Could we get a T3 Baton?

[OreEnthusiast]

The intellect tree offers some pretty unique combat options but they're very limited as well. Once you upgrade from the early game and can use stun batons + robotics it feels really nice being given these cool new toys to play with, especially compared to the relatively slower jump up of other trees. But unlike the other skill trees you never go beyond that point aside from finishing the tech junkie books and getting quality 6 items. 

It'd be nice if intellect could get some T3 items. Supposedly from what I've been told the TFP intended for the intellect tree to be a supporting role so I could understand being weaker in combat. However I feel like, at least with batons, there's definitely room for improvements without breaking that concept. 

One of the stun baton's major issues is the inability to deal with multiple fast moving zombies at once. If they pack together very closely you can potentially get off a group CC but if you're being approached from multiple angles even with the tech junkie buff to charges you can still get beat up pretty easily. Or in other cases the zombies are running together from the same direction but are spread out just far enough to where the zombies further behind avoid the CC that hit the zombies up front and then they manage to get to you. 

A T3 baton that could improve the stun baton and fix these issues would be great. Lower the damage further, increase attack speed, and make the CC effects go off more frequently. Potentially add the stun proc to every hit. The intellect class isn't great at killing them but it becomes even better at keeping them locked down or from getting to people with the guns. 

Hopefully it's something that could be considered for future content updates. Thank you. 


 

[SylenThunder]

T1 - Pipe baton

T2 - Stun baton

T3 - Plasma Baton (Not currently available, but is currently being developed.)

 

 

[Arma Rex]

2 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

T1 - Pipe baton

T2 - Stun baton

T3 - Plasma Baton (Not currently available, but is currently being developed.)

 

 

Wouldn't the pipe baton be considered primitive, not a tier 1?

[OreEnthusiast]

11 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

T1 - Pipe baton

T2 - Stun baton

T3 - Plasma Baton (Not currently available, but is currently being developed.)

 

 

 

If it's actually in the pipeline then I'm fine with that. Looking forward to it. 

[Riamus]

On 7/23/2023 at 6:10 PM, Arma Rex said:

Wouldn't the pipe baton be considered primitive, not a tier 1?

Not really.  Even the art showed it is a normal weapon.

 

Even if it was primitive (I would only consider it being a primitive pipe baton if it was one long pipe and two short pipes screwed into a T to get the baton shape), it would still do basically the same damage, speed, stamina use, etc of a less primitive baton (other than stun or plasma or similar) so it wouldn't really matter.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

On 7/23/2023 at 1:09 PM, SylenThunder said:

T1 - Pipe baton

T2 - Stun baton

T3 - Plasma Baton (Not currently available, but is currently being developed.)

 

 

 

Wait, for real? Are we actually getting a plasma baton?

[SylenThunder]

43 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

 

Wait, for real? Are we actually getting a plasma baton?

 

Placeholder xml for it is already in items. I haven't seen art on it, or heard it discussed, but the data is starting to exist.

[pApA^LeGBa]

On 7/23/2023 at 3:48 PM, OreEnthusiast said:

One of the stun baton's major issues is the inability to deal with multiple fast moving zombies at once. If they pack together very closely you can potentially get off a group CC but if you're being approached from multiple angles even with the tech junkie buff to charges you can still get beat up pretty easily.
 

 

How is that different from a club, sledge, knife/machete or spear? Not even the sledge can bring them all down if they come from different angles. Let alone a knife or spear.

 

And as a INT player you are supposed to combine it with a robotic turret.

 

Having played quite a while with the stun baton/turret in A21 i gotta say it´s OP, actually expecting a nerf tbh. Absolutly no problem with crowd control while having low stamina cost. And the 10% insta kill chance from the books is amazing. Also NerdTats.

Edited July 29, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

4 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

 

Placeholder xml for it is already in items. I haven't seen art on it, or heard it discussed, but the data is starting to exist.

 

I hope it comes to fruition and gets added!

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

And the 10% insta kill chance from the books is amazing. Also NerdTats.

 

Pretty sure that's from perking 5 points into Physician.

[pApA^LeGBa]

2 hours ago, Old Crow said:

Pretty sure that's from perking 5 points into Physician.

 

Yeah ofc. My bad. Still amazing. Also getting a lot more out of healing items simply pays off, especially in MP were sewing kits are acutally holding you back regarding first aid kits.

[OreEnthusiast]

12 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

How is that different from a club, sledge, knife/machete or spear? Not even the sledge can bring them all down if they come from different angles. Let alone a knife or spear.

 

And as a INT player you are supposed to combine it with a robotic turret.

 

Having played quite a while with the stun baton/turret in A21 i gotta say it´s OP, actually expecting a nerf tbh. Absolutly no problem with crowd control while having low stamina cost. And the 10% insta kill chance from the books is amazing. Also NerdTats.

Strength weapons have the advantage of high knockback and high upfront damage. What the baton does through RNG rolls the club and sledge do normally. Sledge also can easily get multiple enemies at once. Strength also has the advantage of being considerably tankier thanks to their heavy armor skill. As for blades and spears I can't say much on them aside from they deal decent damage. Maybe they could use a buff but frankly I haven't used them enough this patch for proper comparison. However I don't really care about the damage. What I more care about is the CC. Stunning enemies is necessary for rolling those RNG checks and keeping them off of you as well as letting turrets do their thing.

As for your idea that turrets can do the work for you.

Sledge turrets are frankly just terrible. They have an unbelievably narrow field of view and with no collateral hits it sucks even worse than the baton with crowds. I've legit seen bears consistently side step them by running around them so close that their models clip into them and they still don't activate. There's also a bad start up delay where it won't attack for like a second or 2 after placing so it's really bad for reactive situations. Would've been a way better design had they made it an AOE turret similar to a mobile blade trap but with sledge hammers. 

As for the robot turret I don't have many issues with it. It's pretty good but it's not holding back a strong group of mobs as well as the glaring weakness of being countered by demolishers. And that's on relatively normal settings. If you're running nightmare, which I guess the developers might not be balancing for which is fair, then you can forget about it. But it still doesn't compare to a proper end game firearm with it's appropriate attribute. Shotguns especially I think outclass every other firearm in the game, though I could be wrong about that.

That's why I'd really like to see is a higher tier baton with better reach, faster CC application, and maybe a new mod that gives innate nerd tats instead of needing candy for it. Stun repulsor is funny but if there's a mob that you really need to keep locked down like a bear then having it fly away from you is not the play. But being able to stun a whole group is game changing.

[Arma Rex]

20 hours ago, Riamus said:

Not really.  Even the art showed it is a normal weapon.

 

Even if it was primitive (I would only consider it being a primitive pipe baton if it was one long pipe and two short pipes screwed into a T to get the baton shape), it would still do basically the same damage, speed, stamina use, etc of a less primitive baton (other than stun or plasma or similar) so it wouldn't really matter.

I suppose so. I thought that a T1 could be a police baton, but I'm not sure how much more effective that could be from a couple of pipes. Who knows, intellect in general could use some love.

[pApA^LeGBa]

3 hours ago, OreEnthusiast said:

As for your idea that turrets can do the work for you.

 

That´s not an idea. That´s a prooven concept. And it´s not baton or turret, it´s the combo of both.

 

Stunbaton plus Turret(s) gives you really good crowd control. For starters i used the sledge turret and later on one robotic and once i can max the skill i use 2 robotic turrets with AP ammo. Infested T6 quest Navezgane corrections with no firearms or explosives used, just a few stealthy crossbow kills here and there otherwise only baton and turrets used. Just to know if it´s possible and it is. It needs a bit of planning and knowing the POI but it´s easily doable.

 

Demos outside of hordenight are really rare it seems, i haven´t seen one out in the wild so far. And when i get one outside of the hordenight, i simply pull out a gun and blast on his head or knees. It´s not like i don´t use anything else than baton/turrets, no one forces you to just use one weapon combo. Just because i am specialized in batons and turrets doesn´t mean i don´t have any guns.

 

And i think i could take on a hordenight on foot aswell with the baton/turret combo if i have enough megacrush and 3 points in run and gun. Need to test that.

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[OreEnthusiast]

3 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

That´s not an idea. That´s a prooven concept. And it´s not baton or turret, it´s the combo of both.

 

Stunbaton plus Turret gives you really good crowd control. For starters i used the sledge turret and later on one robotic and in the endgame 2 robotic turrets with AP ammo. Infested T6 quest Navezgane corrections with no firearms or explosives used, just a few stealthy crossbow kills here and there otherwise only baton and turrets used. Just to know if it´s possible and it is. It needs a bit of planning and knowing the POI but it´s easily doable.

 

Demos outside of hordenight are really rare it seems, i haven´t seen one out in the wild so far. And when i get one outside of the hordenight, i simply pull out a gun and blast on his head or knees. It´s not like i don´t use anything else than baton/turrets, no one forces you to just use one weapon combo. The right tool for the right job. Just because i am specialized in batons and turrets doesn´t mean i don´t have any guns.

 

And i think i could take on a hordenight on foot aswell with the baton/turret combo if i have enough megacrush and 3 points in run and gun. Need to test that.

 

I didn't say the stuff was unviable for content. Anything is possible with knowledge and planning. I'm talking about if it's actually good at what it's meant to do and whether or not it's enjoyable for the average player. And it's at this point that we're not agreeing. I think the idea is there that you can keep zombies locked down while the turrets put in work. But I think it's janky as hell and just doesn't live up to the fantasy. Zombies can easily bypass the turrets, especially the sledge with how bad it is, and the stun baton doesn't get off nearly enough shocks to keep things at bay either. The robot turret is decent but it is no dedicated firearm. The only thing that I like it for over a conventional ranged option is the ammo is cheap to craft. 

My take in a nuttshell is that INT's combat is unique and a breath of fresh air the game could use but ultimately still needs ironing out. 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@OreEnthusiast You keep saying this happens in my imagination. I am actually using it daily. It works, it´s not just my fantasy. And i don´t think i could do the same POI with only club or sledge. At least not in the same time. Would take waaaay longer. And on survivalist i doubt that it´s actually possible to do without guns and/or explosive using the sledge or club if you don´t have the 2 turrets.

 

Look around a bit on YT, discord channels or other 7 days related places. People say it´s OP left, right and center.

Edited July 29, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[OreEnthusiast]

5 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@OreEnthusiast You keep saying this happens in my imagination. I am actually using it daily. It works, it´s not just my fantasy. And i don´t think i could do the same POI with only club or sledge. At least not in the same time. Would take waaaay longer. And on survivalist i doubt that it´s actually possible to do without guns and/or explosive using the sledge or club if you don´t have the 2 turrets.

 

Look around a bit on YT, discord channels or other 7 days related places. People say it´s OP left, right and center.

Never said it was your imagination. You're putting words into my mouth. The only thing remotely close that I said was we have differing opinions. I've also been playing INT and 7 days in general non stop since A21 including Co Op playthroughs with a friend running STR. With the co op playthrough it was on survivalist but I otherwise only play insane. And the moment most of your zombie encounters are ferals and rads INT starts to struggle. Everything is running 24/7, blasting passed any sort of turret defense you set up, and you're left running around Scooby Doo style trying to pick off zombies while bobbing and weaving hoping those RNG roles kick in. And sometimes they just don't. Sometimes you get a lucky 1 tap on the first hit, other times you might end up beating a bear down from 100 to 0 with light attacks cause it never triggers a dismemberment or insta kill. 

STR build though? Man just absolutely destroys everything in his path. He's killing zombies just as effectively as baton does when it gets good RNG, but his melee weapons don't rely on it. And when things actually get tough he can pull out a shotgun and 100% annihilate any group of zombies regardless of how stacked they are all while being a tough nut to crack. Now you may try to argue that you can also run a shotgun. But this whole argument is build VS build. And in no world can an INT build with batons and turrets pull off the same feat. 

And I think that's fine. Again, I'm not saying INT needs some crazy damage like a stacked STR build with an auto shotgun or stacked Fort build with an M60. I'm only saying since its combat revolves around CC and lockdown that for that purpose it's lacking. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by OreEnthusiast (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

"Just doesn´t live up to the fantasy"  Yeah. I mean maybe your aren´t a native english speaker, maybe it´s because i am not a native speaker, but that sentence implies for me that you think this can only happen in my fantasy.

 

And ofc things will not be balanced around, insane, always running. That´s not how you judge the balance of the game or a weapon. On pretty much every other difficutly setting the baton/turret combo makes you way faster when clearing POI´s without having to rely on guns/explosives and you only need raw iron and raw lead for the turrets.

 

And that´s only a part of why INT is OP right now. You get a lot of really good perks really fast. You can build vehicles way earlier, get 2 rewards for quests way earlier, get a lot of Xp way earlier from using traps, sprains aren´t an issue at all, you get better prices at the trader way earlier and you need way less first aid.

 

 

[Zyggy]

40 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

"Just doesn´t live up to the fantasy"  Yeah. I mean maybe your aren´t a native english speaker, maybe it´s because i am not a native speaker, but that sentence implies for me that you think this can only happen in my fantasy.

 

And ofc things will not be balanced around, insane, always running. That´s not how you judge the balance of the game or a weapon. On pretty much every other difficutly setting the baton/turret combo makes you way faster when clearing POI´s without having to rely on guns/explosives and you only need raw iron and raw lead for the turrets.

 

And that´s only a part of why INT is OP right now. You get a lot of really good perks really fast. You can build vehicles way earlier, get 2 rewards for quests way earlier, get a lot of Xp way earlier from using traps, sprains aren´t an issue at all, you get better prices at the trader way earlier and you need way less first aid.

 

 

Sprains were not an issue a long time ago. Stun baton got better? Sure. You got perks to get magazines fast? Sure. Then a forgetting elixir and where are those really good perks? oh yeah forgotten. Same as the baton to clear pois (or any other melee weapon indeed).

 

And by the way, havent even crafted a single bullet in this alpha, you still can tell you havent mined to get your turret ammo?

Edited July 30, 2023 by Zyggy (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

2 hours ago, Zyggy said:

Sprains were not an issue a long time ago. Stun baton got better? Sure. You got perks to get magazines fast? Sure. Then a forgetting elixir and where are those really good perks? oh yeah forgotten. Same as the baton to clear pois (or any other melee weapon indeed).

 

And by the way, havent even crafted a single bullet in this alpha, you still can tell you havent mined to get your turret ammo?

 

Sprains were only not an issue if you had stereoids before A21. 

 

We play MP Coop with 2 people not going looting most of the time and the other 3 do quests and POI´s together most of the the time. And as there is no instanced loot in this game, yes, we need to mine for ammo. You can´t get enogh ammo for even only the 3 of us doing POI´s all the time with only looting/trader rewards. We need a lot of ammo for hordenight aswell as it´s not really an option to do a lot of melee with 5 people.

 

Also turret ammo is dirt cheap. You don´t need to do a lot of mining for it if played in SP.

 

I get it, you two play insane/nightmare and INT might not be the best here, but overall INT is really OP atm. Just not for you in particular but for the majority of the players. Again, playing insane/nightmare doesn´t represent how this game or it´s gear should work. I have seen STR players in SP saying they got steel clubs/sledges and tools crafted, wearing steel armor but still have to use the minibike travelling to T6 quests for example.

Edited July 30, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Zyggy]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Sprains were only not an issue if you had stereoids before A21. 

 

We play MP Coop with 2 people not going looting most of the time and the other 3 do quests and POI´s together most of the the time. And as there is no instanced loot in this game, yes, we need to mine for ammo. You can´t get enogh ammo for even only the 3 of us doing POI´s all the time with only looting/trader rewards. We need a lot of ammo for hordenight aswell as it´s not really an option to do a lot of melee with 5 people.

 

Also turret ammo is dirt cheap. You don´t need to do a lot of mining for it if played in SP.

 

I get it, you two play insane/nightmare and INT might not be the best here, but overall INT is really OP atm. Just not for you in particular but for the majority of the players. Again, playing insane/nightmare doesn´t represent how this game or it´s gear should work. I have seen STR players in SP saying they got steel clubs/sledges and tools crafted, wearing steel armor but still have to use the minibike travelling to T6 quests for example.

I agree with you that batons are pretty powered now, (stun one, cuz pipe still sucks bad). Not to mention that batons are the new best animal harvest tool, pretty stupid that a baton works as a knife... but whatever.

 

What i tried to mean if that with the addition of infested caches, and breaking police cars, if before you barely needed to craft ammo, now its a bad joke. As far as i know, correct me if im wrong, if you do a poi in SP or in MP there is the same ammount of zombies. So, it shouldnt be any difference in terms of ammo between those 2, (not counting that with more people you could even melee any tier poi zombies  to death)

 

Every person has a different playstyle, which is good. Pretty sure if that steel/sledge user has that and tools and a minibike its becouse he powered miner's, which is the real problem to get stations/vehicles books, not only have those intellect perks up.

[OreEnthusiast]

8 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

"Just doesn´t live up to the fantasy"  Yeah. I mean maybe your aren´t a native english speaker, maybe it´s because i am not a native speaker, but that sentence implies for me that you think this can only happen in my fantasy.

 

And ofc things will not be balanced around, insane, always running. That´s not how you judge the balance of the game or a weapon. On pretty much every other difficutly setting the baton/turret combo makes you way faster when clearing POI´s without having to rely on guns/explosives and you only need raw iron and raw lead for the turrets.

 

And that´s only a part of why INT is OP right now. You get a lot of really good perks really fast. You can build vehicles way earlier, get 2 rewards for quests way earlier, get a lot of Xp way earlier from using traps, sprains aren´t an issue at all, you get better prices at the trader way earlier and you need way less first aid.

 

 

That's not what that sentence was meant to imply. I meant there's an idea of how it's meant to work VS the reality of it. As for the rest of this comment. I don't play on nightmare speed*. When I said running I meant the point of the game where pretty much every zombie you encounter is feral or radiated. 

And I'm not arguing against the rest of the INT tree. It's strong and I like it. I'm arguing that it's combat is janky, even if we take into consideration that it's not meant to be great in the first place. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by OreEnthusiast (see edit history)