Modlet Improved Hordes [V1.0]

[Agame]

I have noticed similar to above, whenever I go back to my base there is always a couple of hordes in or around it, and this is even when I have nothing 'running' in the base like a forge while I am away. I have a very minimal base as I play semi nomadic, but I still need somewhere to craft stuff. Its like the AI is just attracted to your base location regardless.

 

Its annoying as I have been playing with VERY large hordes as I love to see them roaming the map, having to dodge around them or even abandon looting a POI when they show up. But having to wade through hundreds of Z every time I go back to base is tiring.

 

Playing latest version also.

[Agame]

Related question, is this section the main way the hordes interact with heat:

 

<!-- Events -->
    <event_chunk_radius>3</event_chunk_radius>
    <event_interest_distance_multiplier>0.5</event_interest_distance_multiplier>

 

I assume lowering that would make them less likely to pile in on the base?

[FilUnderscore]

5 hours ago, Agame said:

Related question, is this section the main way the hordes interact with heat:

 

<!-- Events -->
    <event_chunk_radius>3</event_chunk_radius>
    <event_interest_distance_multiplier>0.5</event_interest_distance_multiplier>

 

I assume lowering that would make them less likely to pile in on the base?

Should do, the second setting affects the attraction distance as a multiplier. I'll need to do some more testing with the AI.

[Agame]

Ok, update, I reset everything back to default and played about a week (in game), and its almost the opposite problem, not seeing enough hordes.

 

So I think its either somehow the extreme numbers I set for the hordes changed the behaviour or possibly I had some other settings I had changed and forgot about, either way you should possibly ignore my previous comments!

 

But I am going to keep testing and experimenting with the settings as I have a specific style I would like to get working for the mod.

[-Holo-]

Update from here too!
set the chunk event radius to 0, and seems like it was indeed "heathordes" that came several times a night.

Rarely seeing any hordes now though at all when out and about, only seen one large that kinda popped in standing downtown, and stayed there standing around (?)

Does the mod change spawning of regular zombies or screamers in the world?

[Agame]

Is there a toggle for 'feral senses' on the hordes? I thought there was in a previous version, or do they just use the global setting when you start a game?

[FilUnderscore]

16 hours ago, -Holo- said:

Update from here too!
set the chunk event radius to 0, and seems like it was indeed "heathordes" that came several times a night.

Rarely seeing any hordes now though at all when out and about, only seen one large that kinda popped in standing downtown, and stayed there standing around (?)

Does the mod change spawning of regular zombies or screamers in the world?

Nope, mod doesn't touch any vanilla spawns (and screamer spawns were reverted in the latest update). Could feel like this because of the distance that heat attracts hordes from. Have you tried tinkering with the event_interest_distance_multiplier and maybe going 0.1 or 0.25 to reduce the heat range while keeping chunk_event_radius at 3?

 

Also how are the other biomes faring, have you been to harder difficulty biomes as they have more hordes active?

 

8 hours ago, Agame said:

Is there a toggle for 'feral senses' on the hordes? I thought there was in a previous version, or do they just use the global setting when you start a game?

There was a toggle for the new AI sensing which was removed as it's now always active, though I am still looking to amplify their senses if you've got feral sense on.

 

The issue with balancing is trying to get it feeling "just right", and what feels right for one person might not for another. That's what I'm trying to bridge by having the settings and specifics be easily tweakable, but it's still hard to test unless you play for hours on end.

[Agame]

10 hours ago, FilUnderscore said:

The issue with balancing is trying to get it feeling "just right", and what feels right for one person might not for another. That's what I'm trying to bridge by having the settings and specifics be easily tweakable, but it's still hard to test unless you play for hours on end.

 

Yes I can see balancing is a nightmare, so much randomness depending on player movement vs what the hordes are doing, you would probably need 50 - 100 people all testing it at the same time to really get a good idea.

 

And you are right that its hard to balance for the audience as I think people are using this for very different reasons, some people just want a small bump in hordes for a little extra spice in gameplay, and some people want to use the mod as an alternative to horde night as a real end game threat. So I wonder if it is possible to create an option/menu screen that you could give people some selections for the mod? Or possibly that is way to difficult to implement.

[-Holo-]

7 hours ago, FilUnderscore said:

Nope, mod doesn't touch any vanilla spawns (and screamer spawns were reverted in the latest update). Could feel like this because of the distance that heat attracts hordes from. Have you tried tinkering with the event_interest_distance_multiplier and maybe going 0.1 or 0.25 to reduce the heat range while keeping chunk_event_radius at 3?

 

Also how are the other biomes faring, have you been to harder difficulty biomes as they have more hordes active?

 

There was a toggle for the new AI sensing which was removed as it's now always active, though I am still looking to amplify their senses if you've got feral sense on.

 

The issue with balancing is trying to get it feeling "just right", and what feels right for one person might not for another. That's what I'm trying to bridge by having the settings and specifics be easily tweakable, but it's still hard to test unless you play for hours on end.

Haven't tested with event_interest multiplier, but went out to the desert and had a blast!

a quite large horde came running quite close to base, after dispatching it screamers took notice and came looking, and for once, summoned in a buttload of more zombies, including more screamers. It was glorious!

Having weird issues with a severe lack of zombies spawning overall though that i'm trying to figure out currently.

 

 

 

 

[Agame]

1 hour ago, -Holo- said:

Haven't tested with event_interest multiplier, but went out to the desert and had a blast!

a quite large horde came running quite close to base, after dispatching it screamers took notice and came looking, and for once, summoned in a buttload of more zombies, including more screamers. It was glorious!

Having weird issues with a severe lack of zombies spawning overall though that i'm trying to figure out currently.

 

 

 

 

 

My favourite experience is when I am in the middle of exploring a POI and a massive horde shows up, it suddenly becomes a mini horde night in a random POI and you have to get creative to survive! It creates the kind of tension that is completely lacking from Vanilla bloodmoon, that is so predictable and mundane. 

[-Holo-]

10 hours ago, Agame said:

 

My favourite experience is when I am in the middle of exploring a POI and a massive horde shows up, it suddenly becomes a mini horde night in a random POI and you have to get creative to survive! It creates the kind of tension that is completely lacking from Vanilla bloodmoon, that is so predictable and mundane. 

Yeah. Had a fun experience looting a basement in a building when I heard a larger-then-normal commotion, and looked out some cellarwindows and saw legs! everywhere.
Suddenly it turned into a mad chase to not get boxed in the cellar

The Bloodmoon nights we have disabled at the server, they just don't fill any purpose anymore

 

[FilUnderscore]

16 hours ago, Agame said:

So I wonder if it is possible to create an option/menu screen that you could give people some selections for the mod? Or possibly that is way to difficult to implement.

There is an integration with my other mod, Mod Manager, which pretty much allows that to be done in a specific mod settings tab. It existed in the first version of Improved Hordes, however I've rewritten the mod since then and haven't re-implemented support yet. The stable version should support UI settings (with Mod Manager) when it comes out.

 

16 hours ago, -Holo- said:

Haven't tested with event_interest multiplier, but went out to the desert and had a blast!

a quite large horde came running quite close to base, after dispatching it screamers took notice and came looking, and for once, summoned in a buttload of more zombies, including more screamers. It was glorious!

Having weird issues with a severe lack of zombies spawning overall though that i'm trying to figure out currently.

The pine forest by default has much less hordes roaming about, but as you go to harder biomes you get more and more. Fun awaits in the wasteland!

 

Regarding zombie spawning, consider looking at max_spawn_capacity_percent in the settings and lowering that number to allow more non-horde zombies to spawn if you're finding they are hitting the spawn limit, or alternatively increase your MaxSpawnedZombies game setting.

[-Holo-]

1 minute ago, FilUnderscore said:

There is an integration with my other mod, Mod Manager, which pretty much allows that to be done in a specific mod settings tab. It existed in the first version of Improved Hordes, however I've rewritten the mod since then and haven't re-implemented support yet. The stable version should support UI settings (with Mod Manager) when it comes out.

 

The pine forest by default has much less hordes roaming about, but as you go to harder biomes you get more and more. Fun awaits in the wasteland!

 

Regarding zombie spawning, consider looking at max_spawn_capacity_percent in the settings and lowering that number to allow more non-horde zombies to spawn if you're finding they are hitting the spawn limit, or alternatively increase your MaxSpawnedZombies game setting.

 

I set the MaxSpawnedZombies to 5120 to test if anything like that was effing about, but no change 😕 running around downtown districts but rarely even seeing a zombie out and about

Would it be possible from a debug standpoint to put one of the dot sprites or something  atop your mods zombieshead to differntiate from regular zombies?
I modded up spawning xml from khaines dangerous cities to a large increase and slower respawntime, a bunch of zombies were around for first start, but after a while it's back to normal and no zombies in this zombie game.
 

 

       

[FilUnderscore]

3 minutes ago, -Holo- said:

I set the MaxSpawnedZombies to 5120 to test if anything like that was effing about, but no change 😕 running around downtown districts but rarely even seeing a zombie out and about

Would it be possible from a debug standpoint to put one of the dot sprites or something  atop your mods zombieshead to differntiate from regular zombies?
I modded up spawning xml from khaines dangerous cities to a large increase and slower respawntime, a bunch of zombies were around for first start, but after a while it's back to normal and no zombies in this zombie game.

I've got map markers on zombies spawned by the mod in the debug builds, but I'm not sure it would really help since you've got the issue of no zombies spawning instead of lagging out (which you would if there are thousands of zombies spawned).

 

Are there any other entities popping up when you type the "le" command in the console? Does it still happen without Improved Hordes?

[-Holo-]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:46 PM, FilUnderscore said:

I've got map markers on zombies spawned by the mod in the debug builds, but I'm not sure it would really help since you've got the issue of no zombies spawning instead of lagging out (which you would if there are thousands of zombies spawned).

 

Are there any other entities popping up when you type the "le" command in the console? Does it still happen without Improved Hordes?

There's generally only less then 10 zombies active, and about the same entities (Even with two players on different part of the map (I'm checking the dedicated server window often (out of frustration 😛 ))), I'll check tomorrow with IH disabled, but I'm fairly sure it's the same problem,  I just figured it would be helpful for situations like this to know if it's vanilla spawns or IH zombies you encounter

[Deadpanh]

I'm having the same issue LE shows 3 z's. Removed IH, it made no difference.

 

[Agame]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:34 PM, FilUnderscore said:

There was a toggle for the new AI sensing which was removed as it's now always active, though I am still looking to amplify their senses if you've got feral sense on.

 

 

I would love an option for the hordes to be like the bloodmoon horde, ie they constantly track and follow you across the map wherever you go. I have been experimenting alot with the 'Romero' concept - walking only zombies and no bloodmoon. It would be great if the hordes could have that tracking, not just a global feral senses setting for all zombies, as it creates a very cool dynamic to the game where the zombies are never a threat, you can always run away from them, but if you try to stop anywhere to loot or build a base you will have more and more piling up on you.

 

Obviously this mod already does that to a degree, but it would be cool to have the 'extreme' setting so the hordes are a constant and inexorable danger, not just the randomness of possibly running into one.

[FilUnderscore]

On 9/9/2023 at 10:03 AM, -Holo- said:

There's generally only less then 10 zombies active, and about the same entities (Even with two players on different part of the map (I'm checking the dedicated server window often (out of frustration 😛 ))), I'll check tomorrow with IH disabled, but I'm fairly sure it's the same problem,  I just figured it would be helpful for situations like this to know if it's vanilla spawns or IH zombies you encounter

 

On 9/9/2023 at 3:42 PM, Deadpanh said:

I'm having the same issue LE shows 3 z's. Removed IH, it made no difference.

 

Sounds like a vanilla issue/other mod causing it if it's still happening without IH installed. Does this also happen in non-modded/non-IH worlds after a long period of time?

 

On 9/9/2023 at 8:01 PM, Agame said:

 

I would love an option for the hordes to be like the bloodmoon horde, ie they constantly track and follow you across the map wherever you go. I have been experimenting alot with the 'Romero' concept - walking only zombies and no bloodmoon. It would be great if the hordes could have that tracking, not just a global feral senses setting for all zombies, as it creates a very cool dynamic to the game where the zombies are never a threat, you can always run away from them, but if you try to stop anywhere to loot or build a base you will have more and more piling up on you.

 

Obviously this mod already does that to a degree, but it would be cool to have the 'extreme' setting so the hordes are a constant and inexorable danger, not just the randomness of possibly running into one.

Sounds like a fantastic idea for an add-on and a twist on the current playstyle. It could broadcast player locations to all hordes and begin some kind of endless horde of zombies that follow you everywhere (until you get surrounded).

[CLYDEFROG68]

I havent really been into 7 days lately but was looking around at mods and this sounds really interesting.  Ive always missed those wandering hordes from back in the day and im not a big fan of the sleepers and special zombies and hate how once you clear an area, its generally clear for a while.   It just doesnt feel like a zombie game to me anymore.   So im gonna try this one out soon and ill let you know my thoughts and ideas if i have any.   Just wanted to say thanks in advance.  This mod alone is really making me want to play again. 

[Agame]

21 hours ago, FilUnderscore said:

Sounds like a fantastic idea for an add-on and a twist on the current playstyle. It could broadcast player locations to all hordes and begin some kind of endless horde of zombies that follow you everywhere (until you get surrounded).

 

That sounds perfect! I would be very happy if you could add it as an option or toggle of some kind to the mod!

 

10 hours ago, CLYDEFROG68 said:

I havent really been into 7 days lately but was looking around at mods and this sounds really interesting.  Ive always missed those wandering hordes from back in the day and im not a big fan of the sleepers and special zombies and hate how once you clear an area, its generally clear for a while.   It just doesnt feel like a zombie game to me anymore.   So im gonna try this one out soon and ill let you know my thoughts and ideas if i have any.   Just wanted to say thanks in advance.  This mod alone is really making me want to play again. 

 

I would highly recommend also modding the normal world spawns with either someone elses mod, or you can tweak the settings yourself, its surprisingly easy! I felt the same way as you, the gameplay, aside from horde night, in vanilla does not feel like a zombie apocalypse AT ALL. It feels like a hiking adventure with occaisional optional 'fun houses' that just happen to have some zombies.

 

Thank god the game is so mod friendly as its now one of my favourites.

[CLYDEFROG68]

4 hours ago, Agame said:

 

That sounds perfect! I would be very happy if you could add it as an option or toggle of some kind to the mod!

 

 

I would highly recommend also modding the normal world spawns with either someone elses mod, or you can tweak the settings yourself, its surprisingly easy! I felt the same way as you, the gameplay, aside from horde night, in vanilla does not feel like a zombie apocalypse AT ALL. It feels like a hiking adventure with occaisional optional 'fun houses' that just happen to have some zombies.

 

Thank god the game is so mod friendly as its now one of my favourites.

 

I used to increase the wandering zombie counts based on the biome but TFP ended up implementing that so I haven't found a need to do it anymore, just like most of my old stack count tweaks.   I havent played much in the last few years so haven't been tweaking anything or playing with anyone, just a little single player here and there but I'd really like to get into it again.  It seems the modding community is even stronger now.

 

Regarding this mod, how do I know if its working?   I installed it into a mod folder inside 7 days main and I had to play without EAC and can see it in the console, but I've only encountered one small wandering horde and a few lingering around my base (as someone said above me how they spawm more around their base.)

I cant tell if these are the additional hordes or vanilla.  It seems to quiet.   I'm game stage 45ish in the forest, but I still expected to see more.  I've played for about 3 hours total since installing the mod.   Its also the only mod I have installed.  

I feel like somethings wrong but can't tell if its just me yet.   Should I increase the max zombie spawn or leave everything as is?

 

[JaxTeller718]

Quick question, how would i go about lowering bear and wolf hordes? i set the enemy animal to 16 but we are still seeing 2 or so a day even right at login on day 1. BTW this modlet is a godsend thank you for your work on it.

[LordSoth01]

He wants 16 of these bears, lol
 

[FilUnderscore]

17 hours ago, CLYDEFROG68 said:

I used to increase the wandering zombie counts based on the biome but TFP ended up implementing that so I haven't found a need to do it anymore, just like most of my old stack count tweaks.   I havent played much in the last few years so haven't been tweaking anything or playing with anyone, just a little single player here and there but I'd really like to get into it again.  It seems the modding community is even stronger now.

 

Regarding this mod, how do I know if its working?   I installed it into a mod folder inside 7 days main and I had to play without EAC and can see it in the console, but I've only encountered one small wandering horde and a few lingering around my base (as someone said above me how they spawm more around their base.)

I cant tell if these are the additional hordes or vanilla.  It seems to quiet.   I'm game stage 45ish in the forest, but I still expected to see more.  I've played for about 3 hours total since installing the mod.   Its also the only mod I have installed.  

I feel like somethings wrong but can't tell if its just me yet.   Should I increase the max zombie spawn or leave everything as is?

It should have posted a message to chat first time when you load the world to confirm it's installed properly (you can also check console to see whether you see the "Initializing" line from the mod when loading the world). Regarding horde sizes, you can tweak these in the XML files in the Config/ImprovedHordes folder in the mod folder. Full list of settings and what they do can be found on the wiki linked in the first post. Hordes really start to ramp up in difficulty past gamestages 50 (feral) and 160 (radiated).

 

4 hours ago, JaxTeller718 said:

Quick question, how would i go about lowering bear and wolf hordes? i set the enemy animal to 16 but we are still seeing 2 or so a day even right at login on day 1. BTW this modlet is a godsend thank you for your work on it.

If you're talking about "wandering_animal_enemy_wilderness_sparsity" setting, you actually want to increase it for less animal hordes... it does sound a bit counter-intuitive, but a lower number means more per area (make sure to run "improvedhordes flush" to reset all hordes). You can also adjust the weight attribute (lower number means less chance) on the group tags in the hordes.xml file to lower the chance of bear/wolf hordes if you want to favor other types of animal hordes. Awesome to hear you're finding it useful!

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by FilUnderscore (see edit history)

[-Holo-]

We set up a  base in wasteland town for lulz, was disappointed on how few zombies were out even though I modded up spawning.

First night came.

And with that, a horde. a big one. It was amaziiiiing! (Even thoug it was again strangly homing in onto us) looking at the serverlog - 96 zombies active. Quick change to brown pants and go out and combat them, violently.

I had modded the zombies so bodyshots does almost no damage so have to aim for the head, zombies start piling on top of each other and reaching up the wall. So running out of ammo as dawn comes, while zombies still keep coming at us.

Stuff like this is soooo fun.

Your mod really livens up the world and actually brings many "Maybe we should see if they walk past"moments that's just never there in regular game