Help Wanted

[LowfDog]

The developers are not going to be able to please everyone. They will create the game they want and if it turns out to not be fun for long term playing for some people they will either move on or mod it...like every other game in existence.

 

Thanks for spelling out your preferences. It's good to know what people want. At the end of the day the developers will make a decision and it will either align with your desires or it won't and then you will have to decide what to do. Most likely, if you never want to experience any zombies that can run you will need to play with a mod that removes the running from ferals. It is doubtful that the vanilla game will go as far as you are desiring because the devs want running feral zombies.

 

Joel is balancing the player speed vs zombie and dog running speeds to make sure it isn't impossible to survive nor is it automatically guaranteed that you will escape. It needs to be thrilling and risky and fear inducing but also doable.

 

I think what concerns some players is that the people who appear making the decisions on game balance also don't appear to be particularly good at the game.

 

It makes zero sense to be shooting arrows at zombies who are literally (note correct usage of the word) five feet away, yet this is the game play we see in videos time and time again.

 

In A16, my play group lets screamers do their thing, because the chaos is fun and challenging, although the ridiculous zombies spazzing out and running in circles makes melee nigh impossible. In those cases your options are a) time it perfectly on intercept while the zed is still rushing you (doable with enough practice), b) switch to shotgun for a point blank decapitation, c) have a friend intercept it laterally and take it out, or d) have a sniper take out the offending runner from a distance.

 

We could easily take out the screamers before they ever get a chance to yell, but that wouldn't be as fun. Unfortunately, if zombies have no loot and can't be harvested for their fat, bones, and raw meat, there's absolutely no incentive to kill them, no reason to challenge ourselves by pushing the limits of gameplay, and the result is less fun had by all.

 

The way current A17 previews look, melee is getting nerfed to the point where ranged fights will be the only feasible way to fight and underground facilities will only encourage zombies to swiss cheese the terrain, which is incidentally the reason why downward attacks got taken out in the first place. Keep in mind my group makes underground facilities to do large scale mining and for fun public works projects like garages, not because we're hiding from zombies. Horde nights are spent above ground, because that's where the fun is.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to A17 and I'm going to hope for the best. But I do worry that people who don't know how to design bases are going to force the gameplay in a direction that's less fun. Recently, we've switched from converting POIs to building our bases from scratch, which is good because-- if the POI resets become a reality, it won't be feasible to convert one into a base.

 

Which is sad, because there's a certain amount of roleplay fun from converting an old house or a Shamway into a medieval fortress. Again, this is another example of design forcing a certain style of play, which is never good in a game whose main charm is how open-ended it is.

[Roland]

Hey Lowf...you haven't been around much lately and we are at the point in the space time continuum that you time traveled to long ago. So let me give you some comfort to take back with you to those poor slobs of a few years ago who are waiting for your report...

 

I think what concerns some players is that the people who appear making the decisions on game balance also don't appear to be particularly good at the game.

 

People? You've seen gameplay video from two people: Madmole and myself. Madmole was rusty but he knows how to play and gets back up to speed once he starts playing a lot. I'm awesome, of course, but don't make any decisions. Now the people you don't see videos from are the team of internal testers and the other developers who are all adept at the game and who all give input and feedback about gameplay and balance. The game is in good hands.

 

It makes zero sense to be shooting arrows at zombies who are literally (note correct usage of the word) five feet away, yet this is the game play we see in videos time and time again.

 

Sorry but I'm going to have to correct you on the literally usage. The zombies could be literally five feet away but they are most probably literally going to be 2 or 3 meters away because each block in the world is a meter instead of a foot. I also want to say that it makes the most sense to shoot zombies from whatever distance allows you to hit them with a hastily fashioned wood and grass fiber bow with stone headed arrows. I shoot zombies up close and from far away. I like up close because then I can pull the arrow out of the zombie's head and shoot him again with the same arrow. That never gets old. Now please don't go back and tell us about sticky and retrievable arrows because it is supposed to be a secret until just a couple of months ago.

 

In A16, my play group lets screamers do their thing, because the chaos is fun and challenging, although the ridiculous zombies spazzing out and running in circles makes melee nigh impossible. In those cases your options are a) time it perfectly on intercept while the zed is still rushing you (doable with enough practice), b) switch to shotgun for a point blank decapitation, c) have a friend intercept it laterally and take it out, or d) have a sniper take out the offending runner from a distance.

 

We could easily take out the screamers before they ever get a chance to yell, but that wouldn't be as fun. Unfortunately, if zombies have no loot and can't be harvested for their fat, bones, and raw meat, there's absolutely no incentive to kill them, no reason to challenge ourselves by pushing the limits of gameplay, and the result is less fun had by all.

 

I can tell you that your abc and d of having fun will be viable in A17 and even better than A16 because of the new pathing. As for loot, I'm glad I was able to catch you before taking your time machine back to the past because that is just a horrible misunderstanding. I have been assured that there will be zombie loot. It just won't be removed from zombie body containers like before. Whew....imagine if you had gone back to 2015 and said that the zombies of the future would have no loot? They might have burned you as a witch or something.

 

The way current A17 previews look, melee is getting nerfed to the point where ranged fights will be the only feasible way to fight and underground facilities will only encourage zombies to swiss cheese the terrain, which is incidentally the reason why downward attacks got taken out in the first place. Keep in mind my group makes underground facilities to do large scale mining and for fun public works projects like garages, not because we're hiding from zombies. Horde nights are spent above ground, because that's where the fun is.

 

I honestly believe that melee is better in A17 than ever before. It is not nerfed at all. There is a new power attack with perks that can boost it to Godlike levels of power. It is still easy to avoid getting hit when smacking a zed around but more risk that they might get one off on you. I really like the way melee feels now even on Day 1 and after you've leveled up some perks in that area you will be a zombie destroying machine. As for swiss cheese....as long as you don't stay underground when you can be detected they won't dig to get you. Since you find it fun to come up topside to handle zombies there should be no problems. Tell them that in 2015 with a big smile--> "No Problems!"

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to A17 and I'm going to hope for the best. But I do worry that people who don't know how to design bases are going to force the gameplay in a direction that's less fun. Recently, we've switched from converting POIs to building our bases from scratch, which is good because-- if the POI resets become a reality, it won't be feasible to convert one into a base.

 

Which is sad, because there's a certain amount of roleplay fun from converting an old house or a Shamway into a medieval fortress. Again, this is another example of design forcing a certain style of play, which is never good in a game whose main charm is how open-ended it is.

 

I know you are. I can still remember the excitement in your post when you wooshed back to us from the future to tell us all about A17. Keep that excitement alive because it is justified. Prime has assured us that his goal is to prevent quests from resetting anyone's POI converted base. I'm not sure how he's going to do it but this IS the future after all.

 

Now start getting ready to start that thread you will have has had written!

[Benjiro]

Which is sad, because there's a certain amount of roleplay fun from converting an old house or a Shamway into a medieval fortress. Again, this is another example of design forcing a certain style of play, which is never good in a game whose main charm is how open-ended it is.

 

This is off-topic but its how i feel about 7D2D more and more. It feels like your forced into a specific game style.

 

For me 7D2D was always about building your own fortress, surviving the zombie and exploring for resources. As the danger increased, you put more time into getting better defenses, slowly got up to more easy ways to collect resources etc. I loved being self sufficient but with the focus on dungeons for the loot, you know where this is going.

 

The current move seems to be heavily flavored by MMORPG style gameplay. A focus on Dungeons, exploring to get the good "loot", get your Crystal of Might so you can upgrade your pickaxe. Weapon attachments make sense (silencer, scopem ...), pickaxe attachments are ridiculous idea. Its a almost exact rip from MMORPG games that use upgrades and the next big thing to keep things interesting.

 

Where as i rather see 7D2D adding actual content. More complex crafting like some of the mods do ( but mods can only do so much because they run into issues with the 7D2D engine ), more content, interesting goals ( colony development ), some dungeon houses fine but not having every house reworked into a dungeon house, no magic bullet sponge boss zombies ( if you do that, then make a real separate mutated zombie ), no federal rehash zombies...

 

Now we have Feral, Boss and Radiated zombies, that are simply rehashed assets like you have in MMORPG games where have a gray monster, a purple monster, a glowing monster... with more HP and damage. So my comparison that 7D2D is more and more like a MMORPG is not that far off. Mods even use more assets like Spiders, Gorillas, etc ...

 

The whole argument from the devs in the past that they only want local animals that exitst in that part of the US, does not hold a lot of meaning when we get Feral, Boss and Radiated zombies instead. I am fairly sure that we are not going to see spitting cops in a Zombie apocalypse

 

>Recently, we've switched from converting POIs to building our bases from scratch, which is good because-- if the POI resets become a reality, it won't be feasible to convert one into a base.

 

There are so many issues that it sometimes hurt. Sleeping bag no sleeper spawn ranges do not encompass a lot of POIs forcing people into smaller building. The reset issue as you stated. The clear a sleeper bug that has been in A16 for 14 months ( and still in A17 it seems ), having then respawn when you so close to a POI or even inside it *sigh*.

 

Try being in a POI and having several dogs spawn on you inside the POI.

 

Those are bugs that are not luxury but play test bugs and i feel the devs do not really play test the game beyond testing the new features. And always wait for the community to complain to find the bugs. Or they simply even dismisses them as not a bug because they can not be bothered to actually fix a issue ( respawn zombies ).

 

You can expect that for a game just in beta but not for 7D2D that has been now, how many years out? Sorry no ...

[gwhit]

Bro Benjiro, when you can run back and forth on a football field at full sprint and not lose that much stamina then you can say it’s realistic. TFP are making it more realistic this way by making sprinting distances shorter.

 

Um NO MATTER what they change or how the change a number this game is not going to be realistic because in real world that I live in zombies are not trying to eat me. This is a game saying something should be a certain way is silly. Only thing that should be asked is if the game still fun this way. Period.

[razor1612]

... in real world that I live in zombies are not trying to eat me.

Well, they prefer brains... 😂

(badum-tsssss)

[Roland]

This is off-topic but its how i feel about 7D2D more and more. It feels like your forced into a specific game style.

 

For me 7D2D was always about building your own fortress, surviving the zombie and exploring for resources. As the danger increased, you put more time into getting better defenses, slowly got up to more easy ways to collect resources etc. I loved being self sufficient but with the focus on dungeons for the loot, you know where this is going.

 

The current move seems to be heavily flavored by MMORPG style gameplay. A focus on Dungeons, exploring to get the good "loot", get your Crystal of Might so you can upgrade your pickaxe. Weapon attachments make sense (silencer, scopem ...), pickaxe attachments are ridiculous idea. Its a almost exact rip from MMORPG games that use upgrades and the next big thing to keep things interesting.

 

I think you are worrying over nothing in this regard. You can still play 7 Days to Die in A17 the way you described. Dungeon houses are really just houses with more clutter and blind corners. They are not as linear as the videos make them seem. I like them way better than the empty shells we had and there are still plenty of those. You may end up not enjoying those POI's, however.

 

Where as i rather see 7D2D adding actual content. More complex crafting like some of the mods do ( but mods can only do so much because they run into issues with the 7D2D engine ), more content, interesting goals ( colony development ), some dungeon houses fine but not having every house reworked into a dungeon house, no magic bullet sponge boss zombies ( if you do that, then make a real separate mutated zombie ), no federal rehash zombies...

 

Now we have Feral, Boss and Radiated zombies, that are simply rehashed assets like you have in MMORPG games where have a gray monster, a purple monster, a glowing monster... with more HP and damage. So my comparison that 7D2D is more and more like a MMORPG is not that far off. Mods even use more assets like Spiders, Gorillas, etc ...

 

colony development is a future goal but won't be in A17. There is a good mix of plain POIs and dungeon POIs. The videos never show the plain ones because they aren't new and shiny. Your criticism of re-used assets for feral and radiated is fair.

 

The whole argument from the devs in the past that they only want local animals that exitst in that part of the US, does not hold a lot of meaning when we get Feral, Boss and Radiated zombies instead. I am fairly sure that we are not going to see spitting cops in a Zombie apocalypse

 

I am fairly sure we are not going to see a zombie apocalypse...

 

>Recently, we've switched from converting POIs to building our bases from scratch, which is good because-- if the POI resets become a reality, it won't be feasible to convert one into a base.

 

There are so many issues that it sometimes hurt. Sleeping bag no sleeper spawn ranges do not encompass a lot of POIs forcing people into smaller building. The reset issue as you stated. The clear a sleeper bug that has been in A16 for 14 months ( and still in A17 it seems ), having then respawn when you so close to a POI or even inside it *sigh*.

 

Try being in a POI and having several dogs spawn on you inside the POI.

 

Those are bugs that are not luxury but play test bugs and i feel the devs do not really play test the game beyond testing the new features. And always wait for the community to complain to find the bugs. Or they simply even dismisses them as not a bug because they can not be bothered to actually fix a issue ( respawn zombies ).

 

You can expect that for a game just in beta but not for 7D2D that has been now, how many years out? Sorry no ...

 

faatal posted that he fixed the clearing the sleepers issue and the cop zombie explosion issue.

The sleeping bag issue has also been fixed for A17 as far as I know

The team absolutely does use the community to find bugs. There is a lot that thousands of people can find that a small team cannot.

[warmer]

I hope that there is a sprint function that exceeds running and Joel is trying to tune it for Usain Bolt speeds at level 100.