Curious thoughts about the newer RMG on 20.6

[RStarphoenix]

I been tinkering with the RMG that was updated on 20.6 recently and I like the new options and the removal of the ambiguous "random".

However, there are a few things that are bothering me with the RMG I'm trying to figure out.

 

1.) The "world seed" bit - outside of changing the flavor name of the map, does this actually DO anything significant? And yes, I do realize that towns/poi etc do change places if you fidget with world seed and make a new map but it still seems ambiguous in of itself.

 

2.) Biome percentages - i've changed these and got the EXACT same biome placements, like it didn't register the % difference at all.

3.) Map sizes - I appreciate the return of 4096 (and the addition of the odd sizes) but the RMG seems to not like these. I've made maps where no trader exists for some reason,
or they literally all get clustered up in a 500-ish meter ring of each other. Setting Towns on few > default > many sometimes seems to slap them right next to each other.

4.) Single biome map - you can set a biome at 100%, all others at 0% and the RMG will STILL give you another biome for some reason. for instance, i wanted to do a 100% snow map but no matter what settings i used and what world seed i used, it gave me a tiny 50 meter circle of forest biome arbitrarily. this was on a 6x6, 8x8 and 10x10 (the supported pregen sizes).

5.) Burnt forest ?? - i only joined the forums relatively recently, but whatever happened to the burnt forest as a biome (it exists on Navazgane). kinda would be nice to make a 100% burnt forest biome map.

I tried my best to go through the forums to see if any answers for what i put in this message existed, but I couldn't find any.

[meganoth]

1) The seed is simply used to generate the starting number for the random number generator that is used to construct the world. There are two effects: Selecting a different string is guaranteed to generate a different world. And selecting the same string should always generate the same world.

 

2+4). In 2 you say biome percentages don't do anything, but in 4 you say they do, just not completely !?

 

 

[Maharin]

2 minutes ago, meganoth said:

2+4). In 2 you say biome percentages don't do anything, but in 4 you say they do, just not completely !?

 

They don't work as expected.  Like the OP said you can put 100% on one of them and zero on the rest yet the map generator will insist on having two biomes, usually a forest in the middle of the map.

 

Also, the quantity of rivers, lakes, and craters seems to be wildly random.  I've had maps with "few" lakes have more lakes than maps with "many".  An that's with the same map size.  I think what is going on is that stuff is getting clumped together instead of distributed more evenly throughout the map.  They probably need to aim for less random and more dispersed for these items.

[theFlu]

4 minutes ago, Maharin said:

usually a forest in the middle of the map

Does this patch of forest contain the default spawn spot? It might be intentional for delivering that easy start. Could still be bugged either way.

Edited September 20, 2022 by theFlu (see edit history)

[Maharin]

4 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Does this patch of forest contain the default spawn spot? It might be intentional for delivering that easy start. Could still be bugged either way.

 

Most of the random maps I have generated have an empty spawnpoints.xml file so the player always starts at (0,0).  So, indirectly, you start in the forest.  Definitely something wrong.

[RStarphoenix]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:27 PM, meganoth said:

1) The seed is simply used to generate the starting number for the random number generator that is used to construct the world. There are two effects: Selecting a different string is guaranteed to generate a different world. And selecting the same string should always generate the same world.

 

2+4). In 2 you say biome percentages don't do anything, but in 4 you say they do, just not completely !?

 

 

2.) When I set say... 40% Pine Forest, and 20% snow, desert, wasteland it'll generate the map.
If i change it to 46/18/18/18 literally nothing will change or shift around to compensate for the new percentages. Just a carbon copy of the first map.
BUT on the same vein... if i took the same 40/20/20/20 map and made it 34/22/22/22 it'll completely change the positioning of the biomes.
And the on top of it...if i could change the world seed slightly, do the 40/20/20/20 mix again, then the 34/22/22/22 would not shift or change but
the 46/18/18/18 would. Or going in either direction nothing moves, not even POI positions.

4.) The single biome map, pure 100% of any one, it just literally makes a small ring of pine forest in an arbitrary location. No spawn points inside that ring. It's just there like a weird pimple on the map that won't go away no matter how i shift POI, town, mountain, hill etc density.

And in the event of a 100% pine forest biome map...it'll throw a random wasteland or desert (never snow though....) in the same fashion.
 

On 9/20/2022 at 12:39 PM, theFlu said:

Does this patch of forest contain the default spawn spot? It might be intentional for delivering that easy start. Could still be bugged either way.

No, no spawn exists in that random ring of biome when i do a 100% single-biome map. It's just... like I mentioned my above reply, like a pimple on the map.

Edited September 26, 2022 by RStarphoenix (see edit history)

[RStarphoenix]

HERE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.... only the RMG gave me TWO forest biome hills O_O
https://imgur.com/a/PdR5zQX

[meganoth]

Ok. I can't imagine the 100-0-0-0 bug isn't already known in which case it has a good chance of being already fixed in A21.

 

The next one might have been missed, so you could make a bug report.

 

A different seed (no matter if you change it totally or only slightly) should always make a different map. I rather suspect you made a mistake when testing it as setting the seed is a very simple operation where it is difficult to create a randomly occuring bug (IMHO). But if you really can reproduce it, please make a bug report. And please make a separate bug report for each issue you want to report.

 

PS: I don't see any of those bugs on the public known issues list of A20 (though they could have been fixed and already removed). 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)