Why lvl 6 gear cannot be crafted?

[Ramethzer0]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:10 PM, Archael said:

I really dont understand it.
I can get that being able to craft lvl6 gear could remove looting part... but we have to loot parts to craft better gear, so there will always be scavenging for loot.
Right now crafting is really unnecessary...
I hit me after last game with my friends. We played more roleplay. One was our camp-mama - farming, coocking etc. One was scavenging and doing some quests. One was hunting and questing. And I was mining all day long.
When Friend 2 found auger schamatic in trader stock i had no parts to craft auger. But the next day, friend 3 found lvl6 auger while scavenging some poi.
At the moment, crafting is just... bad. Every item you can find, and at the top of that, you can find lvl6 items, while crafting is capped at lvl5.

 

edit: especially now, when crafting is gated behind scavenging magazines.

Why?
Why in crafting game, grafting is unnecessary?

 

Be aware that your situation is normal in some ways, and highly irregular in others.   First of all, the experience of looting is tied to that particular player.  It will NOT reflect that game as a whole, evenly.  RNG is a harsh mistress, as is trader loot.  I'd be really careful of making a judgement of success/failure based upon that without diving into server settings, the relative lootstage/biome/perk rollout of each of the players, and not doing a full comparison between all trader merchandise across the board.  Your results may vary WIDELY and is not representative of everyone's gameplay, both in MP or even moreso in SP.

 

That being said:

 

Crafting is very necessary but only in relation to the whole.  7 Days has a lot of moving parts.  Some of these elements may be considerable during each of the stages of gameplay.  I feel your question wholly misrepresents crafting as a whole versus, say, Tool Crafting.   You will never experience a moment during your gameplay where crafting is useless, as you will continuously need to gain and process resources, whereas you might not need to craft as many weapons/tools/etc.   You may want to try another type of build, swallow your fergit it, and pick up a whole new gear set.

 

This is on top of the subject that has been spoken about at length with the notion of non-craftable t6 weapons and tools.  TFP did this to make them special.   I understand having multiple t6 of the same object feels less special but this is not a factor of coding, but of value placed upon them by we as people.

 

Crafting versus looting is a nuanced monster.   Generalizing the experience and pushing it as a failed system because you feel that you were failed as a player;  I would feel like as a personal issue.     The current crafting and looting system are going through some changes, and even at vanilla setting are noticeable.  I'd be a little more patient and try to glean a deeper perspective than what you currently have.  You're going to experience both worse, and better, over time and across multiple playthroughs.   How fortunate you are will play a massive role in shaping your experiences.  

Edited June 20, 2023 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

[Archael]

Yeah, back, when crafting was tied to perks it was quite of understandable that we could not craft q6 gear (not fully tho), because heavy investment in perk could allow You to craft q6 items at lvl 15 (still schematics and parts would not drop for another 60 lvls).
But with magazines things changed, and people who defend inability of crafting q6 gear seems like not playing a21.
Magazines slows crafting to the point its irrelevant. yes, finally i will be able to craft q5 gear and yes, perhaps my luck will make that no trader and in neiter container i will find this q6 or even q5 auger, but by the time i will be able to craft this, it will be so deep into the game that it will make too much frustration.

I HAVE TO loot, do quests and exploit systems to learn how to craft. But that time i am also looting gear and parts. Its very unlikely that i will not find q5-6 gear by the time im able to craft it. Yet for all my effort put into learning, i should be rewarded.
Please play the game at a21 with default settings, do some quest, and tell me when and how many times you really crafted something by yourself. Lets gather more data than my own.
I really want to know. Is q1 iron armor you crafted by yourself better than q6 scrap armor you have found?
Was you able to craft ratchet before found or being able to buy impact driver?
What gear have you crafted beside ammo, food and vehicles?
And lets stick to magazines, even tho some playstyles in mp coop will have to change, now everyone have to scavenge.
But make this effort worth.
After scavenging hours and days, make people be able to craft what they earned if they will have no luck in finding stuff.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Archael said:

Yeah, back, when crafting was tied to perks it was quite of understandable that we could not craft q6 gear (not fully tho), because heavy investment in perk could allow You to craft q6 items at lvl 15 (still schematics and parts would not drop for another 60 lvls).
But with magazines things changed, and people who defend inability of crafting q6 gear seems like not playing a21.
Magazines slows crafting to the point its irrelevant. yes, finally i will be able to craft q5 gear and yes, perhaps my luck will make that no trader and in neiter container i will find this q6 or even q5 auger, but by the time i will be able to craft this, it will be so deep into the game that it will make too much frustration.

I HAVE TO loot, do quests and exploit systems to learn how to craft. But that time i am also looting gear and parts. Its very unlikely that i will not find q5-6 gear by the time im able to craft it. Yet for all my effort put into learning, i should be rewarded.
Please play the game at a21 with default settings, do some quest, and tell me when and how many times you really crafted something by yourself. Lets gather more data than my own.
I really want to know. Is q1 iron armor you crafted by yourself better than q6 scrap armor you have found?
Was you able to craft ratchet before found or being able to buy impact driver?

 

That one I can already answer, we crafted our first wrench. We are not that far into our game right now.

 

3 hours ago, Archael said:

What gear have you crafted beside ammo, food and vehicles?
And lets stick to magazines, even tho some playstyles in mp coop will have to change, now everyone have to scavenge.
But make this effort worth.
After scavenging hours and days, make people be able to craft what they earned if they will have no luck in finding stuff.

 

What you seem to be missing is that balancing magazines with loot drops is an ongoing effort by TFP. As I said before, In B313 crafting was ultra fast, in B317 it is probably too slow, but in B328(?) it could be the other way round again. Eventually you should be able to craft some and find some stuff.

 

On q6 items: Madmole recently said that they are thinking about making q6 craftable again, because of the new crafting mechanisms. Partly I agree with him (for tier0 and tier1). But this won't change or improve the balance of crafting and looting in my opinion, that must be done by balancing the magazine drop rate and the quality of loot drops.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Moghwyn]

I wonder, would crafting/looting possibly provide a better experience if the skill level would also apply in some way to repairing things? Like, feel free to swing that q4 steel sledge you just found in the trash pile on day 1, no repairs though until you are proficient enough to craft it. Either toss it onto the repair pile once it starts falling apart or dismantle it for materials.

 

Early lucky finds would still be useful, you just wouldn't be set for the rest of your life. It's also an extra incentive to specialize within a group, a skilled crafter remains useful, because someone has to maintain that scavenged gear. Might possibly require some leeway to allow repairing below skill levels, at a penalty. Like, for each missing point, only repair up to (100% - [missing points] x 10%) max durability, so something requiring skill level 50 could only be halfway repaired at skill level 45 (and not repaired at all at skill level 40 or lower).

 

That would also neatly slot in with making q6 items available for crafting again.

 

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Moghwyn said:

I wonder, would crafting/looting possibly provide a better experience if the skill level would also apply in some way to repairing things? Like, feel free to swing that q4 steel sledge you just found in the trash pile on day 1, no repairs though until you are proficient enough to craft it. Either toss it onto the repair pile once it starts falling apart or dismantle it for materials.

 

Early lucky finds would still be useful, you just wouldn't be set for the rest of your life. It's also an extra incentive to specialize within a group, a skilled crafter remains useful, because someone has to maintain that scavenged gear. Might possibly require some leeway to allow repairing below skill levels, at a penalty. Like, for each missing point, only repair up to (100% - [missing points] x 10%) max durability, so something requiring skill level 50 could only be halfway repaired at skill level 45 (and not repaired at all at skill level 40 or lower).

 

That would also neatly slot in with making q6 items available for crafting again.

 

 

 

It is a nice idea. One drawback I see is that people who want to use the same weapon both need the crafting skill so they can repair their weapon in the field. Even worse is the situation for armor and cars.

 

[BFT2020]

Please note that you are also not required to use the gear you find from Traders or during loot.  I did a playthrough (I think it was A19) where the only gear I was able to use were items I crafted myself.  I didn't even sell anything I found while looting (scrapped it down or melted it in the forge) - I could only sell things I made myself.  This was for anything that I could make myself (trader only things were okay to purchase).  Traders ended up being just for basic supplies.

 

In A20, I got into modding and removed the ability to repair equipment and removed the quest reward items from traders (so only dukes).  So I ended up using items I found from looting until it broke or used items I crafted myself.

 

There are options, you just got to be willing to explore.

[Survior]

On 6/17/2023 at 3:10 AM, Archael said:

...why...

Because dear OP, there is only one way to play this sandbox in vanilla and that is the arcade-dungeon-looter-shooter-linear super fun way [tm].

You're not meant to play this game, masquerading as a sandbox, as a sandbox, your meant to do same 5 endless quests all day every day.

It's post apocalyptic capitalism, get on board mate! Work for the_man [tm] or starve!

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Survior (see edit history)

[Archael]

5 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Please note that you are also not required to use the gear you find from Traders or during loot.  I did a playthrough (I think it was A19) where the only gear I was able to use were items I crafted myself.  I didn't even sell anything I found while looting (scrapped it down or melted it in the forge) - I could only sell things I made myself.  This was for anything that I could make myself (trader only things were okay to purchase).  Traders ended up being just for basic supplies.

 

In A20, I got into modding and removed the ability to repair equipment and removed the quest reward items from traders (so only dukes).  So I ended up using items I found from looting until it broke or used items I crafted myself.

 

There are options, you just got to be willing to explore.

Yeah, i was playing that way before a21. I was ignoring traders and focused mostly on mining and crafting my gear, and farming, ocasionally scavenging wrecked cars for mechanical parts, engines etc. but now i have to scavenge do quests and trade to even learn how to craft, i cannot do it by just playing the game as sandbox. There is no way that magazines would ocasionally drop from dismantled vehicles or mined ores, trees or from farming plots.