Roland

My point is that currently player choice is a large governing factor on whether looting and rewards outpace crafting. Sure, there is some balancing that still needs to be done but to guarantee that crafting stays ahead it will require new rules and limits. Since these rules and limits would push the game into the way I already choose to play, it isn’t going to affect me but it will affect others.

Then why did you just make my point for me? Putting a limit on quests and barriers to the tougher biomes is exactly in line with those examples and is likely what TFP will do if they feel that players are going to ruin the balance by questing too frequently or rushing into higher Lootstage areas with abandon. The devs want there to be better loot in the wasteland and better rewards for higher tier quests. So the fact that anyone can get better loot than they can craft by rushing the quests and rushing to the wasteland will always be an option that cannot be stopped except by forcing limits to end those options that keep resulting in people being angry that they find/receive better loot than they can craft. Lethal heat, cold, and radiation are all ways to keep players in the forest until they obtain the needed gear to open those gates. “Sorry, but I have no more jobs available today” is a way to slow players down from progressing up the quest tiers. Some people will appreciate those changes but some will see them as thinly veiled attacks on the sandbox nature of the game. I’m fine with whatever but I hope the people who do rush the quests and exploit the world Lootstage bonuses and who take trader and looting perks and then complain that they always get better stuff than they can craft understand what they are asking for: Less sandbox and more rules.

We just need a wrist rocket added so we can have: Vulture vs Wrist Rocket is coolness vs nerdy.

I can think of a few reasons: 1) The job of asking for fixes to vanilla is already being done by several other vocal people. 2) Playing a "fix" voluntarily often gives people more perspective about that change than simply talking about it. 3) It's a fun challenge to play the game in alternative ways and if you can do it voluntarily without actually needing to mod it. there is a lot less effort and learning involved. 4) You can play a "fix" voluntarily while waiting for the "fix" to be implemented officially. 5) A normal player suggesting voluntary "fixes" to vanilla in no way threatens or hurts the chances that the devs will "fix" vanilla themselves so why not?

I wasn't suggesting anyone do what I do, I was just sharing my own playstyle when I play solo. When I play with my fam we do three quests per day since we each take one and do them together and, yes, we progress a lot faster because of that. Also, I said 60 days or less but I usually play 40 minute days when I play solo but 60 minute days with my family. My main point is that the game is great right now because players can decide how frequently they quest and most players have fun with their decision. We don't need the developers to force a limit on quests because of the small subset of players who hate the results of spamming quests but lack the will-power and mindfulness to limit themselves on quests. Even with more balancing there will always be a way to stretch things if there is no hard boundary in place. So people who are calling for a perfect crafting progression that can't possibly be overwhelmed by looting and trading are actually calling for that as a forced play-style.

The way I play the game results in mostly the experience that I like. That’s why I play it that way. For example: I usually do about one quest per day (60 minute days or less) and mix in other tasks and objectives such as harvesting materials for building and looting nearby POIs to find a cooking pot and other materials for cloth armor, a dew collector, and hunting for meat. I usually stick to the forest until a trader quest takes me into a new biome. “Power Grinding” is a term I use to mean completing quests as quickly as possible to the exclusion of all else for the purpose of rapidly moving up the quest tiers to get to the best rewards as soon as possible. There is nothing wrong with that playstyle as long as it results in fun for the person playing that way. When I play where I take roughly a job per day, I find that I do craft a lot of things before I find or am offered better as a reward. I’d like things to be balanced a bit more towards crafting but it feels pretty good. There’s also nothing wrong with going into a tougher biome early on to get better loot if that’s what you want. I’m not calling on anyone to stop doing that stuff if it brings them fun and satisfaction. When I play the way I described, my focus is on living a natural sort of life within the game world and it is fun for me to play that way even if there are faster methods of earning dukes and getting top tier gear, etc. I often don’t spend skill points until I’ve built up 4-5 of them because it isn’t my first focus. I’m not saying everyone should play my way but it is a good way to be more of a crafting player.

I'm not defending the triggers but I would like to understand this statement. There is no achievement to be earned by 100% stealthing a POI. There is no punishment if you don't and no reward if you do. So how does stepping onto the roof into an ambush make the entire trip up previous to that mean nothing? The way I see it you were able to enjoy stealth gameplay for 95% of the entire trip which means it was meaningful and you were enjoying the benefits of your perks and that playstyle. You got to play that way for most of the trip. Now if there were bonus rewards for remaining in stealth for the entire 100% and an ambush trigger made accomplishing that impossible then I would be in complete agreement that the rooftop made your entire stealth trip meaningless since you would fail those bonuses. If you were only able to stealth for less than 50% of your trip I could see that as wasted points on stealth since in less than half of every case you were getting no benefit from your points. But you stealth-tripped the whole thing until the roof. You got majority benefit by a huge margin. What if the ambush had happened at the start of the quest when you first entered and then after cleaning that up the whole rest of the POI was able to be finished through stealth? Would the 5% ambushing at the beginning feel better than the 5% ambushing at the end? Again, I agree completely that there needs to be some adjustments applied to stealth and triggers and spawn volumes in general. But I think it is also clear that the developers aren't interested in creating POIs that can be stealthed 100% and that they want a few ambush situations to mix things up. But as long as they don't add rewards or penalties dependent upon stealthing an entire quest I don't see why if your stealth doesn't work in a couple of situations it invalidates stealth for all situations. I agree with this. But nobody is going to agree on the definition of "over-use" haha

You must know that I’m talking about frequency and intensity of those activities and so it makes me wonder what your agenda is in your obvious misrepresentation. I didn’t say avoid doing doing those activities at all. I said avoid power grinding or going into high Lootstage biomes so early if you want to craft. You’re basically pleading with the developers to force a limit on daily questing and gating the biomes to forcibly prevent players from going there until certain conditions are met. No matter how much balance is applied, as long as players have the freedom to go anywhere and spam anything from day 1 there will always be an optimization path that such people will claim is the only successful way to play. Hope you’re happy if the devs do decide to protect optimizers from themselves. So far they’ve been fine with letting people choose how they play.

Nobody is telling anyone to ignore anything if they don’t want to. There are plenty of players who skip all the crafting and just use the trader and are happy with it. There are players who go straight to the wasteland and loot high level gear and are very pleased with that. There are also players who stick to the forest and minimize their quests and who craft most of their stuff and who are happy. It appears that the only people who are unhappy are those who hate getting gear above what they can craft but can’t help themselves from doing activities that skip the crafting progression anyway and so they need the game to limit them forcibly from playing in a way that will ruin their fun. The end of this balancing road that people are asking for is going to be more restrictions that result in less sandbox elements— Just so everyone understands what is necessary in order to stop the few players who lack the impulse control to not optimize the fun out of the game for themselves….

Good point. No matter how they tip the balance either toward crafting or toward acquiring, someone isn't going to be happy-- especially since they want both pathways to be an option in the game.

Okay, but this isn't really a balance issue. Even once they balance everything perfectly a quick jaunt into a tougher biome is going to net you loot at a higher lootstage. That is the way the game is designed and that is player choice. If you are a player who WANTS to craft your own gear and ENJOYS a slow progression, then don't make those choices. Daring Adventurer, Lucky Looter, Snow, Wasteland, and Desert biomes are all things you can ignore if you don't want the stuff you find and buy to be way beyond what you can craft. For people who love to buy great stuff and gain great rewards and find amazing loot, those perks and going into biomes you aren't suited for are fun. Things like this will ALWAYS be in the game because it allows players to choose how they want to play. If you go into the wasteland and come back with great loot beyond what you can craft then that is what you want.

I don’t see it as wanting to make it tougher so much as wanting gear to be something we mostly craft instead of mostly buy or find. Right now finding or buying or being rewarded with something beyond what you can craft kind of takes the wind out of your sails if you like crafting your own stuff. When you just need a few more magazines to be able to craft a higher tier than you have it makes finding those magazines exciting. When you need 16 more magazines just to match what the trader gave you then it makes it much less exciting.

The other problem is non perked weapons. If I’m not perked into Machine guns but the trader gives me a blue M60 that would still be a really nice secondary weapon to my perked weapon that I’d likely not be able to craft on my own.

My fix would be that the trader only ever gives quality one gear as rewards. That way you can take it and use it if it is better than what you can craft but eventually you’d be taking it to scrap it to get parts because you can craft better. Either that or the trader only ever deals in parts.

Why are there no sandals in the game?

That he actually created that POI and that particular gas station canopy and secretly increased the hp of the blocks supporting it to 100k….

That’s because God uses Tier10 weapons and ammo.

Most video game worlds actually. Which is why these sorts of sketches are funny.

I'm writing a note to the devs right now to reverse YOUR controls for A22...

Just curious and interested in reading/participating in a conversation regarding this topic. Feel free to qualify or explain how you answered below-- especially if nothing listed seems to apply to you at all.

I think this attitude along with a recognition that the game is always in a changeable state is the safest way to continue to enjoy it even after 10 years of development-- not just in regard to a story but for all features in the game. That's not to say that people who approach this whole development process in this way don't get disappointed by specific updates to the game at times but they tend to adjust their expectations and adapt their play to the new conditions and often end up enjoying the game in its new iteration at least as much as they did the old. And they can always revisit the old for the sake of nostalgia thanks to the beta versions TFP provides. Tidbits and pieces of potential story have been added to various updates in the past and will continue to make their way until the main story quest chain is eventually added.

Where's the problem then? If players are impatient for expansionary content and tired of the devs developing the base game then they can go to mods for that expanded content. Just because TFP is developing the 1.0 version and you want the 1.5 or even 2.0 version because you've fully explored what we already have doesn't mean that it is a problem. We have over 90k concurrent players playing the game this weekend. There is no problem. Plenty of people are still willing to play and test the basic version and there are mods for people that want an expanded game experience. Sounds like all bases are covered until TFP, themselves, turn their own focus to expansionary updates.

It’s not so much a matter of players and TFP wanting different things but a matter of having different priorities. TFP does want to release updates that are expansionary but until the basic game is finished the updates will continue to be more developmental. This means there will be a mixture of some new features mixed with a lot of polishing and reworking of existing features. All of those things on your player desires list are things that TFP plans to do. Some of those like bandits are very likely going to arrive in A22 and others may not show up until after the gold release.

Sounds like you need to clean your files OP. Your description is exactly like someone with A20 code still existing. When you load the game choose the game launcher option and then use the clean tool and select all maps and saves.