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crimson_binome

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Here is my latest 10K map:

 

10K

Erosion at 80 height
Shallow rivers
Somewhat evenly distributed towns
No old west towns
Fewer river branches (2)
More Gun Store, Schools and the like with the large blue strip tiles
2 Bobs Boars / Carls's Corn
Boatloads of Skyscrapers and Tier 4 and Tier 5 POIs (although you would need a very fast PC to get even 60FPS in the towns.

 

kuuOyY2.jpg

 

mKCQbCT.jpg

 

LcFP14q.png

 

And an 8K

 

Erosion at 80 height
Shallow rivers
Somewhat evenly distributed towns
No old west towns
Fewer river branches (2)
A few Gun Stores, A Schools and the like with the large blue strip tiles
1 Bobs Boars / Carls's Corn
Boatloads of Skyscrapers and Tier 4 and Tier 5 POIs (although you would need a very fast PC to get even 60FPS in the towns.

 

brsEhbK.jpg

 

z1at2MD.jpg

 

uF8q22X.png

 

I can upload these and the .ini files if anyone is interested.

 

I have yet to edit the spawnpoints.xml. I spawned on the 8K in town in a backyard of a house.

Edited by bobrpggamer (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, paulj_3 said:

Sure thing, Bob: I'm still enjoying your earlier two, but cannot create anything approaching the perfection of your maps. Thank you.
pj

Thank you. I will add these to onedrive with the Ini files. They are uploaded the link is: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aql8M7KJmixdaDckKanWH8Agyh8?e=Hb6fSS

 

I have time for trial and error, that's my thing. I have spent 8 or more hours a day fooling around with teragon. Like most people, you more than likely have a life, and do no have the time to spare with trial and error like I have.

 

If there is a biome mix you prefer let me know and I will add it to a map and upload it to you.

 

Make sure you load my presets so you can edit them to your liking. Like changing biome settings or whatever. The towns are random no matter what the seed you use, so If you get a different city setup than what you want, just stop at the pause after making the cities and try again. I have the pause right before POI placement so you can continue or stop before doing POIs. I also have Update display after roadmaking and then pause the sideroad making to make sure the roads look right. You'll see what I mean if you load my presets.

 

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On 2/19/2023 at 11:04 AM, Riamus said:

Just to note, Pille knows about the issue with bridges being included even when disabled.  It will be fixed when he has a chance to do so.

With the new update or release, do you think that 12K maps will be more stable.

 

Also seeing how you know Pille can you suggest a couple of things?

 

I would love to see:

 

1. Bridges section in expert with setting that can control the length of the bridges. Like max 20 to just build on rivers and not lakes and not multiple spawns right next to each other.

2. Biome Min/Max setting. Like setting desert to 20 to 25, and setting wasteland 25 to 30 and forest 30 to 80 and snow 80 to 256.

 

I am not going to do discord or I would ask myself.

 

One last thing, tell him to get a PayPal account so I can donate to him. His buy me a coffee uses credit cards and I am not giving that out to anyone.

Edited by bobrpggamer (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, bobrpggamer said:

With the new update or release, do you think that 12K maps will be more stable.

 

Also seeing how you know Pille can you suggest a couple of things?

 

I would love to see:

 

1. Bridges section in expert with setting that can control the length of the bridges. Like max 20 to just build on rivers and not lakes and not multiple spawns right next to each other.

2. Biome Min/Max setting. Like setting desert to 20 to 25, and setting wasteland 25 to 30 and forest 30 to 80 and snow 80 to 256.

 

I am not going to do discord or I would ask myself.

 

One last thing, tell him to get a PayPal account so I can donate to him. His buy me a coffee uses credit cards and I am not giving that out to anyone.

I haven't heard too many people with trouble on 12k maps.  It's the maps larger than that that are the difficulty.  If you're crashing on towns, there is likely a reason other than just map size.  If you are making towns that cover most of a 12k map, this is probably the cause of the crashes.  From past tests others have done, there appears to be an issue with too many tiles on a map.  As far as when larger maps (including 12k) are more stable, it depends on what isn't stable.  One of the biggest issues in larger maps are roads and those aren't going to be in the next release, but are on the radar.  The next release is more stable is some cases due to the improvements to POI, but that's not a common crash problem.

 

Bridges are something that will be worked on and improved beyond just fixing the bugs with them.  I think Pille wants to worry about fixing them before thinking about any changes to them.  But lengths are something that have been talked about.

 

Biome heights are already there.  The min value is just the max value of the lower setting. There can't be overlap or gaps, so there is no need for a min value.  If you set Desert max to 25, Wasteland to 30, Forest to 80, and Snow to 256, you get the same thing as your example.  The only difference is your example has nothing from under 20, which isn't valid.

Edited by Riamus (see edit history)
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35 minutes ago, Riamus said:

I haven't heard too many people with trouble on 12k maps.  It's the maps larger than that that are the difficulty.  As far as when larger maps (including 12k) are more stable, it depends on what isn't stable.  One of the biggest issues in larger maps are roads and those aren't going to be in the next release, but are on the radar.  The next release is more stable is some cases due to the improvements to POI, but that's not a common crash problem.

 

Bridges are something that will be worked on and improved beyond just fixing the bugs with them.  I think Pille wants to worry about fixing them before thinking about any changes to them.  But lengths are something that have been talked about.

 

Biome heights are already there.  The min value is just the max value of the lower setting. There can't be overlap or gaps, so there is no need for a min value.  If you set Desert max to 25, Wasteland to 30, Forest to 80, and Snow to 256, you get the same thing as your example.  The only difference is your example has nothing from under 20, which isn't valid.

I kind of see the biome thing. Thank you for explaining this to me.

 

I kind of want a plateau for a wasteland section with an edited heightmap. Like a somewhat flat area that I want the wasteland to be in and finding the exact grayscale value for 30-35 in the heightmap to edit in Photoshop.

 

Well I just thought of how easy it would be. just make a 30-35 flat heightmap in teragon, take it into Photoshop and make note of the grayscale value, Uh-Duh.

 

Say not using any of the 3 heightmap sections and just adding a 30 to create heightmap and keep all noise filters off as well. Do the same for 35.

 

It would be kind of cool to have a crater that goes down to 10 and put the wasteland there but it would mean not using water to do so. To bad I cannot mask off an area that has no water, but I know this is not possible. To keep water out I could set the sea level at 1 or 0 and the flat water map the same, I could try it I guess to see if it would work.

 

It would be something I would want to use a 12K map for.

Edited by bobrpggamer (see edit history)
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in gimp or photoshop make the RGB values 30 and you will get a 30 grey. you can flood fill the eniire map at 30 then save it as a base for future maps. then just set colours to 35RGB and paint on with a brush with feathered  and lowered opacity. this way you can paint a height map any way you want.

 

dont forget to save as 16 bit greyscale though..lol

 

Edited by spud42 (see edit history)
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12 hours ago, bobrpggamer said:

I kind of see the biome thing. Thank you for explaining this to me.

 

I kind of want a plateau for a wasteland section with an edited heightmap. Like a somewhat flat area that I want the wasteland to be in and finding the exact grayscale value for 30-35 in the heightmap to edit in Photoshop.

 

Well I just thought of how easy it would be. just make a 30-35 flat heightmap in teragon, take it into Photoshop and make note of the grayscale value, Uh-Duh.

 

Say not using any of the 3 heightmap sections and just adding a 30 to create heightmap and keep all noise filters off as well. Do the same for 35.

 

It would be kind of cool to have a crater that goes down to 10 and put the wasteland there but it would mean not using water to do so. To bad I cannot mask off an area that has no water, but I know this is not possible. To keep water out I could set the sea level at 1 or 0 and the flat water map the same, I could try it I guess to see if it would work.

 

It would be something I would want to use a 12K map for.

Water is placed and then isn't updated.  This means that if you place water (using the Create Flat Water Map command) and then make a crater, the crater will not be filled with water.  That will give you what you want.  You can use Fill Biome command to place a specific biome in an area.  It fills in from the point you select up to a height of whatever value you use for offset.  So if you put it in the crater and only want it on the bottom, place an offset of 1 and point it to the bottom of the flat crater and that will be wasteland.  This, of course, has to be done after the normal biomes are placed.

 

*Ignore Set Sea Level.  It currently does not appear to do anything.

 

*Water isn't like real life.  You don't have a water table, where if you dig down far enough, you'll have water.  Instead, it only fills in appropriate areas based on height.  Afterwards, if you don't use the command again, any changes to lower the map (making lakes, craters, rivers) will not get filled in.

Edited by Riamus (see edit history)
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20 hours ago, spud42 said:

in gimp or photoshop make the RGB values 30 and you will get a 30 grey. you can flood fill the eniire map at 30 then save it as a base for future maps. then just set colours to 35RGB and paint on with a brush with feathered  and lowered opacity. this way you can paint a height map any way you want.

 

dont forget to save as 16 bit greyscale though..lol

 

Thank you. I did not think that the scale is the same as a standard 256 shade grayscale bitmap. This makes things way easier.

 

Now that I think of it, 256 grayscale is 8 bit not 16 bit. I wonder if that would make a difference.

 

I also just thought that using contours of 5 levels up and down as selections with the polygon or lasso tool and then using gradients to blend the contours may be the best way to create a heightmap. Although that is harder to do than it sounds and I am not terribly great with Photoshop myself.

14 hours ago, Riamus said:

Water is placed and then isn't updated.  This means that if you place water (using the Create Flat Water Map command) and then make a crater, the crater will not be filled with water.  That will give you what you want.  You can use Fill Biome command to place a specific biome in an area.  It fills in from the point you select up to a height of whatever value you use for offset.  So if you put it in the crater and only want it on the bottom, place an offset of 1 and point it to the bottom of the flat crater and that will be wasteland.  This, of course, has to be done after the normal biomes are placed.

 

*Ignore Set Sea Level.  It currently does not appear to do anything.

 

*Water isn't like real life.  You don't have a water table, where if you dig down far enough, you'll have water.  Instead, it only fills in appropriate areas based on height.  Afterwards, if you don't use the command again, any changes to lower the map (making lakes, craters, rivers) will not get filled in.

Thank you, I will try this on a 12K map someday. I found out that my troubles on 12K are the towns and POIs. If I add to many towns (but still spread way out) I get a CTD, If I add less but larger cities I get CTD, If I get by with a preview and do not add POIs, the message for building roads does not display and CTD.

 

For now I am back in game adding more things to my massive base, like a rooftop gyrocopter runway and solar and battery banks for lighting. I just went out and finished my level 5 quests yesterday, thing is, I only did a boatload of level 4 quests because I did not want to do any skyscrapers yet, but somehow got a level 5 completion anyway, weird.

 

Thanks for the help though guys.

Edited by bobrpggamer (see edit history)
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ok colours in GIMP can either be 0-100 OR 0-255 . i think you can do the same in photoshop. GIMP is free and runs on every operating system.

 

you have 2 overlapping squares that are the foreground and background colours. if you click on one you can set the RGB values and other things.

In GIMP ther are 2 boxes at the top in the middle marked 0-100 and 0-255 pick one. Then you can either move sliders to adjust colour or type in the rRGB value direct. if you make all 3 the same you get grey IE black at 0,0,0, to white at 255,255,255.

 

yes you can random lassoo areas and fill them with a colour BUT you will need to do something to blur the edges. if you have an area at say 40 grey then an area of say 50 grey you will have a vertical wall of 10 blocks on your map.  Gimp has a smudge tool that looks like a finger pointing down. you can use it to blend the different heights.

 

give me an idea of what you want a quick sketch of area size height etc and map size and i will see what i can do to make a height map.

 

i was trying to learn how to use plasma filters etc to generate a map like this but i gave up . but the random lassoo of a random drawn area set to a colour then blended sounds easy , well easier.. 

 

Edit : quick and probably nasty height map. lasso area fil, rince repeat with different height colours. final blur with a gausian filter.

10K map proof of concept.   http://gofile.me/6ZBka/TAaSbloyC

 

Edited by spud42 (see edit history)
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Good Morning: Hi Bob.

Quote   "I  found out that my troubles on 12K are the towns and POIs. If I add to many towns (but still spread way out) I get a CTD, If I add less but larger cities I get CTD, If I get by with a preview and do not add POIs, the message for building roads does not display and CTD."  

I had exactly  your issue when creating "my own" 10k map, using yours for a base.  (The Event Viewer indicts the Qt5Core.dll.) I first thought it was caused by "Towns too big", but changing the numbers didn't do anything to stop the crashes: Then I considered perhaps "too many "Create Region POI's", as there were more than a dozen in your ini command list, and it seemed to happen at this point in the work flow. I reduced the numbers of "Create Region POI" commands, as I repeated the (22 times!!) maps, but each one still stopped/crashed, and then I noticed that it stopped working after (or during) the Update Preview which comes after the "Create Towns" command. You can't see much, because it happens in the background and the lower frame of the command window hides all but the first of the "Create Region POI" commands (whatever's coming next) (or is actually being worked on), but anyway - per the log output, it had gone way past that point, and was "erroring" at the next "Update Preview" - after the "Create Independent Player Spawn" - so, what I did was to put in an Interrupt at the "Update Preview" after that "Create Independent Player Spawn" command, and then hit "Skip" as it popped up. No error.  The log is show here at the actual point in the log which the crash occurred. I've omitted the balance of the log.

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Two things for everyone--

 

1) Teragon's new version (v0.39.0) was released yesterday.  With the new version, you do NOT need multiple Create Region POI commands for any reason other than if you're trying to populate specific regions separately, and then you only need a maximum of one command per region type.  One command can completely fill a map with POI if you have the max POI high enough.  Putting multiple commands will slow your generation down for no benefit.

 

2) There is a bug that was found in Update Preview if you have POI Names enabled and have too many POI (this includes both towns and wilderness/region).  Disable the names if you plan to have many POI and/or very large or many towns.  This should greatly help making larger maps without crashing.

Edited by Riamus (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, spud42 said:

ok colours in GIMP can either be 0-100 OR 0-255 . i think you can do the same in photoshop. GIMP is free and runs on every operating system.

 

you have 2 overlapping squares that are the foreground and background colours. if you click on one you can set the RGB values and other things.

In GIMP ther are 2 boxes at the top in the middle marked 0-100 and 0-255 pick one. Then you can either move sliders to adjust colour or type in the rRGB value direct. if you make all 3 the same you get grey IE black at 0,0,0, to white at 255,255,255.

 

yes you can random lassoo areas and fill them with a colour BUT you will need to do something to blur the edges. if you have an area at say 40 grey then an area of say 50 grey you will have a vertical wall of 10 blocks on your map.  Gimp has a smudge tool that looks like a finger pointing down. you can use it to blend the different heights.

 

give me an idea of what you want a quick sketch of area size height etc and map size and i will see what i can do to make a height map.

 

i was trying to learn how to use plasma filters etc to generate a map like this but i gave up . but the random lassoo of a random drawn area set to a colour then blended sounds easy , well easier.. 

 

Edit : quick and probably nasty height map. lasso area fil, rince repeat with different height colours. final blur with a gausian filter.

10K map proof of concept.   http://gofile.me/6ZBka/TAaSbloyC

 

What I meant was that an 8bit grayscale is 0-255 (256) and a 16bit grayscale has 65,536 shades of gray. Like old 16bit color games with 65,536 colors back in the day before 24 bit color 16.7 million games we have had now for a while.

 

I was thinking a radial gradient between the lasso selections to blend them and then blurring the edges.

 

I wish I could use the pen tool, so I can use the Bezier handles to make perfect rounded lines but I never can figure out how to turn the work path of the pen tool into anything other than to stroke the path with a brush or pencil or other tool. I would like to change a path to a shape but this never seems to work either.

 

So I figure you could use the polygon select tool to create the contour levels with a feather of some odd pixels. But unfortunately the lasso selection tool is best at this, but I suck at painting lines of any kind in Photoshop with the mouse - if only I had a Wacom tablet and stylus.

 

I have another idea that is more to my liking but is still not easy to pull off for so many reasons I cannot even mention.

 

Spoiler

 

 

You would have to make a 1024 x 10 x 100 or x whatever (for 10k) plane and give it 1,000 x 1,000 segments (that's a plane with 1,000,000 polygons), then adding a grey material, probably 0 specular (I guess), I also guess a value of 128 and then edit the geometry with the paint deform tool. That's the easy part.

 

The hard part is making the top viewport as a "create camera from view", scale the view of the camera to be exactly square. Make an area light the exact size of the plane and move it up. then render from top down, moving the area light up and down to get it right. Then the final render as 16bit grayscale .png. Then take it into photoshop and adding levels to it to get the right height for each part of the heightmap. In other words at one point you want a 30 to 40 level of grey at one part of the bitmap, you have to adjust the levels to get it just right.

 

Way to complicated I know.

 

Way more complicated but probably the most perfect way to use contours for terrain is by using nurbs in 3DS Max, example:

 

GUID-05519C27-96CF-46CE-9415-A693E44B5FC

 

Again you have to render straight down from the top of the mesh with a square camera and if the lighting is off, it will not work right.

 

The only reason I mention this is because I am way better with 3D software than with Photoshop.

 

If you have not figured it out yet, I am a hopeless perfectionist and it kind of sucks at times. One line not perfect or one single imperfection at all and I have to start over. OCD sucks.

 

I finally downloaded your PNG, it took a while and I think you have the right idea with the contour type thing.

7 hours ago, paulj_3 said:

Good Morning: Hi Bob.

Quote   "I  found out that my troubles on 12K are the towns and POIs. If I add to many towns (but still spread way out) I get a CTD, If I add less but larger cities I get CTD, If I get by with a preview and do not add POIs, the message for building roads does not display and CTD."  

I had exactly  your issue when creating "my own" 10k map, using yours for a base.  (The Event Viewer indicts the Qt5Core.dll.) I first thought it was caused by "Towns too big", but changing the numbers didn't do anything to stop the crashes: Then I considered perhaps "too many "Create Region POI's", as there were more than a dozen in your ini command list, and it seemed to happen at this point in the work flow. I reduced the numbers of "Create Region POI" commands, as I repeated the (22 times!!) maps, but each one still stopped/crashed, and then I noticed that it stopped working after (or during) the Update Preview which comes after the "Create Towns" command. You can't see much, because it happens in the background and the lower frame of the command window hides all but the first of the "Create Region POI" commands (whatever's coming next) (or is actually being worked on), but anyway - per the log output, it had gone way past that point, and was "erroring" at the next "Update Preview" - after the "Create Independent Player Spawn" - so, what I did was to put in an Interrupt at the "Update Preview" after that "Create Independent Player Spawn" command, and then hit "Skip" as it popped up. No error.  The log is show here at the actual point in the log which the crash occurred. I've omitted the balance of the log.

You can just remove all the update previews I have by selecting them and clicking the remove arrow directly underneath the command queue. You do not need any of them at all, but to see if the towns are where you want them, you at least need the one update preview after generate towns (the default update preview is after POIs are placed - I have it before POIs are placed because I had so many POI commands).

 

One thing I do when I get confused is to start teragon load the default ini that came with teragon and start another instance of teragon load your custom ini and set the windows side by side and get an idea of what command is supposed to come after what and what you need and do not need in the queue. Do this after you customize the queue so much it gets confusing.

 

I am glad you got it worked out though. I had interrupts at several point in the queue to see if one parts looks OK before going on to another process.

5 hours ago, Riamus said:

Two things for everyone--

 

1) Teragon's new version (v0.39.0) was released yesterday.  With the new version, you do NOT need multiple Create Region POI commands for any reason other than if you're trying to populate specific regions separately, and then you only need a maximum of one command per region type.  One command can completely fill a map with POI if you have the max POI high enough.  Putting multiple commands will slow your generation down for no benefit.

 

2) There is a bug that was found in Update Preview if you have POI Names enabled and have too many POI (this includes both towns and wilderness/region).  Disable the names if you plan to have many POI and/or very large or many towns.  This should greatly help making larger maps without crashing.

Thank you for the update.

 

But I am too busy mining and wrenching cars to get resources for my base. That's what I love about the game, so many things to do.

 

As you can all tell, I love computer graphics, so I may get carried away with my posts, but for the most part just ignore my rants.

Edited by bobrpggamer (see edit history)
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Good Morning! Hi Bob!  No - don't stop with the rants! It helps other, lesser mortals (like me!) to understand more about the issues that we might - or do - face as we explore Teragon each day. I am just glad we have this particular forum thread, (Kudo's to Crimson_binome for starting it.) as you, Spud, Geoff, ZZTong, BT202, and Shvonder, have all put in information which has spurred a TON of development advice and information to come pouring back through the mighty Riamus hotline to the god Pille! It is hugely helpful to us, and likely serves to inspire TFP's development process, too.
Like you, "I am too busy mining and wrenching cars to get resources for my base. That's what I love about the game". Yup - I loved the limited map-making technology that this game has brought, as it (mostly) allowed 'mere mortals" to get involved in the creation of one's own, personal game. Modding and creating maps was one of the greatest part of playing Far Cry 3 and 4, too - particularly 4, as the game had matured and had a superb editor with the ability to push the newly-created map up to Ubisoft's very comprehensive Player Maps website. For me, 7DTD goes a long way toward equaling the "enjoyment longevity" of the Far Cry (4) game, and now Pille's Teragon has ramped up the ante to a whole new level! I'm 78 now, and the urge to create and learn is still very present, and is very much satisfied by the continuous development activity which this game provides, along with the interactions with you, Riamus, and all of the other guys participating here. Thanks!

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@bobrpggamer    

I think you are confusing 8 bit and 16 grey scale images with the 0-255 or 0-100 of the colourRGB. the colour doesnt have anything to do with bit depth its just an arbitrary scale for each of the primary colours. 0 being black and 255 being 100% of R or G or B. if you set the scale to 0-100 then you can think of it as 0 to 100% of R or G or B.  the graphic you make is then exported as a 16bit greyscale png image. i tried to upload an image of that quick and very dirty height map but for some reason the forum kept rejecting it.  ok had to resize it in paint 50% 3 times now it loads if more time is taken a quite detailed map could be produced.

Test 1 10K  greyscale map.jpg

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@Bobrpggamer:

 

Thank you so much for your Maps. I tryd to build one but my Laptop was on 3% to build the small roads after 15 hours, so I canceled it. I have only one Question: Should there be Compo Pack Poi´s? Because I did not get any.

 

Greetings from Hamburg/Germany.

Tim.

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1 hour ago, Tim.Z said:

@Bobrpggamer:

 

Thank you so much for your Maps. I tryd to build one but my Laptop was on 3% to build the small roads after 15 hours, so I canceled it. I have only one Question: Should there be Compo Pack Poi´s? Because I did not get any.

 

Greetings from Hamburg/Germany.

Tim.

If you put a ton of POI and have a beer l large map, side roads are going to take forever. No way around that right now.  You'll either want fewer POI (you really don't need a thousand, for example) or turn off side roads, which really aren't needed if you have that many POI.

 

Pille is planning on improving road generation, but for now, I wouldn't add side roads if you have more than maybe 500 POI, and even then it is going to take quite a while. 

 

From my own tests and what others have said, I think most people will generate roads to about 100-150 POI per hour.  You can get an idea of your speed by letting side roads run for an hour and taking the percent you are at and multiplying it by the total POI to get an idea of the number per hour.  Then you can determine how many hours you are willing to let it run so you know how many POI you can have.

Edited by Riamus (see edit history)
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Thank you very much for your replies. Yes, I have Compo Pack for Teragon installed. I was just wandering why it seems that I didn´t get them, but maybe that map was generated without it. To be honest all those tweaks around the sealevel and to steep rivers have been to much for my english, as it isn´t my main language. But maybe I will try it without side roads, why not. But I have to say that the refined 10k map from Bobrpggamer is very beautiful.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Tim.Z said:

Thank you very much for your replies. Yes, I have Compo Pack for Teragon installed. I was just wandering why it seems that I didn´t get them, but maybe that map was generated without it. To be honest all those tweaks around the sealevel and to steep rivers have been to much for my english, as it isn´t my main language. But maybe I will try it without side roads, why not. But I have to say that the refined 10k map from Bobrpggamer is very beautiful.

If you haven't watched the tutorial video about using CP in Teragon, it will help.  The documentation linked earlier in this thread also explains how to use any custom prefabs, which includes CP.  If you are still having trouble after checking those, feel free to ask here or on discord.

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I´m sorry, I don´t know why they are empty. But can anybody tell me how to add Compo Pack Pois in an existing ini? I watched all the tutorials but can´t get a good map. If I import the .ini from Bobrpggamer the world is perfect, but there are no compo Pack Pois and I don´t know how I can add them, that would be awesome.

 

Thanks.

Tim.

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