Sleeper Volume Expansion??

[4sheetzngeegles]

This is a question about sleeper volumes.
More so the adaptation of those volumes.

 

I know this isn't the original intent or use for it, but referring to what
I've observed from the used game mechanics.

 

Can the same mechanic that is used for sleeper volumes, within POI's
be adapted to placeholder volumes? Different times I have read posts
referring to variable locations of loot.

 

The thought is this, If a sleeper volume is a spacial cube that controls
an object meaning zombies, can the mechanic be adapted to apply to other static objects
or placeholders.

 

Since I intentionally play at a deficit, meaning basic melee, bow, and spear while using
stealth. I often have to exit and regroup. When I reenter the Poi, I have observed that all
of the Zombies not dispatched are in a different vector 3, but still within the same volume
control area. Although some are static micro volumes and set to jump scare areas, others are
displaced.

 

I was curious, if this can also be programmed for placeholders.
A hierarchical volume controlled placeholder, plus random\static\poi dependent tags could
allow for a nearly infinite variable of locations for selected objects.

 

Idea a poi is built by designer, specific objects grouped to specific volumetric placeholders
so the original designed Poi still will contain each of the allocated objects. But RNG may
place them in other locations. Like in a development they use four or five models for the houses
but the interior layout is a bit different. In an apocalyptic environment like 7DTD a bloody toaster
could be on the stairs instead of the kitchen. Same house but one person could have a safe behind
picture one, another dragged it to the attic.

 

It could allow for variance, with each poi walkthrough, but without having to create 10 of the same
poi and manually placing the objects. Quests, lootruns, and subtle appearance would vary, with no extra
work. That is after the initial code is written.

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, 4sheetzngeegles said:

Idea a poi is built by designer, specific objects grouped to specific volumetric placeholders
so the original designed Poi still will contain each of the allocated objects. But RNG may
place them in other locations. Like in a development they use four or five models for the houses
but the interior layout is a bit different. In an apocalyptic environment like 7DTD a bloody toaster
could be on the stairs instead of the kitchen. Same house but one person could have a safe behind
picture one, another dragged it to the attic.

 

It could allow for variance, with each poi walkthrough, but without having to create 10 of the same
poi and manually placing the objects. Quests, lootruns, and subtle appearance would vary, with no extra
work. That is after the initial code is written.

This is what parts are for.  Parts can be placed in a POI and they will randomly be there or not be there based on the random chance given to each of them.  Parts are still pretty new to the game and I think are still kind of a work in progress that still need to be filled out with features to make them better but they work pretty well now.  It is just that because they are still new, they aren't used as much as we might like... yet.  You can even set multiple POI in a group that will make it so only one of them appears so you can have them in different locations/orientations.  If you look at the screenshots of Bob's new trader post, you'll see the backhoe in one has the bucket pointing forward and in another, it is turned 90 degrees.  This is an example of how parts can be used on a single object.  The filler POI across from a trader is also a part that allows different ones to be placed at that location.  Parts and helper blocks can give you a lot of variance in the POI and will hopefully be improved over time as well.  I don't know if there was anything stated about whether they are improved for A21 but I haven't seen anything about it.

 

The problem with loot is that you don't really want a loot room that isn't at the end of the run.  If you find it in the middle, it kind of defeats any reason to keep going unless you just really want the trader reward.  And spreading loot out instead of using a loot room would upset many players who want that reward for completing the POI.  It wouldn't matter that they'd get everything either way... they just want a treasure room.  And I feel somewhat the same.  I like a loot room.  But I also will not try to cheese the game and go there without completing the POI.  So it's the reward for completion that it is meant to be.

[4sheetzngeegles]

I only used the word loot because, that's what everything is considered
when scavenging. My main question was regarding the ability of the technology.
I understand your point, and am not thinking of depriving anyone of their prize.

 

Basically i see a volume as an invisible container, as of the inception of sleepers,
its only been used for that. Then I thought about the wall safe block change. In prior
alphas if the block below was destroyed it fell and left loot on the floor with out
any real trying. Then it was adjusted to be in an invisble container. But in a static
location.

 

That's why I asked if other objects, and used the toaster as a reference, setting a
what happened here. For me the thought was more along the lines of creating a visual
story.

 

I watch how things change, and since I don't know the indepth tech behind some of the
mechanics. I ask if mech that was limited before, can be adpted now for more purposes
and or expanded.

 

Most things I present are from playing prior alphas to now and all of the questions i
asked then. Where the main answer was it can't be don yet.

 

My very first question was, on making the cracks in blocks into holes. This alpha they introduced

holes in a door, that can be fought through. A door to me is a semi flattened block.  player placed

blocks follow a rigid model destruction. So i thought of the following as a potential possibility.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by 4sheetzngeegles
a clearer illustration of idea (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

Doors and shapes are 2 completely different things.  Although it would be cool to have shapes that fragment like the new doors, it probably would be less performant then what we have now and too much scope creep at this point.

 

Maybe the next game.

[4sheetzngeegles]

Thank you for the answer Laz Man. I somewhat understand. It came about because
in 15 the blocks were following voxel rule. In police station, if i destroyed them
they shrunk to a mini diamond. Recently the newer pois with more damage, and the
intro of all the new shapes made me think of the rendering above, more as a universal
visual set of downgrade blocks.

 

For every 10 percent reduction to HP it would change, similar to the upgrade process,
but use the same material.

 

Here's to the future though.

 

Hi Ho Hi Ho its off to work I go.

 

4sheetz

[theFlu]

4 hours ago, 4sheetzngeegles said:

Recently the newer pois with more damage, and the
intro of all the new shapes made me think of the rendering above, more as a universal
visual set of downgrade blocks.

There's also a bit of a 3D-problem with destroying blocks. The block should know which side it is being hit from to break like your 2d-example there. Otherwise the "hole" would appear sideways to the damage two out of three times. (horizontal, vertical, through)

Couple blocks being damaged side by side, would be real nice if they broke on the shared face - so they would also need to dynamically figure out where to break.

 

Valheim seems to have a mechanic that might be somewhat applicable; a full rock is a single object, but once you hit it, it's replaced by a pre-split rock, where you can hit the separate parts and they break separately. But Valheim doesn't have thousands upon thousands of them in an area, and their structural integrity is basically "distance to grounded parent". Lobbing a grenade in a 7dtd city might cause a bit of a slideshow as even 20 blocks are swapped at once.

[4sheetzngeegles]

@theFlu

You're right i did think of the 3d aspect, i was going to do an extrusion to see
if and how I could attempt it. I did have possible thoughts about orientation but
its nearly a novella in length. You've probably noticed that i have a tendency of
writing a bit of TL:DR type. What you saw was the condensed version or they would
have gotten poo pooed.

 

I have been off the forum a year, so I think I have cleared my wonder-bug thoughts
for now.

 

It may sound nuts, but my main love for the game is, because, I never adjusted or
modded any game from ultima online in 1997 to now. This one makes my imagination
go into hyperdrive. With all the what ifs that are possible.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

4SheetZ

PS: The semi oval boulders split like valheim also. I play that one also.

Edited May 22, 2023 by 4sheetzngeegles
Added name signiture at beginning (see edit history)

[theFlu]

2 hours ago, 4sheetzngeegles said:

The semi oval boulders split like valheim also. I play that one also.

They do split, but - in the important sense - Not like in Valheim. When the 7dtd boulder splits, the result is still one HP bar, one block. It splits after the first stage is destroyed.

 

In Valheim, when a copper ore block spawns, it's one block. When that block takes any damage, it is replaced by dozens of sections that form the same shape, each with their own HP pool. It's easily seen by the aoe mechanic there; the first swing will always hit exactly one "thing", the next one in the same exact spot often hits several sections.

 

Absolutely not a big deal, but I just hate leaving confusing info in forums ..