Roland
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Posts posted by Roland
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17 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:
It still seems to work fine with the mod though... does that not tell you something?..
It tells me that both vanilla farming exists and a modified version of farming exists. That means players have a choice of two types of farming so that those who do like vanilla can play that way and those who like the modified version can play that way and nobody has to go without the type of farming they enjoy. As someone who is angry about the removal of features of the game, it surprises me that you would have them remove the current farming and replace it with the version you personally enjoy. Wouldn't it be better to have both versions available to give players options?
LBD is available via mods. Farming in the bare ground is available via mods. This is something to celebrate and thank both the creative mod authors and TFP. For those who really really love a particular mod and can't ever see themselves playing any other way, it might seem like a cop out that TFP didn't go far enough themselves and relied on a modder to do the work. But for someone who doesn't like that particular mod and might try it out but then decide it isn't for them, it might seem like a godsend that TFP kept their own version.
For those who hate all currently available versions of farming, that is what the modding request subforum is for. Spell out your dream version of farming and who knows? Maybe it will inspire someone with modding skills to take it on and do it.1 -
1 hour ago, Angry said:
The whole dew collecting affair is abit abysmal. On the one hand you have the functionality of the dew collector. Then on the other you have what is basically a rain collector visually. Has the 3d moddellers gotten confused or something, I am at a loss at how such a error could of been made! As the part of the fibre, which is meant to collect the water that is in gaseous form just drips onto some ropes. That will never make its way into the tank for the player to use. For me, this is immersion breaking and also demonstrates a lack of research into the area of dew collecting. Essentially you have a mechanic that is only explicable by magic. Dew collecting is well researched and many examples of commercial dew collectors can be found online. Here is some paper on dew collection should you wish to learn a little more. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40899-015-0038-z
I have seen from some videos, that the influencing factors on dew collecting - that being if it is indoors or not and time variance. This is too simple, as by the sounds of it you will be aquire the same yields, in frozen regions to deserts and inbetween, if this is the case then this is poorly moddeled in game and requires remedy. Look on the artical, it is only a couple of simple equations - surely not that hard to input into the game.
If we have this sort of dew collector, could we have some active variety too? As that would make for some progression with advanced dew collectors.
<shrug> I'm no dew collector expert so it doesn't bother my immersion. It would be nice for the sake of all the experts in the field that also play this game if they change the model to be more of a dew collector rather than a rain collector but I doubt they will spend the time to rework it. Maybe though...
I really doubt they will make adjustments for biome differences in climate. The dew collection is supposed to be a simple abstraction and the only thing they care about is whether it is open to sky or not. But...this is the first introduction of these and it could be they will develop them further to be somewhat more complex and allow for an upgrade path like some of the other workstations.
1 hour ago, Angry said:On the note of glass jars being taken away, this is not good at all! As this in essence robs the player of the chance to make choices - to use or to scrap the item for resources. As this would teach the player to be careful and to make do with what they had. The removal is perplexing, as I have never gained extra-ordinary amounts of glass from this, but it was handy to do. The fact that glass jars will not pop in and out of existence based off of the fact if liquid is present too is cheapening the experince. Another example of magic in the game... This also means that by removing problems (that of waste and disposal if people dont want it) is taken away and makes the game in a sense with less struggles. If the game intends to have serious resource management, this is not the way to go about it. Glassware has been around for a very long time in human history, I dont see why it should be removed from this game. I have a strong connection to glassware, as a collector. Though this doesnt taint my view, from a gameplay perspective.
There is no popping in or out of existance of glass jars depending on whether they are full or not any more than any other container in the game. You don't seem bothered by the "magic" of bowls that pop in and out of existence depending on whether they have stew in them or not and your immersion seems fine that oil containers, gas containers, and acid containers are nowhere to be found in their empty versions. In every case where an icon shows a container holding some consumable, that container is simply an artisic rendering to show "one unit" of that consumable. Water jars are simply joining in with the rest of the game in this respect and it really doesn't take long to make the adjustment and no longer be bothered by it any more than you are currently bothered by every "magically disappearing" plate that holds a steak and potato dinner. And this concept is not even new to gaming in general as many many games have you consume something and not have an empty container left behind.
As for choices, when one door closes (choosing how to use your glass jars) more open (how to use your murky water, whether to trade health for hydration) and, frankly, if you haven't been swimming in glass jars by the end of the first few days then you are the only one. So the choice of how to divvy up your glass jars for most people is a pretty tame conundrum. Trust me, the new choices opened up by this change are MUCH more interesting and tough.
Finally, let me solve your waste disposal problem for you. Take a stack of empty jars that you don't want and drop them anywhere. They will despawn in about 20 seconds. Solved. Since everything dropped despawns the whole waste disposal challenge is a bit lacking.
1 hour ago, Angry said:As well, drinking out of water, I have heard it being compared to eating those dodgey sandwiches - though I feel there should be greater punishment from drinking from rivers, as losing a little bit of health only to regain it is not satisfactory. Considering that after a world war, and the uses of all sorts of nasty weapons, plus infections. Would you dare to drink open water sources?? I say you should get infected from drinking the water.
There is a greater punishment: A chance for dysentery. I've gotten it a few times since I started testing A21. It is literally a pain in the butt and kills your stamina for 30 minutes. So because of this I find myself cooking more goldenrod tea which I rarely did in the past. In fact I can't remember the last time I got dysentery pre A21. It sounds like you even forgot that dysentery exists since you didn't list it as one of the penalties and it isn't new to A21. Its been around forever but always something that nobody ever experienced because of the existence of glass jars making access to good water so trivial from the very start. Now access to all the murky water you want is trivial. You can drink right from a source. You find murky water in all water related containers (instead of jars and/or good water). Now I drink murky water a lot out of necessity and dysentery finally has a presence in the game.
1 hour ago, Angry said:No, I do not hope to have modders solve this problem either, as I believe in games being in a presentable state that they shouldnt require mods to address such problems. After all, we pay good money to play our games and the makers should respect that.
What you call mistakes and critical errors due to your expertise and care about water collection techniques, many others will not even blink an eye and accept the basic abstraction of the process. You want it to be more sim-like which is admirable but taking the game to sim-like lengths is exactly what modding is for. The problem is not universal. Most people won't even register the wrongness of the dew collectors and many others who do won't care because they just want the water when it comes down to it and the model looks cool on your base once it is placed. As for respecting the money you have paid, I know the devs do and in my opinion what they have offered more than compensates for the amount paid. As players we should look at the number of hours of entertainment we have gained for how much we paid and respect that.
I paid $30 for this game during the Christmas sale of 2013 and I feel more than compensated for the thousands of hours I've played. These days the game goes for less than $10 when on sale and people are still getting thousands of hours. I, personally, don't think an inaccurate dew collector erases all of that. If they do more research and decide to make it appear more realistic then that would be great. But if they don't, I disagree that that is somehow disrespecting of what everyone paid for the game.
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16 hours ago, ktr said:
Still doesn't mean I think that my sudden inability to boil water but can drink it through a magical filter is a good choice.
Just to clarify…You can and will still need to boil water. You will find murky water and if you have a pot you will want to boil it into good water. You can also drink directly from streams and lakes without a filter so streams and lakes are not worthless. The dew collectors are great. I know that’s just my opinion but I’ve started over a few times now and they haven’t lost their charm nor will they as far as I can tell. Just like developing any farm that generates stuff for you, a dew collectors farm just feels good to create.
I’m first to admit that at first it felt strange to not be able to gather water from a source into containers and bring it all back to the base to boil. But…I can also state that with no jars in the game you soon forget about it and accept it as the reality of the game. I know I can drink straight from a stream and that I can’t gather it. I don’t think about it any more.
The loot tables have been adjusted quite a bit. I am much more often than not crafting things well before I can find a better version. That includes weapons and tools that require loot-only parts.
I just did a 50% loot test run to see how it affected things and it is super tough.
My next test run will be with xp point jacked up so I can progress faster and get to the point that purple gear starts showing up to see if they are invalidating crafting like many feel they do.
The changes are quite simply a lot of fun. Whether they needed to be done or not is a matter of opinion but Inreally enjoy the magazines for professing crafting and the skill points for progressing perks and the water farming game is great.
It’s The Fun Pimps. They just pimped the game with some more fun.
23 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:Roland, you don't get it and you likely never will.
Thank you for your feedback. Here at TFP, we appreciate your point of view and hope that you will experience a high level of entertainment value with our products. Have a nice day.1 -
25 minutes ago, Vedui said:
7 days to die without it will be just fine. It just won't be great or at the top of the genre.
Why would 7 Days to Die be without those things? As you stated, it already includes those things thanks to the tools and hooks provided by the developers for exactly that purpose.
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Its also an anagram for "O ski mo duo" which clearly shows that he is annoyed by all the snow boarding freaks jamming up the slopes these days. He wants more people on two skis like God intended.
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45 minutes ago, Blake_ said:
@Roland can you tell us more about the perks that are filling the "crafting gap" that magazines opened? It would be quite exciting to be able try out new things brought up by those new additions. The best part of magazines is that there will be more of that "perky stuff" for us to play with.
I mean, I believe madmole is on that with the team at the moment, right?
You haven't perked into Forum Negotiations enough to convince me to spill those beans. Even if you did, I haven't perked nearly enough into Madmole Knuckle Rub Avoidance to risk it.
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9 hours ago, meganoth said:
By the way, according to TFP seed production from harvest with no points in LotL is a losing bargain on purpose.
QFT. If you have not spent any points on Living off the land you should not be trying to build a huge farm. You should just plant whatever seeds you find and harvest the crops for food and live off of whatever you manage to get as a supplement to however else you are getting food--presumably hunting.
With one perk point spent you can slowly and painfully build a farm but often with setbacks. With two and with three perk points spent it gets easier and faster to build up a self sustaining farm.
1 hour ago, Xeen said:I guess if everyone is happy with current seed returns and spending large amounts of the crops on crafting seeds then my small voice of dissent doesn't matter.
It matters and it isn't just your small voice there are lots of voices saying the same thing you are. Its just that this whole debate raged at the beginning of A19 when the changes first hit the fan, so to speak, and that was about 2 years ago. You're just late to the party. TFP did spreadsheets and tests before it was ever released to experimental. Then when a lot of voices said the same thing you did, lots of people did exactly what Quantum Blue just did and we all talked about it and TFP saw all of it and internalized it and made the decision to keep things largely as they are. They DID adjust LotL 2 so that it was better than it was and that was thanks to community feedback.
It really is simply that everything that is being brought up now (including the math, spreadsheets, and tests) were done vigorously and thoroughly by people internal to TFP and people external to TFP a long time ago and they are very unlikely to change farming at this point and what they have chosen is definitely not out of some lack of understanding about the ramifications of the math. They really truly don't believe that a self-sustaining farm should be possible unless at least one point is spent in farming.
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I voted for a limit. It is just stupid having unlimited jobs all the time. A limit would not be unrealistic at all. It doesn't have to be an artificial "you reached your limit for today". Instead it would simply be the trader telling you that there are no more jobs that day. In fact, I'd like the limit to be a random number between 0 - 4 so that some days there is plenty of work and other days there is none and you'll have to go exploring on your own or get other things done.
Unlimited quests is too much like LBD. You can spam them and you rise in tier quickly by spamming them getting better at them the more you do them and so it dominates the game which was one of the big weaknesses of LBD. It also feels contrived and unnatural that there would be so much work available to do. Obviously, there are other survivor associates of the traders who can also take jobs and so it makes sense that the list of jobs available for a day dwindle until the Trader tells you there are none left for the day so please come back tomorrow.
Of course, the limit would be per trader so as you found more traders your opportunities to work would expand. If Jen has no work today (or no more work) then you drive over to Rekt's and see what he has for you to do. This would encourage players to "do the rounds" between traders and progress the quest tiers up for all of them instead of just sticking to the one that gives unlimited highest tier quests and ignoring the rest.
On a similar note I'd like to see random open and closed times so that maybe a trader isn't even open when you go and so you have to visit a different one. Random amount of jobs, random open/close times all make the traders seem more alive like maybe THEY are doing a job or on a loot run so no jobs to give out today or even "sorry, we're not open right now".
The only downside of this is that those who LIKE spamming quests and having zero limits won't be able to have their playstyle. If it remains the same I can always voluntarily limit myself if that's what I want to do. Best would probably be a slider in the options menu for 1 quest per day, variable quests per day, and unlimited quests per day on a per trader basis. Don't forget the switch for variable trader open times and I'd be happy.
But if I had control I would screw over all those quest spammers and make it variable quests per day with no other option...heheh.
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1 hour ago, welshboy0420 said:
Okay thank you, will buy it again soon
It often goes on sale for less than $10
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12 hours ago, welshboy0420 said:
Hi is there anyway that people on the pc gamepass version (bought before knowing it was on steam) to test the beta versions or would i have to buy the game on steam to test experimental versions
No. The beta function is a Steam function and so can only be accessed through the Steam interface.0 -
4 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:
I could create a poll to see who is behind this idea!
That's not a decision we can make by ourselves. We should do a poll.
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15 hours ago, Khalagar said:
My stance is just that the person with the most investment towards a specific thing should have the best version of that specific thing, but that isn't how 7 Days works.
Where I disagree with your stance is that if the way you want things were true then the game would be 100% deterministic and every time you played it would always be the same result. 7 Days doesn't work like that and therefore you have variation across several playthroughs even if you choose the same progression path for your character because random factors may reward you with a purple tool perfectly fitted for you or it may not and you'll have to survive with what you've got. We can determine our success to a point but not everything and I think that part that is out of our control is great for replayability-- especially since you can be successful with a fully modified blue weapon in which you are fully perked. Nobody needs a purple anything even if they might want one.
15 hours ago, Khalagar said:If you are in a group / online server in general, every single second you spend in your base *not* looting is another second you are behind the people who are, which is pretty weird design for a game with as many non-looting related systems as 7 Days have.
Its only weird if you think that TFP is focusing on competitive PVP multiplayer gameplay and trying to balance the game to that. But that isn't the focus. The focus is on friends or family getting together and playing together. Who cares if your son finds a better weapon than you? Why do you have to keep up or get ahead of your friend? These concerns are only valid if you are playing the game to kill other players on the server or compete with them to see who can race fastest to top levels of everything. You can play that way but it isn't within the scope of the default game. The devs are building a game where it doesn't matter at all whether you are behind or ahead of other people in the server. There are no bonus points for reaching the top first. If you get to level 50 by day 8 and I get to level 50 by day 22 that is okay.
15 hours ago, Khalagar said:Welp you are now 2+ t4 quests behind your friend who lives in a 5x4 wooden shed, and he found better stuff that furthers the gap and makes it ever harder to catch up
And we are trying to catch up because.....? This "problem" is unsolvable anyway. Even if TFP came up with the perfect system to make sure two friends stay close in level to each other, one of those friends might not be able to play for a week of rl and now suddenly the other one is 2+ t4 quests ahead and finding better stuff. There is no way to end such disparities and that's fine because in PvE it doesn't matter in the least if someone is ahead and someone else is behind.
15 hours ago, Khalagar said:It's a pretty feels bad man moment when games do that, and it happens a LOT if you play with friends in loot driven games like Diablo / Path of Exile / Borderlands / Monster Hunter etc. Where you are like "GUYS PLEASE go eat lunch or something so I can actually enjoy the game and do the RP crap without getting left behind". It starts to feel like a chore trying to keep up, which is precisely why I'm against all the "Looting is the only thing that matters and only way to progress" changes
That feeling comes from within yourself and is not generated by a game. I play with people who I know and like and sometimes they are ahead and I don't feel any of the anxiety you are describing. The only thing that comes up in that regard is me telling them to not give me all their hand-me-downs which are better than my primary gear because I want to do it on my own. (Okay, I might take a pump action shotgun if it is offered, sue me). You tell them to go eat lunch so you can catch up. How can developers work into their balance negotiations between players to play more or less often to keep them from progressing faster or slower than each other?
I just think you are too concerned about your progress compared to others. If it were a PvP server, I would understand it, but from your posts it seems like you are playing with friends you know and you aren't killing each other. So.....why the concern over relative progress?
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12 minutes ago, Rotor said:
This thread reminds me of a NASCAR joke.
"Look, we are making another left turn!"
For people who join the thread late and don't read what was already posted, they think it is the first left turn...
8 hours ago, BFT2020 said:Lots of passive anger going on here
Not super passive though.
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12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:
Sarcastic arrogance. Expected. Historical patterns repeat themselves.
Lighthearted teasing. Misdiagnosed. Fixed mindset unable to see any other possibilities.
12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:I mean, you make jokes about my nickname
Your nickname is a joke or if not it is a challenge or a focal point for what you want to discuss. You opened the door for nickname commentary by choosing the one you did. I can help you change it if you don't want to come across as someone whose name is daring anyone to interact with you. Maybe if you had that name but your posts were chill but none of your posts have been chill. Speaking of repeating patterns-- aggressiveness.
Finally, even you admit they are jokes. They are JOKES. This is a forum about the zombie apocalypse. We joke and banter and have fun. You want serious business and straight faces and earnestness? Try the mayo clinic forums. Their subject matter is a more serious.
12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:It never used to be like this in the early days of TFP, but things changed over the years.
I haven't changed my style from day 1 close to 7 years ago.
12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:Good to know. Maybe you should try talking about what's being discussed instead of being a petty individual seeking to push buttons and p*ss off your community members.
Your problem is that you came here @%$#ed off. I can't control that. I don't treat you differently than anyone else and I'm not @%$#ing off that many people. You can't keep blaming external forces for your internal emotional state. Let it go. This place is most assuredly different than Steam but if you keep posting with a chip on your shoulder and can't lighten up then you are simply going to fulfill your own prophecy. I don't bear you any ill will. You've come against me pretty strongly in your post questioning my cognitive abilities and smacking me down in personal attacks to a much higher degree than my jokes about your nickname. Yet, I'm willing to let bygones be bygones if you can simply relax and enjoy your time here rather than going the opposite direction.
12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:Besides, the dumb down of the game subject isn't even what this discussion was about in the first place. This wouldn't be allowed on Steam (historical proof exists).
This isn't steam. The topic is the mistakes TFP are making with their development and "dumbing down the game for consoles" emerged as a part of the conversation. I'm fine with it being part of the conversation evidenced by my bringing it up instead of shutting it down. If you don't want to answer my questions, that's fine, but don't use "off topic" as an excuse. I'm using my vulgar display of power to say that it is on topic. So we're good to discuss.
12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:Reach Gaming - spot on, nailed it, but TFP doesn't want to face the truth and accept it, publicly. Honesty is a lot more respect worthy and welcomed than ignorant / arrogant pride.
I gave a a truthful response earlier in the thread and gave evidence for why Reach's speculations were off the mark. Schwaanz also was there when Reach gave his opinion and responded to him with a TFP response. The information is here but you have to look for it.
I will forbear joking with you and keep things serious in all my responses from now on since that seems to be what you want.
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5 hours ago, Roland said:
TFP implementing a poll to ask what should be worked on next is about as likely as the government implementing a poll to ask what gas prices should be.
25 minutes ago, Crater Creator said:(keeping the thread lighthearted)
I should have said that TFP implementing a poll so they can follow wherever popular opinion leads them is about as likely as Kuosimodo posting more than an emoji on the forum. Its more on topic and less likely to happen before the government lets us choose our own gas prices and so a better example.
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On 8/22/2022 at 8:04 AM, kidmo31 said:
I am gonna try to keep this simple. Player since release on steam. I have seen this game grow over time. Some good (getting rid of 5x5 crafting ) some bad.
The whole point of early access is to grow the game WITH your player base. Fix issues that arise but keep a focus and vision.
Now I hear another revamp is coming to skills and all I can think back to is "How much we are gonna love this system" the last few total overhauls.
I could care less about which system the devs land on but destroying playstyles just because is where I draw the line.
It seems the devs are focusing more on exploits and realism rather than Is this fun? So now with learn by looting Builders and Hunters are getting the shaft.
Everyone now has to be a scavenger there is no choice. That is where this game shines right now is choosing how you want to play and still grow doing it.
I know my group will continue to play but we are all wondering WTF is happening with the design side of this game. Systems should have been the starting point not the end and gutting the core systems for I think a 3rd time is getting tiresome. Granted 5x5 crafting was crap. Learn by doing was my jam. Pick a skill I have begrudgingly been playing as Builders were not hindered. Learn by Loot just sounds like trying to solve progression with a hammer. We all railed against Pick a Skill . By moving to Learn by Loot you proved all of us right that it was a crap way to fix progression. We may not be making the game but some of us have put in the time to know what's fun. It is starting to feel like the person making systems is not actually playing the game demonstrated every time Alpha release season is upon us and we watch the creator play the game badly. This is why mods have been the way to go anymore. At least modders listen.
Everyone has their definition of "revamp" I don't see these new changes as revamps but as a natural evolution of development. It is a change but the changes are really very minor but do have a large effect on the game. In my opinion, those are the most elegant and interesting changes. A small adjustment that results in a whole new way to play the game is always amazing to witness.
There is no way to tell if any particular individual will like or dislike the changes once they play them or whether someone is going to call the changes a "total revamp of the whole game" or not. I, personally, enjoy the change and look forward to future ones. So how many more revamps? As many as it takes until the creators say their work is done.
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On 8/18/2022 at 12:06 PM, SURVIVE said:
Oh well here in the the states we used to vote. and the devs wanted our feedback. so you would think our agreements on things that needed to be addressed would be so. Like if our "beloved" president gave the people a poll about gas prices. Do you want them up or down? 20% say up and 80% says down. He hikes em up anyway voiding any use the vote had stating "we gotta buckle down."
TFP implementing a poll to ask what should be worked on next is about as likely as the government implementing a poll to ask what gas prices should be. There's never been a poll that directed the design of this game. It has all come from the development team. Your expectations of what early access is all about is off with this development studio. There may be other games that let the community completely control the direction of the development but not this one-- nor has it ever been that way.
Maybe you think it should be that way and you are welcome to make a case for that development model. Regardless, it is not how THIS game is going to be designed.. The devs do want our feedback but feedback is different than having a vote. They've never asked for our votes.
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9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:
It was tried on Steam and the same result occurs that occurs here. You challenge us, but if we take the challenge and point out negatives, you negate the negative criticism or feedback by trying to issue counter arguments, dodging what the person is trying to say by overflowing it with regurgitated defences that have no substance after an entire decade of being regurgitated by TFP and their volunteers. If it's not that, then we just randomly disappear and nobody see's us speak on the board or forum again unless we make another account to do so. Why bother when you don't really want to hear what we have to say in the first place? It doesn't matter what we say, Roland. You will defensively counter argue / 'challenge' people until they give up because they're tired of talking to a wall of fanatical bias. You don't want your time wasted, so why would we waste ours doing something we're told to do, but not really allowed to because TFP and volunteer biases don't permit it? Why talk wet paint on a wall into drying?
Reach Gaming's points are reflective on this forum. The patterns are very real. It's at a point nowadays that they are highly predictable and we can often at times now, even see them coming before the patterns even emerge. The pattern on this discussion - highly predictable and expected. History has shown us nothing different as it continually repeats itself.
Reach Gaming is right. Sad, but true.PS. Fix your guy's damn forum it's a bloody mess. I had tons of quote responses here, but it decided to not include them with the last quote. This forum is a mess. Maybe you guys could bring it up to the year 2022 instead of it feeling and behaving like a website from 2008? Yet another pattern. SMH.
You really misnamed yourself. It should be youcanthaveaconversationwithme…Youve spent all your time explaining exactly how the Steam forum managed to get rid of you but won’t engage in a two-way discussion here.
Maybe your handle should be steamgotridofmedammit since that’s all you seem to want to discuss here.
You’re welcome to stay and participate but you should know that we allow all opinions to be expressed and any opinion to be challenged. This is a forum and not simply an announcement board.
It is exactly the process of several people expressing their opposing opinions that allows readers to decide what they think the truth is. I may not convince you and you may not convince me but hundreds of others read both sides and are convinced one way or another.
But that’s cool. Like I said, I offered up my evidence to show that the game has not been on a “dumb it down for console” trend and you offered nothing to show that it is. I mean, you can’t because there isn’t any and so instead you have to fall back on reasons why nobody should ever disagree with any opinion ever posted…
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9 hours ago, RipClaw said:
It all depends on how fast you make progress even if you spend, say, 50% of your time building. If the progress is so slow that people feel they have to loot more to survive the next horde, they will do that. Not because it's the most efficient, but because they feel they have to.
Of course, players who only loot will have a much faster progress. And this is where balancing comes into play.
As long as the developers don't forget that building still exists and don't throw it out of the game because nobody builds anymore anyway.
That's always my fear when aspects of the game are neglected. The developers might feel that it is unnecessary and can be removed.
Building is one of Madmole’s favorite activities. I can’t imagine a universe in which building is forgotten.2 -
18 hours ago, Khalagar said:
and now building and stuff will be very sub-optimal because you aren't spending that time looting for skill books instead.
And yet building and stuff remains as much fun in its own right as it ever was-- more so with all the cool blocks. I suspect that people who enjoy playing the game for all of what it has to offer will do some building, some looting, some farming, some mining, some crafting and feel very satisfied while those who must chase the optimal path in order to level as quickly as possible will once again paint themselves into a corner where they think the devs have forced them to go.
If building in A21 all of a sudden feels pointless and with every block someone places they feel an itch that they should be out there looting instead because that is what is what is going help them progress faster, then I say that person never really enjoyed building anyway. They were just doing what they felt was the optimal action to progress quickly.
14 hours ago, RipClaw said:I admit that the new shapes are an improvement for builders, but building itself is still optional. There is no real advantage to build a base from scratch since many POIs are suitable as horde bases after minor adjustments.
uh...fun and enjoyment? I usually modify an existing structure because I find it quite fun to gut it and then change it to my needs and as a builder I am not very creative. But others love to build for the enjoyment that it offers and the satisfaction they get from surviving a horde night with their design. There is nothing wrong with it being optional. Honestly, for those who care most to optimize their gameplay, nothing is optional. They are forced by the devs to follow only one pathway. The one that is the most efficient.
If the developers made building from scratch advantageous then all the players who care most about optimizing and preferred to modify existing structures would be mad that TFP was suddenly forcing them to build from scratch.
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19 minutes ago, Matt115 said:
This is paradox Roland because 1. IF crafting is buffed this mean looting is less effective or 2. If looting is buffed that mean crafting is even less effective. There is not other options. LBL will forced players to scavengig even more - why to waste time to make workbench etc. if you can do quest to get candy and have better chance to find good eq.
During just upgrading walls you can now get so much EXP so - exp--> fast iron tools. Now? why to do anything except crates or just do workbench just to make minibike
Looting is better because of the wide variety of magazines there are now and the fact that you need multiples of the same one to work up the crafting ladders. In this way, looting is better because it feels rewarding to get a magazine and read it-- especially when it is a magazine that hits the next threshold so you learn how to craft something new or something better. Crafting is better because with this new system I am learning how to craft things that are of higher quality than what I can find. So when I advance a level in tool crafting because I just found a magazine that lets me craft a green stone axe I can craft one immediately and replace my previous yellow one.
You are using A20 thinking about looting vs crafting. In A20, you loot and find a weapon or you craft a weapon and most of the time the one you find is better than what you can craft. So yes, in that context better looting means worse crafting.
In A21, the thing that makes looting better is the means to being able to craft better rather than the item you want. So looting isn't better because suddenly the containers all have blue bows which means you never ever craft one. The looting is better because you've found enough archery magazines that increase your crafting skill to the point that you can make a blue bow while you are still only finding orange or yellow level bows in weapons containers.
So looting better and crafting better does exist. It's called A21.
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20 hours ago, Khalagar said:
I'm honestly not understanding what the point of the change even was / what it's targeted at fixing
Not every change is a fix for something that was considered bad that needed to be changed. However, in this case the change does help crafting become more relevant as unintuitive as that seems from just reading about the changes. I am crafting things much more often that I either just found or received as a reward. It also has injected a lot more important feeling loot into the containers that players are opening. It is going to take quite a bit of time to find all the magazines to max out a significant enough number of crafting trees for looting to feel humdrum because you're find stuff you don't really need any longer.
I believe the main point of the change was to help exploring and scavenging remain rewarding for longer. I know in previous alphas I would get to the point that I didn't care one bit about the type of loot inside kitchen cupboards and ovens. It all was junk that I no longer needed. Now all of these types of containers have a chance of containing magazines that stay relevant and rewarding for a long time.
Whether this change sounds the death knell for everyone who likes to hunker down or not will probably depend on each player's need to play optimally. If someone wants to hunker but also be efficient and level up in what they can craft quickly, then they will have to get out of their base and go find magazines. If someone is content to hunker and not worry about how fast they are learning how to craft stuff then they will be fine to do so and just progress slower.
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4 hours ago, SURVIVE said:
lol man move on already the rest of us have.
Well...yeah. The forums move on daily so when you quote something from 3 days ago that tends to happen lmao.
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Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Roland (see edit history)
That makes wolves Door Dash....