Game mechanic infection

[RipClaw]

Really?

 

 

 

The percentage add hurts most - the base subtract is negligible, the max health modifier at 3 makes it easy to die if hit - the max stamina modifier is negligible.

 

Also tested the infection stages in game with ZERO perks (go ahead and test these yourself):

 

I have already experienced all stages of an infection live in the game. I don't have to test anything anymore. At stage 3 my character couldn't even swing a stone axe twice in a row.

 

In addition, you forgot to include the armor itself in your assessments. This already deducts something from your stamina regeneration and it slows you down.

 

And you've left out the fact that perception and agility are limited. This also limits the skills that allow you to reload faster, do more damage with head hits, and stamina regeneration during sprint is also limited.

 

At infection stage 1, the only thing you can't do is spam attacks with heavy weapons.

 

Even the power attacks of medium-heavy weapons such as the axe or the club are no longer usable indefinitely.

 

Yes you do. You just have to wait a few seconds between melee hits.

 

Sure. I just tell the radioactive feral wight to wait until I have enough stamina again. And the radioactive cop next to him will be happy to wait his turn. Anything else ?

 

You can do that with slow zombies but kage was already above level 100 at the time and that was still in Alpha 17.1. Accordingly, he was mostly dealing with radioactive or feral zombies.

 

At infection stage 3, you can kite a horde on nightmare mode all night long.

 

And what do you dream of at night?

 

Agility is restricted during stage 3. Your stamina regeneration is not only hindered by the debuff itself but you also lose points from the skill which allows you more stamina regeneration during the sprint.

 

Yes, you can still run away from the zombies at nightmare speed, but you can't sprint forever with an infection. You always have to take a break and the zombies can catch up because they don't need a break.

With enough coffee one could try to compensate for the loss of stamina but I'm not sure if the coffee buff shows any effect at all during an infection.

 

Finally, mining and non-ranged combat are only affected in any meaningful degree. So you hardly have to "afk".

We are talking about the worst game debuff here... and I am in awe how people expect that its latter stages, after leaving it untreated, to not have any meaningful disadvantage.

 

Since perception is clearly limited in stage 3, your possibilities with firearms are also limited. You can't expect the zombies to hold still while you shoot them or wait until you reload. You could spray and pray but this will not help you all the time.

 

In theory, the whole thing may sound feasible, but the practice is something else after all. You are obviously assuming ideal conditions, but I am assuming realistic conditions. Therefore I am still of the opinion that a fight especially in a POI is not an option in case of an infection.

[RestInPieces]

I have already experienced all stages of an infection live in the game. I don't have to test anything anymore.

You already made several overly dramatic claims like having no stamina regeneration at stage 2. You DO need to test many things in-game apparently.

 

At stage 3 my character couldn't even swing a stone axe twice in a row.

Quite the tragedy. Seriously though, as I said in my previous post, stamina use multiplier is the only impactful way the penalty affects you - don't expect to go mining while infected, it is what is affected most.

 

In addition, you forgot to include the armor itself in your assessments. This already deducts something from your stamina regeneration.

 

They are not assessments. And should I also include the character being at the brink of starvation/dehydration as well? You know you can click the armor off. Won't be much of a problem if you are still Usain Bolt with infection3.

 

And you've left out the fact that perception and agility are limited. This also limits the skills that allow you to reload faster, do more damage with head hits, and stamina regeneration during sprint is also limited.

And what do you dream of at night?

 

Agility is restricted during stage 3. Your stamina regeneration is not only hindered by the debuff itself but you also lose points from the skill which allows you more stamina regeneration during the sprint.

Since perception is clearly limited in stage 3, your possibilities with firearms are also limited. You can't expect the zombies to hold still while you shoot them or wait until you reload.

tested the infection stages in game with ZERO perks

Tested. With. Zero. Perks. Also shows that "cardio" is not even needed in the first place, so guess how having -2 cardio ranks impacts you. Ranged combat is unhinged - unlike melee which is dependent on stamina. Costs you 2 perk ranks, but doesn't debilitate you in any way, which in practice means that if you really want to kill the horde while having the worst game debuff at its last stage at the same time, you will have to kite for a little longer than before.

 

 

Even the power attacks of medium-heavy weapons such as the axe or the club are no longer usable indefinitely.

 

Can't use power attacks indefinitely? Totally unplayable.

 

Sure. I just tell the radioactive feral wight to wait until I have enough stamina again. And the radioactive cop next to him will be happy to wait his turn. Anything else ?

Yes, you can still run away from the zombies at nightmare speed, but you can't sprint forever with an infection. You always have to take a break and the zombies can catch up because they don't need a break.

With enough coffee one could try to compensate for the loss of stamina but I'm not sure if the coffee buff shows any effect at all during an infection.

 

Don't have to tell them to wait, they can't reach you at nightmare speed, and with infection3 your stamina has enough regeneration to compensate. Just sprint every time they seem to reach you and jog the rest of the time. No coffees used.

 

You can do that with slow zombies but kage was already above level 100 at the time and that was still in Alpha 17.1. Accordingly, he was mostly dealing with radioactive or feral zombies.

In theory, the whole thing may sound feasible, but the practice is something else after all.

 

So? Everything at nightmare speed barely seems to have any speed difference. Radiated, ferals and whatnot. Launch the game, spawn various different zombies and see for yourself and don't judge by watching someone else playing through a stream. (Be sure to level first through the console before you spawn them or they won't run no matter which spawner you choose).

 

You are obviously assuming ideal conditions, but I am assuming realistic conditions.

 

Getting infected is borderline unrealistic with the default chances. How realistic is it to be hungry/thirsty PLUS infected with 150 max hunger/thirst? I mean I only play at 25% loot abundance and easily staying above the hungry/thristy debuff levels. I can't imagine how anyone would get these debuffs on default settings, unless they forget they exist or completely neglects them. And if they do, they shouldn't be able to get away with it consequence-free.

 

Therefore I am still of the opinion that a fight especially in a POI is not an option in case of an infection.

 

Any fight in a POI with walking zombies is a piece of cake if you are just a bit careful and pull them. Or are you expecting to play on "always run" or go to a POI at night, while infected, and still expect to clear the zombies in it? I never understood how people expect zero consequences and being able to do anything in every situation. That's the point of these debuffs in the first place. To make some situations harder or even impossible. They are not meant to be purely decorative.

[RipClaw]

You already made several overly dramatic claims like having no stamina regeneration at stage 2. You DO need to test many things in-game apparently.

 

I test a lot of things in the game but I always assume the worst case. For example, I test my bases against hordes that are many times stronger than what I would expect in a normal game.

 

That's something I've learned in my profession. Never test the ideal case and also never what you expect at load. Always test the worst case and always at least the triple load.

 

Quite the tragery. Seriously though, as I said in my previous post, stamina use multiplier is the only impactful way the penalty affects you - don't expect to go mining while infected, it is what is affected most.

 

And where do you see the difference to melee?

 

They are not assessments. And should I also include the character being at the brink of starvation/dehydration as well? You know you can click the armor off. Won't be much of a problem if you are still Usain Bolt with infection3.

 

And without armor, you go into battle with radioactive and feral zombies? Very realistic.

 

Tested. With. Zero. Perks. Also shows that "cardio" is not even needed in the first place, so guess how having -2 cardio ranks impacts you. Ranged combat is unhinged - unlike melee which is dependent on stamina. Costs you 2 perk ranks, but doesn't debilitate you in any way, which in practice means that if you really want to kill the horde while having the worst game debuff at its last stage at the same time, you will have to kite for a little longer than before.

 

And how did you test it? I bet under ideal conditions.

But you have hardly ever tested it in practice.

 

Can't use power attacks indefinitely? Totally unplayable.

 

Not unplayable but hindering enough not to want to get into a situation where you suddenly have to deal with several stronger zombies in melee.

 

Don't have to tell them to wait, they can't reach you at nightmare speed, and with infection3 your stamina has enough regeneration to compensate. Just sprint every time they seem to reach you and jog the rest of the time. No coffees used.

 

For one thing, it's not fighting, it's running away. There is a difference and on the other hand in the case of Kage it was not about the horde night but about a POI. More precisely the Shotgun Messiah factory.

 

It makes a difference if I have to deal with only a few zombies in the open or if I am in closed rooms. You can't target zombies 50 meters away but they are usually much closer.

 

So? Everything at nightmare speed barely seems to have any speed difference. Radiated, ferals and whatnot. Launch the game, spawn various different zombies and see for yourself and don't judge by watching someone else playing through a stream. (Be sure to level first through the console before you spawn them or they won't run no matter which spawner you choose).

 

And where are you spawning them? Of course out in the open and you also have control over which zombies appear and how many. So this test is not comparable to a real situation.

 

While a zombie appears rather slow out in the open space, the same zombie appears much faster in a closed space.

[RestInPieces]

I test a lot of things in the game but I always assume the worst case. For example, I test my bases against hordes that are many times stronger than what I would expect in a normal game.

 

That's something I've learned in my profession. Never test the ideal case and also never what you expect at load. Always test the worst case and always at least the triple load.

 

This is not a case where everything should work perfectly in a terrible situation. We are not testing some company product's fail-safes here. On the contrary they shouldn't! You shouldn't be able to kite a horde at max speed settings, much less with infection3, you shouldn't be able to neglect all your stats and get away with it with no consequences, you shouldn't be able to melee zombies in closed spaces whenever you want no matter your debuffs.

 

And where do you see the difference to melee?

 

In the XML you mean? The multiplier is the perc_add (e.g. 0.2 is 20%) from my understanding.

 

And without armor, you go into battle with radioactive and feral zombies? Very realistic.

 

Why would you go into melee battle with radioactive and feral zombies while having stage 3 infection in the first place? Especially when you can just outrun them. While shooting them. As said earlier, why expect to be able to do anything in any situation without consequences? Adapt.

 

And how did you test it? I bet under ideal conditions.

But you have hardly ever tested it in practice.

 

Infection 3 is hardly ideal conditions. This is what you claimed was debilitating in your first post, so it is what I tested. And as I said earlier, I am having no trouble staying over the hungry debuff threshold with 25% loot, being thirsty is clearly due to neglect. It doesn't make sense to test it in the worst conditions possible, while being hungry/thirsty etc, because if you neglect all that, the character shouldn't be able to kite a horde in the first place.

 

 

Not unplayable but hindering enough not to want to get into a situation where you suddenly have to deal with several stronger zombies in melee.

 

There's no "have to" if you can just shift and get away. Again you seem to expect to be able to always handle several stronger zombies in melee. Even while infected. I don't think you should expect such a thing.

 

For one thing, it's not fighting, it's running away. There is a difference and on the other hand in the case of Kage it was not about the horde night but about a POI. More precisely the Shotgun Messiah factory.

 

It makes a difference if I have to deal with only a few zombies in the open or if I am in closed rooms. You can't target zombies 50 meters away but they are usually much closer.

 

Again, you can *kite* them - meaning you can shift, pause, backpedal, shoot, repeat - perfectly possible even with nightmare speed. You shouldn't be able to clear a SM factory while infected (or in your "worst case scenario") with running zombies in the first place. Again, debuffs are not meant to be decorative.

 

And where are you spawning them? Of course out in the open and you also have control over which zombies appear and how many. So this test is not comparable to a real situation.

 

While a zombie appears rather slow in a free space, the same zombie appears much faster in a closed space.

 

It's too much to ask to not fight zombies while infected in a closed space, right? Is it forcing you into some playstyle you don't want? Like the "do-a-simple-thing-to-not-screw-up-playstyle"? God forbid that ever happens.

[Kage848]

To be clear, I'm with you on forced downtime. I was not advocating for that at all. I was preemptively defending Kage for using an afk tactic when faced with the current system since I recall the posts from the death penalty thread when people said they were opting out of playing while debuffed. Gameplay should be focused on keeping the player engaged. Be it low attention activities such as mining or high tension activities such as horde nights.

 

Let's get something strait right off the bat. I was not using an afk tactic. I was there at my keyboard on stream for like 12 mins talking to chat telling them how bad this system is and how its wasting my time.

 

I had the cure, I took the cure, twice and because of an awful % to work mechanic I was not cured.

 

Some will say i chose to wait it out. Wrong. When your infected it all but removes your stamina. You swing twice your out of stamina. I cant continue going through the shotgun messiah factory, facing nothing but irratiated zeds with only 2 swings and no stamina. Guns take stamina to aim as well.

 

The stamina debuff should have never been part of the infection mechanic. By all means make death the penalty. That way, with stamina we can make a mad dash to find pills for a cure. Because right now I would argue the game is virtually unplayable with that stamina debuff.

[RipClaw]

This is not a case where everything should work perfectly in a terrible situation. We are not testing some company product's fail-safes here. On the contrary they shouldn't! You shouldn't be able to kite a horde at max speed settings, much less with infection3, you shouldn't be able to neglect all your stats and get away with it with no consequences, you shouldn't be able to melee zombies in closed spaces whenever you want no matter your debuffs.

 

I'm not asking to be able to fight under the influence of infection. I simply say that I do not think it is an option and therefore it should not be done.

You were the one who said that you can fight with an infection. But that is exactly what I doubt.

 

In the XML you mean? The multiplier is the perc_add (e.g. 0.2 is 20%) from my understanding.

 

That's not necessarily said. There is no information about the unit. It can be 20% or 0.2 stamina/s.

 

Why would you go into melee battle with radioactive and feral zombies while having stage 3 infection in the first place? Especially when you can just outrun them. While shooting them. As said earlier, why expect to be able to do anything in any situation without consequences? Adapt.

 

I've said from the start that fighting is not an option with an infection. I don't expect that you can fight an infection. You claimed that Kage could have just gone on normally and that the game didn't force him to rest. And that's exactly what I always doubted.

 

Infection 3 is hardly ideal conditions. This is what you claimed was debilitating in your first post, so it is what I tested. And as I said earlier, I am having no trouble staying over the hungry debuff threshold with 25% loot, being thirsty is clearly due to neglect. It doesn't make sense to test it in the worst conditions possible, while being hungry/thirsty etc, because if you neglect all that, the character shouldn't be able to kite a horde in the first place.

 

I never wrote anything about a horde. You started here with the horde.

 

The ideal conditions that i wrote about is that you can prepare for everything if you test it. You will not be thrown into this situation. You can control everything.

 

You don't have all that in reality. You can infer reality from the experiment as if there were no difference. It is always the imperfections of reality that cause you problems in the end.

[RestInPieces]

I'm not asking to be able to fight under the influence of infection. I simply say that I do not think it is an option and therefore it should not be done.

You were the one who said that you can fight with an infection. But that is exactly what I doubt.

 

Sure. That's why you said the following after I suggested that you take off your armor and run away while infected:

And without armor, you go into battle with radioactive and feral zombies? Very realistic.

Not unplayable but hindering enough not to want to get into a situation where you suddenly have to deal with several stronger zombies in melee.

For one thing, it's not fighting, it's running away.

And then said that "realistic" gameplay conditions must involve closed spaces (while infected), as if you HAVE to keep going into POIs:

It makes a difference if I have to deal with only a few zombies in the open or if I am in closed rooms.

And where are you spawning them? Of course out in the open and you also have control over which zombies appear and how many. So this test is not comparable to a real situation.

While a zombie appears rather slow in a free space, the same zombie appears much faster in a closed space.

 

So yes, after the above I suggested that you lower your expectations. Because you clearly think you have to do all these things in "realistic" situations (or afk as an alternative, as you say below). As for me being the one saying that "you can fight" in general, I am being very specific about saying what you can do at each infection stage and whether it's melee or ranged, so don't bother generalizing and making me repeat what I already mentioned.

 

That's not necessarily said. There is no information about the unit. It can be 20% or 0.2 stamina/s.

I think it's safe to assume that perc_add means that it adds a percentage.

 

I've said from the start that fighting is not an option with an infection. I don't expect that you can fight an infection. You claimed that Kage could have just gone on normally and that the game didn't force him to rest. And that's exactly what I always doubted.

 

Hell no. It doesn't mean you have to rest if you can't mine/fight in melee. And gun aiming costs negligible stamina you can spare in infection3. Unless the infection has some kind of paralysis effect in your clients, you can back down from a fight, craft, build, search, loot etc. Coincidentally, everything that doesn't net you any xp. Might this be the reason you want to... rest?

 

I never wrote anything about a horde. You started here with the horde.

 

BM horde - zombies - night - day - doesn't matter anymore because of the options. Don't latch on to a word that does not make any difference in this context. What matters are the settings, which I explain in my previous post.

 

The ideal conditions for the test is that you can prepare for everything. You will not be thrown into this situation. You can control everything.

 

You don't have all that in reality. You can infer reality from the experiment as if there were no difference. It is always the imperfections of reality that cause you problems in the end.

 

What are you even talking about, what exactly can't you control in a "real" situation? You can't prevent yourself from exploring POIs and getting lost in tight spaces? Please elaborate.

[ktr]

It seems like part of the issue here might be that Kage was streaming? I could see where telling your viewers 'hey we're gonna go loot the Shotgun Messiah' and then getting an infection with RNG on the cure laughing at you would be frustrating. The smart move is, obviously, to not go into the SM with a stage 3 infection, but now you're trying to fill 'dead' time by doing small and relatively uninteresting tasks, instead of doing the fun thing for the viewers to see.

 

Looting the SM probably isn't impossible, but you'd have to be extremely careful and probably make heavy use of barbed wire. (This is, by the by, my favorite part of infections that I can't cure. It forces a variable that I can't ignore. However, I'm definitely not fond of the RNG on the medicine. Just make medicine scarce but a guaranteed cure.)

[Kage848]

It seems like part of the issue here might be that Kage was streaming? I could see where telling your viewers 'hey we're gonna go loot the Shotgun Messiah' and then getting an infection with RNG on the cure laughing at you would be frustrating. The smart move is, obviously, to not go into the SM with a stage 3 infection, but now you're trying to fill 'dead' time by doing small and relatively uninteresting tasks, instead of doing the fun thing for the viewers to see.

 

Looting the SM probably isn't impossible, but you'd have to be extremely careful and probably make heavy use of barbed wire. (This is, by the by, my favorite part of infections that I can't cure. It forces a variable that I can't ignore. However, I'm definitely not fond of the RNG on the medicine. Just make medicine scarce but a guaranteed cure.)

 

Well yea I was streaming atm. But tbh I think my viewers loved it. I was sitting there doing my Kage Rage thing and they were loling.

 

But i still think most people are not going to attempt to loot with no stamina. I think it's a problem.

 

Also The Fun Pimps would consider you using traps to help loot a building exploiting. Think I remember them talking about this in the past. Just some food for thought.

 

#NoStaminaDebuffonInfection!

[RestInPieces]

#NoStaminaDebuffonInfection!

 

and be the example for your viewers!

[ktr]

Well yea I was streaming atm. But tbh I think my viewers loved it. I was sitting there doing my Kage Rage thing and they were loling.

 

But i still think most people are not going to attempt to loot with no stamina. I think it's a problem.

 

Also The Fun Pimps would consider you using traps to help loot a building exploiting. Think I remember them talking about this in the past. Just some food for thought.

 

#NoStaminaDebuffonInfection!

 

Ah good! I'm glad (rage aside) you guys still had fun.

 

Most people might not, and I understand their caution there. I do like that infections aren't just insta-death and done. If that's the optimal route, I'd rather just see infections taken out of the game all together. That said, the most interesting thing about infections for me is that they make me revisit my plan at the time and then adjust. Just having it kill me would be a duller solution.

 

TFP might consider it exploiting, but I do not agree. Especially, if there's a small army of irradiated cops in that POI. As long as that's a possible scenario, I'm gonna bring a few things to up my chances of both surviving and the POI not getting blown up.

[webskorpion]

It may help if they changed that line for each buff you get to something like "You have been bitten" "you ate something bad" or something similar so you know what illness you are about to receive.

 

I think it's good if the player has to think for a while about what's wrong with him. Anyone who is attentive in the game knows it, because the effect "llness" occurs quickly.

 

If anything, I would only describe the symptoms, but not what happened (slight nausea, weakness, blurred vision, sweating, diarrhea, arduous breathing etc.). The diagnosis should be made by the player himself.

 

- - - - - - - - -

 

I have copied out the in-game descriptions here. I think they should be improved. For example, if a medicine does not have 100% chance of recovery then this should be unequivocally listed. If antibiotics protects against zombie infections, then this should be written. In the A16 you were protected by antibiotics from zombie infections, i liked that.

 

Infection 1: „You are infected. Use antibiotics, honey or herbal antibiotics to heal the infection. If left untreated you will get weaker and eventually die."

 

Infection 2: „You are infected. Use antibiotics to heal the infection.“

 

Infection 3: „You are dying from infection. Use antibiotics to heal the infection.“

 

- - - - - - - -

 

Honey: "Honey is one of mother nature's miracles. It gives you some energy, tastes great, and can help fight off early stages of infection and pneumonia.“

 

Herbal Antibiotics: „Herbal Antibiotics can cure infections, dysentery, food poisoning and pneumonia. They are less effective than regular Antibiotics but have fewer side effects.“

 

Antibiotics: "Antibiotics can cure infections, dysentery, food poisoning and pneumonia."

 

- - - - - - -

 

llness: „You feel something coming on but you're not quite sure what it is.“

 

llness: „You feel something coming on.“

 

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)

[ricp]

Is it normal for people to have illness that not only continues after you die but continues to increase in time limit?

 

I'm not sure where I picked it up but I got an illness, the "you feel something coming on" type. The time on it was 10 minutes or something similar, so I took some painkillers. I expected it to go away after time but the next time I looked the illness had jumped to 40 minutes. I took some honey thinking that'll surely resolve it. I gave it some time for the honey to work and a bit later I checked my stats and the illness had now jumped up to 2 hours! I even logged out and logged back in during that time several times and it remained at that level. I died (thanks to the gun auto-reloading when it comes empty rather than allowing you to swap between an empty and a fully loaded weapon - something I'd never noticed in A17 until now) and upon respawn the illness was still there and in fact it had now jumped way up to 3 hours.

 

As I say it's not having a direct effect on me, but it's very annoying to have something that I seem incapable of removing which in turn increases in time length rather than reducing in it.

 

Edited to add:

 

( direct link - https://i.imgur.com/yDFK7Y3.jpg )

 

Joy oh joy... it's now at 4 hours.

[ktr]

Is it normal for people to have illness that not only continues after you die but continues to increase in time limit?

 

I'm not sure where I picked it up but I got an illness, the "you feel something coming on" type. The time on it was 10 minutes or something similar, so I took some painkillers. I expected it to go away after time but the next time I looked the illness had jumped to 40 minutes. I took some honey thinking that'll surely resolve it. I gave it some time for the honey to work and a bit later I checked my stats and the illness had now jumped up to 2 hours! I even logged out and logged back in during that time several times and it remained at that level. I died (thanks to the gun auto-reloading when it comes empty rather than allowing you to swap between an empty and a fully loaded weapon - something I'd never noticed in A17 until now) and upon respawn the illness was still there and in fact it had now jumped way up to 3 hours.

 

As I say it's not having a direct effect on me, but it's very annoying to have something that I seem incapable of removing which in turn increases in time length rather than reducing in it.

 

I've had this happen at least twice after dying. It never developed into an illness and didn't last for hours.

[webskorpion]

Is it normal for people to have illness that not only continues after you die but continues to increase in time limit? ...

 

Permanent illness status

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?106934-Permanent-illness-status

[RipClaw]

Sure. That's why you said the following after I suggested that you take off your armor and run away while infected:

 

You wrote something about "Usain Bolt". English is not my mother tongue. Therefore I did not understand the reference

I assumed that you think that taking off the amor ist enough that you can meele.

 

And then said that "realistic" gameplay conditions must involve closed spaces (while infected), as if you HAVE to keep going into POIs:

 

When is the most likely situation that you will get infected? Certainly not when you're sitting in your base. The most likely situation where this happens is when you're in a POI and you get a hit from a zombie.

 

So it's the most realistic scenario for me.

And it is also the situation in which Kage found himself.

 

So yes, after the above I suggested that you lower your expectations. Because you clearly think you have to do all these things in "realistic" situations (or afk as an alternative, as you say below). As for me being the one saying that "you can fight" in general, I am being very specific about saying what you can do at each infection stage and whether it's melee or ranged, so don't bother generalizing and making me repeat what I already mentioned.

 

Maybe I should explain what the situation here was like so that you could get a clearer picture of the possibilities Kage had. He just looted the Shotgun Messiah factory and got infected. The factory is far away from his base. Accordingly he had the choice to wait, drive home or continue. He waited and rested until the infection was over and the continued to loot the building.

 

As far as ranged combat is concerned, we should first clarify what situations you are referring to. If you only assume that you will kill a target from a safe distance then it is clear why you consider it a valid option for an infection.

 

However, this cannot be applied directly to distance fighting in a POI. Here you have to deal with narrow spaces and you have to flee occasionally if you have to deal with too many zombies. But for this you want to be able to sprint which is very limited at level 3 of an infection.

 

Hell no. It doesn't mean you have to rest if you can't mine/fight in melee. And gun aiming costs negligible stamina you can spare in infection3. Unless the infection has some kind of paralysis effect in your clients, you can back down from a fight, craft, build, search, loot etc. Coincidentally, everything that doesn't net you any xp. Might this be the reason you want to... rest?

 

Crafting or building are options that are available when you are at your base, and for me they are synonymous with rest as opposed to fighting.

 

What are you even talking about, what exactly can't you control in a "real" situation? You can't prevent yourself from exploring POIs and getting lost in tight spaces? Please elaborate.

 

For example, if I'm testing if melee is an option if I have a level 1 or 2 infection, you usually do that by taking a few zombies out of debug mode and fighting them on the open air. If you then transfer this to a real situation without considering that you tested it under ideal conditions, it can lead to a result that you get killed because you misjudged the situation.

 

Therefore I would always be careful with the statement what one can do and what not only on the basis of tests that have taken place under controlled conditions.

[ricp]

I've had this happen at least twice after dying. It never developed into an illness and didn't last for hours.

 

Permanent illness status

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?106934-Permanent-illness-status

 

Thanks guys, I guess I'll just need to wait. Normally these sorts of "player bugs" can be resolved by death.

[RestInPieces]

You wrote something about "Usain Bolt". English is not my mother tongue. Therefore I did not understand the reference

I assumed that you think that taking off the amor ist enough that you can meele.

 

Fair enough.

 

When is the most likely situation that you will get infected? Certainly not when you're sitting in your base. The most likely situation where this happens is when you're in a POI and you get a hit from a zombie.

 

So it's the most realistic scenario for me.

And it is also the situation in which Kage found himself.

 

Maybe I should explain what the situation here was like so that you could get a clearer picture of the possibilities Kage had. He just looted the Shotgun Messiah factory and got infected. The factory is far away from his base. Accordingly he had the choice to wait, drive home or continue. He waited and rested until the infection was over and the continued to loot the building.

 

If that's the reason you were telling me that what I tested was not legitimate because the weren't made in "realistic" situations, it is pretty much irrelevant because everything was tested with running zombies on nightmare speed (I was clear about that). The player can easily control whether he will be outside or inside an unexplored POI e.g. at night, when zombies start running, on default settings.

 

As far as ranged combat is concerned, we should first clarify what situations you are referring to. If you only assume that you will kill a target from a safe distance then it is clear why you consider it a valid option for an infection.

 

However, this cannot be applied directly to distance fighting in a POI. Here you have to deal with narrow spaces and you have to flee occasionally if you have to deal with too many zombies. But for this you want to be able to sprint which is very limited at level 3 of an infection.

 

But even with infection 3 and closed spaces you can easily kite anything as long as it's walking. They are way slower than you and you rarely have to sprint and your stamina regenerates, so not sure what is your point. If zombies start running, you should not be in that POI and if zombies always run etc, then the game shouldn't balance infection according to extreme settings.

 

Crafting or building are options that are available when you are at your base, and for me they are synonymous with rest as opposed to fighting.

 

When you said "rest" I assumed you meant afk, because you used it for Kage afking as well, not anything else other than fighting.

 

For example, if I'm testing if melee is an option if I have a level 1 or 2 infection, you usually do that by taking a few zombies out of debug mode and fighting them on the open air. If you then transfer this to a real situation without considering that you tested it under ideal conditions, it can lead to a result that you get killed because you misjudged the situation.

 

Therefore I would always be careful with the statement what one can do and what not only on the basis of tests that have taken place under controlled conditions.

 

What you are saying about controlled conditions is utterly meaningless:

 

-You can always run to safety or open air. Even with infection 3. This means that no situation is "not controlled".

 

-You can adapt! Use ranged.

 

-If you STILL want to melee some zombies for some reason while being hungry/thirsty, wearing heavy armor, being infected, etc, as you said in the previous posts AND misjudge a situation on top of that then you simply are doing something wrong and consequences, like getting killed, should follow, because you practically ignore every game mechanic and try to suicide. So what's your point? Should I have tested whether you can die if you try really, really hard?

 

 

 

You are trying to argue about infection and all these posts were about "what if you are hungry/thirsty too?", "what if you wear heavy armor too?", "what if you melee?", "what if you are in a closed space and panic?", "what if you misjudge a situation and hug a zombie by mistake?", "what if you missclick and eat broken glass?". A grand waste of time of a discussion.

[Kage848]

The point is the game grinds to a halt with the infection stamina drain. Melee takes stamina, aiming guns takes stamina, fighting irratiated ferals takes stamina. Mining, tree cutting, it all takes stamina.

 

Can I mine for 15 mins while I wait for the infection to pass with no stamina? Yea, guess I could. Is it still a time wasting mechanic, yes it is. Not challeging and certainly not fun.

 

If they just make the pills cure the way there supposed to I could get over it. But right now it blows.

[Khulkhuum]

I think the point of these recent discussions is you are looking at things from different perspectives.

 

Firstly, we all know that infection influences stamina drain. Some could say that it only makes it difficult as you have to stop every few seconds when mining or fighting. Others will say that it stops you from doing anything, because they don't want to take a breather like that and it feels like you can't do anything.

 

Secondly, i would go as far as say that if you didn't get hit, you wouldn't have an infection. Imagine that as a consequence of your own mistake. We could dissect where the line is crossed between player mistake and not being prepared (from not carrying any infection cures, fighting in inappropriate places to going melee when you're not yet good enough and constantly get hit), but the point of this thread is not to argue, but suggest an update to the current infection debuffs and curing.

 

Thirdly, you all have to take into account that some people simply prefer playing in a specific style, even though sometimes it doesn't work as well as they think it does. I'm definitely guilty of this in various games and from time to time have to rearrange my thinking/fighting patterns. One could point out a mistake you're doing in how you handle things, but like any other suggestion you can't be mad that they didn't take it into account. If i want to get slaughtered time and time again in Bloodborne because i picked up a mediocre weapon and stick with it no matter what, i'm bound to be laughed at or hit on the head for being stupid and not adapting.

 

Remember about on particular thing though. Taking into account someones suggestion is only for me, noone else. If i don't take it to heart (for whatever reason), i have to bear consequences, noone else.

[RestInPieces]

I think the point of these recent discussions is you are looking at things from different perspectives.

 

Firstly, we all know that infection influences stamina drain. Some could say that it only makes it difficult as you have to stop every few seconds when mining or fighting. Others will say that it stops you from doing anything, because they don't want to take a breather like that and it feels like you can't do anything.

 

I don't think it's a matter of perspective in this case. We have gotten in the habbit of dismissing everything as a matter of perspective when we actually have all facts available and can use common sense - which by definition is largely objective otherwise it wouldn't be called common.

 

Infection with its stamina multiplier makes it impossible to mine even with non-power attacks for example. I don't think anyone sane enough would suggest that one could stop every few seconds and stare at the stone/trunk. I think it's safe to assume that common sense dictates that someone can't mine.

 

But fighting? Aiming with weapons doesn't consume enough stamina to hinder you with infection 3 - unless you are permanently on aim mode, it will outregenerate your stamina consumption. Infection 1-2 doesn't affect you at all when ranged. If, for some reason, you choose to melee and have infection 1 without melee perks, clearing a POI with walking zombies is barely slowed down, unless one expects to spam power attacks in the zombies face. With perks (which you should have if you want to melee), the difference is even smaller. Higher levels of infection definitely make melee way more sluggish and I wouldn't blame anyone saying it is impossible. But how can ranged fighting impossible? Especially when you just need to clear a POI - not defend against a BM wave.

 

If mining was 100% of the game, then I would agree that infection *forces* you to afk. But how could this be a matter of perspective in any other occasion? Some don't regard any activity that doesn't give them experience as anything meaningful - and I can't blame them, since activities are barely dictated by survival atm. And it's the same with the initial stamina grievances - some others just want stamina to be enough so that they can forget it exists. Now that is a preference,which I don't agree with, but still respect. It's the overly dramatic hyperboles that I can't stand.