Structured First Impressions and Important Suggestions

[Abnormal Zombie]

NOTE: The following is intended to help construct a better console experience with small-scale changes. Some points are essential for quality of life improvements for all platforms. As a console user it can feel clear at times that the developers probably aren't playing on console, so I wish to share this perspective.
 

 

IMPORTANT SUGGESTIONS: [READ THIS SECTION IF ANYTHING]
 

Existing Features:

• Make skills clearly label all benefits - critically, the magazine loot bonuses. Benefits of each skill tier should be bulleted for easier comparisons.
  • WHY: Magazines are a MASSIVE part of a player's development, and hiding information on this leads to confusion. This ultimately partakes in loss of interest in the game within the casual playerbase.
    • Advanced Engineering, Dead Eye, Demolition Expert, Robotics Inventor, Heavy Armor, Physician, Living off the Land, Grease Monkey, and Lock Picking are all skills which DO NOT describe increased "related items" (magazine) loot rates.
    • Master Chef is the only skill which explicitly describes higher magazine drop rates, an inconsistency with other definitions.
    • Example: I got to day 20 and still didn't have a workbench because I didn't know the "Forge Ahead" magazine only appears regularly when investing in Advanced Engineering or Lock Picking skills.
• Make each Hotbar Tab optionally assignable to a controller button in the controller settings menu. There are two ways to do this:
  1. Make each button assignable to an action rather than each action assignable to a button. Include new hotbar actions.
  2. Add 10 new hotbar actions which by default have no assigned buttons.
  • WHY: Currently, there is NO way to immediately swap to an item you need NOW. This is something old-school 7 Days to Die (console) had, and it was useful. D-pad functionality is lacking greater purpose for my preferences.
    • Example: I want to bind D-pad Left to hotbar_1 for my main weapon, and D-pad Right to hotbar_5 for my heals.
    • The "Quick Select Wheel" when holding down LB, RB, or D-Pad Left is not fast enough, and that's 3 buttons that do the same thing when held.
• Make all shovels ignore grass (the plant fibre type).
  • WHY: Expending extra stamina and time hitting grass is annoying. Worse for fresh survivors. If you don't agree with this, you have no place on Earth.
• Remove "(Game Preview)" from the game name in the console stores.
  • WHY: People want to buy a game, not a preview. It is likely hundreds of sales have been lost due to this mislabelling. Frankly not professional.
• Change melee aim assist to engage only if the player isn't already targeting an enemy.
  • WHY: Creates bad initial impressions of untested game mechanics when aim assist forces attacks on inanimate objects if they are party obscuring an enemy.
• Fix how players interact with settings in menus.
  • WHY: Right Stick seems to be bound to both option-focus and option-change for the first instant input is recognized in each menu. This means when using the Right Stick to change a setting value while hovering over it, the option is selected and the values of those options erratically change. This is a glitch, and it happens once per menu. Not a great first impression.
• Improve sprinting mechanism to better work with thumb sticks while on the Sprint Lock "No" setting. Currently, sprinting disengages when the direction of the left thumb stick changes from forward, but it should stay engaged unless the thumb stick returns to a near-center position for more than 0.3 seconds. 0.3 seconds allows players to quickly change direction, moving the thumb stick through the center position as they dip & dodge, moving forward, backwards, or side-to-side.
  • WHY: Without this tuning, this is a big first impression for anybody familiar with first-person shooters. Mechanism needs improvement, because it is unusable in combat otherwise (I turned Sprint Lock to "Yes", but don't like it).

New Features:

• Show damage numbers on attacks, including damage from DoT. Three settings in options: ["On", "On with DoT", "Off"]
  • WHY: Satisfaction and knowledge. It is so hard to know how much damage is actually dealt, especially with skill modifiers or armoured enemies. Plus, numbers are cool.
• Show "Push D-pad to talk" tip in main UI when playing multiplayer.
  • WHY: It isn't intuitive to know how to talk with other players. Social connections are a MUST for the longevity of any game.
• Add a "Craft From" option to the HOLD-INTERACT-MENU of each storage container (of the crate-type). When selected, it applies all contents as available resources when next entering crafting mode in the player's inventory, a forge, a campfire, a workstation, or a chemistry station. Activating "Craft From" locks that container from other players. The storage container is highlighted when activated, and automatically "disconnects" when exiting any crafting menu, moving too far away, death, or interacting with anything else which isn't opening a craft-menu-type object. Option only available when the player has permission to the crate.
  • WHY: This allows the player to use local resources in their proximity for faster crafting in all scenarios and without having to put items back.
• Add new online mode with dedicated servers. This isn't a small-scale change, but would seriously revamp the game:
  • Random players.
  • Games continue even when any player disconnects, taking advantage of built-in features like absent base protection, land-claim blocks, and more.
  • A player "rank" now represents their performance in these game modes, and appears next to their names in ALL game modes.
  • Performance of players can now be tracked, and even rewarded, since the mode is officially governed.
  • Potential game mode variations could include "Last Survivor", "Rush", "Team Survival", and "Survival". "Rush" is a quicker mode which gives players starting equipment & blocks, building is easier, and each zombie kill is a skill point. The rest are self-explanatory.
  • Each game mode has mechanics created to work with a set-time game. Different modes have different max times, such as an hour or a week.
  • This will cost money to run, but will increase appeal for new content and increase appeal for people who like shorter "disposable" sessions.
  • WHY: Prolong game attraction, and, because. This is greyed-out because it's a big ask.

 

If you are a developer, please respect the several hours I put into writing this gold and take a minute to write me a response

Please continue reading the Minor/Other Suggestions. They are good, but not as necessary.

 

 

OTHER SUGGESTIONS:

Remember, one stick is weak, but a bundle is strong; many QOL improvements can hail great change.

 

Existing Features:

• Change the "relay" electrical item to be have relay functionality. New relay takes at least two inputs. In the relay menu, choose which input(s) control the relay switch (Input_S), and which input(s) are the power to go through the switch (Input_P). Within the menu the inputs are also labelled arbitrary names, but also indicate if they are currently powered for troubleshooting purposes. The menu has an option to set the relay switch to Normally Open, or Normally Closed. This means Input_P is not an output unless Input_C is on, and Input P is an output unless Input C is on.
  • WHY: This effectively allows turning things OFF when a power source is ON, as well as more complex logic.
• Allow the "Quick Move" action in an inventory interface to still work while manually grabbing/moving something.
  • WHY: This would allow players to quickly move specific amounts, like 3, out of a stack of 100, and without needing an extra inventory slot to reposition quantities.
• Fine-tune which blocks zombies see as ground.
  • WHY: Prevents players from making unorthodox bases which are impossible for zombies to attack. True survival is prestigious.
• Allow the Treasure Hunter Mod and each Attribute Boosting Mod to be used with each-other.
  • WHY: I have never chosen to boost an attribute over the Treasure Hunter Mod (more experience). Bonus attribute bonuses is a nifty bonus, if you got the mod space.
• Replace the Night Vision graphic overlay.
  • WHY: Makes this feel like an indie game otherwise. Fo real.
• Make melee attacks hit detection spread always zero for non entity type objects (blocks/doors), excluding crops. Do this for throwables as well.
  • WHY: Some attacks, like power attacks, will have a larger area of focus which can prioritize objects over zombies. An example is spearing through a damaged door, but a power attack hits the door from the same vector. 100% precision to hit blocks is okay. This might be good for thrown weapons too, as I have set myself afire several times when I didn't think I was aiming the molotov at an object next to me - I never use throwables through openings because of this.
• In inventory menus, enable RT and LT to switch between item "stats" and "description" tabs, like they do with other menu tabs. Also enable this on the Character menu.
  • WHY: Convenience. Moving the cursor with the stick becomes cumbersome after so many times. There is lots of information in the menus, so expediting it would be nice.
• Fix quantity text colours in the forge, and help us understand what LB does.
  • WHY: The quantities appear green or red and seem to stay that way even when reopening the forge. At times the colours flicker in a glitched manner. Pressing LB when initially opening a forge can trigger a sound effect and change which quantities are coloured - but I still don't know what it means, if anything logical.
• Fix bicycle reverse after collision so it actually reverses.
  • WHY: If reversing is attempted while colliding with an object, the bike continues to try to move forward. Might apply to all vehicles.
• Make the map quick-waypoint (red flag) removable.
  • WHY: It can only be hidden and not removed, and is hard to select to hide.
• When an area-type quest is accepted, immediately check for and save all containers in that quest area which are "untouched". When the quest is initiated and the area is reset, do not reload the contents of all containers which were saved.
  • WHY: This prevents double-looting, which is something I admit to taking advantage of all the time. In the context of a survival game, this is better.
• Remove the intentional delay when switching held items in the hotbar via LB/RB, OR put the current item away while switching so it can't be used while another item is selected.
  • WHY: Even though this helps create the last-held item for a quick switch (d-pad left), it creates three problems:
    1. Players cannot quickly use items, like heals, while in a fight since item has not yet changed. (Two of my deaths)
    2. Makes the game look slow, as if it struggles to keep up.
    3. Doesn't promote fast reflexes, or "pro" gaming.
• Change map loading algorithm by prioritizing locations of the player(s) first, and allow the player to enter the world while continuing to load the remainder. After player has entered the world, throttle CPU usage as to not impact performance for the remainder of the load time.
  • WHY: Long wait times are unappealing. I personally got an Xbox X just to play this game, and I was flabbergasted at how long it took despite the new tech.
• Improve main menu load time after exiting a game.
  • WHY: It should not take 10 seconds to load resources for a menu of no animations.
• Make sounds relative to the object which created them, not the player.
  • WHY: If a player were to throw a rock so far as to barely make a sound from the player's perspective, it will attract zombies, BUT if the rock is thrown further, and the player cannot hear it land, the zombies also cannot hear it. This also means that any sound the player makes, like surreptitiously opening a door from a short distance, attracts the zombies directly to the player and not the door - because the door isn't relevant.
• Make vertical displacement of sounds adjust their loudness to the player.
  • WHY: If I am not mistaken, sounds which happen infinitely above or below the user are still heard as if they are in close proximity. X and Y displacement are the only relevant variables, but Z is not. (Requires more testing)
• Make zombies slower and NOT faster when they stumble from an attack. Could include a "falling forward" animation which can damage the player, but puts the zombie on the ground.
  • WHY: It doesn't make sense for zombies to gain momentum after being shot with arrows or hit in the head.
• Add a built-in permission type for doors called "ALL", which applies to doors when grabbing keys on walls. Optionally the automatic opening of the doors can be turned off for realism.
  • WHY: There's nothing like needing to close a door you have the key for to stop a horde from tearing you apart.
• Improve experience gained from crafting items.
  • WHY: Experience gained is negligible and nearly an insult. It can stay diminishing, but need significance.
• Improve the trader Quick Select menu (hold interact) so that selecting Trade bypasses quest rewards.
  • WHY: Bypassing rewards allows the player to sell some of their haul before accepting rewards which they might not have space for.
• Improve zombie pathfinding by allowing zombies to jump gaps, which are considered in their paths if they are not crawlers. This could be calculation-heavy for the algorithm, so here is a solution. Internally mark all blocks which players have jumped from in the past several hours. Those blocks are considered in the new algorithm. Before pathfinding is calculated, marked blocks are extended internally one block outwards in all directions. Note: This method could be exploited where the true path is below a marked block and not across from it.
  • WHY: Better game mechanics for intense defence. I'm not a fan of weasels.

New Features:

• Add purpose for rare minerals other than selling (don't even mention the Diamond Blade Tip Mod).
  1. Silver/Gold/Diamond cosmetics which require the respectable materials to craft (10 of each for one cosmetic). These cosmetics produce a shine effect.
  2. New electronics with Gold as an ingredient.
  3. Over-kill diamond-tipped projectiles with super penetration?
  • WHY: We all want that bling, baby.
• Add a shortcut to craft max quantity.
  • WHY: It's one of the few things I spend most time moving the cursor for.
• Add an icon of the item required of a repair next to the Repair option on an item.
  • WHY: It's good to know what you're about to expend.
• Add a Jackhammer which is used for breaking stone-based materials, OR add a Diamond-Tipped Auger Mod which requires several diamonds to craft. With the first option, change the functionality of the Auger to work mainly on soil, and the Jackhammer power source is a car battery - but still makes plenty noise.
  • WHY: Augers aren't meant for going through rock, so it is sensible. Gives more purpose to Car Batteries and charging them.
• Add a tool-tip which shows new players about the Core Character Stats and Extended Character Stats in the Character Menu.
  • WHY: I only JUST discovered this while doing live research for this thread. It even shows damage for my held item relative to my stats. Oh my gawd!
• Add a new rare zombie called the mole-man whose specialty is digging (now I'm just having fun).
  • It is massive and strong like a bear, but more importantly it is incredibly ugly.
  • It can spawn when a target player is 20 blocks below its proposed spawn point, but unlikely to spawn.
  • It is loud and makes creepy "heavy" and rapid digging noises, alerting the player to its presence.
  • Does relatively 10x damage to dirt, stone, and ores; relatively 3x damage to other blocks.
  • It does NOT change it's calculated path once spawned unless attacked AND below 75% health, showing its dedication. It's target is the original location of target player.
  • Designed to create an underground path to deep bases, which if completed, compromises the base and creates a path for other zombies.
  • Forces players out of their bunkers in order to kill it before breaching.
  • Pathfinding is unique. It digs at a downward angle until it levels out, about 10 blocks away from it's target location, where it then digs forwards to. After reaching original target location, it targets the nearest player.
  • Could have a unique attack animation. If the target player has a fully damaged helmet, or no helmet, it can instantly kill the player by biting their head.
  • WHY: Because. Awesome. Fear.

 

 

FIRST IMPRESSIONS (Negative only): [details of most points are in the suggestions]

This is written to be from the perspective of someone who might be new to 7 Days to Die.

• Long wait time upon map load.
• Changing settings in the main menus with the right stick is buggy and not intuitive. Can spam into fast and erratic movements while also changing things unexpectedly.
• Aim assist makes melee attacks more likely to miss, especially when attacking around objects. "I need to turn this off!"
• Experience from crafting is negligible/disappointing.
• Default sprinting is strange and disengages when it shouldn't. Need to use Sprint Toggle, but I'm not liking it.
• Frequent visual lag spike. Game continues to run during spike. AI gets advantage.
• Not easy to quickly change between items in hotbar.
• Hidden loot isn't rewarding as it's often literal trash.
• Benefits of skills are not clear. Massive game-changing mechanics are not described.
• ...Might add more if I can retain my memories.

 

FIRST IMPRESSIONS (Positive):

• News and updates screen looks great. High tier game feel.
• Great tips in loading screen.
• Insanely good building designs. Lots of to discover and appreciate.
• Lots of detail to core game mechanics.
• Impressive exposure/visibility mechanics while sneaking.
• ...Definitely more, but I am tired and have spent enough time on this. The productive criticism and critical suggestions are the focal point of this thread.

Edited September 10 by Abnormal Zombie (see edit history)

[GuardianReaper0]

First off, I’d like to note that I too am a console player. While some of your suggestions are good and make sense, you really should split this up into different topics, because it’s going to be an absolute mess discussing so many things on the same page. I’m going to TRY to give feedback so you at least have a place to start on the big ones that I disagree with.

 

That said, upon initial read-through, there are a lot of things here that are not actually issues, but you are may believe they are due to lack of understanding. For instances like these, I will BOLD the first part. 
Ok, here it goes.

 

Magazines

Some of them do, some of them don’t talk about increasing chances of getting the books, and while some better clarity would be nice, I don’t think this is the main reason you are struggling with this. 
Having those perks increase your chances of getting books out of “random book” locations such as book shelves and skill book bundles. HOWEVER, there are certain types of loot containers that have their respective type of books in them..

- cooking books from cabinets

- vehicle books from vehicles and gas station crates

- workbench books from ruined workbenches, especially cement mixers

- medical books from medical related boxes

- etc.

 

So depending on where players go to loot, ie residential, construction sites, gas stations, certain types of stores, there will be more of a certain type of book there. Which is why especially in early game stages, I only bother with missions in areas I actually care about the loot, especially when it comes to construction sites. 
This is where I am guessing that you had your trouble with not having a workbench for 20 days. I doubt you spent much time going for places that had those kind of containers, as you likely prioritized something else. 
KEEP IN MIND, the progression of missions from the trader will generally start out with the low level ones sending you to areas dense with books you NEED early on:

- residential (food and construction books)

- mines (tools and construction books)

- construction sites (tool and workbench books

- farms (seed, food, and tool books)

- etc. 

The mistake that many players make is that they try to get through the low tier missions as fast as they can, not realizing that those really help them get started, and they will often prioritize a mission type rather than the location!

 

As it stands, the book system works great in my opinion, you just need to understand it.

————-

Hotbar

Your complaint that you can’t swap to what you need quickly I feel is lack of understanding. 
While yes, you can use the bumpers to toggle left and right, you can also HOLD a bumper, and it brings up a selection wheel that makes it super quick to select from.

Additionally, using left on the D-pad switches between the current item and the previous item. 
———-

 

“Game Preview”

Since the game is still technically in stage where it is incomplete, this is necessary for legal reasons. 
 

———-

Aim Assist

Personally I absolutely love the aim assist with melee. I have never had it track on an inanimate object like you have said. As far as it helping 100x YES. Idk if you ever played the old version, but there was no aim assist there and it was terrible.

If you still don’t like it, there is an option to turn it off.

———-

Sprint Lock

Just get used to using sprint toggle. Just because people coming from fast paced shooters and such don’t find it intuitive, doesn’t mean there is an issue.

Personally, I was super grateful when I learned there was sprint toggle, it’s a lot less stress on the thumb.

———-

Damage numbers

i get where you are coming from, but that’s more of an arcade feature. I feel like breaking immersion in that way is a big no.

Maybe they can make it an option and just have it off by default.

——-

Craft in box thing

While I think maybe being able to link one storage box to a WORKBENCH would be a good idea, doing it the way you suggested would cause a lot of griefing issues. 
Players would be able to essentially use all the materials to craft something and their teammate not able to stop it, while also locking them out of the crate.

 

by making it tied to a workbench however, other players could stop it from crafting if they need to.

———

Dedicated Servers

They are already in the works. They are slated to come out before the year is over.

Until then, play with your friends and better learn the game so you are ready when they get here.

———-

Quick move

Play with the “x” button (Xbox) you’ll figure it out.

——-

Zombie intelligence 

They are working on making them better, but in a balanced way. They don’t want to make them structural engineers after all.

Do note, BANDITS are in the works too, so those may be the solution you are looking for. 
——-

Text color in forge

This in most definitely just a lack of understanding. 
- Green indicates there is material of that type going into the forge

- Red indicates those materials will be used to craft what is selected

- The “glitchy effect” you are seeing is the result of the maximum amount smelted being reached, but more material trying to be added! The limit is 30k. 

——

Experience from Crafting 

Low grade things give very little xp, but higher grade things do to some degree. Upgrading structures for example gives a lot more xp. 
Its to avoid exploiting type gameplay, sitting idle in a corner crafting non-stop rather than actively doing something.

That was a big issue in previous version.

—— 

Gold, Silver, Diamonds

I posted a suggestion about this not very long ago. Go check it out.

——-

Jackhammer

There already exists an item called “bunker buster” that you can equip on auger and other tools to very quickly cut through rock. I find dozens of them early game.

——-

Digging type zombie (this I agree with)

Definitely deserves its own section for discussion

———

Hope this feedback helps you.

Please PLEASE PLEASE make separate topics for the important things. It took you two hours to write this and it took an hour just to read and reply, not to mention how jumbled comments will get. 

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

When an area-type quest is accepted, immediately check for and save all containers in that quest area which are "untouched". When the quest is initiated and the area is reset, do not reload the contents of all containers which were saved.

• WHY: This prevents double-looting, which is something I admit to taking advantage of all the time. In the context of a survival game, this is better.

 

This has been often suggested in the forum and the developers replied that they don't see double-looting as a problem because you could as well just loot a different building in the neighborhood to get the same effect.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

Make skills clearly label all benefits - critically, the magazine loot bonuses. Benefits of each skill tier should be bulleted for easier comparisons.

 

The benefits are labeled on the magazine pages. Also it might be possible that a journal tip explains the situation.

 

5 hours ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

Add a shortcut to craft max quantity.

 

Interesting, there has been a button for this on the PC side for a loooong time. I would bet this is something on the todo list of the team that does the console porting.

 

5 hours ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

Benefits of skills are not clear. Massive game-changing mechanics are not described.

 

Have you read the journals? Most players seem to overlook them.

Edited September 10 by meganoth (see edit history)

[GuardianReaper0]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

This has been often suggested in the forum and the developers replied that they don't see double-looting as a problem because you could as well just loot a different building in the neighborhood to get the same effect.

 

 

 

 

The benefits are labeled on the magazine pages. Also it might be possible that a journal tip explains the situation.

 

 

Interesting, there has been a button for this on the PC side for a loooong time. I would bet this is something on the todo list of the team that does the console porting.

 

 

Have you read the journals? Most players seem to overlook them.

As far as the button for max crafting, there IS a button, it just requires you to move the cursor over to it and press it. 
 

I just assumed he was saying he didn’t want to have to move the cursor around.

 

Overall, it’s not really even an issue, as it’s literally a one second difference.
 

 

[Riamus]

Just a tip.  A post that has a lot of different suggestions in it and is very long is far less likely to be read or considered than keeping suggestions in smaller posts.  I gave up about half way through myself.

[Abnormal Zombie]

14 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

Magazines

Some of them do, some of them don’t talk about increasing chances of getting the books, and while some better clarity would be nice, I don’t think this is the main reason you are struggling with this. 
Having those perks increase your chances of getting books out of “random book” locations such as book shelves and skill book bundles. HOWEVER, there are certain types of loot containers that have their respective type of books in them..

 

...

 

As it stands, the book system works great in my opinion, you just need to understand it.

————-

Hotbar

Your complaint that you can’t swap to what you need quickly I feel is lack of understanding. 
While yes, you can use the bumpers to toggle left and right, you can also HOLD a bumper, and it brings up a selection wheel that makes it super quick to select from.

Additionally, using left on the D-pad switches between the current item and the previous item. 
———-

 

“Game Preview”

Since the game is still technically in stage where it is incomplete, this is necessary for legal reasons. 
 

———-

Aim Assist

...

If you still don’t like it, there is an option to turn it off.

———-

Sprint Lock

Just get used to using sprint toggle. Just because people coming from fast paced shooters and such don’t find it intuitive, doesn’t mean there is an issue.

...

———-

Quick move

Play with the “x” button (Xbox) you’ll figure it out.

——-

Zombie intelligence 

They are working on making them better, but in a balanced way.

...
——-

Text color in forge

This in most definitely just a lack of understanding. 
- Green indicates there is material of that type going into the forge

- Red indicates those materials will be used to craft what is selected

- The “glitchy effect” you are seeing is the result of the maximum amount smelted being reached, but more material trying to be added! The limit is 30k. 

——

Experience from Crafting 

Low grade things give very little xp, but higher grade things do to some degree. Upgrading structures for example gives a lot more xp. 
Its to avoid exploiting type gameplay, sitting idle in a corner crafting non-stop rather than actively doing something.

That was a big issue in previous version.

—— 

Gold, Silver, Diamonds

I posted a suggestion about this not very long ago. Go check it out.

——-

Jackhammer

There already exists an item called “bunker buster” that you can equip on auger and other tools to very quickly cut through rock. I find dozens of them early game.

———

Hope this feedback helps you.

Please PLEASE PLEASE make separate topics for the important things. It took you two hours to write this and it took an hour just to read and reply, not to mention how jumbled comments will get. 

Thank you for the response GuardianReaper0, but I think there are some things I need to highlight. Each number refers to the respective quote section:

1. You suggest I wasn't looting properly, and that was why I didn't understand the game. I don't just go to Poopy Pants Daycare, I do all the venues and I turn over every rock. You tell me "I just need to understand it", but you forget the entire point of the suggestion. There is no explanation in the game. Lack of clarity of magazine discovery is an issue. Additionally, the multiplicative values skill-related item odds likely overpowers many other types of loot if they both share the same loot containers and one skill is invested in fully while another has nothing - a difference of 11x to 1x. I reckon more than 90% of casuals who have less than 20 hours under their belt will not understand the significance of skill-specific investment for magazine discovery. I am confident in my words. This needs to be fixed.
2. I know how to use my controller, and I know there are three buttons which activate the "quick select" menu for the hotbar - I even talked about this in the post. I fight up close and personal, which means I don't have time to hold a button and wait for a popup to choose my hotbar item - while my movement is halted too might I add. The last item D-pad swap is usually useless since anything could have been the last item held. My point in this suggestion was to specifically state that the selection wheel and D-pad options are not convenient or fast enough (selection wheel only).
3. No. All games get updates these days. This the nature of the game being bought, and thus does not need a disclaimer in the title explicitly. It is not required by law.
4. The aim assist is bad, and yes I did turn it off, as I said. I'll elaborate: The aim assist draws the aim of the player towards the vertical axis of the enemy, so if I am aiming for a shoulder while an enemy is mostly behind cover, I am now automatically targeting the sternum, which is behind a wall, and now I'm hitting a wall.
5. Okay. So I got a couple issues with what you said. 1) You say just get used to sprint toggle. Well, I have, and I didn't have choice, but also that's not how we fix things on Earth. 2) You think I believe there is an issue simply because it is different than other games. I didn't say that. I said there was an issue due to the fact that moving in any direction other than forward automatically disengages sprinting. If you think there isn't a problem, try using it for a while and tell me again it's "just different".
6. So, Quick Move. I think you are referring to my suggestion to more easily move a specific amount from a stack, where my example described not being able to easily move 3 from a stack of 100. First off, I'm starting to not appreciate your choice of words. Secondly, I want you to open a game and try moving 3 items from a stack of 100 when the source container has no extra spaces, but do it without moving the cursor from that spot. The solution is allowing the quick-move action (RIGHT_STICK_PRESS) after grabbing the stack and placing 3 back down (with X). Currently, quick move is disabled while moving items.
7. Zombie intelligence. You say it should be balanced, but how can it be unbalanced? If a zombie cannot pathfind to you when it sees you, that's just a hole in the focal point of the game.
8. Forge quantity colours. 1) Quantities are green regardless of what is going in. Random values are green while I write this and nothing is being smelted, and stay green when they are turned off. Additionally, LB seems to sometimes change what is green even when nothing else has changed. 2) I have seen quantities of 0 be red, not yet 30000. 3) The glitchy affect where the numbers flash every frame of the game is a bug not a feature.
9. Crafting experience. I agree building stuff gives good experiences, but you couldn't tell me all the crafting experience you have ever gotten put together has done you any favours.
10. I read your suggestion on new uses for gold/silver/diamonds. Not too bad.
11. Jackhammer idea. You misinterpret my suggestion. It is to relieve the auger of an ability it doesn't make sense to do. But in regard to the mod you mentioned, yes it gives a 25% boost, but I am talking about the difference of shovels and pickaxes to augers and jackhammers.
12. I wanted to keep all of this together. Ideas scattered in many threads easily get lost. I appreciate you taking the hour to respond to my post. I'm not sure where you got 2 hours from, but I spent far more time than that writing this.

I Hope this clarifies my points. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in some of them, but as I'm learning now, I can't edit a post after a certain time.

13 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

...

 

The benefits are labeled on the magazine pages. Also it might be possible that a journal tip explains the situation.

 

 

Interesting, there has been a button for this on the PC side for a loooong time. I would bet this is something on the todo list of the team that does the console porting.

 

 

Have you read the journals? Most players seem to overlook them.

1. The magazines tell you what they do... yes, but how are we supposed to know how to triple the odds of any magazine with 1 skill point in a specific, unadvertised skill?
2. I took a look, but the "Read A Magazine" Crafting Challenge describes nothing about magazine loot odds, and describing all the skills which affect each magazine would be too heavy.
3. Journals? I presumed you meant the tips from all the challenges. I read each one.

12 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

As far as the button for max crafting, there IS a button, it just requires you to move the cursor over to it and press it. 
 

I just assumed he was saying he didn’t want to have to move the cursor around.

 

Overall, it’s not really even an issue, as it’s literally a one second difference.
 

 

Yep.

10 hours ago, Riamus said:

Just a tip.  A post that has a lot of different suggestions in it and is very long is far less likely to be read or considered than keeping suggestions in smaller posts.  I gave up about half way through myself.

I didn't write it for people who give up.

Edited September 11 by Abnormal Zombie
Refining point # 6 in first quote response. (see edit history)

[meganoth]

7 hours ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

• The magazines tell you what they do... yes, but how are we supposed to know how to triple the odds of any magazine with 1 skill point in a specific, unadvertised skill?
• I took a look, but the "Read A Magazine" Crafting Challenge describes nothing about magazine loot odds, and describing all the skills which affect each magazine would be too heavy.
• Journals? I presumed you meant the tips from all the challenges. I read each one.

 

Sorry, I'll try to be more specific and tell you what I see on PC and you can compare that to the information on console:

 

When I call up the "Skills" menu (where you distribute your perk points) there are submenues for perks, books and magazines. In the magazine submenu is a list of all magazines: The "workstation" submenue has this text:

 

Quote

Reading "Forge Ahead" will unlock various workstations and their tools. Boost loot odds with "Advanced Engineering". "Lock Picking" boosts up to crafting level 15.

 

My "Journal" remark was wrong though. We had a submenu in all previous alphas where one could read a lot of helpful information for beginners. It was largely ignored by players and I assume this is the reason it seems to have been cut from version 1.0. Presumably the challenges are now how that information gets to novice players.

 

[meganoth]

8 hours ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

Additionally, the multiplicative values skill-related item odds likely overpowers many other types of loot if they both share the same loot containers and one skill is invested in fully while another has nothing - a difference of 11x to 1x.

 

When you loot a general container you have a chance of say 5% to find a magazine. If you hit that 5% then all 17 magazines have the same chance of 1/17 to drop.

 

Now you put one perk point into the pistol perk. When you loot a general container you now have the exact same chance of say 5% to find a magazine (so no overpowering of other types of loot). If you hit that 5% then every magazine has a chance of 1/18 to drop and the pistol magazine 2/18. It is as if you had a bag with 17 different marbles to draw from and then add another "pistol"-marble.

 

So even if you have pistol perk at 5, that means each other magazine has a 1/22 chance and the pistol magazine a 6/22 chance. A factor of 6 at max and you will find a pistol magazine only in 1/4 of all such general containers.

 

This is just the math: I share your opinion that it is still too much in normal play, not in single player, but if any player in co-op wants to do something else (like mining and building) his friends will not find many of the magazines HE needs to bring back, because they can't boost the odds unless they perk into skills they don't need

 

Edited September 11 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Abnormal Zombie]

10 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

When you loot a general container you have a chance of say 5% to find a magazine. If you hit that 5% then all 17 magazines have the same chance of 1/17 to drop.

 

Now you put one perk point into the pistol perk. When you loot a general container you now have the exact same chance of say 5% to find a magazine (so no overpowering of other types of loot). If you hit that 5% then every magazine has a chance of 1/18 to drop and the pistol magazine 2/18. It is as if you had a bag with 17 different marbles to draw from and then add another "pistol"-marble.

 

So even if you have pistol perk at 5, that means each other magazine has a 1/22 chance and the pistol magazine a 6/22 chance. A factor of 6 at max and you will find a pistol magazine only in 1/4 of all such general containers.

 

This is just the math: I share your opinion that it is still too much in normal play, not in single player, but if any player in co-op wants to do something else (like mining and building) his friends will not find many of the magazines HE needs to bring back, because they can't boost the odds unless they perk into skills they don't need

 

According to the wiki, each skill point invested increased odds by 200% for related items. Tier 0 is 100%, Tier 1 is 300%, 500%, 700%, 900%, then finally 1100% at tier 5. So in your example, and if the wiki is correct, it would actually be adding two marbles to the bag, not one. This would make a difference of 11 marbles for one magazine compared to 1 of other varieties, if any.

 

Regardless of the specifics, my particular skill investment for my first solo game made it very difficult to acquire magazines of certain varieties, unbeknownst to me. I am a detail oriented person, yet I was confused. It doesn't matter how anyone can argue how loot is found or calculated because it won't change the fact that it cannot be understood without online research or in-depth troubleshooting. It should be fixed as described.

Edited September 11 by Abnormal Zombie (see edit history)

[Abnormal Zombie]

15 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Sorry, I'll try to be more specific and tell you what I see on PC and you can compare that to the information on console:

 

When I call up the "Skills" menu (where you distribute your perk points) there are submenues for perks, books and magazines. In the magazine submenu is a list of all magazines: The "workstation" submenue has this text:

 

 

My "Journal" remark was wrong though. We had a submenu in all previous alphas where one could read a lot of helpful information for beginners. It was largely ignored by players and I assume this is the reason it seems to have been cut from version 1.0. Presumably the challenges are now how that information gets to novice players.

 

Ah yes. I see the submenu now, with the book icon. At first I thought you meant there was a submenu within each attribute tree or something of the likes. Being that there were some descriptions of skills which described drop rates, I presumed I wouldn't need to check elsewhere for more accurate information while playing. Many skill descriptions aren't consistent, but that's not easy to figure out.

Edited September 12 by Abnormal Zombie (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

2 hours ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

According to the wiki, each skill point invested increased odds by 200% for related items. Tier 0 is 100%, Tier 1 is 300%, 500%, 700%, 900%, then finally 1100% at tier 5. So in your example, and if the wiki is correct, it would actually be adding two marbles to the bag, not one. This would make a difference of 11 marbles for one magazine compared to 1 of other varieties, if any.

 

Percentages is not really a good measure of probability in this game.  At the baseline, each magazine starts at 1 in terms of probability.  To determine the probability of finding said magazine, you add all of the probability in the loot group together and divide it by that magazine's total probability.  So at baseline, you would have 1/23 probability of finding that specific magazine - 4.23%

 

Then lets say I perk into knives once.  Now my knives change is 3 and my total is 25 so 3/25 becomes a 12% chance of finding the magazine and a 4% of finding the others.

 

Next I spend perk points into agility more to get knives to the next level (level 3 agility).  Now my total changes again but differently.  Knives is now 5 but armor is now 3.  My total is 29 (23 base + 4 more for knives and 2 more for armor).  So knives I have around 17% chance of finding the knife magazine, a 10% chance of finding an armor magazine, and a 3.4% chance one of the other magazines. 

 

However, you are not going to keep seeing this significant boost as you continue to go upwards - next you perk up Knives again so now knives are 7 but armor is 5 (2 additional levels in agility).  Your total is now 33 (23 base plus 6 more for knives and 4 more for armor).  Knives you are 7/34 (20%) and armor is 14.7%.  The other magazines are at 2.9%.

 

Skipping the next perk and just maxing it out - knives is now at 11 and armor is also at 11.  Your total is 43 (23 base + 10 for armor + 10 for knives).  So knives is 11/43 is 25.5% and armor is 25.5%.  The other magazines are at 2.3 %

 

If you simply just maxed out one perk, that perk will end up affecting the pulls by a lot to two magazines (since armor is tied to the attributes).  However, say you distribute your points like I do when I play.  Before I even start distributing points into attributes for an agility build, I put a point into the base perks that I want to help me with my game - so miner 69r, master chef, living off the land, bows, knives, handguns, advanced engineering, and lockpicking.  In this case, my odds are now distributive over 7 crafting magazines.

 

And these only apply to loot groups that pull from all the magazines.  If you were to loot a working stiffs crate, then the odds of getting either of the armor or knife magazines is 0% with the bonuses.

 

Destroyed crafting stations have a great chance of pulling a forged ahead book, regardless of your perk choices, while cabinets have a great chance of pulling cooking magazines.

Edited September 12 by BFT2020
Making the perk level affects easier to read (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

On 9/10/2024 at 5:04 AM, Abnormal Zombie said:

 

• Show damage numbers on attacks, including damage from DoT. Three settings in options: ["On", "On with DoT", "Off"]
  • WHY: Satisfaction and knowledge. It is so hard to know how much damage is actually dealt, especially with skill modifiers or armoured enemies. Plus, numbers are cool.

 

They don't show the HP of zombies either, so I don't think this is something they want to do.  Having numbers flash up make this more into a Borderlands type of game which personally I wouldn't bat an eye if they never added this feature to the game.

 

• Quote

   

  • Allow the Treasure Hunter Mod and each Attribute Boosting Mod to be used with each-other.
    • WHY: I have never chosen to boost an attribute over the Treasure Hunter Mod (more experience). Bonus attribute bonuses is a nifty bonus, if you got the mod space.

   

 

I do all the time (use an attribute mod over treasure hunting.  It's a balance issue really, being able to stack mods like this tip the balance towards OP.

 

• Quote

   

  • Make zombies slower and NOT faster when they stumble from an attack. Could include a "falling forward" animation which can damage the player, but puts the zombie on the ground.
    • WHY: It doesn't make sense for zombies to gain momentum after being shot with arrows or hit in the head.

   

 

I am fine with the mechanic as is, because we also have slowing buffs available to the player that counteracts speed and speed bursts.  Also this means you can't just simply bash and backpedal to your heart's delight.  It adds a bit of trouble if you are not paying attention and account for the potential stumble attack.

 

I don't play on the console so I won't comment on those - since it doesn't affect me either way, not fair to do so.

[Abnormal Zombie]

29 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Destroyed crafting stations have a great chance of pulling a forged ahead book, regardless of your perk choices, while cabinets have a great chance of pulling cooking magazines.

If you're suggesting the chances of finding magazines in cabinets or workbenches doesn't change with skill investment, I think you are wrong there. While I don't have a large data sample to recollect with workbenches, I can definitely say the amount of cooking magazines found in cabinets is ridiculously high with Master Chef at max tier. I find one in every 2-3 cabinets I search. What I am saying is I don't think it is always so easy to find the Forge Ahead magazine in workbenches when the appropriate skills aren't invested in. Also, there may be other items found in workbenches whose chances could increase from other skills, thus reducing Forge Ahead odds - but I don't know the drop tables so I can't say specifically.

[Abnormal Zombie]

  

50 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

They don't show the HP of zombies either, so I don't think this is something they want to do.  Having numbers flash up make this more into a Borderlands type of game which personally I wouldn't bat an eye if they never added this feature to the game.

  I wouldn't dare compare to Borderlands. I just think it would add a feature people would enjoy. Also, the HP of zombies can stay hidden.

 

50 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I do all the time (use an attribute mod over treasure hunting.  It's a balance issue really, being able to stack mods like this tip the balance towards OP.

 Wouldn't it be balanced on its own by taking up mod slots, preventing other mods from being used? I find the benefits of single attribute levels insubstantial.

 

50 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I am fine with the mechanic as is, because we also have slowing buffs available to the player that counteracts speed and speed bursts.  Also this means you can't just simply bash and backpedal to your heart's delight.  It adds a bit of trouble if you are not paying attention and account for the potential stumble attack.

 

I don't play on the console so I won't comment on those - since it doesn't affect me either way, not fair to do so.

I think the stumbling forward when hit is a mechanic I can deal with, and it adds dynamics to fights. I brought it up due to its logical fallacy.
Edit: However, bashing a single walker zombie in the head and backpedaling is in the nature of all zombie killing, no? It only becomes dangerous when you get cornered or come across multiple zombies. Besides, I suggested they could fall forward instead of stumbling forward, where when falling forward they could swipe at you but would then be on the ground. That would keep the best of both worlds. Just because slowing buffs exist, it doesn't mean they need to be applicable to all scenarios.

Edited September 12 by Abnormal Zombie (see edit history)

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

I can confirm there is no submenu of the types you describe in the Skill menu.

There should be a menu somewhere.  It's where you see how many magazines of each type that you've read and which books you've read.  In the magazine list, each magazine should have a description that includes what drop chances are increased with it.  If that isn't part of the perk menu on console (PC has all 6 perk groups and then books and then magazines), then it will be somewhere else.  They wouldn't make it so you can't see what you've read.  Now, whether or not it shows you the description for the magazines, I don't know, but I don't see why that would be difference on console.

 

45 minutes ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

If you're suggesting the chances of finding magazines in cabinets or workbenches doesn't change with skill investment, I think you are wrong there. While I don't have a large data sample to recollect with workbenches, I can definitely say the amount of cooking magazines found in cabinets is ridiculously high with Master Chef at max tier. I find one in every 2-3 cabinets I search. What I am saying is I don't think it is always so easy to find the Forge Ahead magazine in workbenches when the appropriate skills aren't invested in. Also, there may be other items found in workbenches whose chances could increase from other skills, thus reducing Forge Ahead odds - but I don't know the drop tables so I can't say specifically.

I think they only meant that even without investing any points, you can still find these easily.  With no points (I almost never put points into the perk for improving forge ahead drops... at least not until late game, when I don't need the perk for that anyhow), I usually average 50-70% drop rate from the broken workstations.  I'm not sure if all workstations are the same drop rate because some seem lower, but I also have a low amount of data from them since they aren't real common compared to other containers.  But if I go into a trader for the first time, or again after loot resets, I am almost guaranteed to get 2 forge ahead magazines and sometimes get 3.  I rarely get 4 or less than 2.  Considering you can find workbenches in a LOT of the garages (commercial and residential) and construction is easy to see and usually has a cement mixer, it really isn't too hard to target those for forge ahead magazines if you want them.  Of course, adding points to the perk improves chances, but it really isn't necessary unless you're in a hurry.  And, just for reference, only forge ahead magazines drop from broken workstations as far as magazines go.  At least, if any other magazines can drop, I've never seen them.  So you either get a forge ahead if you're getting a magazine or you don't get it because you aren't getting a magazine due to RNG.

 

The same for cooking.  You can get so many of those without putting points into cooking that you don't have to worry about finding them if you don't want to put points into cooking.  It might take longer, but will still be fast as long as you're looting every cupboard you find when you're questing or scavenging.

 

This being said, the magazines can use more balancing because some (armor) increase way too quickly and others (vehicles) tend to be very slow if you aren't going out of your way to find them.  Even electrical and traps magazines tend to be slow if you're not going specifically to electronic stores or focusing on the utility trucks.  Of course, with perk points spent to increase those, they aren't as bad, but still feel slower than others with an equal investment of points.  I am fine with cooking being fast, but armor just seems to be way too fast because it increases with every point put into an attribute and so spikes quickly.  It may even be why others advance more slowly.

47 minutes ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

 Wouldn't it be balanced on its own by taking up mod slots, preventing other mods from being used? I find the benefits of single attribute levels insubstantial.

To a point.  As far as benefits, if you need 1 more attribute point for something and it requires you to go from 9 points to 10 points, requiring 3 levels and then one more level to get the perk you want, then that mod is VERY useful.  Of course, it's only useful in certain situations.  I won't use them unless I need them.  But when I do have a use for them, they are valuable.  I'm fine with some mods having limited use, but when needed are valuable.

[meganoth]

48 minutes ago, Abnormal Zombie said:

 I can definitely say the amount of cooking magazines found in cabinets is ridiculously high with Master Chef at max tier. I find one in every 2-3 cabinets I search.

 

It is ridiculously high even without master chef 😁.

 

All the loot tables are defined in readable xml files that can be read and changed for modding. If someone wants to know what will drop in kitchen cabinets he would look into the file loot.xml and find the following lines: 

 

<!-- *** Cupboard_Loot -->
<lootgroup name="groupCupboard01">
        <item group="groupFoodTrashUncommon" loot_prob_template="high"/>
        <item group="groupFoodCommon" loot_prob_template="veryLow"/>
        <item name="foodSkillMagazine" loot_prob_template="veryLow"/>
</lootgroup>

<lootgroup name="groupCupboard02">
        <item group="groupCookingTools" loot_prob_template="low"/>
        <item group="groupIngredientsCommon" loot_prob_template="high"/>
        <item name="foodSkillMagazine" loot_prob_template="low"/>
        <item group="seeds" loot_prob_template="veryLow"/>
</lootgroup>

<lootgroup name="groupCupboard" count="all">
        <item group="groupCupboard01" count="1"/>
        <item group="groupCupboard02" loot_prob_template="low" force_prob="true"/>
</lootgroup>

 

If you read it and make some guesses you should halfways understand what is done here. You can see that the perk masterchef is not mentioned here at all. The perk  is actually used elsewhere in loot.xml, when looting dumpsters.

 

At the start of loot.xml the different loot_prob_templates are defined:

 

        <lootprobtemplate name="veryLow">
                <loot level="1,999999" prob=".05"/>
        </lootprobtemplate>
        <lootprobtemplate name="low">
                <loot level="1,999999" prob=".20"/>
        </lootprobtemplate>
        <lootprobtemplate name="medLow">
                <loot level="1,999999" prob=".35"/>
        </lootprobtemplate>
        <lootprobtemplate name="med">
                <loot level="1,999999" prob=".5"/>
        </lootprobtemplate>
        <lootprobtemplate name="medHigh">
                <loot level="1,999999" prob=".63"/>
        </lootprobtemplate>
        <lootprobtemplate name="high">
                <loot level="1,999999" prob=".75"/>

 

Again, you can see that the loot probability templates are fixed values that do not depend on any perks.

 

And this is the loot table for the workbench:

 

<!-- *** Workbench_Loot -->
<lootgroup name="groupWorkbenchLoot01">
        <item name="resourceWood" count="10,30"/>
        <item name="resourceScrapBrass" count="10,100"/>
        <item name="resourceCloth" count="2,7"/>
        <item name="resourceScrapPolymers" count="5,20"/>
        <item name="resourceScrapIron" count="10,20"/>
</lootgroup>

<lootgroup name="groupWorkbenchLoot02">
        <item name="resourceMetalPipe" count="5,10"/>
        <item name="resourceNail" count="10,20"/>
        <item name="resourceMechanicalParts" count="1,5"/>
        <item name="resourceElectricParts" count="1,3"/>
        <item name="resourceDuctTape" count="1,4"/>
        <item name="resourceGlue" count="1,5"/>
        <item name="resourceOil" count="1,6"/>
        <item name="resourceSpring" count="1,4"/>
</lootgroup>

<lootgroup name="groupWorkbenchLoot03">
        <item name="resourceSewingKit"/>
        <item name="resourceRepairKit"/>
        <item name="resourceForgedIron" count="5,15"/>
        <item name="resourceForgedSteel" count="5,10"/>
</lootgroup>

<lootgroup name="groupWorkbenchLoot04">
        <item group="groupToolsTiered"/>
        <item group="groupRareToolsTiered"/>
        <item group="vehiclePartsTiered"/>
        <item name="workstationSkillMagazine" loot_prob_template="high"/>
</lootgroup>

<lootgroup name="groupWorkbenchLoot" count="all">
        <item group="groupWorkbenchLoot01" count="1"/>
        <item group="groupWorkbenchLoot02" loot_prob_template="medLow" force_prob="true"/>
        <item group="groupWorkbenchLoot03" loot_prob_template="low" force_prob="true"/>
        <item group="groupWorkbenchLoot04" loot_prob_template="low" force_prob="true"/>
</lootgroup>

 

Just saying, the loot tables and much more about the games rules can just be read by anyone (on PC). It is still possible to miss or misinterpret something, but reading the xml is much more exact than guessing probabilities while playing.

 

You are correct about it being 2 marbles added per perk point, see here in progression.xml:

 

<passive_effect name="LootProb" operation="perc_add" level="1,3" value="2,10" tags="foodCSM">
                                <requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="craftingFood" operation="LT" value="100"/>
                        </passive_effect>

 

In normal words it means to add 2, 6 or 10 marbles to the bag unless you already have 100 food magazines.

 

[AidenwithAnAxe]

On 9/10/2024 at 4:04 AM, Abnormal Zombie said:

Remove "(Game Preview)" from the game name in the console stores.

• WHY: People want to buy a game, not a preview. It is likely hundreds of sales have been lost due to this mislabelling. Frankly not professional.

By default, most stores (from past experiences with other games) list 'games still in developement' (or moving out of alphas) as "(Game Preview)"  It's a very common thing and not something worth gritting your teeth about or getting anxious about.  although my information is sourceless and based on my experience so I could be wrong

[Riamus]

It is also smart to have it listed that way.  People will be upset when buying a game that they think is finished when it's still in development.  This is likely also a legal issue.  Selling something that isn't marked as "preview" or something similar if it's not the finished game is probably illegal in certain countries.  I am not a lawyer and that is just a guess, though.  But regardless, players would be upset buying it and finding out it is still in development if that label is not on there.  So, it is professional.