Balance weapons!

[Ascillian]

I don't mean so much that certain weapons are innately more powerful than others, but rather that some weapons have more options and benefits. 

Knives are the ONLY weapon class that doesn't have it's own magazine....why?  Knives should have a book series dedicated to them like every other weapon, so that people who put points into knives have the same chances for cool extras as every other weapon that people can spec into.

 

Clubs have WAY more mod options than other weapons.  There are a ton of melee mods that are clubs only, which is crazy (because the only other weapon with a unique mod is the stun baton, and it only has one special mod).  This leaves knife and knuckles often very limited in mod choices (and not even 'choices' because often you end up running random tool mods just to fill slots). 

 

It's kinda obvious that the dev's prefer/prioritize clubs over the other weapons, which is really sad in a game that is all about building a spec to play the way I want to play (using weapons that I enjoy).  I shouldn't feel like I'm crippling myself because I'm not using clubs.

[mprojekt]

The balancing for 7Days isn't finalized and unless bladed weapons get pulled, maybe TFP will give knives and machetes something for new players to consider these viable to wield in late-game melee. Maybe it will be refinement, a re-balance, an additional quality, another feature, or whatnot.

 

While it may appear to some that magazines are lacking (even tho we have the "Knife Guy" magazine), we also have the Night Stalker books and there are already some nice weapon mods/plug-ins that are already in-game and have been for several Alphas. I use these in my machetes. A T5 or T6, with some slots filled with goodies, continues to feed my need in A21.

 

I do not normally wield fists, clubs, or spears beyond the first 14 to 21 days. Once I have got my grubby mitts on a decent machete, I routinely stick with it for its speed and fun decapitation strike (fun for me, I don't know about anyone else). Bursting zombie heads makes for a nice change of pace, but my go-to in melee is a decap.

 

Addendum: I almost forgot - knives and machetes can also make for some interesting back-stabs.

Edited June 29, 2023 by mprojekt (see edit history)

[FranticDan]

1 hour ago, Ascillian said:

Knives are the ONLY weapon class that doesn't have it's own magazine....why?

*cough* Sledgehammers *cough*

[mprojekt]

7 minutes ago, FranticDan said:

*cough* Sledgehammers *cough*

 

There is the "Get Hammered" magazine but sledgies don't get any love from the perk books.

[FranticDan]

1 hour ago, mprojekt said:

 

There is the "Get Hammered" magazine but sledgies don't get any love from the perk books.

That's my point exactly. OP said that knives are the ONLY weapon that doesn't have their own book series. hence the " *cough* Sledgehammers *cough* " since sledgehammers don't have one at all

[BFT2020]

Even without books, knives are still pretty powerful if you use them correctly.

 

• You can stack bleed effects on targets
• Targets that bleed are slower if you perk into Deep Cuts
• The baseline sneak attack bonus damage with them outclasses everything

Clubs should never be used as a comparison as they are starter weapons for new people.  That is why they are so powerful, but knives have their own place in the game that I don't think need a book series for.  I didn't even mod one in for my playthroughs.

[Ascillian]

21 hours ago, FranticDan said:

That's my point exactly. OP said that knives are the ONLY weapon that doesn't have their own book series. hence the " *cough* Sledgehammers *cough* " since sledgehammers don't have one at all

You have a point (that was my bad, I really dislike sledges personally, so I kinda forget about them 😛  Sledgehammers should get stuff too!

20 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Even without books, knives are still pretty powerful if you use them correctly.

 

• You can stack bleed effects on targets
• Targets that bleed are slower if you perk into Deep Cuts
• The baseline sneak attack bonus damage with them outclasses everything

Clubs should never be used as a comparison as they are starter weapons for new people.  That is why they are so powerful, but knives have their own place in the game that I don't think need a book series for.  I didn't even mod one in for my playthroughs.

Just because a weapon is deemed a 'starter weapon' (and honestly the only reason I think clubs would be considered a starter weapon is because they are the one that the quest prompts you to make...if instead the intro quest just prompted you to make "any mellee weapon" then that whole point is invalid), doesn't mean that other weapons shouldn't be comparable.  Otherwise, why bother to make other weapons, just make everything clubs and turn knives into a harvesting tool.

The whole point is to give everyone chances to play the way they want.  And It's FUN to find magazines that give your preferred weapons unique perks (like you can with clubs), and it's FUN to pick from a nice selection of mods to choose the ones that fit your play style best (like you can with clubs)...and if other weapons are going to be viable weapons throughout the whole game (beginning, middle and 'end' game), then they should ALL get the same opportunities, because all players should have the same opportunities for these fun extras on their weapons.

[RhinoW]

A reminder that ever since the perks got majorly reworked (A17 I believe), every weapon has been treated as its own weapon type. Meaning there should not be a weapon to rule them all, but rather multiple melee approaches. Prior to that, clubs, the iron sledge and the machete (I guess you could also argue the hunting knife) were the only held items that were focused on combat. The knives had the same attack speed as everything else and did terrible damage, and were just there to be used as harvest tools. The iron sledge and the machete were rare endgame tools that were opposites to one another, and I should also mention there was no power attack.

 

So, with that said, in today's version of the game, no weapon should feel weaker than another one, but different. Which, for some weapons its not the case. 

 

1. There's a missing tier for the batons

2. Baton unique perk effect only works on the t2 baton, because its the only one (out of the two) that electrifies targets.

3. Machete functions very differently because its not a knife, but still you are expected to stack bleed with it. The steel club deals massively more damage than the machete, while maintaining pretty much the same attack speed and a negligible difference in stamina cost, on top of scaling off Pummel Pete, each at max rank gives you 100% knockdown chance on power attack, and 200% damage on knockedown targets.

 

4. Fists attack slower than knives

5. Fists deal less damage than knives

6. Fists use more stamina than knives

7. Fists HAVE MORE RANGE than knives

8. The AUTO shotgun is not auto, and has a fire rate of 1.16 rounds per second while the pump shotgun has a fire rate of 1 rounds per second

9. The SMG is part of the PISTOL tree and scales off the gunslinger perk....every 3 shots you get double damage on the next one.

 

You guys try to make sense out of that.

 

[mprojekt]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:45 AM, BFT2020 said:

Even without books, knives are still pretty powerful if you use them correctly.

 

• You can stack bleed effects on targets
• Targets that bleed are slower if you perk into Deep Cuts
• The baseline sneak attack bonus damage with them outclasses everything

Clubs should never be used as a comparison as they are starter weapons for new people.  That is why they are so powerful, but knives have their own place in the game that I don't think need a book series for.  I didn't even mod one in for my playthroughs.

 

Knives have saved my butt from wandering hordes in cities due to the first two points you mention. My own view on mods for blades is that these are nice to have, rather than being required.

 

By the late-game, I admit that I routinely plug a Rad Remover into my hunting knife or machete. The regen debuff for radiated zeds, in combination with stacked bleed, seems to take them down a little more quickly.