7 Days To Die optimization

[Roland]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:18 PM, PR_HW said:

 

First of all, let me tell you that I am a professional in the hardware sector. I have many years designing, building and repairing computers, for all kinds of uses.

 

Well, I was looking at your forum thread, and after seeing your last reply, I've decided to sign up and help you out. Because I see that you are not clear about some basic concepts of computer hardware. And many comments from other people, I think have made you more confused. And before you spend money on buying RAM memory in an absurd way, I prefer that you understand what is happening to you and why.

 

I'll try to explain it to you, with my low level of English...

 

The first thing you have to understand is that a laptop, even if it has "top" hardware (which is not your case), will never be the best option to play. Never a 3600 laptop, it will give you the same performance as a 3600 desktop. A laptop gpu will never give you the same performance as a desktop gpu. Although for example, in both it says that they are a 6800XT, the mobile gpu (laptop), will never have the same performance but in a desktop version. That said, you have to understand that you don't have a laptop with top hardware. And that this game is a game that, although it is a kind of "indie", is a game that requires a lot of resources and good hardware.

 

The second thing you have to understand is that you don't have a cpu + a gpu. You have what is technically known as an APU. Which amounts to what I'm telling you, a cpu that has a gpu incorporated. Therefore, as the other colleague told you in that message, your laptop does not meet the minimum requirements. Since the minimum requirements are 2GB of VRAM on a DEDICATED gpu. There's the keyword: DEDICATED gpu. And it's not that you don't have 2GB, that you don't. YOU DON'T HAVE A DEDICATED GPU. What you have (as the other colleague indicated) is a cpu with integrated gpu (APU) that can manage up to 2GB of the laptop's RAM memory, as VRAM memory for the gpu. But in no case do you have 2GB of VRAM, because you don't even have a dedicated gpu. Therefore, you do not meet the minimum requirement of having a DEDICATED gpu with 2GB of VRAM.

 

Therefore, what you say about the 3rd generation of Ryzen having 2GB VRAM is directly not true. What they do have is an integrated gpu that is capable of handling 2gb of RAM as if it were VRAM. But by itself, the gpu does not have any VRAM. In fact, the 3rd generation APUs, in reality, technically, would not even be 3rd generation at a technical and manufacturing level. Unlike desktop Ryzen CPUs, Ryzen APUs do not have the same features. For example, the ryzen 3000 desktop cpu is manufactured in 7nm, with the zen2 architecture. Instead, the ryzen 3000 APUs are manufactured under a 12nm node and with a zen+ architecture. In other words, to make it easy: The 3rd generation APUs are actually made with the technology of the 2nd generation of the desktop Ryzen.

 

Once this issue is clarified, let me tell you that even if it is an APU and that it is not a TOP hardware to play, it must be said that it is not a bad hardware eh. Especially if we compare it with what Intel offered at that time at the level of laptop and mobility. For a basic notebook, for basic tasks, it's fine and a better choice than Intel's offerings. But that in no case is it designed to play games that are very demanding of resources or triple A games. This does not mean that you cannot play them. In fact, even if you don't meet the minimum requirements, you can still play 7DTD. But it is not designed for that. Hence you have that bad FPS performances in the game. On the other hand, it is a laptop with which you can play well and with many FPS to simpler games at the level of requirements, such as counter strike, valorant, lol, etc.

 

Once I have clarified what type of hardware you have and what it is designed for, I am going to tell you what is the main thing that is taken into account when designing a PC to play. Or that it is the same, which is what has the most impact on the performance of a game. If you are going to play in 1080p resolution, the most important thing is to have a good cpu, with a decent DEDICATED gpu. Those are the two most important elements when setting up a gaming pc. If, on the other hand, you plan to play at higher resolutions, then the cpu loses a bit of importance and a good gpu is needed much more. So you could even downgrade from an i9 to an i7 or an i5, and with a good gpu, the difference would be minimal at 2k and 4k resolutions. Even sometimes, with the same gpu, an i7 can get you more fps than an i9, in some games.

 

Third, as a component that determines performance and fps, we would put RAM. Although, it should be noted that once you have a decent amount of RAM with a decent speed, there comes a time that no matter how much you improve or expand the RAM, the impact on the performance and FPS of the game is minimal or none. That is, it is important only up to a certain point. But it is not a fundamental component when determining the FPS of a game. So, it is true that you go a fair bit of RAM, both in quantity and speed. But in your case, RAM is not your problem. Or it would be the last thing you would have to improve.

 

And lastly, the component that has the least impact on the FPS of a game, is the SSD. In fact, it is not that it has little impact, it is that directly as far as FPS is concerned, there is no difference between an HDD or an SSD. The only performance improvement an SSD provides in a game is game load times. In that if it shows spectacularly. Loading menus, maps, etc. But at the FPS level, there is no difference between using a HDD or an SSD. Since the design of the games makes the loading of data from the disk to be done sequentially. Everything else in the game, the pc loads it in RAM, the different levels of cache of the cpu and the VRAM memory of the gpu. I only mention this point to you, because I have read comments from people telling you that this was the problem. But if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't even mention it to you. Since as I say, the impact on the FPS is zero. Be careful, I'm talking about the impact on the FPS eh, on the general performance if it affects a lot. As I told you, in loading the game, menus, maps, scenarios, etc... of everything that needs to access a disk and load data from there. But as I say, when it comes to purely gaining FPS, it doesn't affect ANYTHING. Because as I told you, everything that refers to the immediate game is loaded in the cache of the cpu, the ram and the Vram.

 

Well, once we have clarified what your hardware is and what are the most important components when it comes to improving fps performance in games, we can look at your case and clearly see that the two things you have mentioned are not going to help you. nothing. Firstly because that big optimization update has been announced since I started playing this game in 2014. And surely they have optimized it, but at the same time, with each new alpha, they add more content, improve textures, bigger maps , etc. So, in these years, the requirements of the game have always been going up. So they optimize? Surely yes. But at the same time, since they add and update so many things in the game, it always comes out on the balance that you need a little bit better hardware every time. From what I tell you: You do not expect that with time and game updates (textures, maps, Unity3D engine, etc), with your laptop you can play with better performance and more fps. These developers, in updates and improvements, always "play" at the limit of the technology of the moment. If you add to this that it is a type of game that, due to its open world characteristics and the enormous freedom it gives you, gives you the result that this game will always be a game that will need good hardware (a hardware that now you you don't have with that laptop). Especially CPU and GPU, if you want to play at good resolutions, with good quality and with good FPS. Play, you can play with not so good hardware, but what is happening to you now happens. That in the end you have to play with bad graphics and low FPS.

 

So... We have already said that waiting for that future update will not give you any improvements. Let's go to the second option you raise: Expand the RAM. As I have told you before, RAM is the 3rd component in terms of performance impact in games (also in many other things). Are you going to gain something by putting another RAM module and doing a dual channel? Yes, you will gain something. But you will surely notice it more in the general system operation, than in the FPS performance in the game. That you can also gain some FPS in the game, but it will be a very low gain. Why? Because as I have told you before, the main components in terms of performance and FPS is the cpu and the gpu, depending on the resolution at which you are going to play. Also, to put the RAM in dual channel, you have to take into account several things to make it work:

- They must be modules of the same capacity.

- They have to be modules with the same speed and latencies (CL)

- And although, it is possible that if you are lucky, the RAM of another brand will work for you (fulfilling the requirements of the previous points), so as not to play it, the ideal is that they are also modules of the same brand and with the same memory chips .

 

Therefore, what you mention about expanding your RAM with a 4gb ram module is not going to help you at all (Remember your module is 8gb). Neither to work in dual channel and nor to improve FPS performance in games. And even more absurd, it would be spending your money to buy 2400Mhz RAM modules, so that you can't even make them work on dual channel.

 

What should be your main objective to improve your FPS in this game or in any other? A dedicated gpu. What is the problem? That your computer is a laptop and will not accept such a beastly modification, such as adding a dedicated gpu inside. Although there are some models that allow it, I don't think it's your case, since it's a low-end laptop. But in any case, you can contact the manufacturer of your laptop, and ask if it would be possible to make this update on your model. But as I told you, I come from a basic model, I don't think it's possible. You have the option of an external dedicated gpu via usb-c. But that is quite expensive and quite difficult to find in stock.

 

The second component that you would have to change (if it was a desktop pc and you could do it), would be the cpu. A 6/12 cpu with a higher clock than your cpu would be ideal for 7DTD and in general for playing any game that requires a bit.

 

And the last thing (not counting the SSD, because I've already explained to you that it doesn't make sense if it's to gain FPS and because you already have one) would be the RAM. But as I told you before, this would only affect it minimally (assuming you have a decent amount, albeit a bit slow). The ideal to play today is 16GB, but with 8GB like you have, you can play many games well, if the other components are good (cpu and gpu). In your case, even if you put 16GB of RAM in dual channel, the change is not going to be significant, because your bottleneck is in the gpu first (because it is an APU and not a dedicated gpu), and then in the cpu. As I was saying, you may notice more of a change in how Windows works than in the game. That is, if you have an FPS counter, something will increase, even if it is very little. But otherwise, without a counter, it is possible that at the level of sensations while you play, you do not notice the change.

 

In summary, what you would have to change to improve performance would be the gpu first, then the cpu, and finally the ram. But the problem is that your computer is a laptop. So basically, the summary would be that the only thing you can do is change your laptop or buy a desktop. Be the first option or the second, if you are going to use it to play, always check that it is NOT an APU (AMD) or an iGPU (Intel). Be it a laptop or a desktop, with a cpu on the one hand and a dedicated gpu on the other. Otherwise, you will always have the same problem to play, except in games like the ones I mentioned before, which are optimized to play online and are competitive: Counter Strike, Valorant, Lol, etc. For everything else, always a dedicated gpu!

 

I think that's all. I hope you have understood everything well, in order to better understand what your problem is and what solutions there are (or not). And most importantly, so that you don't spend money in an absurd way, for example to expand the RAM, in a laptop that is not intended or designed to play. To play well, and even more so in a game as poorly optimized and as demanding of resources as this one, you would directly need to change your computer. My advice is don't spend money on this laptop. And if you want to play, buy one with the characteristics that I have mentioned. And if possible, a desktop better than a laptop. Because as I say, what limits you the most, you cannot change. And what you can change (the RAM), you will not notice practically anything in gaming. Even if you put 32GB at 4,000Mhz, the change would be minimal. Because you have a problem there or a "bottleneck", in the gpu and the cpu. If you had a good cpu and a good gpu, and you wanted to gain some extra FPS there, yes, I would tell you: Change all the ram, put it faster and in dual channel. Put 16 or 32gb. But that is not your case... Your main problem is the lack of a DEDICATED gpu, and that cpu. So, no matter how much ram and how fast you put it, the change would be minimal.

 

Anyway, I hope I have helped. If you need help or advice on anything else, write me and we'll talk.

 

Regards.

 

PS: I'm just here to help and clarify doubts. I'm not here to start debating or arguing with people, if AMD is better, or if Intel is better. Nor for debates that if what I have said is not true, that it is better that he improves, I don't know what. Because now, everyone is an "engineer". Anyone reads an article on the internet or watches 4 videos on this subject, and they are already hardware engineers. And in the forums, it's full of these people, who know more than everyone else. I am not here for those debates or discussions. And I'm not going to get into those discussions. Thanks.

 

 

AND SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH.

 

Amazing post. Thank you. I hope that what you posted will be accepted by those who will naturally want to defend their own purchase of a laptop to play games. 

[Jason Tamosiunis]

On 3/18/2022 at 12:18 AM, PR_HW said:

 

First of all, let me tell you that I am a professional in the hardware sector. I have many years designing, building and repairing computers, for all kinds of uses.

 

Well, I was looking at your forum thread, and after seeing your last reply, I've decided to sign up and help you out. Because I see that you are not clear about some basic concepts of computer hardware. And many comments from other people, I think have made you more confused. And before you spend money on buying RAM memory in an absurd way, I prefer that you understand what is happening to you and why.

 

I'll try to explain it to you, with my low level of English...

 

The first thing you have to understand is that a laptop, even if it has "top" hardware (which is not your case), will never be the best option to play. Never a 3600 laptop, it will give you the same performance as a 3600 desktop. A laptop gpu will never give you the same performance as a desktop gpu. Although for example, in both it says that they are a 6800XT, the mobile gpu (laptop), will never have the same performance but in a desktop version. That said, you have to understand that you don't have a laptop with top hardware. And that this game is a game that, although it is a kind of "indie", is a game that requires a lot of resources and good hardware.

 

The second thing you have to understand is that you don't have a cpu + a gpu. You have what is technically known as an APU. Which amounts to what I'm telling you, a cpu that has a gpu incorporated. Therefore, as the other colleague told you in that message, your laptop does not meet the minimum requirements. Since the minimum requirements are 2GB of VRAM on a DEDICATED gpu. There's the keyword: DEDICATED gpu. And it's not that you don't have 2GB, that you don't. YOU DON'T HAVE A DEDICATED GPU. What you have (as the other colleague indicated) is a cpu with integrated gpu (APU) that can manage up to 2GB of the laptop's RAM memory, as VRAM memory for the gpu. But in no case do you have 2GB of VRAM, because you don't even have a dedicated gpu. Therefore, you do not meet the minimum requirement of having a DEDICATED gpu with 2GB of VRAM.

 

Therefore, what you say about the 3rd generation of Ryzen having 2GB VRAM is directly not true. What they do have is an integrated gpu that is capable of handling 2gb of RAM as if it were VRAM. But by itself, the gpu does not have any VRAM. In fact, the 3rd generation APUs, in reality, technically, would not even be 3rd generation at a technical and manufacturing level. Unlike desktop Ryzen CPUs, Ryzen APUs do not have the same features. For example, the ryzen 3000 desktop cpu is manufactured in 7nm, with the zen2 architecture. Instead, the ryzen 3000 APUs are manufactured under a 12nm node and with a zen+ architecture. In other words, to make it easy: The 3rd generation APUs are actually made with the technology of the 2nd generation of the desktop Ryzen.

 

Once this issue is clarified, let me tell you that even if it is an APU and that it is not a TOP hardware to play, it must be said that it is not a bad hardware eh. Especially if we compare it with what Intel offered at that time at the level of laptop and mobility. For a basic notebook, for basic tasks, it's fine and a better choice than Intel's offerings. But that in no case is it designed to play games that are very demanding of resources or triple A games. This does not mean that you cannot play them. In fact, even if you don't meet the minimum requirements, you can still play 7DTD. But it is not designed for that. Hence you have that bad FPS performances in the game. On the other hand, it is a laptop with which you can play well and with many FPS to simpler games at the level of requirements, such as counter strike, valorant, lol, etc.

 

Once I have clarified what type of hardware you have and what it is designed for, I am going to tell you what is the main thing that is taken into account when designing a PC to play. Or that it is the same, which is what has the most impact on the performance of a game. If you are going to play in 1080p resolution, the most important thing is to have a good cpu, with a decent DEDICATED gpu. Those are the two most important elements when setting up a gaming pc. If, on the other hand, you plan to play at higher resolutions, then the cpu loses a bit of importance and a good gpu is needed much more. So you could even downgrade from an i9 to an i7 or an i5, and with a good gpu, the difference would be minimal at 2k and 4k resolutions. Even sometimes, with the same gpu, an i7 can get you more fps than an i9, in some games.

 

Third, as a component that determines performance and fps, we would put RAM. Although, it should be noted that once you have a decent amount of RAM with a decent speed, there comes a time that no matter how much you improve or expand the RAM, the impact on the performance and FPS of the game is minimal or none. That is, it is important only up to a certain point. But it is not a fundamental component when determining the FPS of a game. So, it is true that you go a fair bit of RAM, both in quantity and speed. But in your case, RAM is not your problem. Or it would be the last thing you would have to improve.

 

And lastly, the component that has the least impact on the FPS of a game, is the SSD. In fact, it is not that it has little impact, it is that directly as far as FPS is concerned, there is no difference between an HDD or an SSD. The only performance improvement an SSD provides in a game is game load times. In that if it shows spectacularly. Loading menus, maps, etc. But at the FPS level, there is no difference between using a HDD or an SSD. Since the design of the games makes the loading of data from the disk to be done sequentially. Everything else in the game, the pc loads it in RAM, the different levels of cache of the cpu and the VRAM memory of the gpu. I only mention this point to you, because I have read comments from people telling you that this was the problem. But if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't even mention it to you. Since as I say, the impact on the FPS is zero. Be careful, I'm talking about the impact on the FPS eh, on the general performance if it affects a lot. As I told you, in loading the game, menus, maps, scenarios, etc... of everything that needs to access a disk and load data from there. But as I say, when it comes to purely gaining FPS, it doesn't affect ANYTHING. Because as I told you, everything that refers to the immediate game is loaded in the cache of the cpu, the ram and the Vram.

 

Well, once we have clarified what your hardware is and what are the most important components when it comes to improving fps performance in games, we can look at your case and clearly see that the two things you have mentioned are not going to help you. nothing. Firstly because that big optimization update has been announced since I started playing this game in 2014. And surely they have optimized it, but at the same time, with each new alpha, they add more content, improve textures, bigger maps , etc. So, in these years, the requirements of the game have always been going up. So they optimize? Surely yes. But at the same time, since they add and update so many things in the game, it always comes out on the balance that you need a little bit better hardware every time. From what I tell you: You do not expect that with time and game updates (textures, maps, Unity3D engine, etc), with your laptop you can play with better performance and more fps. These developers, in updates and improvements, always "play" at the limit of the technology of the moment. If you add to this that it is a type of game that, due to its open world characteristics and the enormous freedom it gives you, gives you the result that this game will always be a game that will need good hardware (a hardware that now you you don't have with that laptop). Especially CPU and GPU, if you want to play at good resolutions, with good quality and with good FPS. Play, you can play with not so good hardware, but what is happening to you now happens. That in the end you have to play with bad graphics and low FPS.

 

So... We have already said that waiting for that future update will not give you any improvements. Let's go to the second option you raise: Expand the RAM. As I have told you before, RAM is the 3rd component in terms of performance impact in games (also in many other things). Are you going to gain something by putting another RAM module and doing a dual channel? Yes, you will gain something. But you will surely notice it more in the general system operation, than in the FPS performance in the game. That you can also gain some FPS in the game, but it will be a very low gain. Why? Because as I have told you before, the main components in terms of performance and FPS is the cpu and the gpu, depending on the resolution at which you are going to play. Also, to put the RAM in dual channel, you have to take into account several things to make it work:

- They must be modules of the same capacity.

- They have to be modules with the same speed and latencies (CL)

- And although, it is possible that if you are lucky, the RAM of another brand will work for you (fulfilling the requirements of the previous points), so as not to play it, the ideal is that they are also modules of the same brand and with the same memory chips .

 

Therefore, what you mention about expanding your RAM with a 4gb ram module is not going to help you at all (Remember your module is 8gb). Neither to work in dual channel and nor to improve FPS performance in games. And even more absurd, it would be spending your money to buy 2400Mhz RAM modules, so that you can't even make them work on dual channel.

 

What should be your main objective to improve your FPS in this game or in any other? A dedicated gpu. What is the problem? That your computer is a laptop and will not accept such a beastly modification, such as adding a dedicated gpu inside. Although there are some models that allow it, I don't think it's your case, since it's a low-end laptop. But in any case, you can contact the manufacturer of your laptop, and ask if it would be possible to make this update on your model. But as I told you, I come from a basic model, I don't think it's possible. You have the option of an external dedicated gpu via usb-c. But that is quite expensive and quite difficult to find in stock.

 

The second component that you would have to change (if it was a desktop pc and you could do it), would be the cpu. A 6/12 cpu with a higher clock than your cpu would be ideal for 7DTD and in general for playing any game that requires a bit.

 

And the last thing (not counting the SSD, because I've already explained to you that it doesn't make sense if it's to gain FPS and because you already have one) would be the RAM. But as I told you before, this would only affect it minimally (assuming you have a decent amount, albeit a bit slow). The ideal to play today is 16GB, but with 8GB like you have, you can play many games well, if the other components are good (cpu and gpu). In your case, even if you put 16GB of RAM in dual channel, the change is not going to be significant, because your bottleneck is in the gpu first (because it is an APU and not a dedicated gpu), and then in the cpu. As I was saying, you may notice more of a change in how Windows works than in the game. That is, if you have an FPS counter, something will increase, even if it is very little. But otherwise, without a counter, it is possible that at the level of sensations while you play, you do not notice the change.

 

In summary, what you would have to change to improve performance would be the gpu first, then the cpu, and finally the ram. But the problem is that your computer is a laptop. So basically, the summary would be that the only thing you can do is change your laptop or buy a desktop. Be the first option or the second, if you are going to use it to play, always check that it is NOT an APU (AMD) or an iGPU (Intel). Be it a laptop or a desktop, with a cpu on the one hand and a dedicated gpu on the other. Otherwise, you will always have the same problem to play, except in games like the ones I mentioned before, which are optimized to play online and are competitive: Counter Strike, Valorant, Lol, etc. For everything else, always a dedicated gpu!

 

I think that's all. I hope you have understood everything well, in order to better understand what your problem is and what solutions there are (or not). And most importantly, so that you don't spend money in an absurd way, for example to expand the RAM, in a laptop that is not intended or designed to play. To play well, and even more so in a game as poorly optimized and as demanding of resources as this one, you would directly need to change your computer. My advice is don't spend money on this laptop. And if you want to play, buy one with the characteristics that I have mentioned. And if possible, a desktop better than a laptop. Because as I say, what limits you the most, you cannot change. And what you can change (the RAM), you will not notice practically anything in gaming. Even if you put 32GB at 4,000Mhz, the change would be minimal. Because you have a problem there or a "bottleneck", in the gpu and the cpu. If you had a good cpu and a good gpu, and you wanted to gain some extra FPS there, yes, I would tell you: Change all the ram, put it faster and in dual channel. Put 16 or 32gb. But that is not your case... Your main problem is the lack of a DEDICATED gpu, and that cpu. So, no matter how much ram and how fast you put it, the change would be minimal.

 

Anyway, I hope I have helped. If you need help or advice on anything else, write me and we'll talk.

 

Regards.

 

PS: I'm just here to help and clarify doubts. I'm not here to start debating or arguing with people, if AMD is better, or if Intel is better. Nor for debates that if what I have said is not true, that it is better that he improves, I don't know what. Because now, everyone is an "engineer". Anyone reads an article on the internet or watches 4 videos on this subject, and they are already hardware engineers. And in the forums, it's full of these people, who know more than everyone else. I am not here for those debates or discussions. And I'm not going to get into those discussions. Thanks.

 

 

AND SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH.

 

any advice for my system would be appreciated

Operating System
    Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz    71 °C
    Wolfdale 45nm Technology
RAM
    4.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 532MHz (7-7-7-20)
Motherboard
    Hewlett-Packard 3048h (XU1 PROCESSOR)
Graphics
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 610 (ZOTAC International)    66 °C
Storage
    465GB Seagate ST3500413AS (SATA )    40 °C
    465GB Seagate ST3500630NS (SATA )    45 °C

[JCrook1028]

11 hours ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

any advice for my system would be appreciated

Operating System
    Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz    71 °C
    Wolfdale 45nm Technology
RAM
    4.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 532MHz (7-7-7-20)
Motherboard
    Hewlett-Packard 3048h (XU1 PROCESSOR)
Graphics
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 610 (ZOTAC International)    66 °C
Storage
    465GB Seagate ST3500413AS (SATA )    40 °C
    465GB Seagate ST3500630NS (SATA )    45 °C

You need a new ....................... everything. I guess the SSD's can stay, one as a OS drive and one as a game drive if you limit your installed games with a nice size drive added for data. If building tho I'd put the OS on a Nvme.

[SylenThunder]

@Jason Tamosiunis Pretty much what JCrook1028 said.

 

The PC I use for "min-spec" testing is a Core 2 Quad Q6600 with 8GB DDR3 666MHz RAM, and a GTX 660Ti 2GB as that meets min specs pretty much exactly. You are below that in everything except single-core speed.

[Jason Tamosiunis]

TY jcrook and sylen but with all due respect i will wait for the person i tagged to respond

On 3/18/2022 at 12:25 PM, Vintorez said:

Disable Dynamic Mesh and lower the related settings under it.

 

Also locate the boot.config file in your installation and change it to match the below. It will however trigger EAC if playing on public servers so only do so if you play single or with friends and have EAC disabled.

 

gfx-enable-gfx-jobs=1
gfx-enable-native-gfx-jobs=1
wait-for-native-de bug ger=0        <----get rid of the two spaces, triggered profanity filter lol
scripting-runtime-version=latest
vr-enabled=0
hdr-display-enabled=0
gc-max-time-slice=3

 

With RTX2080 and i7-9700k at 1440p, went from 30FPS in cities to stable 72 (half vsync for my monitor) aside from some small drops as new POIs are loaded in. Haven't checked how zombie hordes affect it now but at least roaming is waaay better. Most settings on high except for like reflected shadows.

vin i would like to thank you for mentioning to disable dynamic mesh that helped me a ton

[PR_HW]

On 3/20/2022 at 4:44 AM, Jason Tamosiunis said:

any advice for my system would be appreciated

Operating System
    Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz    71 °C
    Wolfdale 45nm Technology
RAM
    4.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 532MHz (7-7-7-20)
Motherboard
    Hewlett-Packard 3048h (XU1 PROCESSOR)
Graphics
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 610 (ZOTAC International)    66 °C
Storage
    465GB Seagate ST3500413AS (SATA )    40 °C
    465GB Seagate ST3500630NS (SATA )    45 °C

 

 

Hello Jason.

 

Sorry that I am late in answering.

 

I've been looking at your pc specs. I understand that your query and the advice you asked for is to play this game, right?

 

As two fellow forum members have previously told you, this computer is very old. It is not worth spending money to update anything, if we are talking about an update to be able to play 7DTD.

 

The CPU is a very old processor from 2008. Basically it is a 2 core (ideally, today it is 6-8 cores, for gaming). The motherboard is probably a custom one (Possibly by Asus). So it is difficult to have a large update margin. and you have insufficient RAM both in quantity and speed. Surely with that pc, the game won't even run... It wouldn't even open.

 

It is speculation, because logically, as you can understand, I have not tested all the hardware on the market in the last 20 years, with all the combinations that this implies. And although it is possible that by a miracle, you could open it (not play), if I had to bet money, I would bet that you could not even open it with that hardware. In fact, I'm even surprised that you can run windows 10 fine, on this computer. Possibly it is causing you more negative than positive things, the fact of having that windows on that computer.

 

From my point of view, the only thing you could possibly use, would be the gpu. And I can't assure you either, because although it meets the requirement of having 2GB of VRAM in a dedicated GPU, the issue is that it is a GPU from the year 2012 with PCIe 2.0 and DDR3 memory! Look, so you can get an idea of how outdated that graphics card is, even though it meets the requirement of having 2GB of memory. Your gpu has 48 CUDA cores. An RTX 3050, which is the most basic model of the current generation, has 2560 CUDA cores. Do you see the brutal difference? But even if we compare it to a GTX 1050, which is from 2016, it has between 640 and 768 CUDA cores (depending on the model) and GDDR5 memory.

 

Having said all this, with that pc you have it very difficult to play this game. So I advise you to replace it completely, including the gpu, as I mentioned in the previous paragraph.

 

If you are interested, I can help you and advise you on the configuration of a new PC. You tell me in which store you want to buy it, and I, seeing the components that store has, I can advise you the best options, within your budget.

 

You keep in mind, you don't need a high-end computer either. For example, today an Intel i3, which is 4/8 (cores/threads), is more powerful than, for example, the old i7-7700. And although the ideal for gaming is a 6 or 8 core, for maximum performance and to make a purchase with a little margin for the future, with a 12th generation 4/8, you could play everything without a problem, if you accompany it with a decent gpu. Although I optimize it and as I say, it is a purchase that has a little future, it would be at least an i5-12400 (6/12). I am talking about Intel, because right now it is the one with the best options in the entry ranges. But if you want AMD, we can also look at it. Although right now the offer they have in that range is not very interesting, it is planned that they will soon launch some Ryzen 3, to compete against Intel in that range. But I still don't have data on the performance and efficiency of these new Ryzen 3. Therefore, I don't know how good they will be. And I don't like to recommend things that I haven't tried and that I don't know perfectly well.

 

You can start by changing motherboard, cpu, ram, 1 ssd (even SATA) and psu. And try with that gpu, to see if it works for you and how it works for you. And then if it doesn't work for you or it works badly for you, then put a new gpu.

 

This would be my recommendation, since unlike the other user, who was clearly limited by the gpu, you are clearly limited by that old hardware of cpu, ram, etc. And the motherboard limits you from being able to upgrade those components.

 

I think this is all... I'm sorry to give you bad news, but your computer is very old.

 

Well, if you need help, you already know it. You write me here, or you write me by private message, and I can help you in the configuration of a new PC.

 

Greetings.

 

[Pernicious]

On 3/20/2022 at 2:27 AM, Roland said:

Amazing post. Thank you. I hope that what you posted will be accepted by those who will naturally want to defend their own purchase of a laptop to play games. 

 

And for those who do, there's one other thing I want to point out. I have a work laptop. It's powered off an Intel i7 8665u. When I first got it, the fans were whirring all the time, and it was slower than expected. Why? Thermal throttling:

 

Ignore the score. Have a look at the difference between a "poor" example and a "great" example. There's a spread of 32%.

 

Now compare that against a desktop CPU - The spread is only 18%

 

What am I trying to prove here? The performance of a CPU is not based purely on the CPU itself. The design of the the rest of the system has a huge impact. This is more than the typical silicon lottery that you see in desktop CPUs. Because part of designing a laptop is to weigh off power consumption, heat management, and performance. Your laptop might have a bleeding edge, top of the line CPU, but if the designers prioritised battery life and laptop thinness, it might under perform a much cheaper CPU in a well designed laptop.

 

Back to my laptop? The fan used to annoy me so much, I replaced the cheap toothpaste with liquid metal. The fans now are only on when I really load it up. It no longer thermally throttles, and it benchmarks over 20% faster.

 

Just because you have a high spec laptop, doesn't mean you're getting what you paid for.

[Jason Tamosiunis]

1 hour ago, PR_HW said:

 

 

Hello Jason.

 

Sorry that I am late in answering.

 

I've been looking at your pc specs. I understand that your query and the advice you asked for is to play this game, right?

 

As two fellow forum members have previously told you, this computer is very old. It is not worth spending money to update anything, if we are talking about an update to be able to play 7DTD.

 

The CPU is a very old processor from 2008. Basically it is a 2 core (ideally, today it is 6-8 cores, for gaming). The motherboard is probably a custom one (Possibly by Asus). So it is difficult to have a large update margin. and you have insufficient RAM both in quantity and speed. Surely with that pc, the game won't even run... It wouldn't even open.

 

It is speculation, because logically, as you can understand, I have not tested all the hardware on the market in the last 20 years, with all the combinations that this implies. And although it is possible that by a miracle, you could open it (not play), if I had to bet money, I would bet that you could not even open it with that hardware. In fact, I'm even surprised that you can run windows 10 fine, on this computer. Possibly it is causing you more negative than positive things, the fact of having that windows on that computer.

 

From my point of view, the only thing you could possibly use, would be the gpu. And I can't assure you either, because although it meets the requirement of having 2GB of VRAM in a dedicated GPU, the issue is that it is a GPU from the year 2012 with PCIe 2.0 and DDR3 memory! Look, so you can get an idea of how outdated that graphics card is, even though it meets the requirement of having 2GB of memory. Your gpu has 48 CUDA cores. An RTX 3050, which is the most basic model of the current generation, has 2560 CUDA cores. Do you see the brutal difference? But even if we compare it to a GTX 1050, which is from 2016, it has between 640 and 768 CUDA cores (depending on the model) and GDDR5 memory.

 

Having said all this, with that pc you have it very difficult to play this game. So I advise you to replace it completely, including the gpu, as I mentioned in the previous paragraph.

 

If you are interested, I can help you and advise you on the configuration of a new PC. You tell me in which store you want to buy it, and I, seeing the components that store has, I can advise you the best options, within your budget.

 

You keep in mind, you don't need a high-end computer either. For example, today an Intel i3, which is 4/8 (cores/threads), is more powerful than, for example, the old i7-7700. And although the ideal for gaming is a 6 or 8 core, for maximum performance and to make a purchase with a little margin for the future, with a 12th generation 4/8, you could play everything without a problem, if you accompany it with a decent gpu. Although I optimize it and as I say, it is a purchase that has a little future, it would be at least an i5-12400 (6/12). I am talking about Intel, because right now it is the one with the best options in the entry ranges. But if you want AMD, we can also look at it. Although right now the offer they have in that range is not very interesting, it is planned that they will soon launch some Ryzen 3, to compete against Intel in that range. But I still don't have data on the performance and efficiency of these new Ryzen 3. Therefore, I don't know how good they will be. And I don't like to recommend things that I haven't tried and that I don't know perfectly well.

 

You can start by changing motherboard, cpu, ram, 1 ssd (even SATA) and psu. And try with that gpu, to see if it works for you and how it works for you. And then if it doesn't work for you or it works badly for you, then put a new gpu.

 

This would be my recommendation, since unlike the other user, who was clearly limited by the gpu, you are clearly limited by that old hardware of cpu, ram, etc. And the motherboard limits you from being able to upgrade those components.

 

I think this is all... I'm sorry to give you bad news, but your computer is very old.

 

Well, if you need help, you already know it. You write me here, or you write me by private message, and I can help you in the configuration of a new PC.

 

Greetings.

 

thx for the advice and i know im even surprised the game does open and does run kind of ok when im not in a city and store wise where i live i think the best i could do is either the apple store we have downtown or the source

[SylenThunder]

6 hours ago, Pernicious said:

Just because you have a high spec laptop, doesn't mean you're getting what you paid for.

The same can be said for desktops. Many companies have been shipping systems without first configuring the XMP profile for the RAM. Which means that you get a system with the RAM running at the "safe" system default, which is usually almost half of its rated speed.  And that's just the beginning of the absolute lack of optimization in a pre-built system.

 

Then there is the bloatware, and the security software to exclude the client from. They might even install software that conflicts just because it was sponsored.

 

Also, to expand on PR_HW's earlier post about all of the hardware specs, and his more recent one on thermal throttling...

You can expect your laptop CPU to perform roughly 40-60% slower in comparison to its direct desktop equivalent. For example, in the case of the i7-9900k versus the i7-9900H, the difference is almost exactly 60%. This is real-world results, not looking at some review charts. Thermal throttling is one of the main reasons. And it's not like the average person is capable of applying liquid metal properly, much less on a laptop where it's questionable if it will even be capable of doing it based on manufacturer design. (Although maybe they make thermal pads now too? Even then disassembling a laptop is not an easy feat for most people.)

[JCrook1028]

12 hours ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

thx for the advice and i know im even surprised the game does open and does run kind of ok when im not in a city and store wise where i live i think the best i could do is either the apple store we have downtown or the source

My 2c, for gaming. Stay as far away from the Apple store as you can. If you're even just reasonably competent it's not hard to build the PC itself (think legos for adults) after just watching some YouTube videos on it for a cpl weeks. Then it's easy, using advice from the very generous and knowledgeable PR_HW shop out your desired hardware on something like PC Parts Picker website and Amazon/Newegg will deliver the components right to your door. What store is local doesn't really matter unless you are one of the lucky ones to have a MicroCenter nearby. Then go do your shopping there.

[FinkPloyd]

On 3/12/2022 at 8:48 PM, RudyPolak said:

Ryzen 5 2500u had 1gb Dedicated VRAM, though 3rd gen Ryzen 5 does have 2gb already

 

Can you link me to that?

 

According to the spec sheet at AMD.com the Ryzen 5 3500u has 2 Gb level 2 cache, which is not VRAM.

 

See the much more detail answer above.

[alexbillah]

On 3/18/2022 at 11:18 AM, PR_HW said:

 

First of all, let me tell you that I am a professional in the hardware sector. I have many years designing, building and repairing computers, for all kinds of uses.

 

Well, I was looking at your forum thread, and after seeing your last reply, I've decided to sign up and help you out. Because I see that you are not clear about some basic concepts of computer hardware. And many comments from other people, I think have made you more confused. And before you spend money on buying RAM memory in an absurd way, I prefer that you understand what is happening to you and why.

 

I'll try to explain it to you, with my low level of English...

 

The first thing you have to understand is that a laptop, even if it has "top" hardware (which is not your case), will never be the best option to play. Never a 3600 laptop, it will give you the same performance as a 3600 desktop. A laptop gpu will never give you the same performance as a desktop gpu. Although for example, in both it says that they are a 6800XT, the mobile gpu (laptop), will never have the same performance but in a desktop version. That said, you have to understand that you don't have a laptop with top hardware. And that this game is a game that, although it is a kind of "indie", is a game that requires a lot of resources and good hardware.

 

The second thing you have to understand is that you don't have a cpu + a gpu. You have what is technically known as an APU. Which amounts to what I'm telling you, a cpu that has a gpu incorporated. Therefore, as the other colleague told you in that message, your laptop does not meet the minimum requirements. Since the minimum requirements are 2GB of VRAM on a DEDICATED gpu. There's the keyword: DEDICATED gpu. And it's not that you don't have 2GB, that you don't. YOU DON'T HAVE A DEDICATED GPU. What you have (as the other colleague indicated) is a cpu with integrated gpu (APU) that can manage up to 2GB of the laptop's RAM memory, as VRAM memory for the gpu. But in no case do you have 2GB of VRAM, because you don't even have a dedicated gpu. Therefore, you do not meet the minimum requirement of having a DEDICATED gpu with 2GB of VRAM.

 

Therefore, what you say about the 3rd generation of Ryzen having 2GB VRAM is directly not true. What they do have is an integrated gpu that is capable of handling 2gb of RAM as if it were VRAM. But by itself, the gpu does not have any VRAM. In fact, the 3rd generation APUs, in reality, technically, would not even be 3rd generation at a technical and manufacturing level. Unlike desktop Ryzen CPUs, Ryzen APUs do not have the same features. For example, the ryzen 3000 desktop cpu is manufactured in 7nm, with the zen2 architecture. Instead, the ryzen 3000 APUs are manufactured under a 12nm node and with a zen+ architecture. In other words, to make it easy: The 3rd generation APUs are actually made with the technology of the 2nd generation of the desktop Ryzen.

 

Once this issue is clarified, let me tell you that even if it is an APU and that it is not a TOP hardware to play, it must be said that it is not a bad hardware eh. Especially if we compare it with what Intel offered at that time at the level of laptop and mobility. For a basic notebook, for basic tasks, it's fine and a better choice than Intel's offerings. But that in no case is it designed to play games that are very demanding of resources or triple A games. This does not mean that you cannot play them. In fact, even if you don't meet the minimum requirements, you can still play 7DTD. But it is not designed for that. Hence you have that bad FPS performances in the game. On the other hand, it is a laptop with which you can play well and with many FPS to simpler games at the level of requirements, such as counter strike, valorant, lol, etc.

 

Once I have clarified what type of hardware you have and what it is designed for, I am going to tell you what is the main thing that is taken into account when designing a PC to play. Or that it is the same, which is what has the most impact on the performance of a game. If you are going to play in 1080p resolution, the most important thing is to have a good cpu, with a decent DEDICATED gpu. Those are the two most important elements when setting up a gaming pc. If, on the other hand, you plan to play at higher resolutions, then the cpu loses a bit of importance and a good gpu is needed much more. So you could even downgrade from an i9 to an i7 or an i5, and with a good gpu, the difference would be minimal at 2k and 4k resolutions. Even sometimes, with the same gpu, an i7 can get you more fps than an i9, in some games.

 

Third, as a component that determines performance and fps, we would put RAM. Although, it should be noted that once you have a decent amount of RAM with a decent speed, there comes a time that no matter how much you improve or expand the RAM, the impact on the performance and FPS of the game is minimal or none. That is, it is important only up to a certain point. But it is not a fundamental component when determining the FPS of a game. So, it is true that you go a fair bit of RAM, both in quantity and speed. But in your case, RAM is not your problem. Or it would be the last thing you would have to improve.

 

And lastly, the component that has the least impact on the FPS of a game, is the SSD. In fact, it is not that it has little impact, it is that directly as far as FPS is concerned, there is no difference between an HDD or an SSD. The only performance improvement an SSD provides in a game is game load times. In that if it shows spectacularly. Loading menus, maps, etc. But at the FPS level, there is no difference between using a HDD or an SSD. Since the design of the games makes the loading of data from the disk to be done sequentially. Everything else in the game, the pc loads it in RAM, the different levels of cache of the cpu and the VRAM memory of the gpu. I only mention this point to you, because I have read comments from people telling you that this was the problem. But if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't even mention it to you. Since as I say, the impact on the FPS is zero. Be careful, I'm talking about the impact on the FPS eh, on the general performance if it affects a lot. As I told you, in loading the game, menus, maps, scenarios, etc... of everything that needs to access a disk and load data from there. But as I say, when it comes to purely gaining FPS, it doesn't affect ANYTHING. Because as I told you, everything that refers to the immediate game is loaded in the cache of the cpu, the ram and the Vram.

 

Well, once we have clarified what your hardware is and what are the most important components when it comes to improving fps performance in games, we can look at your case and clearly see that the two things you have mentioned are not going to help you. nothing. Firstly because that big optimization update has been announced since I started playing this game in 2014. And surely they have optimized it, but at the same time, with each new alpha, they add more content, improve textures, bigger maps , etc. So, in these years, the requirements of the game have always been going up. So they optimize? Surely yes. But at the same time, since they add and update so many things in the game, it always comes out on the balance that you need a little bit better hardware every time. From what I tell you: You do not expect that with time and game updates (textures, maps, Unity3D engine, etc), with your laptop you can play with better performance and more fps. These developers, in updates and improvements, always "play" at the limit of the technology of the moment. If you add to this that it is a type of game that, due to its open world characteristics and the enormous freedom it gives you, gives you the result that this game will always be a game that will need good hardware (a hardware that now you you don't have with that laptop). Especially CPU and GPU, if you want to play at good resolutions, with good quality and with good FPS. Play, you can play with not so good hardware, but what is happening to you now happens. That in the end you have to play with bad graphics and low FPS.

 

So... We have already said that waiting for that future update will not give you any improvements. Let's go to the second option you raise: Expand the RAM. As I have told you before, RAM is the 3rd component in terms of performance impact in games (also in many other things). Are you going to gain something by putting another RAM module and doing a dual channel? Yes, you will gain something. But you will surely notice it more in the general system operation, than in the FPS performance in the game. That you can also gain some FPS in the game, but it will be a very low gain. Why? Because as I have told you before, the main components in terms of performance and FPS is the cpu and the gpu, depending on the resolution at which you are going to play. Also, to put the RAM in dual channel, you have to take into account several things to make it work:

- They must be modules of the same capacity.

- They have to be modules with the same speed and latencies (CL)

- And although, it is possible that if you are lucky, the RAM of another brand will work for you (fulfilling the requirements of the previous points), so as not to play it, the ideal is that they are also modules of the same brand and with the same memory chips .

 

Therefore, what you mention about expanding your RAM with a 4gb ram module is not going to help you at all (Remember your module is 8gb). Neither to work in dual channel and nor to improve FPS performance in games. And even more absurd, it would be spending your money to buy 2400Mhz RAM modules, so that you can't even make them work on dual channel.

 

What should be your main objective to improve your FPS in this game or in any other? A dedicated gpu. What is the problem? That your computer is a laptop and will not accept such a beastly modification, such as adding a dedicated gpu inside. Although there are some models that allow it, I don't think it's your case, since it's a low-end laptop. But in any case, you can contact the manufacturer of your laptop, and ask if it would be possible to make this update on your model. But as I told you, I come from a basic model, I don't think it's possible. You have the option of an external dedicated gpu via usb-c. But that is quite expensive and quite difficult to find in stock.

 

The second component that you would have to change (if it was a desktop pc and you could do it), would be the cpu. A 6/12 cpu with a higher clock than your cpu would be ideal for 7DTD and in general for playing any game that requires a bit.

 

And the last thing (not counting the SSD, because I've already explained to you that it doesn't make sense if it's to gain FPS and because you already have one) would be the RAM. But as I told you before, this would only affect it minimally (assuming you have a decent amount, albeit a bit slow). The ideal to play today is 16GB, but with 8GB like you have, you can play many games well, if the other components are good (cpu and gpu). In your case, even if you put 16GB of RAM in dual channel, the change is not going to be significant, because your bottleneck is in the gpu first (because it is an APU and not a dedicated gpu), and then in the cpu. As I was saying, you may notice more of a change in how Windows works than in the game. That is, if you have an FPS counter, something will increase, even if it is very little. But otherwise, without a counter, it is possible that at the level of sensations while you play, you do not notice the change.

 

In summary, what you would have to change to improve performance would be the gpu first, then the cpu, and finally the ram. But the problem is that your computer is a laptop. So basically, the summary would be that the only thing you can do is change your laptop or buy a desktop. Be the first option or the second, if you are going to use it to play, always check that it is NOT an APU (AMD) or an iGPU (Intel). Be it a laptop or a desktop, with a cpu on the one hand and a dedicated gpu on the other. Otherwise, you will always have the same problem to play, except in games like the ones I mentioned before, which are optimized to play online and are competitive: Counter Strike, Valorant, Lol, etc. For everything else, always a dedicated gpu!

 

I think that's all. I hope you have understood everything well, in order to better understand what your problem is and what solutions there are (or not). And most importantly, so that you don't spend money in an absurd way, for example to expand the RAM, in a laptop that is not intended or designed to play. To play well, and even more so in a game as poorly optimized and as demanding of resources as this one, you would directly need to change your computer. My advice is don't spend money on this laptop. And if you want to play, buy one with the characteristics that I have mentioned. And if possible, a desktop better than a laptop. Because as I say, what limits you the most, you cannot change. And what you can change (the RAM), you will not notice practically anything in gaming. Even if you put 32GB at 4,000Mhz, the change would be minimal. Because you have a problem there or a "bottleneck", in the gpu and the cpu. If you had a good cpu and a good gpu, and you wanted to gain some extra FPS there, yes, I would tell you: Change all the ram, put it faster and in dual channel. Put 16 or 32gb. But that is not your case... Your main problem is the lack of a DEDICATED gpu, and that cpu. So, no matter how much ram and how fast you put it, the change would be minimal.

 

Anyway, I hope I have helped. If you need help or advice on anything else, write me and we'll talk.

 

Regards.

 

PS: I'm just here to help and clarify doubts. I'm not here to start debating or arguing with people, if AMD is better, or if Intel is better. Nor for debates that if what I have said is not true, that it is better that he improves, I don't know what. Because now, everyone is an "engineer". Anyone reads an article on the internet or watches 4 videos on this subject, and they are already hardware engineers. And in the forums, it's full of these people, who know more than everyone else. I am not here for those debates or discussions. And I'm not going to get into those discussions. Thanks.

 

 

AND SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH.

 

Agree.