Is distance from 0,0 tier difficulty generation possible?

[warmer]

What if we had one trader/strip mall at 0,0 and the further distance from 0,0 the higher the POI tier placed at world gen.

 

Give it a random factor for distance from within a given range. 

 

Within;

1km tier 1,2,3

2km tier 2,3,4

3km tier 2,3,4,5

4km tier 3,4,5

5km tier 4,5

Beyond 5km just tier 5

 

Biome should remain randomized to add more variation over the map.

 

I think this would be a very interesting way to play on a MP server. 

 

Does anyone know if this can be done, been suggested, or point to a mod where this is possible?

Edited March 26 by warmer (see edit history)

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, warmer said:

What if we had one trader/strip mall at 0,0 and the further distance from 0,0 the higher the POI tier placed at world gen.

 

Give it a random factor for distance from within a given range. 

 

Within;

1km tier 1,2,3

2km tier 2,3,4

3km tier 2,3,4,5

4km tier 3,4,5

5km tier 4,5

Beyond 5km just tier 5

 

Biome should remain randomized to add more variation over the map.

 

I think this would be a very interesting way to play on a MP server. 

 

Does anyone know if this can be done, been suggested, or point to a mod where this is possible?

Considering the VERY low number of higher tier POI, you'd end up with nothing but duplicate POI side by side on the outer areas of the map and towns wouldn't be possible to create with this set up without having a ton of empty spaces because tiles are not designed to allow any kind of POI to be placed on them... the POI needs to the right size and tier 5s have a limited number of tile spaces they can appear on.  Even tier 4 will be limited, though not be quite as much.  Not to mention, a town with all tier 5 POI will be extremely laggy for most players because you'll have dozens of skyscrapers all in one place.  I think trying to accomplish this would be pretty much impossible without having a LOT of new high tier POI and have enough of each type of POI that can fit on each tile to avoid blank spots on your towns to make it work.  In the end, it's just really not feasible.

 

The best I could offer would be to make wilderness POI get harder by distance as those have no tile limitations.  But even then, you'll still have a handful of tier 5 duplicating themselves everywhere around the edges, which most players wouldn't appreciate.

[warmer]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

Considering the VERY low number of higher tier POI, you'd end up with nothing but duplicate POI side by side on the outer areas of the map and towns wouldn't be possible to create with this set up without having a ton of empty spaces because tiles are not designed to allow any kind of POI to be placed on them... the POI needs to the right size and tier 5s have a limited number of tile spaces they can appear on.  Even tier 4 will be limited, though not be quite as much.  Not to mention, a town with all tier 5 POI will be extremely laggy for most players because you'll have dozens of skyscrapers all in one place.  

I can see what you are getting at with repitition. If it was solid city this would be a big issue. There are quite a few different tier 5 POIs, and the only location where it would be pure tier 5 is the extreme edge of a 10km map,

Distance from 0,0 so only the edge of a 10km might have it.

 

You could easily restrict individual placement or wilderness only beyond 5km from 0,0

 

Most people I know play on a 6 or 8km map, if you are running the map edge of a 10km map you are at end game and likely bored with anything under tier 5 anyway lol

 

 

Edited March 26 by warmer (see edit history)

[Riamus]

49 minutes ago, warmer said:

Most people I know play on a 6 or 8km map, if you are running the map edge of a 10km map you are at end game and likely bored with anything under tier 5 anyway lol

That all depends on where you spawn.  You can, of course, require spawning at the center of the map, but I have found that the way cities are placed can make the center not desirable.  Not to mention, there could easily be a lake there.  But that doesn't mean you couldn't tailor a map to work with that kind of design in mind.

 

Still, I don't believe you can make a fully tiled town that doesn't include tier 1 and tier 2 POI without having a lot of spaces.  I haven't really looked into that and so may be wrong, but it is unlikely that you could do it with pure vanilla POI and tiles.  Few tiles are designed for only high tier POI.  I'm not sure how many tier 3 or 4 POI are 25x25 and doubt there are any tier 5 that size.  Even 42x42 might have very limited numbers after you get past tier 3, so you're still looking at a lot of repetition and blank spots even at the 3-4km range.

 

You could probably make it work with a 6k map but it wouldn't really feel different except that you won't have tier 5 in the middle and no tier 1 on the outside edge.  Tier 4 would also not be in the very center.  But on such a small map, you might not even notice the difference because you're rarely right at 0,0 anyhow and are probably building a base out near the 1-2km mark, so you'll have most things around you on that size map.

 

An 8k map would make it more noticeable but you'll really start getting duplication and missing spaces in towns, and anything larger will get even worse.  I'm not saying you couldn't make an attempt to create such a map, but I think you'll quickly find it isn't going to work as well as you think.  But that's just a guess based on vanilla tiles and POI that are available.  If you were to use a lot of custom POI and there were enough high tier POI and you had custom tiles that would work for such a design, then it could possibly work.

Edited March 26 by Riamus (see edit history)

[warmer]

I think the easiest way to solve this is to restrict the size of the city. If you get it to less than 20, 150 size city blocks per city, then the repetition at each location would be drastically diminished. The goal here is to make people venture out and use vehicles. 

I have played up till day 45 and never bothered getting more than a bicycle because it just didn't make much sense to grind for a more capable vehicle. Now if I knew all the traders were 5km away from most quests at end game, then vehicles are MUCH more valuable.

This is part of the reasoning. The type of map would make players branch out from any main town as they progress through the game.

[theFlu]

24 minutes ago, warmer said:

Now if I knew all the traders were 5km away from most quests at end game, then vehicles are MUCH more valuable.

To that end, you'd prolly need to have all traders around 0,0 as well?

 

But yeh, you'd need a custom map generator to have the maps somewhat reasonable.

[Riamus]

I don't think it is all that important to try to force players to travel if they don't want to.  I never stay at one town in any game even if it has all tiers in it.  And I know others who also course to travel because they want variety.  But for those who prefer to stay on place, trying to force them to move with a mask design probably isn't something they are going to want to play on.  Just my opinion, of course.

 

There are also other options to get players traveling that are more feasible.  Darkness Falls does it with their quests requiring going to different places.  As long as those places aren't next to each other, you need to travel.  You can also do something where trader progression requires using all traders and then make traders 1-2km apart. There are various options that would work for that goal without trying to do something that the game design for tiles and prefabs isn't really designed for.

Edited March 26 by Riamus (see edit history)

[warmer]

54 minutes ago, Riamus said:

I don't think it is all that important to try to force players to travel if they don't want to.  I never stay at one town in any game even if it has all tiers in it.  And I know others who also course to travel because they want variety.  But for those who prefer to stay on place, trying to force them to move with a mask design probably isn't something they are going to want to play on.  Just my opinion, of course.

I wouldn't say this forces travel as much as it makes getting a better vehicle important. I just see zero reason to go beyond a bicycle with the way cities/POI difficulty is now. Once you find a big city there is very little reason to move on. Of course you don't have to travel. But I think having everything in 1km of your base just makes camping very easy. On an MP server If all the POI near you are lower level they'll get picked clean first and then you have to travel to find fresh ones. (I also play with loot respawn off because that is so counter to an apocalypse)

 

After 1000hrs of actual gameplay time, I get bored with how little I feel the need to explore the whole map. I want to make the whole map important vs. just the corner I choose to stay in. After a certain point traveling takes up so much time it's not worth doing unless there is a significantly juicy reward waiting for you. Tier 5 POI and quests are that reward in my opinion.

3 hours ago, theFlu said:

To that end, you'd prolly need to have all traders around 0,0 as well?

 

But yeh, you'd need a custom map generator to have the maps somewhat reasonable.

Yep, that's why I mentioned it in the OG post.

[theFlu]

9 minutes ago, warmer said:

Yep, that's why I mentioned it in the OG post.

Oh lol, first sentence ... those are supposed to be useless introductions

[Riamus]

Well, you can certainly try this method.  I don't see it working well but maybe it will.  😀

[WarMongerian]

An interesting concept.

 

If I might ask, how does everyone else enjoy their own adventures in 7dtd?