A20 feeback - shift in how sleeper zombies behave?

[ckuebler]

Fun Pimps Team (and 7D2D Community):

I have noticed with several of the new POIs that there seems to be a shift with the behavior and aggro'ing of the sleeper zombies.  It used to be that when you entered a POI, the sleeper zombies would simply "sleep".  They might be slumped behind a couch or a table, or something.  And it would be up to you as a player to perform a careful stealth approach so that you could kill (or heavily damage) the zombies before they wake and attack you.

Now it seems that rather than being asleep, the sleepers are straight up set to ambush - or to all activate once a certain "trigger point" is reached.  I am fine with the occasional ambush, especially the floor fall "trap" ambushes (those are GREAT!  ).  But it seems that many of the POIs now give preferential treatment to zombie ambushers as opposed to zombie sleepers.  Is this an intentional shift in zombie sleeper behavior and design?  Because I would hope that if I get my stealth stats up high enough, that I ought to be able to outmaneuver waiting sleepers, or even see sleeper trigger points.  I thoroughly enjoy rolling stealthy through a POI and putting either arrows or silenced firearm rounds into sleeping zombie heads.    And I simply do not want those experiences to be diminished or removed.

What would be exceptionally cool would be if one has enough points Agility and Perception, that perhaps the trigger points would be subtly indicated or highlighted for the player.  That way those trigger points can be avoided, sidestepped, or otherwise worked around.

Once again - thank you for reviewing and considering my feedback. 

[Kosmic Kerman]

The Stealth system underwent some major changes and may have bugs or need to be fine-tuned.  The basics of it are that certain actions trigger a stealth check that the player either succeeds or fails. The action could be entering an area, killing a zombie, etc. The stealth system also factors in ambient light, including player made light.

[ckuebler]

So - based on the new system - a sufficiently stealthy character could still potentially fail a stealth check "roll" in any given situation or POI?  That seems to be a good change.  But it still does not explain many of the situations that I have observed.

There are some POIs where there are clearly "trigger points" where zombies that are not in close proximity are triggered, and they aggro.  I am careful to consider my character generated lighting (torch, headlamp, etc.).  I know that the headlamp is often a surefire way to get the Z's attention.

Speaking specifically, I recently cleared house_old_bungalo_11 (2 story house, 2 story separate garage, w/ underground base, will attach reference image).  I always clear the quest POIs twice.  I clear it first, reset with the start of the quest, and then run the quest.  Several spots in this POI are obvious zombie sleeper trigger points.  In one of the underground "dug out" refuge areas, the sleeper zombies trigger from VERY far away.  It is obvious that is a trigger point, or an ambush point.  Because every time I run this particular POI (I am fond of this one, and I've run it many times), I cannot "sneak up" on the sleepers unless I specifically and very deliberately "drill" or "mine" a different path that does not cross that trigger point threshold.

Again, to the specific point with this POI... are The Fun Pimps changing the paradigm of how the sleeper zombies operate to a more "ambush" style as opposed to the true "sleeper" style?  Because it feels like with several of the new POIs - that they are.

 

 

 

house_old_bungalo_11:

Edited December 24, 2021 by ckuebler (see edit history)

[Krougal]

As I said in one of the other stealth threads, I ran a pure agility build in A19 but I've dropped it as my primary playstyle for A20.

That being said, I can't help but sneak when I've got clear LOS on a zed that doesn't see me.

It is very weird when you can see that you are on the invisible boundary between "rooms" some of them will be standing around, some actually sleeping. Like the auto body shop rooftop, they just stand there and you can jump up on the edge of the roof and 1 shot all 3 of them (2 standing next to each other, 1 sleeper in corner). 

 

I thought the consensus was they are getting rid of the auto ambush but may have missed some. Regardless the A20 AI is what I can only describe as bat@%$# crazy.

 

[Roland]

There will always be some auto attack volumes since the designers of the POIs want them in certain places as part of their vision. 
 

As for the rest, they are not auto but dependent upon passing your stealth check. Will need ongoing testing and feedback.