[WIP] True Survival SDX

[Darkstardragon]

Its all in your head. *waves hand* This isnt the battle you are looking for

 

 

Apologies, couldnt resist lol, and im sure spider is doing everything he can to squash this bug.

[Guppycur]

I think the chunk resetting problem is something that happens in vanilla, but is exacerbated by something mods do. I truly believe there is "error correcting" code that resets the chunk. My /guess/ is that it has something to do with workstation timers. Perhaps there is a hard coded limit per chunk. Perhaps it is something else. I don't know. Pure speculation based on observation on my part. I've certainly come across areas where there USED to be a mine, and going into God mode, the mine continues in the ground, just the entrance is gone. No timers there, but perhaps some other error was corrected.

 

It makes sense that bases would get reset more due to timers, but it also makes sense that we would NOTICE the error more with bases.

 

Whether or not it is due to this mod, or if the mod just makes it worse, or if it has nothing to do with this mod, is the question. Even if the mod just makes it worse, it is NOT the mod's responsibility, IMO.

 

I did find out that it's not Random Gen that handles what chunks do, so it is very unlikely A16 will "fix" it simply because RandomGen is re-done.

[ShankyMcStabber]

I am 99% sure there is some sort of chuck error correction going on.

 

The reason I say this is because back when I first setup a private server for some friends and I (alpha 10 or 11), I made the mistake of running the rendermap command while logged in. To make it worse I even tried opening containers/workstations so I could continue crafting some gear.

 

The containers/workstations immediately went unresponsive and I eventually ended up reloagging in an attempt to fix the containers not working. When I logged back in, everything within the POI I had turned into a base was reverted back to the initial seed but everything located outside that building was still there.

 

I wonder if the chunk errors are somehow linked to server load. I know the rendermap command puts a big strain on the server CPU (which is why it shouldn't be run while players are actually on the server).

[obsidianmcbovril]

UPDATE: Hotfix patch:

 

Savegame safe (no snickering please)

 

Fixes:

 

Fixed AI tasks in Tara, and Boomer Zombies

Changed repair material from forged iron to scrap iron on barbedwire fence.

 

I'm going to start a new save, with this patch, on a multiplayer game.

 

Over 800hrs logged on 7DTD in two years. 600 ish with True Survival. Never had a single reset until I installed the SDX version maybe two weeks ago.

 

This is still the best and only mod I want to use to make the game better, but getting this problem fixed is more important than finger pointing and...hand waving haha

[Spider]

What do we think on these block health numbers? For the next build?

 

Block	HP
Sod	200
Hard Sod	300

Logs	300
LogCabin	450
Wood Debris	100

Wood Frames	50
Wood  	400
Wood+Wood	600
W+W+Scrap	800
Solid Frame	100

Cobblestone Frame	20
CobblesStone	1500
Destroyed Stone	100

Brick Frame	20
Brick   	2000
Destroyed Stone	100

Cement Form	50
Concrete Block	2500
Destroyed Stone	100

Scrap Iron Frame	50
Corregated Scrap	1000
CS + Scrap Iron Block	2000
CS +Scrap Iron + Scrap Iron	3000
Solid Scrap Iron Frame	200

Rebar	50
Reinforced Concrete	3500
Solid Rebar	200

Forged Frame	50
Rusty Steel	2000
Steel	3500
Stainless Steel	4000
Solid Forged Frame	500

[Ozzland]

Numbers all look good/fine but truley depends on z opposing damage doesn'y it.

[owl79]

What do we think on these block health numbers? For the next build?

 

That's really hard to judge in advance, without knowing how you'll adjust the zombie hands, explosion and spit damage, and material damage boni. But in comparison to each other and judging from the current zombie damage, the hp of the supposedly tougher materials seem rather low.

[Spider]

Adjusted values. Look Better?

 

Block HP

Sod 200

Hard Sod 300

 

Logs 300

LogCabin 450

Wood Debris 100

 

Wood Frames 50

Wood 400

Wood+Wood 600

W+W+Scrap 800

Solid Frame 100

 

Cobblestone Frame 20

CobblesStone 1500

Destroyed Stone 100

 

Brick Frame 20

Brick 2000

Destroyed Stone 100

 

Cement Form 50

Concrete Block 2500

Destroyed Stone 100

 

Scrap Iron Frame 50

Corregated Scrap 1000

CS + Scrap Iron Block 2000

CS +Scrap Iron + Scrap Iron 3000

Solid Scrap Iron Frame 200

 

Rebar 50

Reinforced Concrete 3500

Solid Rebar 200

 

Forged Frame 50

Rusty Steel 2000

Steel 3500

Stainless Steel 4000

Solid Forged Frame 500

[Nikola]

Adjusted values. Look Better?

 

 

Fully upgraded wood = 1800 vs cobblestone @ 1500 and concrete at 2500 seems off. Also, the layers make wood 4x better against anything that one shots blocks.

 

Reinforced concrete seems quite low vs unreinforced. As a structural engineer, reinforced should be at least double the strength of something banging on it (concrete alone is great for compressive forces, rebar in it makes it great at tension forces - banging on it induces both). Likewise, for extreme realism, unreinforced concrete should not be able to cantilever out more than 2 blocks -reinforced can go out as many as the game allows.

 

Steel should be quite a bit stronger than reinforced concrete, maybe not double, but at least 75% as a base (currently its the same). To fix this, maybe increase steel itself to 6500, reduce stainless steel to 1500.

 

I don't know whats possible, but can you make some blocks better against certain attacks than others? For example, unreinforced concrete could have a high defense against zombie hands, but is susceptible to explosions and can more easily collapse since it should not be able to span across 3 blocks. Sandbags could quickly crumble versus zombie hands, but will absorb an explosion such that no blocks beyond it are damaged. This would encourage layered building walls. Early game, we have wood..then before we stick on concrete or reinforced concrete we put a couple layers of sandbags. Once we get to steel we can toss a layer of steel. Then at the pinnacle shine that steel up for a very solid defense. To combat some of this, can you add zome zombies that have acid attacks (weak against wood, strong vs regular steel, does nothing to stainless); another that has a very hot-type attack that can damage stainless steel more easily and sets fire to wood blocks (damaging them) but is relatively harmless against brick and concrete. Etc, you get the idea.

 

I think having a range of attacks with varying damage against varied blocks will make horde nights much more interactive as I can better prioritize my defense and have targets I need to deal with right away, and others I can ignore for a bit - all based on where they are attacking my base and what type of defenses I have there and less on picking out the cops (or the latest bad guy) and ignoring the rest. I may have to prioritize some lowly zombie over a cop, for example, if the cop is banging on a steel door but that pissant zombie has a certain attack that will destroy the steel door much more quickly. Early game, that same zombie was fodder because I had no steel, so their attacks were not remotely the danger they are with steel.

 

As an aside, if all this is possible...the worst horde army would be zombies where these attacks are unknown until they start hitting stuff. Makes the player have to pay very special attention to defenses and forces us to react quickly and decisively. Not easy in the least, makes player skill and knowledge very important, and is easily scalable just by increasing the number of these unknown attack zombies. I think this adds a level of difficulty without the simple more HP/do headshots solution TFP incorporates.

[Spider]

@Nikola-

No building material upgrades or downgrades into another. So wood only upgrades to wood not Scrap Iron. Blocks with multiple upgrades will not break back into its many stages. Instead the blocks health will accumulate on the current block and when broken turn to a frame.

[xyth]

Update: Patch - server and client xml only

 

Gamesave safe.

 

Removed all old code on workstations related to the crowbar pickup and replace feature.

Added fall and edited drop events on all workstations.

Fixed missing icon on boar trophy.

Added missing trophy, tree loot and new wood item UI icons.

 

As always, please report any new bugs you might find. The more we can catch here, the fewer we will need to find in the next A16 release.

[xyth]

 

I don't know whats possible, but can you make some blocks better against certain attacks than others? For example, unreinforced concrete could have a high defense against zombie hands, but is susceptible to explosions and can more easily collapse since it should not be able to span across 3 blocks. Sandbags could quickly crumble versus zombie hands, but will absorb an explosion such that no blocks beyond it are damaged. This would encourage layered building walls. Early game, we have wood..then before we stick on concrete or reinforced concrete we put a couple layers of sandbags. Once we get to steel we can toss a layer of steel. Then at the pinnacle shine that steel up for a very solid defense. To combat some of this, can you add zome zombies that have acid attacks (weak against wood, strong vs regular steel, does nothing to stainless); another that has a very hot-type attack that can damage stainless steel more easily and sets fire to wood blocks (damaging them) but is relatively harmless against brick and concrete. Etc, you get the idea.

 

I think having a range of attacks with varying damage against varied blocks will make horde nights much more interactive as I can better prioritize my defense and have targets I need to deal with right away, and others I can ignore for a bit - all based on where they are attacking my base and what type of defenses I have there and less on picking out the cops (or the latest bad guy) and ignoring the rest. I may have to prioritize some lowly zombie over a cop, for example, if the cop is banging on a steel door but that pissant zombie has a certain attack that will destroy the steel door much more quickly. Early game, that same zombie was fodder because I had no steel, so their attacks were not remotely the danger they are with steel.

 

As an aside, if all this is possible...the worst horde army would be zombies where these attacks are unknown until they start hitting stuff. Makes the player have to pay very special attention to defenses and forces us to react quickly and decisively. Not easy in the least, makes player skill and knowledge very important, and is easily scalable just by increasing the number of these unknown attack zombies. I think this adds a level of difficulty without the simple more HP/do headshots solution TFP incorporates.

 

The short answer is, yes, to all of the above. We can regulate relative damage of player and zombie attacks to different block material, just as we can alter specific weapon damage done to zombies wearing different "armor". This will introduce different playability than in other mods. The skill system is also unique to that of any other mod. Based on what you stated, I think its very likely you will enjoy whats coming next.

[Nikola]

Based on what you stated, I think its very likely you will enjoy whats coming next.

 

Sounds awesome, can't wait!

 

 

@Nikola-

No building material upgrades or downgrades into another. So wood only upgrades to wood not Scrap Iron. Blocks with multiple upgrades will not break back into its many stages. Instead the blocks health will accumulate on the current block and when broken turn to a frame.

 

Spider, so if I am understanding, stainless steel will have 9550 and when broken, degrades into a 500 hp frame? A maxed out upgraded wood block will have 1850 and degrade into a 100 hp frame?

 

That sounds fair. Are you changing or tweaking the costs to upgrade at all? Just trying to figure out the material costs and time costs associated with each block type. Also, based on xyth's quote - very interested in seeing what you are doing with block damage types or skills.

[cross_exonar]

The meat/brains/bladders/hooves drop rate on animal gutting is rediculous, > 150 meat on a dear, >75 on a chicken, 6 hooves on a deer.

Its balance breaking Since you never have to go looking for food after just one animal kill, just live off it for weeks

[Spider]

@Nikola-

No. The block health is the block health no adding numbers. When a block breaks it goes to its frame or a debris block no downgrading.

[xyth]

Sounds awesome, can't wait!

 

 

 

 

Spider, so if I am understanding, stainless steel will have 9550 and when broken, degrades into a 500 hp frame? A maxed out upgraded wood block will have 1850 and degrade into a 100 hp frame?

 

That sounds fair. Are you changing or tweaking the costs to upgrade at all? Just trying to figure out the material costs and time costs associated with each block type. Also, based on xyth's quote - very interested in seeing what you are doing with block damage types or skills.

 

No a stainless steel block will have 4000hp and breaks directly to its frame, which has 500hp. A full upgraded wood block will have 800hp and degrade directly to its frame which has 100hp

[xyth]

The meat/brains/bladders/hooves drop rate on animal gutting is rediculous, > 150 meat on a dear, >75 on a chicken, 6 hooves on a deer.

Its balance breaking Since you never have to go looking for food after just one animal kill, just live off it for weeks

 

I have never experienced such high drop rates. No recent changes were made to animal drop rates (several weeks). Would need more specific info like skinning tool used etc before I can look into this.

[gzzuss]

prob more than one class with 2x havest

[Nikola]

No a stainless steel block will have 4000hp and breaks directly to its frame, which has 500hp. A full upgraded wood block will have 800hp and degrade directly to its frame which has 100hp

 

I see, thanks.

 

The numbers seem really close together, so it's hard to see the value in getting to 75 to make steel after 50 levels of concrete to gain nothing in block defense. Based on what you said however, it sounds like zombies will be doing much less damage to the steel - so there is motivation to mine to get those steel blocks, or stainless steel blocks. But, if there are zombies that can just bust through steel blocks in 4 or 5 hits - I'd rather just make a wood wall 4-deep w/ 1 layer of reinforced concrete walls I made at level 25. Trees are renewable and I can remake those walls easily enough. Just my perspective without seeing all the zombie damage and other features you are adding.

[xyth]

I see, thanks.

 

The numbers seem really close together, so it's hard to see the value in getting to 75 to make steel after 50 levels of concrete to gain nothing in block defense. Based on what you said however, it sounds like zombies will be doing much less damage to the steel - so there is motivation to mine to get those steel blocks, or stainless steel blocks. But, if there are zombies that can just bust through steel blocks in 4 or 5 hits - I'd rather just make a wood wall 4-deep w/ 1 layer of reinforced concrete walls I made at level 25. Trees are renewable and I can remake those walls easily enough. Just my perspective without seeing all the zombie damage and other features you are adding.

 

Thanks for the input. Pretty much everything is changing, so assumptions like getting the ability to use a certain material, like steel, at a specific level, like level 75, is gone. What we are aiming at is giving you more choices, and making those choices have consequences. Balance will be tricky, so continued constructive input will really be needed to get this right.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

prob more than one class with 2x havest

 

Yes, this would explain it. I will look at options to prevent exploiting multiple 2x classes.

 

Oh, in case anyone noticed that the FPS drop related to followers (on some systems) has been partially resolved. In my testing, there is no longer a significant FPS drop when followers shoot weapons, and the FPS drop from thier movement has decreased noticeably (but is still there).

[cross_exonar]

prob more than one class with 2x havest

 

yeah its probably that lol, i forgot that was a thing.

 

Actually no, my friend who had chemist only was still getting like 100 meat per dear, 6 bladders from a gator (field knife tho) and other rediculous values.

 

but still, even for a field knife thats way more meat than you should be able to logically obtain, 75 meat from a chicken is silly.

[xyth]

yeah its probably that lol, i forgot that was a thing.

 

Actually no, my friend who had chemist only was still getting like 100 meat per dear, 6 bladders from a gator (field knife tho) and other rediculous values.

 

but still, even for a field knife that is way more meat than you should be able to logically obtain, 75 meat from a chicken is silly.

 

I found what I think is an extends issue on the Field Knife that I believe effectively doubles the drops on that knife. If you want to test, in the items.xml file find the field knife and add this line: <property name="ToolCategory.Hunter" value="0" /> and let me know how that tests.

 

I will also be going through the animal drops to adjust a bit more, and plan on changing the 2x harvesting bonus to something like 1.25x. The issue here is that that bonus was not intended to effect entity drops, just block drops, but the base code isn't setup that way so we need to work around it.

[cross_exonar]

Hosting dedicated server, had no issues with it untill just now, grabbed the files from the githubs (both server and client respectively), fresh install of 7d2d and get this error, which never lets me load in.

http://imgur.com/a/Cu3Sk

[xyth]

Hosting dedicated server, had no issues with it untill just now, grabbed the files from the githubs (both server and client respectively), fresh install of 7d2d and get this error, which never lets me load in.

http://imgur.com/a/Cu3Sk

 

I would need to see your full log to be able to help. The server and client install is working fine for me. Best blind guess at what's wrong: A common mistake in patching the dedicated server is forgetting to remove the settings.ini file from to update folder 7DaystoDieServer_data/Managed directory so it doesn't overwrite your settings.ini file.

[cross_exonar]

Eh, ive been dragging and dropping everything from the new releases to the server every update without problems, replace all files in folder not given me any problems untill today, may just have to try a fresh server install or somthing while maintaining the world files