Roland Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Madmole is doing some fine tuning and would like to know how long it takes to sprint across the football field in A16. So if anyone has a stopwatch handy and can time it and post it here I would be obliged. Also, if you run out of stamina before reaching the end of the football field, what is the approximate yardline where you run out? He wants to do a comparison between A16 and A17. Unmodded games only please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 From fence to fence - 21s 77ms Inside the markup field - 19s 35ms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 You never ran out of stamina? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer777 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 roland even on lvl with with 100 base stamina you wouldnt run out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 You never ran out of stamina? On start Stamina = 108 On Finish Stamina = ~77-80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crater Creator Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 On a Sunday at midnight? ...Dang, maybe next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iejen Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Tom Brady character confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 Thanks Orsey! Perfect!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjiro Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Madmole is doing some fine tuning and would like to know how long it takes to sprint across the football field in A16. So if anyone has a stopwatch handy and can time it and post it here I would be obliged. Also, if you run out of stamina before reaching the end of the football field, what is the approximate yardline where you run out? He wants to do a comparison between A16 and A17. Unmodded games only please. This question feels scary Roland ... At best you use 1/3 stamina in A16 for that. When you mention running out of stamina on the football field, it means the current A17 build a character is running out of stamina before the end post. That means by guessing, the current A17 build has something like a 400 to 500% running stamina nerve. I hope Joel is planning on increasing the stamina a **lot** based upon the feedback. 7D2D is big and taking a huge hit on stamina can totally influence the gameplay. More difficult to explore cities, move between cities etc. Unless bicycles are plenty... And tell Joel to also take a look at the Running Zombies and Zombie Dog stamina... In A16 dogs keep on your but with the current speed and stamina, until you run out. Zombie Dogs and Running Zombies **never** run out stamina before you deplete all your stamina in A16 ( without stimulants like coffee, ... ). You need to rely on tricks like placing spikes or trapping the AI on rocks/building/trees to get rid of Zombie Dogs. I have always hatted Zombie Dogs in this game because they are overpowered in speed, especially when they spawn near you. They tend to be so fast that you have no time to react when they close spawn ( like day 5/ day ... ). Also take a look at this span distance / laser pinpoint system where Zombies go directly to your position. With normal Zombies its ok, but not with runners / dogs. If the new A17 system nerves running stamina, it means players have zero chance against zombie dogs and running zombies. Prepare to hear a lot of complains about people angry about useless dying that when A17 gets released. So its better to focus on this issue before the release... Its actually a old alpha issue that will be enhanced by these A17 changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake_ Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 On start Stamina = 108 On Finish Stamina = ~77-80 Then if running speed is double/triple, stamina cost would double/triple on that measure, which is awesome. I saw MM videos and the boost on speed is huge indeed -overlooking the balancing on stamina drain back then that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlingCows Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Bro Benjiro, when you can run back and forth on a football field at full sprint and not lose that much stamina then you can say it’s realistic. TFP are making it more realistic this way by making sprinting distances shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjiro Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Bro Benjiro, when you can run back and forth on a football field at full sprint and not lose that much stamina then you can say it’s realistic. TFP are making it more realistic this way by making sprinting distances shorter. I have no issue if they want to make sprinting more realistic but for that to happen they need to be sure people will not complain later on. Changing one aspect of the game means you also need to re-balance other aspects. Bicycles solve part of the problem about traveling large distances early on. And that is If bicycles are plenty in the world. Nothing worse then getting a bad spawn position and needing to run two or three in-game days for a reasonable spot. With the large stamina from A16, its less of a issue, but when the stamina is cut for realism, solutions needs to be in place. But the dogs and running zombies are a major issue that needs to be addressed before A17 is released upon the public! Even in A16 zombie dogs ( especially in a group ) are a major issue for any player without coffee or any other boost products ( without resorting to AI tricks or other game cheats ). Most of my in-game dead's early on are from zombie dogs, if i do not resort to AI cheating ( what i personally hate ). And saying: Avoid them is not always the solution. Plenty of times grass hides the dogs, or you turn a corner to run right into several dogs, or on day 5 the blasted things spawn 30 feet away from you, and b-line right to you. So i can not imagine surviving in-game with severely restricted stamina early on Ironman mode ( aka, you die, you stay dead ) in A17 with the current known facts. This is why i point out to Roland to not forget to tell Joel, that they also need to balance dogs, runners etc to prevent runners and dogs from getting even more over powered for early gamers without armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 Nobody should take anything from this thread as a doomsday announcement. Madmole simply wants to compare his current A17 settings for stamina drain and player speed with that of A16 levels. He asked me and instead of re-installing A16 I asked for someone to run the test. Nobody is saying he will nerf it or change it significantly. Since he hasn't finalized it yet I can't really comment and nobody should even begin to be freaking out....yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimstone Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 This question feels scary Roland ... At best you use 1/3 stamina in A16 for that. When you mention running out of stamina on the football field, it means the current A17 build a character is running out of stamina before the end post. That means by guessing, the current A17 build has something like a 400 to 500% running stamina nerve. I hope Joel is planning on increasing the stamina a **lot** based upon the feedback. 7D2D is big and taking a huge hit on stamina can totally influence the gameplay. More difficult to explore cities, move between cities etc. Unless bicycles are plenty... Or, more likely, changes in A17 have made stamina different... and Madmole- wisely spending his time working out A17 kinks instead of making videos for half the forums to find more stuff to get totally melodramatic and hyperbolic about- is trying to get a baseline for adjustments to tweak things to work out the way they should... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Am I the only one who hopes it gets nerfed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloom_meister Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Roland, This is the wrong question. The correct question should be: Start running from one point, say 0,0 in a fixed direction on flat ground and when you run out of stamina (on a new character with 100 stam) measure the distance travelled and time taken. If the new A17 character cannot travel as far before running out of stam then this is a nerf, it does not matter if he runs twice as fast if he can only travel half as far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 Well if someone wants to measure distance ran before stamina is completely drained I'm sure that would be appreciated. It wasn't what he was looking at specifically but it is another good question that he might want to compare to A17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulquiorra Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Iirc the default walking speed is a tad faster as well in A17? All this may still change as Roland mentions though, I think you will run out of stamina a lot quicker and travel a shorter distance running, but you are able to outrun some dangers more easily, like dogs, and faster walk speed makes up for the nerf. If this is the case i really like this change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Iirc the default walking speed is a tad faster as well in A17? All this may still change as Roland mentions though, I think you will run out of stamina a lot quicker and travel a shorter distance running, but you are able to outrun some dangers more easily, like dogs, and faster walk speed makes up for the nerf. If this is the case i really like this change! From what I understood, A17 "walking" is A16 running speed and A17 sprint is supposed to be a real sprint but is going to exhaust you fast and I guess they are trying to adjust that "fast" into actual numbers/distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pico Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 From what I understood, A17 "walking" is A16 running speed and A17 sprint is supposed to be a real sprint but is going to exhaust you fast and I guess they are trying to adjust that "fast" into actual numbers/distance. I hope you are correct, because the A16 walking speed is painfully slow, to the point that I run everywhere, all the time, except when giving stamina a chance to recover. We do need some care taken with these speeds, since with A17 we can no longer run in reverse, so taking out dogs / coyotes / wolves / runners that are chasing you en mass becomes a lot more problematic... if you turn to attack they may overwhelm you as you slow down to 'walk' speed. As for bears...... even the big rocks aren't always a safe refuge. They cut through the rock pretty fast, and clip through half of it as well. Sounds like I might finally stand a chance of chasing a rabbit or a chicken through the grass now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pApA^LeGBa Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Am I the only one who hopes it gets nerfed? Why? If you look how long the field is in RL and how long it takes you to sprint in game, the ratio seems pretty good. It´s a pretty realistic time, even too slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crater Creator Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Well if someone wants to measure distance ran before stamina is completely drained I'm sure that would be appreciated. It wasn't what he was looking at specifically but it is another good question that he might want to compare to A17. I got you, fam! I tested on an unmodified build of Alpha 16.4b8 (game cache freshly verified). I started a new game (i.e. character had no skills) on Navezgane. I teleported to coordinates (1780 N, 600 W) and ran east on flat ground with no obstacles, starting from 100 stamina and stopping at 0 stamina. I ended at coordinates (1778 N 210 W). Distance: 390 meters Time: 64.50 seconds Speed: 6.05 meters / second Tell Madmole this wannabe 7DtD developer says hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjiro Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 From what I understood, A17 "walking" is A16 running speed and A17 sprint is supposed to be a real sprint but is going to exhaust you fast and I guess they are trying to adjust that "fast" into actual numbers/distance. From the videos and previous statements A17 "walking" speed is faster then A16 but it is defiantly not even close to A16 running speed. Roland: Its also not about freaking out but finally fixing a issue that has plagued 7D2D gameplay, the unbalanced zombie running / zombie dogs speed/stamina. Maybe other disagree with my opinion but A16 was the Alpha i played almost not. Running Zombies in building simply freaked me out ( so fast on you, plop, your dead ). And the fact that disabling the game setting for no Running Zombie, does not remove the new game-stage running Zombies. So any changes to Running / Sprinting frankly make random running Zombies and Zombie dogs worse. From the game-play videos and how the current published A17 sprint seems to work, if you encounter a zombie dog: - Sprint - Open the gap - Run out of stamina - Turn - Try to acquire your target ( dog closing distant fast ) - Try to shoot ( we all know how much fun it is trying to hit/kill running dogs ) - Hit / Miss - Turn - Try to run again - and ... you are out of stamina fast because stamina does not regenerate ultra fast. - Turn - Try to acquire your target ( dog closing distant fast ) - /Dog food. Now add to this mess, that backward running and shooting is not possible anymore. So the same will also be a issue for dealing with Random running Zombie ( that increase as your game stage progresses ). I respect the 7D2D developers plenty but at some point you need to ask the people if they agree with some of the changes instead of forcing them upon players. I personally HATE the random running zombies. You do good, your game stage goes up and you get more random runners. The game actually rewards you for dying a lot because it keeps the game stage down and so the runners. If you have a option to disable day runners, then add a option to disable all runners ( inc zombie feral etc ). I am honest about having games where i got sleeping runners on day 4 or 5, inside buildings and it angered me a lot. No warning, they are instant on you before you hear something. It feels like your being punished for not dying. I will have rather seen different enemies then simply rehashed enemies with glowing eyes and running abilities. Enemies act different, more animal enemies ( humans seem to outnumber animals way too much )... The reason why i originally buy 7D2D was because i wanted a Zombie game. The Wright was a acceptable late stage enemy that was able to run, because by that time, you also have the gear to deal with it. Then came the footballer. Sure, avoid the football field. Acceptable. Dogs, hateful near you spawning *****. In the normal world, sure but not when the game deliberately spawns then every week on the 5th day right near you. You end up playing different that day because you know the game will spawn dogs near you. Then came A16 random / sleeper running Ferals where you do not know when any will spawn, it can be in a group, in a sleeper spot, in a building, ... and they can spawn very early in the game. And i HATED it. It felt the same like cheap Dog spawns near you. Now the potential of even more restricted game-play with the changes to the sprint system, simply makes runners and dogs even more overpowered. Its not just about panicking or freaking out Roland, its about AGAIN seeing the game make changes that a subset of the player will dislike because those changes interact with other parts of the game. This is why i write this. I know that the devs will be with there heads in the code and because they constantly test code, dying is no big issue, they do not play long games so the attachment to a game / character is not available. I write code every day, i know how easy it is to lose focus only to discover clients do things different or have different feelings about features. So please for the love of the gods, if TFP change the running system, do something about runners. Give people the option to disable them without resorting to mods! Because from my experience with A16, A17 will be a even less fun for long term playing for people like me. People that want a ZOMBIE game where you can build, defend and explore on your terms, not some MMORPG / Horror game with dungeons, running zombies for cheap kills, ... 7D2D is moving away from the Romero zombies / the walking dead game that i want so fast, its not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 The developers are not going to be able to please everyone. They will create the game they want and if it turns out to not be fun for long term playing for some people they will either move on or mod it...like every other game in existence. Thanks for spelling out your preferences. It's good to know what people want. At the end of the day the developers will make a decision and it will either align with your desires or it won't and then you will have to decide what to do. Most likely, if you never want to experience any zombies that can run you will need to play with a mod that removes the running from ferals. It is doubtful that the vanilla game will go as far as you are desiring because the devs want running feral zombies. Joel is balancing the player speed vs zombie and dog running speeds to make sure it isn't impossible to survive nor is it automatically guaranteed that you will escape. It needs to be thrilling and risky and fear inducing but also doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 asdf. Just my 2 cents... Looking at them separately, I think the changes to the running system are fine and seem more on the immersive side. That said... I completely agree with the points you made in your post and I can't stress them enough. I wish they would just get rid of those god damn frame-skipping zombie dogs and zombie animals or at least make them scarce. Normal zombies have taken the backseat. Like guppy very accurately once said and in my opinion, the special zombies seem like they have come out of Scooby-Doo. Which sucks. Progression curve is short and advanced materials are over the top, yet instead of tuning them down, adding more survival elements or using some random combat behavior that could even make normal zombies a formidable threat, the devs seem to think that adding more superzombie bulletsponge gimmicks is the solution. I was always in favor of some theme-friendly special ability zombies, but I used to jest when hornets were introduced and say "let's not have zombies shooting lasers out of their eyes". At this point I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.