WolfyBlah Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Been think about this for a week or two now: What is the goal of adding specialisation to the game? Hate to say it but in the current version what its actualy doing is this: Soloplayer: gimps themselves in combat or survival areas to be able to progress technologicaly. Groups: one player gimps themselve to be bad at combat/survival so everyone in the group can acess higher technology. Being the person with gimped stats is NOT FUN. The crafters (in both solo and group) are being forced to make the game more difficult on themselves (weaker stats) to be able to progress. Im all for specialisation in diffrent areas of combat, or faster looting, theres a bunch of stuff here that can be cool additions. I just think that as it stands some of the stuff like crafting recipes and HP/stamina pool should just be baked into player level progression instead of being a 'not-choice'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTunnerX Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Agreed. Specialisations should only make you better at something, not allow you to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbruh_will Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Totally agree with OP. If you follow the building/crafting path now the game is going to suck hardcore, especially in group play. I went with a tank build in my new MP game and a friend of mine went the strength/ gathering route. Every time I wanted to do a poi dungeon, he basically turned down doing them stating that a few hits and he's dead. After a while, he fell behind in levels and played less frequently until he quit. That's another huge issue I hope TFP is working on in the next patch. Sure, they can keep zombie killing at the highest rate of xp, but at least make other "specializations" worth while. Just a side note - I think they need players with tons of hours that also produce successful mods, helping them with game design. I'm sure ppl like Guppy and Jax could help them immensely. There is a reason a huge amount of the community plays mod packs - If you look back at A16, there were as many, if not more servers that played modded over vanilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTunnerX Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 If you look back at A16, there were as many, if not more servers that played modded over vanilla. That can be because game automatically puts you to modded section for every little thing you do in XML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reth Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Specialization works well in SP when you have as many ways to achieve certain goals as there are different specialization paths. Let's say you want to clear a PoI. Brawler (strength based) would bash his way in, Ranger (perception based) would stealth and snipe, Builder (intelligence based) would put a turret up and smoke all the zombies out. The end result is the same, but you get to make a choice based on your personal preferences. It's just an example, don't look to much into it, but this is how specialization done in other SP games. In 7D2D if you spec builder all the way, you can't go into PoI, you'll just die after a few hits. They want you to spec, but you really can't, you'll just cripple your game play if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunix57 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just want to play devil's advocate a little bit, but do you think these issues can be solved with balance tweaks? Example: increasing xp for things other than killing zombies. I agree the current incarnation of specialization is not good for a number of reasons. But I don't think it invalidates the idea behind specialization. I HOPE the goal of specialization in 7D2D is to allow for different gameplay styles and interesting choices/builds. However, things like level gating are counter to this goal. Additionally crafting is a play style many have come to enjoy while playing 7D2D and it currently isn't viable because it doesn't offer anything unique, but is simply a requirement for progression (be it SP or MP). When anything becomes a requirement for progression that immediately destroys the goal of interesting choices/builds because it eliminates the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbruh_will Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 That can be because game automatically puts you to modded section for every little thing you do in XML. You're right about that and I should've been a bit more concise. What I meant was people playing mod overhauls like War of the Walkers, Starvation, Ravenhearst, Valmod etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfyBlah Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just want to play devil's advocate a little bit, but do you think these issues can be solved with balance tweaks? Example: increasing xp for things other than killing zombies. I agree the current incarnation of specialization is not good for a number of reasons. But I don't think it invalidates the idea behind specialization. I HOPE the goal of specialization in 7D2D is to allow for different gameplay styles and interesting choices/builds. However, things like level gating are counter to this goal. Additionally crafting is a play style many have come to enjoy while playing 7D2D and it currently isn't viable because it doesn't offer anything unique, but is simply a requirement for progression (be it SP or MP). When anything becomes a requirement for progression that immediately destroys the goal of interesting choices/builds because it eliminates the choice. I honestly dont think the ammount of XP from any given thing will make a difference (or is even relevant to be honest). If a crafter levels slower/faster does not really impact wether or not having gimped stats so you can actually progress is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfyBlah Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 Specialization works well in SP when you have as many ways to achieve certain goals as there are different specialization paths. Let's say you want to clear a PoI. Brawler (strength based) would bash his way in, Ranger (perception based) would stealth and snipe, Builder (intelligence based) would put a turret up and smoke all the zombies out. The end result is the same, but you get to make a choice based on your personal preferences. It's just an example, don't look to much into it, but this is how specialization done in other SP games. In 7D2D if you spec builder all the way, you can't go into PoI, you'll just die after a few hits. They want you to spec, but you really can't, you'll just cripple your game play if you do. I suggested a craft able boom box the other day that would draw sleepers out of a building. If the crafting progression supported fun gameplay like this id be on board, as it stands now though if i place a turret and generator outside i cant move it afterwards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy83 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Agree, all crafting recipes should be baseline with only level gates for acquisition, specializations should be layered on top of that only with bonuses or skill altering traits and maybe something op for mastering that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranzera Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I don't understand all this talk about specialization. It's much easier to do everything at once in this alpha than it was in the last alpha. If you wanted to do that in A16 you actually had to plan things out in advance and make sacrifices. This is just another area A17 made things overly easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I haven't really felt a "different builds" vibe in this game really. I haven't been curious or drawn to using only one attribute tree. The system seems really basic at best right now. They are working things out and it's hard to have a real discussion from my perspective until more things are finalized. I don't think balance tweeks will fix things. At least fix them to suit my tastes. The perk system is just something that is. It's not fun or exciting nor is to gamebreaking or tedious. Just is. In fallout or skyrim I was always interested in trying something new. in 7dtd I have a basic skill package that I always want and I can't see deviating from ever. Still I'm not going to bitch about it yet because so much is sitll being worked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghettochild2600 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Is there a limit on how many points you get? My friends and I have really enjoyed the new system. We basically went with survival and combat perks until we felt we could each hold our own (around level 10), started specializing from there, and gradually added more combat perks as the game progressed. I normally play sniper based characters and strive to kill a zombie as far away as I can. One thing I thought would be nice would be getting rewarded for headshots (at range) with say an xp bonus on kill. Also being able to toggle on/off damage numbers or a notification that you actually made a headshot. It could say above the zombie's head "Headshot!" In white text that scrolls upwards and fades. At least give us that. Rewarding players is what keeps us playing anyway right? I think with the perk system they are going in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTunnerX Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Is there a limit on how many points you get?Yes, I'm level 300 (max) and I have all skills except for about 5 of them - ran out of points and it was impossible to level up so no more points. And don't worry, I didn't waste my time figuring this out, I used debug mode to test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Yes, I'm level 300 (max) and I have all skills except for about 5 of them - ran out of points and it was impossible to level up so no more points. And don't worry, I didn't waste my time figuring this out, I used debug mode to test it. You may still find challenge quests which provide additional skill points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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