teragon maps

[spud42]

On 4/3/2023 at 10:35 PM, paulj_3 said:

@spud42 "this time you dont start at 0,0 ( i hope i got it right)  you should start in the forrest on the east side of the map."

um. . . .  no. . .  I actually had ten minutes of swimming practice, Spud! It seemed to be about half-way between the edge of the map and the burnt forest . . .  and deep underwater.   🐟

 

Your spawnpoints.xml reads

<spawnpoint rotation="0,0,0" position="4764,-1433,0"/>

 

It needs to be "east-west number",  altitude,   "north-south number", as the example below. 

<spawnpoint position="1961,32,1376" rotation="0,0,0"/>
 

SORRY PAUL. aparently its a unity thing to mix the co-ordinate system by making y = height!! 

i fixed it and reuploaded the file link.

[Riamus]

Yeah, it seems wrong to me also.  Usually, Z is height and X and Y are on the flat plane.

[spud42]

Well, i didn't check the map or do a fly over till just now..

those craters are not good... steep sides too tall and 2 of the craters seem to have exceeded the build limit . There is a sheere vertical drop about 10 to 15 blocks wideat the 255 build height limit and the missing bit has been created at 0.  so the bit it couldnt build at the top was built at bedrock!  this is a terrible map. i mean the map is good the craters are very bad..lol

 

off to create a few hundred maps over easter so i can figure out which parameter does what and how sensitive to change they are.

[spud42]

well i managed to bork teragon. not sure what i did but it kept crashing.

reinstalled and this is the first new map. no craters.  spawn isway north and slightly west in the forrest biome.

 

http://gofile.me/6ZBka/NrMU5cANo

 

[spud42]

ok back to tweaking craters..

this map has 3 craters one at 256,one at 768 and one at 1024.  heights have been changed and slopes as well. still not sure why 2 of them go to the water table but hey why not.  spawn should be in the forrest north west corner.

 

http://gofile.me/6ZBka/2fhXCYKyi

 

[spud42]

this is interesting. i changed the SW crater to 2048 and a few value changes.  The outer ring almost dissapeared.. central crater obvious...lol

There is also a strange extra "hole" that i have seen several times in crater creation..  

 

http://gofile.me/6ZBka/MDeeflLJj

 

 

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, spud42 said:

this is interesting. i changed the SW crater to 2048 and a few value changes.  The outer ring almost dissapeared.. central crater obvious...lol

There is also a strange extra "hole" that i have seen several times in crater creation..  

 

http://gofile.me/6ZBka/MDeeflLJj

 

 

Check out the random crater preset I posted a couple pages ago.  Take a look at the ranges I used for the randomization of the different parameters.  If you are within those ranges, your craters should generally look good.  As far as some having water, the depth of craters relates to the size, so some might go deep enough and some might not.  It also relates to where they are... On a mountain or hill, they won't be as low as on the plains.  The extra water area is probably caused by incorrect scaling for your size.  You can check what I put in the documentation about scaling to help avoid that.  It is also on the random crater preset.  I don't have it in front of me, but it is something like dividing the size by about 46.  Double check, though.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[spud42]

Thanks Riamus, 

I will look into it.  The range of usable values is not clear or intuitive. some make a vast difference by changing by 1 othere by,001 and some seem to not make much difference... some seem to be blocks like the crater size 512 to 2048, others dont seem to represent any relation to blocks. 

Anyway i'm having fun working out what works for me... 

[spud42]

@Riamus  could you post a stripped down ini file with this loop and the define custom tags?  i think i missed something..

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, spud42 said:

@Riamus  could you post a stripped down ini file with this loop and the define custom tags?  i think i missed something..

Not really.  But all you really need to look at is the Create Crater command.  Look at the values that include "random" and you'll have the min and max range that I used.

 

But in short, I used the following (copied from the Create Crater command):

Crater scaling: Crater Size / 4.65454545454545

Relative crater bottom height: -2.4 to -0.06

Relative inner radius: 2.5 to 7.5

Crater inner steepness: 0.2 to 0.4

Relative transition radius: 0.5 to 0.9

Erosion iterations: 750000 to 2500000

 

The rest I left at default.

 

In general, when you are making changes to values, you are usually safe if you are within a range of the original value / 2 to the original value * 2.  Beyond that, it may work or you may have problems.  This is a good rule of thumb for any commands.  You can always adjust beyond that range to see what you get, of course.

 

There are screenshots in the documentation for each of these parameters and I generally did the screenshots using the original value, original value / 2, and original value * 2.  So you can get an idea what to expect by looking at those.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[spud42]

Ok guys, a bit of fun with this first one....  1 big generated crater in the middle

 

 

http://gofile.me/6ZBka/NIg5YDf0D

 

now back to using custom height maps.... had enough of trying to get the craters to look good....

 

 

http://gofile.me/6ZBka/72ix5UDkf

 

Thid last one is tweaked a bit in GIMP and rotated 180 degrees

 

 

 

http://gofile.me/6ZBka/dhoOjiSHE

 

gonna give Teragon a rest for a bit. got a few worlds worthy of playing for a few weeks in game....

 

EDIT: Kudos to who guesses the height map... lol

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by spud42 (see edit history)

[Elegon]

Can someone tell me how i can remove all those Boats spawning in my Terragon Generated World? Its a bit...much.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Elegon (see edit history)

[spud42]

disable teragon poi's. 

in version 0.42.0  go to the advanced tab and untick "use teragon poi's "

 

havent tried this are the bridges considered a poi?

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by spud42 (see edit history)

[Riamus]

18 hours ago, Elegon said:

Can someone tell me how i can remove all those Boats spawning in my Terragon Generated World? Its a bit...much.

 

 

You have two options.

 

1) In the Read POI Property List command on the Expert tab, look for the line:

ship_poi;poi_distance:49;biome:burnt,desert,forest,snow,wasteland;region:ocean  ((This may look a little different, but starts with "ship_poi"))

 

At the end of that line, add:  ;max_spawn:2

Repeat for all ocean POI that you have spawning there.

*If max_spawn is already there, just change the number to 2.

**You can use a number other than 2. This is how many can be on the map.

***If you are using the Import POI Property List for some of those ocean POI, you will want to open the file you're importing and add ;max_spawn:2 to those lines as well.

 

2) In the Create Region POIs command on the Expert tab, look at the section for Spawn Limit Per Region.  Change the value for "ocean" to 2.

*You can use a number other than 2. This is how many can be on the map.

 

 

Note that the second is going to be easier since you have multiple POI in the ocean and likely are using both Read and Import POI Property List commands, but you can't set different values for each POI with the second method and are only setting the max for all ocean spawns.

 

 

Also, notice that your rivers are a bit deep.  You can fix that by increasing the elevation of the rivers to be around the height of your Create Flat Terrain Map command's elevation but that is up to you.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[spud42]

I have not swum out to the ships yet but....

 

 

They look tempting...lol

[Riamus]

9 hours ago, spud42 said:

I have not swum out to the ships yet but....

 

 

They look tempting...lol

Yeah, if you have a lot of water on the edge of your map, those can be a long ways away.  I'm certainly not swimming that far. 

[spud42]

will have to play till i get a gyro then...lol  fly out and see if there is somewhere to land...

 im using the second map of my previous map post. looks like there is a ship pretty close in on the SW side of the lake.

 

no one guessed the height map area yet? taken with tangrams height map....

[Riamus]

On 4/11/2023 at 10:16 AM, spud42 said:

will have to play till i get a gyro then...lol  fly out and see if there is somewhere to land...

 im using the second map of my previous map post. looks like there is a ship pretty close in on the SW side of the lake.

 

no one guessed the height map area yet? taken with tangrams height map....

You can probably manage to land (not cleanly) on the ship, but taking off would be a challenge unless you plan to break out a "runway" on top of the ship.

[spud42]

just tried out maps with the compo pack. 

 

Must say that im 50/50 on this.   While i enjoy the new and varied POI's what i dont enjoy is POI's not logically placed in the world.

a huge Mall in the middle of nowhere with nothing near it for hundreds of blocks. it doesnt make sense.  Now TFP also had and probably still do have POI's that make no logical sense either.  For example the elevated highway remnants... no where near any roads all turned 90 degrees to each other IF there was more than one in sight. but even 1 on its own without supporting infrastructure just irks me.

 

Tried several maps , even though wilderness spawn limit was set to 300 on the advanced tab i got well over 300 pois. I had to change total spawn limit in create region pois to cut the number down. This was not ideal and when i tried a normal map it does limit the normal town poi size too. 

 

I think i will leave it to others to make maps with the compo pack for now.  I am not going to go through all the POI's and change the biomes in which they can spawn! far too many of them.

[paulj_3]

        @spud42    I reckon there are lots of oddball combinations of varying structures that exist in every map we make, Spud; the elevated highways are just one example, the land-locked ships in the middle of a city are another; elevated section of railroads are yet another, but I have no idea how a developer might go about creating a map or maps which would make sense for everyone, based on what exists in the game as it is now. As well - in reality most maps are too small to represent more than one biome.  All CP does is to add some much-needed variation to make your location 'new and interesting' - and it's appreciated. ( @stallionsden )  . . .    Teragon, particularly with CP,  has certainly provided a terrific sandbox with many possibilities to create different worlds, but Teragon is it's own worst enemy because of it's complexity, plus the Unity/TFP functionality and limitations; anyone who ever used and played with the Far Cry 3/4/5 map creation/editing systems will cringe, when faced with the issues and complexities we face in this system.  

        Anyway - on a more positive note:- Recently I tried one of the only maps that has been really 'different' - it was the "New York II" map, published by DirKiller a few pages back in this thread ->  https://7daystodiemods.com/map-new-york-undead-ii/
It has very little that might not be in an apocalyptic r/w New York, and (for me, who often doesn't go beyond horde night 3) it was/is quite refreshing to play, (started on the 4th, and still playing daily) - instinctive, with a logical progression, and with lots of unusual places to find or exploit.  Great map!

Edited April 16, 2023 by paulj_3 (see edit history)

[Riamus]

8 hours ago, spud42 said:

just tried out maps with the compo pack. 

 

Must say that im 50/50 on this.   While i enjoy the new and varied POI's what i dont enjoy is POI's not logically placed in the world.

a huge Mall in the middle of nowhere with nothing near it for hundreds of blocks. it doesnt make sense.  Now TFP also had and probably still do have POI's that make no logical sense either.  For example the elevated highway remnants... no where near any roads all turned 90 degrees to each other IF there was more than one in sight. but even 1 on its own without supporting infrastructure just irks me.

 

Tried several maps , even though wilderness spawn limit was set to 300 on the advanced tab i got well over 300 pois. I had to change total spawn limit in create region pois to cut the number down. This was not ideal and when i tried a normal map it does limit the normal town poi size too. 

 

I think i will leave it to others to make maps with the compo pack for now.  I am not going to go through all the POI's and change the biomes in which they can spawn! far too many of them.

I haven't used CP, so I don't know how they have their POI set up.  Sometimes people mark POI as wilderness even though they really don't belong in the wilderness, like your mall example.  It's easy enough to fix that in Teragon, but if you have a lot of them that are like that, you may not want to bother with it.  You can remove the POI Property List for CP and then you'll only get CP POIs in towns, which might be closer to what you like.  But there will probably be many POI that are wilderness-only that you will never see that way.

 

As far as spawn limit, "total spawn limit" is the setting you should be changing for spawns.  If you change the value on the Basic tab, you are changing the Total Spawn Limit on the Create Region POIs command... as long as you are not using multiple Create Region POIs commands.  Everything on the Basic and Advanced tabs is just a mirror to the Expert tab and are not separate settings.  You may unknowingly be setting 300 in the wrong field.  I've done that once myself.

 

If you are getting more POI than you think you have it set for and you're sure you have the 300 in the correct field on the Basic tab, then that should not happen.  The first thing I'd ask is that you run a new map generation with those settings (300 as you said and default values in the spawn limits in Create Region POIs).  Then, switch to the console tab before the Create Region POIs command starts and watch what appears.  At the end of the list of POIs being placed, you should see a total POI count listed.  See if that count really is more than 300.  It may be that it just feels like a lot more considering RWG doesn't place that many POI even when set to Many... at least, I don't think it goes that high.  I think Many on an 8k map might be somewhere around 100-150, though I've never counted to find out.

 

If the count is greater than 300, please post your preset so we can test it out and see if there is a bug in Teragon that needs to be fixed.  I've never seen the number go over my spawn limit, but that doesn't mean there still isn't a bug that might occur only in certain situations.

3 hours ago, paulj_3 said:

        Anyway - on a more positive note:- Recently I tried one of the only maps that has been really 'different' - it was the "New York II" map, published by DirKiller a few pages back in this thread ->  https://7daystodiemods.com/map-new-york-undead-ii/
It has very little that might not be in an apocalyptic r/w New York, and (for me, who often doesn't go beyond horde night 3) it was/is quite refreshing to play, (started on the 4th, and still playing daily) - instinctive, with a logical progression, and with lots of unusual places to find or exploit.  Great map!

Yeah, custom maps are likely to be better than random maps when you look at POI placement.  There is only so much you can do when trying to mix randomization and non-randomization.  Tiles and districts help significantly, but they can only do so much.  When you make a custom map, even if you were to start out with a randomized map, you are able to change POI placements that you don't want or like and edit other things to look they way you want.

 

Custom maps are great and many people prefer them for those reasons.  For me, I like random maps, even if they might occasionally have POI placed in odd locations.  That doesn't really bother me.

[spud42]

im wondering if there is going to be a problem with teragon and the new a21.... new poi's and tiles etc

 

[Riamus]

9 minutes ago, spud42 said:

im wondering if there is going to be a problem with teragon and the new a21.... new poi's and tiles etc

Jugginator said A20 maps will not work in A21, so there is that.  He couldn't say if a map made in Teragon after installing A21 would work.  I am guessing it will, but we won't know until we try.  Even if it does work if you make a map after installing A21, keep in mind that any of the new A21 RWG features aren't going to be in Teragon until it is updated to include them - traders in districts and wilderness, wilderness tiles, etc.

[paulj_3]

Well I guess it's to be expected: each time the game has been updated, it has been improved in countless ways, and each time - our more creative players have responded by creating and updating their mods. We shall lose some - like Nitrogen, which was replaced by KingGen: when that one was made redundant - it was replaced by Teragon. It's just a fact of life. There are hundreds of 'lesser' mods that have gone the way of the DoDo, so let's just hope that friend Pille can find the stamina to move it into A21. It is the very best mapping tool this game has seen.

Edited April 29, 2023 by paulj_3 (see edit history)

[Riamus]

4 hours ago, paulj_3 said:

Well I guess it's to be expected: each time the game has been updated, it has been improved in countless ways, and each time - our more creative players have responded by creating and updating their mods. We shall lose some - like Nitrogen, which was replaced by KingGen: when that one was made redundant - it was replaced by Teragon. It's just a fact of life. There are hundreds of 'lesser' mods that have gone the way of the DoDo, so let's just hope that friend Pille can find the stamina to move it into A21. It is the very best mapping tool this game has seen.

He is definitely planning to do so. 😁