Random Ideas

[Sunlight_Swift]

These ideas may be good or dumb and riddled with flaws but I have seen some things in the game and have wondered about different features that would be neat to have or could help. So I'll start listing them here:

- Hollow point bullets. I notice that when tested there are no situations much where hp are better than ap bullets because the piercing  capability of ap just dominates. I also notice they do no damage to domolishers. Here's an idea to help with demolishers maybe. What if hp bullets do no damage to them AND can't activate the bomb? Then you could use them to kill the other mobs and leave them for easier target firing?
- Also what about making specific perks for each class to help with demolishers? Like say the pistol tree gets the ability for .44 hp bullets to actually deactivate the bomb on demolishers when shot when the tree is at level 10?(I could logic out how a less penetrative bullet could disarm a trigger device when expanding even if it seems a little far fetched) Maybe the science tree gains the ability to short circuit demolisher bombs with a emp grenade at level 10. Maybe the strength class gets the ability to one shot a demolisher with the hammer power attack to the head at level 10. Perhaps at 10 all enemies can have head smashed with hammer.
- Also with hollow point I do think a slight damage buff would help. They only do as much damage as reg bullet to armored and don't penetrate and even though they do more to non-armored, the penetration of ap through two non-armored targets still does more overall damage than hp so almost no situation is very useful for them over ap bullets.
- Another thing for demolishers would be maybe a blast resistant block that has the trade of low hit points. Maybe only like 300 hit points but explosions do almost no damage. So demolishers and other zombies wear it down at close range fast but explosions won't.

- With melee items I feel like late game their viability shrinks. Now I'm not really sure on this because I just go straight to guns but what if buffs and other perks could augment it? What if say while holding a knife at max points you can get a buff that increases attack speed and movement? What if with any melee you get an adrenaline effect when more zombies are close where you get a large damage reduction and higher damage output when there are three or more zombies close? What if with fists at max level you can always knock any zombie to the ground with a power hit? Melee buffs at high levels would seem fun to me. Also what if stun rod always disables any animal with paralysis with a hit? That would help with dogs and bears. Maybe a bat could numb zombies and stop their attacks for a few seconds at high level whenever you hit them and cancel oncoming attacks.

- Also maybe at the top of the strength tree you can just onlock another whole new row of inventory that is inaccessible entirely by any other means. Fortitude could give an extra 50 hp at the top or something.

- Traders. I think maybe between tiers of quests there could be a special mission that is challenging to unlock the next tier of quests. Also the items sold are gated behind these special quests. Say like a trader defense quest. Zombies come at the trader site and you defend it. If they do so much cumulative damage you fail and have to do a few more quests before you try again. Or any type of quest. I think gating sold items behind a challenge might help control a feeling of an overpowered advantage.

I don't expect any response and I expect that I am missing reasons a lot of these might be bad ideas too but I just think of different things while playing and figure I would share them.

[Ascaloth]

I like the idea of having something extra to deal with Demolishers as they made most horde base layouts very ineffective. Also turrets and blade traps are very dangerous to use due to them triggering the bomb. Instead of the hollow point bullet, maybe disabling the bomb ability to activate for some seconds when the zombie is shocked? This way some classic layouts can be good using electric posts, but it's not a guaranteed win against demolishers as the posts wear out.

Melee right now is OP if you invest on it and play it right. I'm doing a solo hardcore horde every night run focusing on brawling (Fortitude tree) and it's stupidly strong. I can face hordes head on, with only my knuckles and beer (for the +300% damage). Got a safe(ish) place nearby in case I receive a wound (rare), catch a breath or to drop some loot. Most zombies drop/explode/ragdoll with a single punch, it's insane. If I want some extra juice, I can use one of the new candies that provides +50% extra damage. Later on I want to have a supply of Moonshine to become the ultimate killing machine.

[Sunlight_Swift]

Wow yeah I haven't tried melee late game okay so that sounds pretty awesome. I'll have to try doing that next playthrough. Never messed with beer really.

[katarynna]

13 minutes ago, Ascaloth said:

Also turrets and blade traps are very dangerous to use due to them triggering the bomb.

Blade traps no longer trigger demolishers as of a19.

[Sunlight_Swift]

I've still not tried to use blade traps. I'm still in old school spike and gun mindset I need to modernize on these traps I guess.

[ElCabong]

We should be able to make a baseball bat right at the beginning.  Nothing is more therapeutic than clubbing zombies with a baseball bat after I get home from work.

[Sunlight_Swift]

7 hours ago, ElCabong said:

We should be able to make a baseball bat right at the beginning.  Nothing is more therapeutic than clubbing zombies with a baseball bat after I get home from work.

And if not maybe a nerfed variant, like 'old baseball bat' or 'worn baseball bat' or something.

[th3s0n1c]

On 9/12/2020 at 7:26 PM, Sunlight_Swift said:

These ideas may be good or dumb and riddled with flaws but I have seen some things in the game and have wondered about different features that would be neat to have or could help. So I'll start listing them here:

- Hollow point bullets. I notice that when tested there are no situations much where hp are better than ap bullets because the piercing  capability of ap just dominates. I also notice they do no damage to domolishers. Here's an idea to help with demolishers maybe. What if hp bullets do no damage to them AND can't activate the bomb? Then you could use them to kill the other mobs and leave them for easier target firing?
- Also what about making specific perks for each class to help with demolishers? Like say the pistol tree gets the ability for .44 hp bullets to actually deactivate the bomb on demolishers when shot when the tree is at level 10?(I could logic out how a less penetrative bullet could disarm a trigger device when expanding even if it seems a little far fetched) Maybe the science tree gains the ability to short circuit demolisher bombs with a emp grenade at level 10. Maybe the strength class gets the ability to one shot a demolisher with the hammer power attack to the head at level 10. Perhaps at 10 all enemies can have head smashed with hammer.
- Also with hollow point I do think a slight damage buff would help. They only do as much damage as reg bullet to armored and don't penetrate and even though they do more to non-armored, the penetration of ap through two non-armored targets still does more overall damage than hp so almost no situation is very useful for them over ap bullets.
- Another thing for demolishers would be maybe a blast resistant block that has the trade of low hit points. Maybe only like 300 hit points but explosions do almost no damage. So demolishers and other zombies wear it down at close range fast but explosions won't.

- With melee items I feel like late game their viability shrinks. Now I'm not really sure on this because I just go straight to guns but what if buffs and other perks could augment it? What if say while holding a knife at max points you can get a buff that increases attack speed and movement? What if with any melee you get an adrenaline effect when more zombies are close where you get a large damage reduction and higher damage output when there are three or more zombies close? What if with fists at max level you can always knock any zombie to the ground with a power hit? Melee buffs at high levels would seem fun to me. Also what if stun rod always disables any animal with paralysis with a hit? That would help with dogs and bears. Maybe a bat could numb zombies and stop their attacks for a few seconds at high level whenever you hit them and cancel oncoming attacks.

- Also maybe at the top of the strength tree you can just onlock another whole new row of inventory that is inaccessible entirely by any other means. Fortitude could give an extra 50 hp at the top or something.

- Traders. I think maybe between tiers of quests there could be a special mission that is challenging to unlock the next tier of quests. Also the items sold are gated behind these special quests. Say like a trader defense quest. Zombies come at the trader site and you defend it. If they do so much cumulative damage you fail and have to do a few more quests before you try again. Or any type of quest. I think gating sold items behind a challenge might help control a feeling of an overpowered advantage.

I don't expect any response and I expect that I am missing reasons a lot of these might be bad ideas too but I just think of different things while playing and figure I would share them.

Hollow points: I do agree they are undertuned. Specially since they are mostly found mid-late game, when you're already facing a lot of armored enemies. And changing from ap to hp is a pain when you're dealing with a horde of ever changing zombie spawns. Maybe if they were more common early, we would make most use of.

Demolishers: I disagree with even more buffs/effects to deal with them. I think they're fine - provided you get some steel into your defenses and aim for the head. And 100% 1 hit-ko'ing everything with a sledgehammer is too OP. GOnna kill demolishers and radiated wights with 1 hit? cmon.

Melee items: I feel like the point of having high level perks/weapons not instantly kill all enemies is because you shouldnt be an actual invincible destruction machine. They need to have a shot at getting to you, so even in late game, you can still get overrun by zombies and die.

Fortitude level: you can get Fortitude lvl 10 as early as lvl 13 in game (if you dont spend a single point anywhere else - which is unrealistic, but doable). Which means at lvl 13 you'd have 163 hit points. Maybe that's just me, but I find it a bit OP. (I'd settle for effect resistance, lower stamina usage/faster stamina regen or something... I dont mind the strength idea, tho)

Trader: I like it. Specially the trader siege idea. It would fit with the "opening trade route" thing. I just pity the poor @%$#s trying to defend the wooden-wall-based trader (forest one in navezgane) lol

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sunlight_Swift]

11 minutes ago, th3s0n1c said:

Demolishers: I disagree with even more buffs/effects to deal with them. I think they're fine - provided you get some steel into your defenses and aim for the head. And 100% 1 hit-ko'ing everything with a sledgehammer is too OP. GOnna kill demolishers and radiated wights with 1 hit? cmon.

 

I just did my second blood moon with demolishers yesterday. There were about 5 of them in total and I didn't set any off. However the problem is I've had to make a cheaty base design to compensate.

I see that there are definitely tools to defend if you build it all up and think very cleverly about it. I had just got all steel.

I think though thinking about how much investment steel takes and concrete that it doesn't scale well to the time invested. It also severely anchors your position to one place because you spent so much time making steel that you would rather start a new world then play into new areas and explore the one you are on fully. So there is a big trade in the 'challenge' they provide.

Really I see demolishers as not a challenge but a big chore. Most the enemies are like preparing for your parents coming over. You spend maybe 30 min or an hour. Demolisher is like having the president over every Sunday. You now have to chore into god tier every week and its exhausting. Or you can find a cheaty base design.

Also is it realistic that their explosion can insta destroy reinforced concrete? No it isn't at all. It should take at least five of those to blow that up. Ten at least to melt thick heavy reinforced steel deeply.

A person would be able to spread out and explore more of the world and not just restarting if they were somewhat balanced to reality and the other foes. As they are, they aren't a challenge, they are a chore or an incentive to base hackery. I think the best foes are the ones where four people could hunker down at any mid to large structure and hold out a blood moon given the right supplies. Should be at least possible to me. Otherwise this game gets the modded minecraft feel where you have a great world but you get stuck in an endless build cycle and never can venture far.

[th3s0n1c]

36 minutes ago, Sunlight_Swift said:

Demolisher is like having the president over every Sunday

ROFL I just loved this comparison.

 

Granted I havent played A19 yet, so I dont know if things changed for them, but on my experience on playing A18.4. Both on SP and MP, I've dealt with them just fine.

Both worlds I was about lvl 60-70.

On my SP world, I had a suspended base made out of the ranger's cabins. Broke all the walls around, left some pillars, broke all the floor and replaced for iron spikes. Replaced the entire upper floor with iron bars, placed my junk turret in the middle and spend the horde nights shooting down arrows and using SMG (ap ammo) on demolishers. I never even went past reinforced concrete on the structures (pillars and floor). They blow up some blocks every now and then.. and most of my spikes, but it was all very safe and clean.

On my current MP world we've made a ramp leading to a bridge blocked by one block-high > empty space for melee attacks > more blocks up top (All these ramp/bridge made from steel) And they explode from time to time, but not enough to take the bridge with them. Granted we have 3 players shooting + 2 junk turrets + 3 auto turrets from the back and sides. One player died once, because of lag. And the only thing we actually lose EVERY horde night, is 3 blades traps along the entrance. Other than that, everything always runs smoothly.. since Im the tech guy (with the 5 turrets), I spend the hordenight mostly repairing the blocks, reloading and eventually throwing molotovs - while my 3 friends just gun them down. All I spend for the horde nights is like.. 100 forged steel worth of blade traps + repairs. And maybe 100 concrete of block repairs that took collateral damage from their explosions but never really got destroyed.

I dont think these designs were cheaty/cheesy, but I guess it would be open for interpretation.

[Mastermind]

Thing is... without demolisher, blood moon are crazy easy right now (on default setting, SP, that is...). It's so easy to "game the AI". Since every single zombie will follow the "path of least resistance" toward you, it's very easy to design a base where zombies will go to you in a single lane file where you can just wait and sledgehammer them 1 by 1 without any real risk. The very few block they will damage, you can repair faster than they can damage.

 

In my current SP, the only reason I fired any bullets before punishers showed up was when I ran out of stamina (and with maxed sexual tyrannosaurus and proper hydration is pretty rare), or for some reason zombies started piling up. I think I used 50-100 shotgun shell per bloodmoon on average up to game stage 150. The one blood moon I spent the most ammo on was when vultures showed up and I had to get out of my bunker to take them out. But after that one, I put a blade trap on the top of my bunker and the issue was gone.