Thanks, I think I have it narrowed down to a .net issue. Went to update .net just to see whats up and that will not update, now it seems there is a can of worms I opened here, all my updates are fubar(d). Doing some rebuilding here. I am sure it's not your coding, but my .net. Just for the record, I7 2.8, 16 Gig Ram SSD HDD Windows 7 x64 ultimate, Nvidia 650ti, Bit Defender Free, turned all off and still just see a flash of a screen, looks like an error screen, but I cannot pause it o see.....