Working anti-horde structure for A17E

[ShivanSps]

So ive already figured this out

 

 

Spiders can jump on the roof AND police zombies can destroy the iron bars.

[PrivateRiem]

So ive already figured this out

 

 

Spiders can jump on the roof AND police zombies can destroy the iron bars.

 

I don't understand the struggle to make a working base with alpha 17. The first thing I built seemed to work incredibly well, and it was a very simple bunker with 3 block thick walls, 3 blocks high first floor, with a slightly longer entrance tunnel.

 

It's incredibly easy to defend, incredibly easy to funnel zombies and screws up the AI into being unable to climb, without you having to worry about those damn vultures. See here: https://steamcommunity.com/id/runningdagger/screenshots/?appid=251570

 

I built this thing out of upgraded flagstone and bricks on day 5, and it's still standing by day 45.

Iron bars are expensive to build, fairly weak and can't be upgraded. I suggest 1/4 L shaped corner blocks instead.

[Kage848]

So ive already figured this out

 

 

Spiders can jump on the roof AND police zombies can destroy the iron bars.

 

Awesome design. But its exploiting ai. They have zero chance to get you. TFP have nerfed the pole defense and dont want people living underground. How's this any different? I was using the pole defense in a16 and actually had breaches. They thought it was OP and nerfed it. So of that was OP how's this any different?

 

Really cool design though. I might use it just to show to others. Although if the zombies have zero chance kinda makes the game boring.

[Naughtylus]

I don't understand the struggle to make a working base with alpha 17. The first thing I built seemed to work incredibly well, and it was a very simple bunker with 3 block thick walls, 3 blocks high first floor, with a slightly longer entrance tunnel.

 

It's incredibly easy to defend, incredibly easy to funnel zombies and screws up the AI into being unable to climb, without you having to worry about those damn vultures. See here: https://steamcommunity.com/id/runningdagger/screenshots/?appid=251570

 

I built this thing out of upgraded flagstone and bricks on day 5, and it's still standing by day 45.

Iron bars are expensive to build, fairly weak and can't be upgraded. I suggest 1/4 L shaped corner blocks instead.

 

 

 

Pretty cool. Mine is similar, also still standing. But we are on day 30 something. Long days

I just started upgrading to concrete.

[Scyris]

Awesome design. But its exploiting ai. They have zero chance to get you. TFP have nerfed the pole defense and dont want people living underground. How's this any different? I was using the pole defense in a16 and actually had breaches. They thought it was OP and nerfed it. So of that was OP how's this any different?

 

Really cool design though. I might use it just to show to others. Although if the zombies have zero chance kinda makes the game boring.

 

The thing is you have to exploit the ai for a successful base in a17e, because if you don't they just destroy it in 2-3 minutes due to the insane block damage they have now. They didn't just improve the ai (A good thing mind you), they also seemed to have doubled or tripled their block damage.

[Kage848]

The thing is you have to exploit the ai for a successful base in a17e, because if you don't they just destroy it in 2-3 minutes due to the insane block damage they have now. They didn't just improve the ai (A good thing mind you), they also seemed to have doubled or tripled their block damage.

 

Well first I'm not judging. I say let the players play they way they went to.

 

The thing is this is kinda the worst of both worlds no? You either play one way and it's too hard or you play the other and it's too easy.

[Kosmic Kerman]

I’m not seeing the exploit here. It looks like the zombies will wreck the base if it’s not defended.

 

Edit: Speaking of the second post here.

 

Edit 2: the OP is just theory crafting. That wasn’t a functional horde base. There was no way in or out. Maybe it will still work when there is a way in and out. Cops and spiders seem to pose a risk though. It also requires a very specific terrain lay out.

[ShivanSps]

They DO hit you if you are standing next to the bars, and the spiders and police zombies can kill you. This is less safe than petty much every anti-horde structure ive ever built in A16.

 

I dont think there is a way to create something where all the zombies have the chance to kill you and would still work on high levels and difficulty.

Even if i start to think about traps, turrets, etc you cant make all of them until level 100...

[Ghostlight]

So ive already figured this out

 

 

Spiders can jump on the roof AND police zombies can destroy the iron bars.

 

Wow.

 

I thought that if zombies cannot path to the player then they were supposed to start destroying everything nearby. Why are they not hitting your foundations after they fall?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The thing is you have to exploit the ai for a successful base in a17e, because if you don't they just destroy it in 2-3 minutes due to the insane block damage they have now. They didn't just improve the ai (A good thing mind you), they also seemed to have doubled or tripled their block damage.

 

2 mechanics are causing this....

 

1) Zombies get a stacking damage bonus if they are trying to hit the same block as other zombies.

 

2) Zombies take the "path of least damage" to get to the player. ie. they go for the weakest block

 

This means as soon as a block is damaged and thus weaker than its neighbours, all the zombies go for it. The damage bonus means this block is destroyed very very quickly. And it snowballs from there.

[Kosmic Kerman]

I assume they keep running up because of the small gap between the platform and the cage. The height of the cage may also affect the calculation. If this was built completely using blocks the result may be different as the zombie AI may treat blocks and terrain differently.

 

Platform bases are still possible in B199 if you use poles as pillars. The zombies have a hard time targeting the poles. This might change in later experimentals.

[Ghostlight]

I assume they keep running up because of the small gap between the platform and the cage. The height of the cage may also affect the calculation. If this was built completely using blocks the result may be different as the zombie AI may treat blocks and terrain differently.

 

Interesting. So the gap between the fall off ramp and the iron bars is only 1 block, and the AI algorithm counts that as jumpable (i.e. doesn't take into account that the bars make that jump impossible, so it still computes as a valid path to the player)

[PrivateRiem]

I’m not seeing the exploit here. It looks like the zombies will wreck the base if it’s not defended.

 

Edit: Speaking of the second post here.

 

Edit 2: the OP is just theory crafting. That wasn’t a functional horde base. There was no way in or out. Maybe it will still work when there is a way in and out. Cops and spiders seem to pose a risk though. It also requires a very specific terrain lay out.

 

The inside setup uses a hatch door as a step to get inside the base, which is impossible for the zombies to use due to the way the room is built, along with the bars above which prevent climbing. If the hatch is open, they'll try to destroy it instead of climbing on it (And ignore it if it's closed) If you stand inside, with the door either open or closed, the zombies will go for your head. If you stand above the killbox and the door is open or missing, the zombies will run outside and try to attack the walls instead. It's very easy to control their behaviour and the single block hallway makes it very easy to kill the zombies by stacking them in a row. Additionally, if you're outside, you can wack their heads or shoot them without fear of retribution while also having easy access to the door for repairs.

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm assuming it's possible to use another hatch as as half-door behind the main door to stop the flow of zombies and just kill them where they stand.

 

The base isn't invulnerable, but it'll last longer than you if you're fighting the zombies, and it's easy to repair and defend. Zombies are incapable of getting in accidentally, and there's plenty of room for traps or turrets.

 

Defeating hordes is a lot easier to do if you're killing them all one by one, 300 style.

I spent the last blood moon defending the base alone, in the killbox, and I was just wacking their heads in with a club all night. If my health dropped below what I consider safe, I'd climb out, let them run around while I heal, then go back down. The damage to the base was minimal, with no block taking more than 5% damage, with the exception of the door, which was open most of the night.

[Reth]

Wow.

 

I thought that if zombies cannot path to the player then they were supposed to start destroying everything nearby. Why are they not hitting your foundations after they fall?

 

Because the algorithm doesn't take into account a drop followed by an obstacle. Zs think they have a path of very little resistance to you.

 

Right now zombie's AI has a fundamental flaw in it. Until they change it, there is always going to be a simple way to defeat it.

[Funchy]

OP base is fairly weak ( as you can see in the video) and especially hes cheating.

 

I dont mind ppl using creative mode, etc. to get the ressources and build a base with cheated materials or levels, but

PLEASE turn off godmode and stuff you can not have in real mode(one-shot-pistol e.g.) once you are TESTING.

 

Turned off after like 20s because it was unbearbale to watch you making a point with a video where you used god mode. like...

I dont even know what to say..."Look this base keeps me safe. ... Also: god mode." :D

[ShivanSps]

I used the kill all pistol to kill regular zombies because i wanted more police and spiders. I used god mode to heal me once, i had no armor or anything else.

 

I looking forward to try this in a real server soon.

 

Wow.

 

I thought that if zombies cannot path to the player then they were supposed to start destroying everything nearby. Why are they not hitting your foundations after they fall?

 

They will hit the foundation if i step one block back, there is a path to me, from iron bars to the bridge is just 2 blocks they can jump that, but since the last block on the bridge is a ramp, they jump too low to do enoght damage, they would hit the bars maybe once or miss enterely, specially IF im hitting them.

 

 

 

 

As for entering, this was more of a concept that anything else, but the best way to me is just to add a door on a side and use wood frames to walk in and out from the bridge, and remove them.

[Nintova]

So far I've had zero problem living at bedrock through day 74. If you plan well and use a bit of ingenuity, it is simple. I play unmodded vanilla. No cheats, never a console command.

 

I manipulate the AI via knowing their coded instructions ( then and now ) and use terrain to my advantage as well.

 

I'm hesitant to say more so as not to bring the nerfage ( although I'm not certain the zeds could be coded correctly to counter what I'm doing. )

 

 

It's kinda silly actually.

 

I've been building this same base since A8. Through trial and error I've tweaked it until it's been 100% safe for the last 6 or so alphas.

[ShivanSps]

OK now with a real multiplayer test.