pApA^LeGBa

There is no option to vote for no updates because i actually lilke most of the sounds, just change the auger. Polls that suggest a certain intention behind an answer suck tbh.

Mods can´t be the anwser to everything. Modding in a group is always a hassle. And the more things you need to mod to have a good experience the more likely it is you stop playing and look for something that suits you more. And the idea alone that mods won´t be possible after release propably gave a few people a heartattack when reading it. That would cause a huge outrage in the community even if they just would make it harder just for the sake of it. There is no reason at all to do that. Unless steam workshop has some stupid rules that i don´t know about, but that would be a good reason to not use it then tbh.

@meganoth Look i know it´s possible that´s all what i am saying. The solution TFP presents is NOT the only solution possible. Do you understand that now or do i need to tell you in caps lock that i simply only showed that TFP didn´t come up with the only solution possible nor with the most reasonable solution possible? I don´t know why you get so hostile, it´s almost like you made this and are now angry because people don´t like it and god forbid, even have own ideas. How dare we have our own opinons. It´s not my job to come up with solutions, nor do i have to provide every detail needed jsut to be allowed to voice my opinion that the existing one is bad. If TFP doesn´t want people to voice their opinion then they shouldn´t reveal any details.

Complicated in the sense of the process that is happening in that workstation and maybe adding an extrastep. How does TFP ensure players don´t just set up 10 dew collectors on day one? Exactly like that and how i already said in my post before. I am not here to provide a working alternative that is ready to be put in the game with all details solved, it´s a suggestion/argument. No need to go that much into detail. I simply showed that it doesn´t need to be a solution that feels so artifical. You like what TFP did, good for you. I am just here saying it would be way better to have more reasonable solutions if possible and it would be possible here with not more work or time needed than the solution TFP came up with.

So the red tea is just flaoting around in our inventory not inside any container? That´s what it is supposed to be? And before you gotta ask, yes i personally think pots and bowls for eating should be a thing aswell. But you gotta draw a line somewhere and that´s the case with food, i know that most people don´t want it to go all the way here. There are things where it is neccessary to "hide" them so the gameplay doesn´t become to complicated, like bladder, all the different tools actually needed instead of just a hammer and there is things where it isn´t necessary to hide them, especially in a survival game, like containers for liquids and not beeing able to utliize water sources. Rather make the process more complicated and/or timeconsuming to convert it into drinkable water. Would be reasonable after the apocalypse, there could be really bad stuff contaminating the water that´s not just solved with boiling it. That would not only be more reasaonable but also add to the lore/story. And you would still need the extra crafting station with parts that could be rare that aren´t that unreasonable to be not craftable like it is with the filter. @Roland I don´t need to play it to know that there would have been better solutions that are way more relatable than dissapearing jars.

Well it´s not too late to change the dark magic that makes jars dissappear after drinking and somehow makes them non existent at all in an empty state. That´s way easier to solve.

@Roland I guess it´s magic that you aren´t able to get water from a lake. Would fit with other "quirky" features like the invisible magic barrier for sleepers, where you can fully blast with your M60 plus using grenades 5m away from them and they don´t react, but if you approach them from the opposite direction they can hear you sneaking from 20m away. Yeah, all the things that could have been solved feeling way less artifical and more natural really do make the game unique, i gotta give you that.

@Roland, i am always talking about MP Coop wich should be clear from my last posts. Don´t know where you got the idea i said SP shoudl be possible without looting, i never said that. And we do have people in the group who absolutly won´t go looting. If they are forced to, they won´t play. And i have done the builder/miner part myself already aswell in several playtroughs and will do so again propably. So i am talking for myself here. And to your example, with water not beeing transportable is unique: Really? That´s what you choose to say it´s unique? This is the typical case of "Just because you are special, doesn´t mean you are usefull" right there. I can see the ads for 7 days now. "Play 7 days to die. The survival game where you can´t transport water" Oh my. Such an artifical challenge beeing praised as an advantage sounds actually desperate. I mean can you imagine someone telling a friend that they should play 7 days because it´s so unique? "Hey mate, you should really play that survival game where you can´t take water from a lake and cook it so you can drink it. That´s so unique." Thanks for the laugh, can we now be serious again?

@Roland No it´s not a race. But i will be annoying af due to changes to water and inventory restrictions. I can already see that. And adding more back and forth due to encumberance is nothing i will ever get used to nor do i want to get used to it. And as much as i like slower progression, just adding back and forth isn´t the way i personally want for that. And for that it doesn´t matter if you are the person building and need to get where the magazines are after the looter found them or if you are the looter who needs to do a lot of extra runs home now. Also the glue issue. Sadly we don´t know how the recipe changed (wich is kinda weird seeing how many details regarding magazines are revealed), but even if it´s still one water it will most likely become an issue if you have 2 people at home and 2 looting and that filter simply doesn´t drop (remember forge ahead? It will be exactly the same just that now the enemies scale with your gamestage). And even if one filter drops that gives you 3 jars a day? Is that correct? And it takes up 3x3 blocks so building bigger is now importnant? And i have honestly no clue how people play in SP without looting not using creative mode. I bascially never build a single block more than necessary in SP. But i can assure you that some people who like building would have been going for other games if they see that this game doesn´t really support their playstyle. The days where 7 days to die was unique are long gone.

In A20? Yes. But in A21 when i know from start on that there will be a point where i can craft, let´s say the SMG5, it will just be "ah finally". You know will get there and after getting to know how the new systems works in terms of progression speed you will even know when you will be able to. @Roland You are so far besides my point it´s not even funny anymore. Do you even read? Or do you just see that someone isn´t fully happy about the change and give out slightly altered standard replies? I never said the playstyle is dead. Repeat: I never said the playstyle is dead. Again? What i said: You will get disadvantages. Again: Those playstyles will get disadvantages. They will NOT be impossible. Got that? And for the experiene it yourself part. That is usually true. But as said, from the description alone it is 100% clear that you have the disadvantage of progressing slower than the looters. Unless TFP didn´t tell us all, wich would be odd considering they exactly know what this change is going to do to certain playstyles and they wanted people to go bonkers in the forums about it until A21 releases. Mix that up with water changes and it might (carefull here, i said might and didn´t claim it will be like that 100%) be a huge disadvantage for groups who have different roles and people who never go looting because they simply don´t like it and would never have played the game in the first place if it wasn´t possible to play without looting at all. Yes, looters can provide them for stay at home players. But there is limited inventory space and encumberance that also come into play here. That´s 2-4 more spots beeing used i guess. Another disadvantage. The builders/miners/farmers/cooks/crafters will be slower in progression (again, unless TFP didn´t tell us everything, wich would be downright stupid imo) that is a fact looking at the information we are given. This does effect the whole group. And if water is somewhat rare in loot and looting will just fulfill the needs of one person looting, then certain roles aren´t viable anymore at all, but we got no information on that, so that part is just speculating. But i am pretty sure we won´t find enough water to sustain the need for glue if only 3 out of 5 people go looting. Propably said already, but the filter for the dew collector beeing a rare loot drop is absolutly disgusting. Another try to force us to do things we don´t like. Using traders. Those are OP. You could get an additional challenge when not using them, but if one now doesn´t want to rely on looting all the water (even someone who goes looting, limited inventory and encumberance are a thing) you propabl need to rely on the trader if you can´t get it to drop in loot. And for beeing able to buy it, you need to use the trader for more than just buying it. And i can already see playtroughs where you need to do quests because you can´t get it in loot and in the inventory and need now to rely on it as a quest reward. That filter might (again, might, carefull here) also play into the whole other situation with the other roles. We usually do need a LOT of duct tape. If that filter isn´t dropping on all 3 occasions, looting is the only way to sustain enough glue, especially seeing that the recipe got adjusted. No clue how, but it´s either less bones or more murky water. Seeing how bones usually weren´t a problem at all, my bet is on more water. But we will see about that. Point is, that it might become a problem to get enough glue unless all of us go looting. (again might, carefull) Make that filter a craftable item.

@RolandYeah, seeing how they said several times that they don´t like people staying at home and the combo of water and magazines, i doubt that. Sure you can still play like before. But with disadvantages, unless TFP didn´t tell us everything on purpose about those changes and left out crucial information, that´s a given fact. And why would they hold back information that they know is gonna stop people from complaining? So i don´t think there will be any surprise regarding that and there is no way that nothing at all changes for certain playstyles. Not gonna happen, there will be disadvantages, maybe for the whole group. That´s the point. I never said you can´t play like that at all. @BFT2020 I know it isn´t a building/crafting or whatever simulator. Point is that a big part of the success is that you still can play it like one in MP. A lot of people would have never touched this game if it wasn´t for those playstyles beeing possible. I don´t think TFP realizes how many tbh.

Years over years where the game made no difference between playstyles at all established that. And who would want to make their own game less attractive for a certain group of players when it´s not absolutly necessary? And that change is far from beeing absolutly necessary. Something similar could have been done without having disadvantages for certain playstyles. Yeah, i know they wanna make the game how they like to play it, yada, yada. But doing this that late in development? Really? Changing game mechanics is fine during EA, no matter when. But not at the cost of players not beeing able to play how they like anymore after all those years.

And talking about forcing people to go out. The whole water change plays a role there aswell i assume. It´s not only that you need to loot for magazines to skill crafting, it might also be a problem for the looters to provide enough murky water for the whole group. Not sure as i can´t say anything about the droprate of murky water yet. But i assume that it won´t be too high as the whole change was intended to make the survival part more challenging.

Yes, for a playtrough were you only build what you really need and nothing more this is viable. But not for big builds as you mentioned in your example. It´s part of the discussion about A21 and the whole forced to be going out thing, so i don´t see a problem discussing this here? There is no way you should do a big mine for building a whole castle big enough under your base. And the people who wanna do this should be able to rely on others without any disadvantage, wich also means they should be able to level their crafting as fast as when looting themselves. Everything else is simply a F u for builders/miners/cooks/farmers/crafters who purely play the game for those aspects, having not the slightest interest in raiding POI´s. Punishing playstyles is simply a no go (and it doesn´t matter if that was the intenion or not, TFP knows exactly what the effcets of those changes are). No matter who risks more tbh. And while we are beeing honest, what risk? My last two playtroughs in permadeath SP both ended out of boredom and not because i died. On Survivalist. No traders. and no building other than what is really necessary aka hordbase and a small crafting base, mainly going out to the POI´s. Allowing to have stay at home playstyles (mining isn´t really stay at home though) for years and then suddenly making them unattractive by giving them disadvantages is just rude to say it nice.

@Jost Amman I can. If you can´t accept that part of your argument is simply not true and can´t have someone telling you that, that is not my problem. Maybe i just didn´t want to participate in the whole topic because i don´t care about the rest of it, but still wanted to say that you are wrong with that particular argument. Valid if you ask me. And there was nothing out of context. Stating that going looting isn´t that much more dangerous than doing the mining for a big build is within it´s own context. It doesn´t change anything if it is a discussion on it´s own or part of a more complex discussion. The facts for it stay the same.

@Roland I highly doubt that a magazine for a crafting skill can be more exciting than beeing able to step on mines or extra 50% sneak damage or getting a chance to one shot ores. It´s just a crafting skill. That is now kind of luck based. Please note the "kind of" before going all over me about how it works.

Still talking to you who claimed that looting is so much more dangerous when it really isn´t that much more dangerous. @Jost Amman No matter what you discussed originally, i only reacted to that part. Or am i not allowed to do that?

If you make big mines near your base, you are the one who needs to learn how to play tbh. I never said anything about screamers beeing a threat to my base. I also didn´t mention magazines. Just said that when mining you can be in more unpredictable danger, espcially in big mines that you need if you want to build big, than when you go looting.

It can easily be one, i had big hordes in my mines when doing bigger building projects and needing lots of concrete and steel. When going out doing the "dangerous" looting, you mostly have to deal with sleepers. A bit of POI knowledge and beeing a bit cautios and pretty much every POI is a walk in the park.

@Jost Amman Because screamers totally aren´t a thing when mining, right?

And i just realized there is also master chef. The more i think about some perks, like salvage operations for example wich is oddly placed at perception tbh, if anything it should be tied to agility. the more i think there should be a category of perks not related to any attribute.

I said no or low mining skill. @meganoth Both is annoying for me. Well we will see what A22 brings. Unless they nerfed the club and or bow, strength/agi is the way to go anyways. No matter the changes tbh. Although the spear changes look promising.

Yeah. It´s annoying af for me having no or only low mining skill and it gets me into trouble preparing for bloodmoon usually. Even when playing AGI, gunpowder is an issue when having larger hordes during bloodmoon on higher difficulties. No way i can buy all that gun powder. Especially when i have no mining skills and waste time due to that.

@meganoth The auger? Really? It´s early to mid game when i need to save time when mining. Not when i am able to build an auger and already have bases set up for both living and horde. Also gunpowder. Mining is by no means only for builders.

Well, kinda nullifies all the changes for Strength not beeing a must anymore, wich is the argument for those changes it seems? Not beeing forced to use a certain attribute anymore? Because honestly, how many people do play without any points in mining in SP? Heck even in MP most people put 1 or 2 points in mining, to be faster when opening chests and breaking down barriers. So yeah, strength is still a must then. In SP you are incredibly slow without going for at leat 3 points into miner69er and MP get´s kinda annoying too after a while with no points in mining, even if you don´t mine at all.