zombie to Add On Pack interactions, as well as Add On Pack to Add On Pack interactions to keep the 'pond life' balanced and stable. A uniform set of rates can ensure compliance across the board and let the Zombies do their thing without getting pushed out.

 

A descriptive sentence for each Add On Pack will assist with letting down loaders know exactly what is to be expected without taking up to much space. Things are just getting to that stage where these can be addressed again, as just getting things out there was a priority and now it can be more about polishing the experience.

 

 

[khzmusik]

1 hour ago, arramus said:

This is something we were starting to build a compliance setting for in A20, and can be further developed for A21. For example:

 

- Add On Pack creators were encouraged to set spawn rates to 0.025 to 0.1 for biomes to reflect the regular zombie spawns. For example, in the Pine Forest the lowest rate for Zombies is 0.2 for the stronger types. As such, 0.1 was the recommendation for Add On Packs to ensure they will spawn at a regulated rate to complement the biomes rather than take over. At present it is:

 

Zombies All for most Biomes: Zombie Janitor .2 and we recommended .1

Zombies Night for most Biomes: .05 for Zombie Dog and we recommended .025

This ensure the Add On Pack entities that carry weapons are the exception and not the rule.
This is something we can start enforcing to ensure there is greater parity across the board for Zombie to Add On Pack interactions, as well as Add On Pack to Add On Pack interactions to keep the 'pond life' balanced and stable. A uniform set of rates can ensure compliance across the board and let the Zombies do their thing without getting pushed out.

 

A descriptive sentence for each Add On Pack will assist with letting down loaders know exactly what is to be expected without taking up to much space. Things are just getting to that stage where these can be addressed again, as just getting things out there was a priority and now it can be more about polishing the experience.

 

 

 

That standard did not work in A20.

 

That standard requires each entity to spawn with an equal probability, regardless of weapon type (e.g. prob="0.1" for the Pine Forest biome spawns). This causes a whole bunch of issues:

• There is always the same chance of spawning an NPC with an M60 as an NPC with a club.
• There is no difficulty scaling by gamestage or by biome. You meet the same entities in the pine forest as the wasteland; you meet the same entities in NPC POIs regardless of whether you are at gamestage 1 or gamestage 200.
• Packs with many entities (or that wield more weapons) overpower packs with fewer entities (or that wield fewer weapons).
• Installing more than a couple NPC packs means NPCs overspawn relative to vanilla entities in biomes.

That's why my own NPC packs never followed the Core standards, and why I wrote my own "progression" modlets for other peoples' NPC packs.

 

I sincerely hope you do not consider using the same standards for A21. I certainly will never use it for my own packs.

[arramus]

1 hour ago, khzmusik said:

 

That standard did not work in A20.

 

That standard requires each entity to spawn with an equal probability, regardless of weapon type (e.g. prob="0.1" for the Pine Forest biome spawns). This causes a whole bunch of issues:

• There is always the same chance of spawning an NPC with an M60 as an NPC with a club.
• There is no difficulty scaling by gamestage or by biome. You meet the same entities in the pine forest as the wasteland; you meet the same entities in NPC POIs regardless of whether you are at gamestage 1 or gamestage 200.
• Packs with many entities (or that wield more weapons) overpower packs with fewer entities (or that wield fewer weapons).
• Installing more than a couple NPC packs means NPCs overspawn relative to vanilla entities in biomes.

That's why my own NPC packs never followed the Core standards, and why I wrote my own "progression" modlets for other peoples' NPC packs.

 

I sincerely hope you do not consider using the same standards for A21. I certainly will never use it for my own packs.

 

With all due respect, please raise this discussion in a separate thread just for now and invite people to join it. At this time the key goals are:

 

- Add On Pack parity

- Some kind of balance for existing zombies since the Bandits, NPC Helpers, and Survivors occupy the same groups.

 

I appreciate what you are saying, and you have explained how it all works on a code level numerous times.
However, we also have to consider individual packs on a case by case basis since some users may only add one.

 

The previous poster has an issue where the Add On Packs are spawning at the same rate as zombies because they appear with identical probability. That is the issue at hand for the moment. The remainder can come later, and I will certainly read your own thread and the way you intend to assign values depending on weapon type and spawning balance.

[arramus]

7 hours ago, Fox said:

For example, after trying most of them out, I noticed that the raiders spawn in way too frequently and right when you start off with nothing too... giving you no chance against them (especially since some spawn in with rockets or AKs). I've already died 3 times to them and have yet to even encounter a single zombie. It's only day 2. Raiders should be an addition to the zombie based game, not a main focus.

I shall share 3 new entitygroups.xml files with you in private for the 1-DarksRaiderz, 1-DarksSoldierz, and 1-DarksCleanerz.

Simply replace the existing ones with the mod Config folder with the ones I provide.

The goal is very simple, to ensure you don't die without good and fair reason, see the Add On Pack characters as the exception rather than the rule, and to only see the rocket dude very rarely. This will ensure the zombie based feature remains prevalent and the Add On Pack is complementary and game enhancing.

[khzmusik]

13 hours ago, arramus said:

 

With all due respect, please raise this discussion in a separate thread just for now and invite people to join it.

 

EDIT: Removing stupid drama. Apologies.

 

...For everyone else:

 

I was in the middle of creating a standalone application that generated probabilities for NPCs (or other characters) in entity groups - both biome and the NPC Core POI groups. It would read from the NPC Pack's entityclasses file, calculate the "difficulty" of each NPC, and use that to generate the spawn probabilities for entity groups,

 

I'm going to continue work on this, but it will only be after I finished updating my own NPC packs. I'm really hoping the NPC Pack authors will use that program instead of just setting all their characters to the same probability (though obviously I can't force people to use it). If that happens I will let folks know.

Edited July 8, 2023 by khzmusik (see edit history)

[arramus]

16 minutes ago, khzmusik said:

 

With all due respect, I raised all of these concerns numerous times when I was on the team, and they were completely ignored. I had even created probabilities that didn't have these problems, after a couple years of work and testing, and immediately after I left you just discarded all of that work and went with what you had (which is IMHO objectively inferior).

This image relates to a post on April 19, 2022. It was actually addressed directly to you in order for us to discuss the probabilities that were shared. However, I was informed you had 'left the building'. As such, any attempt for discussion, amending things slightly, and moving forward ended there.

 

It shows entering a sleeper volume and being faced with 4 fall back entities for Harley, as well as a single instance of a Gypsy entity tucked behind a screen. Since there were 2 other Bandit Add on Packs being tested with the probabilities that were shared, there was clearly something not working out as these fall back entities were taking precedent and the Add on Pack entities were hardly getting a showing. I was very willing to discuss this issue at that time and even made an approach. Please don't start raising things again now when I was unable to approach at that very time and left to go with a solution that resolve this.

Feel free to continue in the Guppy's Discord where this kind of discussion best serves the creative side of things. Discussing it here will simply cause confusion for others.

[khzmusik]

11 hours ago, arramus said:

This image relates to a post on April 19, 2022. It was actually addressed directly to you in order for us to discuss the probabilities that were shared. However, I was informed you had 'left the building'. As such, any attempt for discussion, amending things slightly, and moving forward ended there.

 

EDIT: This is drama between me and Arramus. I should not have said anything. My apologies.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by khzmusik (see edit history)

[Fox]

I'd just like to add publically that I hope you guys find some way to resolve this drama and find a middle ground where you can all work together or separately in a way that can still benefit us players. Because all we players (who come to this modpack thread) care about in the end is making our 7d2d world a little more interesting with occasional NPCs of some kind to compliment the zombie based world. Since the game devs are taking forever to give them to us, these mods are all we've got and I'm grateful to anyone who wants to get involved in making them for us.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)