Has one of the patches fixed random gen?

[Colin248]

One of my biggest issues right now with the random generator as of alpha 19 (or was, its been a few patches since i played) is how it only spawns 3 of the large POI's and no more, thats all you get. (by that i mean, it selects 3, and spawns nothing but them on the map. it wont do any of the other large points of interest.) is this still the case? and if so, two questions:

 

1: @%$#ing why?

2: is there a fan made fix for this? 

[Kyonshi]

1) RWG is being overhauled and will be available at Alpha 20 launch.

2) The only way to go around this, in the meantime, is to either use NitroGen or KingGen.

[Maharin]

5 hours ago, Colin248 said:

2: is there a fan made fix for this? 

 

You could edit prefabs.xml in the map folder to add some directly, but this can be tricky.

 

Not sure where to update, if anywhere, for map generation.

[Colin248]

21 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

1) RWG is being overhauled and will be available at Alpha 20 launch.

2) The only way to go around this, in the meantime, is to either use NitroGen or KingGen.

that isnt a excuse. i am well aware RNG is being overhauled. however, there have been a number of patches between now and then. and they didn't address this rather simple issue? "your not a dev how can you know its simple" not the point. this bug has been in it since the begining of alpha 19. you seriously telling me its that tough to fix the game usein the same prefab over and over? 

 

as for kinggen, im playing with a couple of mods that add some stuff to rng. kinggen requires a bit of work to get it functioning with mods. lots of diddleing and fiddleing. (least from what i can tell) 

 

17 hours ago, Maharin said:

 

You could edit prefabs.xml in the map folder to add some directly, but this can be tricky.

 

Not sure where to update, if anywhere, for map generation.

 

thanks for the response, is this the only known way to address this issue? i know peeps will not find it as big of a issue, but still aggrivates me, hate doing the same T5 POI over and over because no others spawned. 

[Kyonshi]

On 6/22/2021 at 1:01 PM, Colin248 said:

that isnt a excuse. i am well aware RNG is being overhauled. however, there have been a number of patches between now and then. and they didn't address this rather simple issue? "your not a dev how can you know its simple" not the point. this bug has been in it since the begining of alpha 19. you seriously telling me its that tough to fix the game usein the same prefab over and over? 

 

as for kinggen, im playing with a couple of mods that add some stuff to rng. kinggen requires a bit of work to get it functioning with mods. lots of diddleing and fiddleing. (least from what i can tell) 

Buddy, you need to relax 🤨

 

I didnt give you excuses, i only gave you two formal explanations and solutions to your questions. Why are you having this attitude toward me? You may not like the answers but that is what it is.

 

Where did i tell you "you're not a dev how can you know its simple"? Nowhere. But while we're here, its not actually that simple.

 

You asked "@%$#ing why" is there the same 3 POIs repeating and its indeed a problem. But did you ever think for a minute, while actually being aware the RWG is being overhauled (why didnt you say so at first?), that these 3 repeating prefabs are most probably on the list of things being worked on in the overhaul as a whole package, and that it'll land as such when A20 will be released?

 

They're not gonna make a tiny patch for those 3 POIs alone, on the side, just for your pretty eyes... Like i said, relax and be patient.

 

Secondly, you asked what's the solution to that and the two map generators are two ways that make a decent job where the in-game RWG cant. I dont care if it causes you problems with mods, it is still the quickest way to circumvent the issue.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Kyonshi (see edit history)

[Colin248]

5 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

Buddy, you need to relax 🤨

 

I didnt give you excuses, i only gave you two formal explanations and solutions to your questions. Why are you having this attitude toward me? You may not like the answers but that is what it is.

 

Where did i tell you "you're not a dev how can you know its simple"? Nowhere. But while we're here, its not actually that simple.

 

You asked "@%$#ing why" is there the same 3 POIs repeating and its indeed a problem. But did you ever think for a minute, while actually being aware the RWG is being overhauled (why didnt you say so at first?), that these 3 repeating prefabs are most probably on the list of things being worked on in the overhaul as a whole package, and that it'll land as such when A20 will be released?

 

They're not gonna make a tiny patch for those 3 POIs alone, on the side, just for your pretty eyes... Like i said, relax and be patient.

 

Secondly, you asked what's the solution to that and the two map generators are two ways that make a decent job where the in-game RWG cant. I dont care if it causes you problems with mods, it is still the quickest way to circumvent the issue.

i didnt mean to be so brash, just tierd of people hand waveing problems with the game away. consistently. 

 

this community is way too forgiving of the devs. dont get me wrong, love the game. but... god dam. 

 

anyway, sorry for my aggressive tone. 

[meganoth]

40 minutes ago, Colin248 said:

i didnt mean to be so brash, just tierd of people hand waveing problems with the game away. consistently. 

 

this community is way too forgiving of the devs. dont get me wrong, love the game. but... god dam. 

 

anyway, sorry for my aggressive tone. 

 

I for example am very forgiving, even for forum standards 😉. But I tend to base my forgiveness on the size of the developer. TFP is not a one-man shop, sure, but neither is it a big developer where you can expect zero bugs. Oh wait...... 😁

 

Lets not forget this game is still in Early Access. It is your own decision to play an unfinished game in ALPHA state. Some other games misuse the EA process for some easy promotion and show up with a practically finished game, but that is not how EA was meant to be used.

 

And this is not to be confused with a service game where each new version is just an upgrade with new features to make everyone stick to the game. Alphas are just polished enough so they don't have real showstoppers. That is a concession to us players, normally alphas behind closed development are surely in much worse condition.

 

 

 

 

[Colin248]

10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

I for example am very forgiving, even for forum standards 😉. But I tend to base my forgiveness on the size of the developer. TFP is not a one-man shop, sure, but neither is it a big developer where you can expect zero bugs. Oh wait...... 😁

 

Lets not forget this game is still in Early Access. It is your own decision to play an unfinished game in ALPHA state. Some other games misuse the EA process for some easy promotion and show up with a practically finished game, but that is not how EA was meant to be used.

 

And this is not to be confused with a service game where each new version is just an upgrade with new features to make everyone stick to the game. Alphas are just polished enough so they don't have real showstoppers. That is a concession to us players, normally alphas behind closed development are surely in much worse condition.

 

 

 

 

its been years, with releases between each patch far and few between. even now its been... half a year? more or less? with tiny patches in between fixing the odd bits and bobs or adding a few little things. (the thing i find more aggravating is outright removeing things. rather then refineing them) 

 

ive seen pleanty of EA games come and go over the years. with small teams, or big. and none of them have been as lathargic as the fun pimps. now, in terms of EA,  there have been dickheads who cut and run when they got the cash, or failed attempts from devs who just bit off more then they could chew.  but they dont hide behind the title of EA forever. even empyrion had the dignity to drop the EA over there name and continue working on there title for time to come. that game in perticular is heavily flawed, but still has a sizeable fanbase for example. 

 

all im trying to say is, watching 7 days to die litteraly shamble accross the wasteland of gaming these years has been tiering. with the devs letting the arms drop off in the hope something better mutates in its place. the random gen issue above, again, i dont know if it could be simple to fix. but considering how two community efforts (kinggen and nitrogen) have been able to reliably have a good spawn rate for POIS it... does raise eyebrows. 

 

either way, this is getting way off topic. XD sorry. i got my anser and ive gone with kinggen for the time being now that i figured how to use it. just wish the peeps round here were alot firmer on the fun pimps is all. 

 

 

[meganoth]

38 minutes ago, Colin248 said:

its been years, with releases between each patch far and few between. even now its been... half a year? more or less? with tiny patches in between fixing the odd bits and bobs or adding a few little things. (the thing i find more aggravating is outright removeing things. rather then refineing them) 

 

ive seen pleanty of EA games come and go over the years. with small teams, or big. and none of them have been as lathargic as the fun pimps. now, in terms of EA,  there have been dickheads who cut and run when they got the cash, or failed attempts from devs who just bit off more then they could chew.  but they dont hide behind the title of EA forever. even empyrion had the dignity to drop the EA over there name and continue working on there title for time to come. that game in perticular is heavily flawed, but still has a sizeable fanbase for example. 

 

But I hear Empyrion still has a lot of bugs. So how is it different? They just dropped the EA label but are obviously far from a really polished state.

 

I have followed just  2 other EA games closely enough to see the progression in detail, Factorio and Slay the Spire. While Factorios development was an A++ effort in polishing, neither of those EA games seemed any faster than 7D2D when it came to new features. Fun fact: I remember that Factorios developers tried to overhaul fluid physics just like TFP and it got postponed indefinitely as well 😉.

 

If you have good examples of more speedy developers with a lot less bugs, ok, please tells us a few. As a programmer myself I KNOW first hand how slow development of complex systems is. I may be impatient as well, but I understand that everything looks easier from the outside than it is.

 

Quote

 

all im trying to say is, watching 7 days to die litteraly shamble accross the wasteland of gaming these years has been tiering. with the devs letting the arms drop off in the hope something better mutates in its place. the random gen issue above, again, i dont know if it could be simple to fix. but considering how two community efforts (kinggen and nitrogen) have been able to reliably have a good spawn rate for POIS it... does raise eyebrows. 

 

either way, this is getting way off topic. XD sorry. i got my anser and ive gone with kinggen for the time being now that i figured how to use it. just wish the peeps round here were alot firmer on the fun pimps is all. 

 

 

 

My opinion is that if players were protesting more on the forum TFP would not magically work faster (programming for example doesn't work that way, except if you accept to put up enough pressure to burn them out with lots of overtime and crunch). They just would reduce their time here in the forum.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Maharin]

Do what I do... blame Roland for everything.  He claims he's only a Super Moderator but we all know he's the one in charge.

[Boidster]

TIL: "We know X is broken and we plan to fix X in the next release" = "hand-waving problems away"

[Kyonshi]

@Colin248

I've read so much @%$#-talking about the Pimps since so long, i've seen it all. And everytime, the ones who bark the most are the ones who have the weakest arguments and forget about two things : context and discernment.

When you think you buy a game, you in fact buy the right to play that game. You dont own the game, its not yours, its not your intellectual property. But people act like they're part of the developing crew after they shugged out X$ for a game or worse, they think they're suddenly lead directors. So when you say people should be alot more firmer on the Pimps, that's disrespectful and presomptuous.

The Pimps made a game, they propose their product to us and we decide if we buy it or not. They dont owe nothing to anyone. Sure, the game has been made possible through Kickstarter but so far, the Pimps delivered and met the expectations. But nobody is better well-placed to dictate them what to do and what not, and certainly not because of butthurt feelings, than themselves.

If someone think they're better at the job than the devs and founders, then i challenge them to go in the studio, push the Pimps aside and show them how its supposed to be done. I challenge anyone to try to handle the millions of possible interactions a completely destructible voxel game may generate, and to do it flawlessly. Oh and with a random world generator, on top of that. So, discernment.

I dunno why some people flip the @%$# out because the many iterations of the game are called ''alphas''. Does the game, in its current state, looks like an alpha game to you? It looks way much more like a solid beta. But bottomline : what does it matter if its Alpha20, 21, 22, 574? The game is fully playable and stable enough so it doesnt severly hinder your experience. Is it perfect? Of course not. But i can name you AAA studios, with double and triple the assets the Pimps have, that sell you a game at 80-90$ and can't even bother to make it playable or bug-free on release day. Bethesda, Ubisoft, EA, @%$#ing CD Projekt Red!

The Pimps sell you the game for what, 20-30 bucks? How much more money did you put on it since 8 years? How much did you pay for the extra content they added over the years? Zero. They started with only 2 guys. Now they have about 50 people and the game looks gorgeous. In an ultra-competitive market, which is brutal and unforgiving (hello CD Projekt Red again), the Pimps managed to survive for so long and 7 Days is still the only voxel-game that offer a great experience with the features we know of. Oh and btw, they are working on another game in parallel with 7DtD. So take this in account when you accuse them of dragging behind. Context...

You also gotta consider that the creators of NitroGen and KingGen only have their software to take care of. This is nothing compared to the monumental task of handling the whole game like the TFP crew does. The fact that those two map generators are able to function rapidly doesnt mean the Pimps suck at it. Both generators exist because of 7DtD, not the other way around. And when you critisize them for not listening to the community, know that the in-game RWG overhaul is done with the collaboration of NitroGen's creator (or so i heard, correct me guys if im wrong). So the Pimps are giving a good ear to people who are able to put something constructive on the table. They certainly dont have to listen to crybabies who can only moan about the damn console issue and whatnot, without considering context and having a minimum of discernment.

Sorry for the long post, but thats the best way i can put it up.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Kyonshi (see edit history)